White’s products can be bought online via their site.

I didn’t realize this until now.

[www.whiteselectronics.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2019 03:12AM by tnsharpshooter.

Been that way for a while now, after they fired all there distributors.

yeah! why did they do that?..they seem to be going 'backward" instead of "forward!"

(h.h.!)
j.t.

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah! why did they do that?..they seem to be going
> 'backward" instead of "forward!"
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.


Back to the good old days when a dealer could buy direct from the manufacturer and get a hefty discount-- the more they buy. More profit for the dealer and a better discounted to the dealers customer.?
I am sure dealers from way back when remember the benefits of buying direct, then Kellyco muscled in as well as Panna's Electronics kind of like what Walmart did to small family operations when they would open up a new Walmart in a given town.................
Maybe White's is on the right path to the top if they are giving the dealer a chance to actually make a living selling detectors again. Which would be attractive to the dealers to entice more sales. They just need to have some killer products without design issues.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yeah! why did they do that?..they seem to be goi
> ng
> > 'backward" instead of "forward!"
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
>
>
> Back to the good old days when a dealer could buy
> direct from the manufacturer and get a hefty disco
> unt-- the more they buy. More profit for the deale
> r and a better discounted to the dealers customer.
> ?
> I am sure dealers from way back when remember the
> benefits of buying direct, then Kellyco muscled in
> as well as Panna's Electronics kind of like what W
> almart did to small family operations when they wo
> uld open up a new Walmart in a given town.........
> ........
> Maybe White's is on the right path to the top if
> they are giving the dealer a chance to actually ma
> ke a living selling detectors again. Which would b
> e attractive to the dealers to entice more sales.
> They just need to have some killer products withou
> t design issues.


No, white's actually RAISED prices recently. First sign of the end...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2019 12:27PM by detectingMO.

Rob in (ca) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been that way for a while now, after they fired al
> l there distributors.


I believe white's is still using distributors. First Texas got rid of all distributors.

detectingMO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No, white's actually RAISED prices resently. Firs
> t sign of the end...

OHH well, another company will bite the dust, guess some employees saw the writing on the wall and left for greener pastures............

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

They canned Jimmy Sierra, he was the west coast distributor, also Ron Shore is gone to , don't know about the others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2019 02:57PM by Rob in (ca).

I used and sold Whites since the early 80's. I just let my dealership fizzle out since the MXsport fell short. I personally went through 3 of them that never worked right. I was even told by Tom that it's possible I didn't know how to run a machine! But the real issue years ago was the sweetheart deal Kellyco made with Whites. They tied all the small dealer's hands telling us we could not sell on the internet. I even had Steve from Whites call me on the phone to tell me to take down an ebay listing for a used M6!... I did not....This while letting Kellyco sell directly to my neighbors! This type of strong arming did not set good with small dealers. I even brought this up in a dealer meeting on Columbia, MO when our distributor came to train us on the V3i. I was told that Kellyco paid more than we did for the right to sell online. I said then why don't we all pay a little more for that right? Then it was laughed off with this gig from him "when you start selling millions of dollars of detectors then we can talk"!! No other dealer there said a word until after the meeting. Some dealers told me I was right and was glad I spoke up. But where were these same dealers in the meeting?!!! I only kept the dealership because of the name and the hope that one day they would come out with some new advancements. All they ended up doing was redesigning decals for the next 10 years.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yeah! why did they do that?..they seem to be goi
> ng
> > 'backward" instead of "forward!"
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
>
>
> Back to the good old days when a dealer could buy
> direct from the manufacturer and get a hefty disco
> unt-- the more they buy. More profit for the deale
> r and a better discounted to the dealers customer.
> ?
> I am sure dealers from way back when remember the
> benefits of buying direct, then Kellyco muscled in
> as well as Panna's Electronics kind of like what W
> almart did to small family operations when they wo
> uld open up a new Walmart in a given town.........
> ........
> Maybe White's is on the right path to the top if
> they are giving the dealer a chance to actually ma
> ke a living selling detectors again. Which would b
> e attractive to the dealers to entice more sales.
> They just need to have some killer products withou
> t design issues.

Last place I would expect to come up with killer products

They kicked their loyal buyers in the guts when they offered free honest feedback on the MXS which was
originally rubbished and ignored by company reps_Hardly the future of metal detecting if they are not prepared
to listen to their customers

Last I had heard, the companies that value customer feedback are striving ahead

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Whites lost my confidence in them when they got rid of Jimmy Sierra.

Sven1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yeah! why did they do that?..they seem to be goi
> ng
> > 'backward" instead of "forward!"
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
>
>
> Back to the good old days when a dealer could buy
> direct from the manufacturer and get a hefty disco
> unt-- the more they buy. More profit for the deale
> r and a better discounted to the dealers customer.
> ?
> I am sure dealers from way back when remember the
> benefits of buying direct, then Kellyco muscled in
> as well as Panna's Electronics kind of like what W
> almart did to small family operations when they wo
> uld open up a new Walmart in a given town.........
> ........
> Maybe White's is on the right path to the top if
> they are giving the dealer a chance to actually ma
> ke a living selling detectors again. Which would b
> e attractive to the dealers to entice more sales.
> They just need to have some killer products withou
> t design issues.


yup! i remember those days when whitey,i believe,gave 40%
discount to dealers if they bought in "bulk" i don't remember the exact number,but think it was 10..40% was a tremendous incentive both to dealers,and customers.the 'difference" was "back then" detectors were selling "well",and whitey could afford to do that..my brother delt "puke color" "garrett" out of his house in the 70's,and he mentioned he could get 40 cents on the dollar too with a bulk purchase.a lot of "morons" have arrived,and "insist" on digging' pennies out of a manicured park with a "sampson".any wonder why,the hobby is going extinct.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

yup! i remember those days when whitey,i believe,gave 40%
discount to dealers if they bought in "bulk" i don't remember the exact number,but think it was 10..40% was a tremendous incentive both to dealers,and customers.the 'difference" was "back then" detectors were selling "well",and whitey could afford to do that..my brother delt "puke color" "garrett" out of his house in the 70's,and he mentioned he could get 40 cents on the dollar too with a bulk purchase.a lot of "morons" have arrived,and "insist" on digging' pennies out of a manicured park with a "sampson".any wonder why,the hobby is going extinct.

(h.h.!)
j.t.
We also were supposed to sell at full retail as well. I also agree with the use of long handled shovels shutting down sites. I too can cut a sweet plug with one but I chose not to use it unless it's a field. The largest digger I'll use in a park or lawn in the Predator 31 which isn't no toy.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2019 09:17PM by khouse.

right! so can i,but i will NOT do it! it is wrong,and creates the wrong impression in a public park,or other public area. they belong in fields,and open woods.what you are dealing with is "perception".the public's opinions ''count" and dropping' a dime
gets the type of attention we don't need!..im just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Quote
jmaryt
yup! i remember those days when whitey, i believe, gave 40% discount to dealers if they bought in "bulk" i don't remember the exact number, but think it was 10..40% was a tremendous incentive both to dealers, and customers.

I started as a Dealer w/Garrett in '77 and their discount back then was 25%. That increased and about 1981 to '83 most Dealers were getting 30% from most manufacturers to about 35%. It was Tesoro, back in 1987, who moved up to the bigger Dealer Discount of 40%. Buy one at 35% off. Buy 2 or more and you got 38% off, and if you bought 6 or more you got 40% off the MSRP. At the same time, since we were at the busy early stages of 'mail order' discounting, they also restricted their dealers to allow a discount of no more than 20%, thus allowing a Dealer to buy at 40% off, sell at 20%off and end up with a 20% gross profit margin.

I was, at the end of being in any business, a White's master Dealer at 35% off, and we were told that Kellyco only got 30% off but were allowed to market via the Internet or that big mailed-out catalog they used to do, but the average Dealers, as I believe Kenny mentioned were very restricted on how we could market and what we could sell for.

Quote
jmaryt
the 'difference" was "back then" detectors were selling "well", and whitey could afford to do that..my brother delt "puke color" "garrett" out of his house in the 70's, and he mentioned he could get 40 cents on the dollar too with a bulk purchase. a lot of "morons" have arrived, and "insist" on digging' pennies out of a manicured park with a "sampson". any wonder why,the hobby is going extinct.

"Back then" detectors didn't retail for very much, dealers usually sold at retail or maybe gave a 5% discount, and business was thriving because the metal detecting hobby and interest was growing. Detector prices started to just skyward with the Teknetics Coin Computer release in '83, other manufacturers followed and soon a lot of hobbyists couldn't afford to over-hyped and too expensive models.

Discounting started growing then, increased with the Internet, and as the hobby peaked, about '83 to '88 or so, we started to see a decrease in interest, partly due to sky-high prices. As time slipped by the discounters ran the local retail dealers out of business. Dealer shops started dwindling and metal detecting clubs have been on the decline. Let's not forget that a lot of folks who started in '65 to '85 are now 30+ to 50+ years older and have passed on or given up the hobby, and with the decline in hobbyists and increase we see in discounting to bring about a decline in dealers, we have also seen some manufacturers, like White's do things that didn't benefit their existing Dealers.

Such as around fall to Christmas back in 2012 or 2013 when you got a card with a new detector purchase for a $150 value to get a search coil directly from White's. Pore old Dealers, like me, who had a butt-load of the popular 5.3 Eclipse search coils on-hand in their inventory, couldn't sell them because White's was giving them away with a free coupon. I'd sell a detector, the buyer came out ahead since they got a free search coil, and other dealers and I were stuck with inventory we had invested in and there was no compensations for us.

More obvious trends have suggested things aren't going all that well with the business in Sweet Home. Fewer dealers around. MSRP on many models, like the MXT Pro, are still at their high $899.95 mark and should have been dropped a long time ago to a much more competitive level. How can that compete with a $549 Tek. T2+, or for the same amount a Nokta-Makro Anfibio Multi waterproof unit with 3 selectable frequencies, or a Multi-Kruzer for $749 that's also waterproof with 3 selectable frequencies? Or a land-based Nokta Impact for $699, also providing 3 frequencies. And now they are trying to push their lower-end Treasure Pro, with a big ol' 10" DD coil and with a slower response and recovery rate at $499.95 against a Fisher F44 for $399 MSRP, or a Makro Racer 2 at $499, and both of those models are far superior in features and performance afield.

Their website is terrible and for years now their metal detectors are stuck on their in a weird random order and not in a logical MSRP pricing order. Their product repair policy took a big change a couple of years ago, a lot of folks are no longer there, and they are falling farter and farther behind in an effort to catch up with the industry detector leaders who seem to be FTP here in the USA, and the devices from the manufacturers called Minelab, XP and Nokta-Makro Detection Technologies. The clock is ticking and I don't hear much stirring about over that way. It's maybe only a matter of time, but how much is the big question. We can all hope detector companies can find a way to generate more interest in this great sport and be hard at work to listen to consumers and bring us what we want and need, but .....

Monte

When I first got into this activity back at the very end of 2003 (my first detector was a Bounty Hunter Tracker IV) and started getting addicted to treasure hunting I started salivating over all the mags and the Catalogs. Whites held the prize, the pinnacle of the day, the mighty DFX, and it took me a couple of years to get there but I finally bought and sold my way up until I had a new one. Bought it from some famous relic hunter who got it for something or other and sold it to me for $800 bucks. Probably owned 5 of them since then as they held their value and was good for ready cash for scratching the buy and try itch. Then came the V3/V3i. Man I love that detector. Not the same as my F75LTD DST love, but just love for the instrument and its potential. The V3 replaced the DFX as the pinnacle of metal detectors, in my book anyway.

My local Whites dealer wouldn't deal so my Whites business went to my online friends like Richard from Backwoods or Larry at NWI for my Whites products.

I'm still sticking my thumb in my local dealer's eye as I'll be getting my new Whites GM24K from Richard here in a few weeks..

HH
Mike

When you see any company doing drastic negative cuts, it's the end of them.

"It's only when we lost everything, that we are free to do anything"

To be honest, I don't think Whites have ever recovered from their shambolic release of their MXS -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

they attempted to compete with garrett by offering the mx-5,but they "screwed up" because it wasn't waterproof,and the at-pro
is! my brother insists that both whitey,and garrett offered 40% discounts to dealers.their highest level discount.you had to buy a lot of instruments to qualify though..the mx-5 is a good detector,and should have competed favorably with the at-pro,but it just did not,and was dropped from the line.unbelievably,they bring back the m-6 which was in the line up since 2006,and should have never been dumped in the first place.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

The detector business made their first huge change when they came to terms with various consumer protection laws about enforcing retail pricing. the concept of Minimum advertised Price (MAP) took off in a lot of industries. A deale r can sell for any price they want, but they cannot publicly advertise a price below MAP. The effect probably was that their 40% gross margin, got redfuced between the difference between suggested retail and MAP.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Quote
jmaryt
they attempted to compete with garrett by offering the mx-5,but they "screwed up" because it wasn't waterproof,and the at-pro is!

The MX-5 wasn't an attempt to compete with the waterproof AT Pro. The MX-5 was, and is, a very decent performing model, and a bit hotter than the M-6. I used to keep it and another brand/model with me for Coin Hunting as I liked them more than White's MXT Pro which I also had and used at the time. The MX-5 out-performed the AT's just about anytime I did some side-by-side evaluations. The problems with the MX-5 was they rushed it to market w/o having a 'Lock-Trac' feature.

But they also rushed the Vision to market before being field tested and getting a LOT of bugs worked out. It morphed into the V3 and eventually the V3i. The MX-Sport was another rush-to-market before it was ready. All signs of struggles when you're pressured and feel like you're slipping further behind .... and they were. The market shows where the trends are, what features are desired or in demand, and what adjustments are needed to compete. One such things to do is reduce the retail price of a model/models that have been around for maybe a little too long and lack quite a few of the strong selling points of the competition.

Examples? Can you manually Ground Balance the MXT or MXT Pro or M6 or MX-5 or even the current MX-Sport or MX-7? Nope. Only the last two have a Reject Volume feature which ios kind of like but not really functional like the Iron Audio Volume found on low-end to mid-priced models like the Teknetics Euro-Tek Pro, Fisher F19 and F44 or the Makro Racer 2 or the Nokta FORS Relic or Impact, or the current Nokta-Makro Kruzer series or Anfibio Multi ... all of which retail for less than the MXT All-Pro. And there are more things Whites models are lacking.

Quote
jmaryt
my brother insists that both whitey,and garret t offered 40% discounts to dealers.their highest level discount.you had to buy a lot of instruments to qualify though

I sat right there at the factory to place my order and they could have shared that big discount info with me because I started out as a Master Dealer and had the $$$$ at the time to have placed an order to get a 40% discount.

Quote
jmaryt
the mx-5 is a good detector,and should have competed favorably with the at-pro,but it just did not,and was dropped from the line.unbelievably,they bring back the m-6 which was in the line up since 2006,and should have never been dumped in the first place.

I think they dropped it, brought it back and dropped it again, briefly, then brought it back again. But I thought I saw a lower price on the M6 about a year ago compared to what I saw on their website yesterday. ???

Oh well, I really wonder what's going on over there and who could possibly be the design engineer for anything that might come out and set some higher marks for them. Matter of fact ... who IS or ARE the engineers at White's these days? Anyone with any real background and smarts in electronic design?

Monte

Monte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
jmaryt
they attempted to
> compete with garrett by offering the mx-5,but they
> "screwed up" because it wasn't waterproof,and the
> at-pro is!

> The MX-5 wasn't an attempt to compete with the wat
> erproof AT Pro. The MX-5 was, and is, a very dece
> nt performing model, and a bit hotter than the M-6
> . I used to keep it and another brand/model with
> me for Coin Hunting as I liked them more than Whit
> e's MXT Pro which I also had and used at the time.
> The MX-5 out-performed the AT's just about anytime
> I did some side-by-side evaluations. The problems
> with the MX-5 was they rushed it to market w/o hav
> ing a 'Lock-Trac' feature.
>
> But they also rushed the Vision to market before b
> eing field tested and getting a LOT of bugs worked
> out. It morphed into the V3 and eventually the V3
> i. The MX-Sport was another rush-to-market before
> it was ready. All signs of struggles when you're
> pressured and feel like you're slipping further be
> hind .... and they were. The market shows where t
> he trends are, what features are desired or in dem
> and, and what adjustments are needed to compete.
> One such things to do is reduce the retail price o
> f a model/models that have been around for maybe a
> little too long and lack quite a few of the strong
> selling points of the competition.
>
> Examples? Can you manually Ground Balance the MXT
> or MXT Pro or M6 or MX-5 or even the current MX-Sp
> ort or MX-7? Nope. Only the last two have a Reje
> ct Volume feature which ios kind of like but not r
> eally functional like the Iron Audio Volume found
> on low-end to mid-priced models like the Teknetic
> s Euro-Tek Pro, Fisher F19 and F44 or the Makro Ra
> cer 2 or the Nokta FORS Relic or Impact, or the cu
> rrent Nokta-Makro Kruzer series or Anfibio Multi .
> .. all of which retail for less than the MXT All-P
> ro. And there are more things Whites models are l
> acking.
>
>
>

Quote
jmaryt
my brother insists
> that both whitey,and garret t offered 40% discount
> s to dealers.their highest level discount.you had
> to buy a lot of instruments to qualify though[
> /color]

I sat right there at the factory to
> place my order and they could have shared that big
> discount info with me because I started out as a M
> aster Dealer and had the $$$$ at the time to have
> placed an order to get a 40% discount.
>
>
>

Quote
jmaryt
the mx-5 is a good
> detector,and should have competed favorably with t
> he at-pro,but it just did not,and was dropped from
> the line.unbelievably,they bring back the m-6 whic
> h was in the line up since 2006,and should have ne
> ver been dumped in the first place.[/q
> uote]I think they dropped it, brought it back and
> dropped it again, briefly, then brought it back ag
> ain. But I thought I saw a lower price on the M6
> about a year ago compared to what I saw on their w
> ebsite yesterday. ???
>
> Oh well, I really wonder what's going on over ther
> e and who could possibly be the design engineer fo
> r anything that might come out and set some higher
> marks for them. Matter of fact ... who IS or ARE
> the engineers at White's these days? Anyone with
> any real background and smarts in electronic desig
> n?
>
> Monte

my "bro" sold detectors at 40% off.maybe he was just trying to be "nice" to people,or maybe he was just one "shrewd" business man,because he moved a 'ton" of equipment for real.
i stand corrected on the mx-5.monte is correct.whitey,for some god forsaken reason,never installed a "lock-trac"toggle,and it made a difference in the market place. maybe they should give "vince gifford" a little ring dingy,or even "rusty henry" i'm sure these two guys have untapped "engineering talent!".it's a little like the lottery!..ya can't win if ya don't play! ..i'm just sayin'


(h.h.!)
j.t.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2019 01:28AM by jmaryt.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you see any company doing drastic negative cuts, it's the end of them.

What about FTP, the F75 was a $1299 "flagship" detector for years that can now be had brand new for $549 with a free accessory package.

yeah! must have ''always" been one hell of a "mark up" in those
"flag ship" units all those years.they were introduced in 2006.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

at one time,believe it ,or not,you could "deal" with a whites distributor.they would undermine the dealers they were supplying.i guess a "sale is a sale"!..i'm just saying'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When you see any company doing drastic negative
> cuts, it's the end of them.
>
> What about FTP, the F75 was a $1299 "flagship" det
> ector for years that can now be had brand new for
> $549 with a free accessory package.


Well that's true Brian and I sure don't think this the end of FTP.

Back in 1975-79 my dealer friend would give me great discounts, so I would sell detectors for him on the side. Helped increase his quantity discount and provided me with new detectors to play with.
Got him interested in bringing in the Dtex CK and SK units.......and the C&G (Tesoro) Lynx, Bobcat mini detectors. When he got the first Teknetics Mark 1, they were a tough sell but, he was killing the silver coins with it and
it was out of my budget range. Didn't matter, got out of land detector for water detecting with scuba gear, now that was a new frontier with grand results...............Anyways, there was some great discounts to be had if you were a dealer or knew a dealer.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

It’s a new world for US hobby detectors. Too many old f**ts saying or crippled - to few young enthusiasts - and many of them harder up than us old ones - Mass market merchandisers demanding product at ever lower prices - Minelab laying a huge Babyruth in the punch bowl with the Equinox price/performance ratio. All of this has changed the picture entirely.

FT didn’t hang around waiting to end up with a warehouse full of overpriced product. Their stuff started getting prices cut more than a year ago - they know the market.

Look what ML did - the GPZ killed the market for the GPX/SCD and so the prices were slashed.

Dealers will become order takers - direct ship from factory to customer - it’s coming. Or so I suppose. The dealers who are busy online will do fine, placing orders, giving advice, going to bat for customers with the factory. Brick and mortar dealers - going away.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

This seems to have become a Whites lament thread ...

Engineer who definitely would know said MX5 was the first product based on moving MXT code to a modern processor and tool set, MXSport and MX7 are further developments on that platform. I expect Whites has the engineering capability to continue 'development' based on that platform, although that would be the 'incrementalism' that is so disliked on this site.

He also said that MXT code was 2% of the size of the V3 code. Considering the complexity and old tool set used on the V3, it appears that further development on that platform is a non-starter.

On the lower price end, I guess the TreasureMaster/TreasurePro are a 'platform' recently developed, they introduced new mechanicals, interfaces, low power usage ... but the consensus seems to be these machines doesn't compare well to its price peers.

There have also been further incremental developments based on some of their other niche platforms (TDI, Goldmaster 24K)

They have also updated the mechanical design, displays, etc - hopefully to one that offers user benefits and is less expensive to produce.

So the question is do they have the engineering capability to develop an entirely new platform better than what they currently offer?

My gripe with White's is they refused to make a couple of KNOWN tweaks to the TDI Pro and in the process let an excellent PI detector,which was priced right, go down the drain,but they did give us the "Sport". LOL