How widely were gold coins dispersed in the US

I ask this question because I know quite a few old Th'ers where I'm at and have never heard of anyone finding a gold coin here in Illinois. I know it's possible they would rather keep that info under their hat, but is it that they were not widely used in the midwest? They all seem to be found on both coasts. I hope this isn't a stupid question. Thanks for reading.
HH
John

Its not a stupid question at all.

When you look at the mintage numbers for gold coins, you will see there were millions of them produced, of all types. Yet, when compared to silver and copper coins, this number pales into near insignificance. Silver has been the traditional metal of common coin (which says nothing good about today's modern coin, I suppose...)

The history of coin remains constant, with the smaller denominations being established as general circulation specie. Higher value coins, like gold pieces, generally remained in reserve. The largest of these are usually used mostly among banks and institutions, even when minted as circulation coins.

We must always recognize the importance of precious metal coin to our predecessors. In the modern age of near worthless government coin-tokens, we forget that most people didnt carry around pockets full of coin in the old days. When they did have some, they were often in a small purse and pockets were deep and well sewn. Money had value then and people held on to it, tightly. Its a fair bet that many people rarely, if ever, had many gold coins in their possession.

These were special pieces, and were held in high esteem. Consider today's Presidential "gold" dollars, as an example. While not made of gold, as we know... when was the last time you saw one being used in common circulation? Or a half dollar, for that matter?

People see them as "special," and so when they get one - they hoard it. This has been so for a very long time. The quarter dollar has been the traditional workhorse of the US coinage system, with most larger denomination coins held in reserve. Perhaps this goes some way towards explaining why so few gold coins are found by detectorists.

As for geographical significance in the disbursement of gold coin, one can make the following suggestion.

The center of the United States, what we call the "midwest" today, has always been sparsely populated. For a very long time, it was wild frontier. Only in the major transport and agricultural centers have there been significant human populations. Even today, with relatively cheap energy and the availability of transportation - the middle of the country remains fairly devoid of inhabitants.

The mints used to distribute coin where it was most needed, and/or less often where it could be manufactured. With few people and no minting centers, the middle of the country would likely see fewer of the already scarce gold coins in distribution.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 01:06PM by dahut.

Nice post dahut. Real interesting. I've always wanted to find a gold coin. The $1 coin is so tiny not much bigger than the top of a pencil eraser. Anyone here ever found one besides Tom?

I took me 32 years to find my first one. Its dated 1857. It was the very first target I dug the day I tried my (then) new F70 for the very first time. I tell you what, it gives you a huge boost in confidence when the first coin your machine finds is a tiny, $1 US coin! I tried to keep detecting but my brain was mush. I couldnt concentrate, nor continue to hunt. Its a "high" I wont soon forget.

I live in Wisconsin, and only know of about 10 other gold coins found by hunters in this area.

Scully

Thanks that was very informative. I don't live far from Chicago or Milwaukee for that fact so I won't give up hope of finding one. There has to be one out there some where.Silver pretty good though.
HH
John

I REMEMBER THE STORY ABOUT THE GOLD COIN.
IT WAS A GREAT DAY.

I have expended a large part of my life performing research on gold coins. I could write a book on this subject. I have reported this in some previous threads............but, in a nutshell;

Gold coins were heavily circulated in the 1840's, 1850's and through April, 1862.

A very important factor is the fact that our military during all of the said years.....paid the soldiers in "Specie" payment. That being; silver and gold coin. This is the definition of 'specie'. In general, enlisted were paid in silver....and officers were paid in gold. Yes, the enlisted would up-trade silver (when enough were saved) for gold coins.

In the early 1850's.......gold coins were in such plentiful quantities.....so much so......that the value of gold (somewhat) dropped......thanks to California 1848 - 1850's gold rush. This caused silver coins to become slightly more valuable/rare; subsequently leading to the complete disappearance of silver coins from circulation. (( The weight of silver coins were reduced-----as indicated by arrows beside the date...to signify the weight-reduction ))..... so as to stop the hoarding/melting of silver coinage.

Gold coin (and specie payment) resumed around the Fall of 1870.......and would carry through the mid-1880's.

Gold coins began to slow down circulation in the late 1880's.

Another slow down of circulation took place in 1895.

Then, yet, another very serious slow down of circulation in late-1916...early-1917.

Mintage ceased in 1933..... and gold coins were made illegal to hold for all Americans in 1934.....enacted by Franklin D. Roosevelt. ((( Nixon.....in 1974.....reversed this decision ))).

You will see HUGE volumes of gold coins "MINTED".......BUT, BUT......what REALLY matters.......is when were-they/did-they "CIRCULATE"! This is the critical concern for us detectorists. I could nearly care less about 'volume minted'.....as....it is in the 'circulated' status that is important to us. CRITICAL!

Remember, not long ago.........there was no such thing as FDIC or FSLIC. And when a yesteryear bank was robbed....YOU LOST YOUR MONEY!
Imagine needing to go to the bank to make a deposit. The bank is only 4 miles away. BUT.....the year is 1905. Most probably......you don't own a car. It would be a half-day experience to travel to the bank to make a deposit.....in a building without much security (or insurance). This is not a very good strategic/financial move. SOOOOOOOooooo.........what do you do? Ball-Mason jars were VERY common. Two per household. (Another large study of mine ).

Mid-West had fewer people.....but silver and gold coin were just as trusted/popular/circulated.

You see a picture starting to 'paint'???

Now..............would you trust paper money? Paper money that said "First Bank of Richmond". "First Bank of Allentown". """"Confederate States of America"""". Etc......... You see a picture yet?

How about 1929. It's one thing to lock the doors on a bank.....disallowing you to get your own money out of the bank. BUT....it's ANOTHER thing to NOT even be allowed to access your safe-deposit-box!!!!!

I have witnessed (so far in my lifetime).....

*Banks collapse
*Economies collapse
*Goverments collapse
*Monetary systems collapse
*etc..............


I have NEVER witnessed GOLD or SILVER collapse!!!!!!!!! And it's a universal language.

Federal Reserve established in 1913 by the powerful-7 on an island.
"FEDERAL" is to imply 'Government' (or at least quasi-government).
"RESERVE" is to imply 'Ft. Knox'.

Do a little research on this. You may learn that they are private bank notes......not backed by silver/gold. No more silver certificates; gold certificates.
Also .... find out about 'fiat currency'.


Tom

Great post Tom, thanks.
If history tells us one thing its that all economic systems backed by "fiat-currency" have all failed. Make way for the "Amero"!
Aaron

On average last 17 years. The commodities bull that started in 2000, still has 7 years to go, if the past is an indication of the future. Hang on and accumulate that gold and silver, for a few more years. The silver coins I bought 8 years ago are up 400%, and Im expecting that percentage to go much higher, especially with silver in rather tight supply. HH

i have!..found one in a little league field back in the 80's!..it was approximately
2 inches deep!..it was found in the infield around second base,and it was in a bezel
made of 14k gold too!

(h.h!)
j.t.

Thanks for that that great post Tom. So the best chance to find a gold coin would probably be an old homesite judging by your post. It makes sense because I can't imagine to many people carring them around in their pocket. Most likely they were purposely stashed away for safe keeping. I'll let you know when I find one
HH
John

Great post.

Awesome post!!!

With all this said, where is the most likely place to find a gold coin?


NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have expended a large part of my life performing
> research on gold coins. I could write a book on
> this subject. I have reported this in some
> previous threads............but, in a nutshell;
>
> Gold coins were heavily circulated in the 1840's,
> 1850's and through April, 1862.
>
> A very important factor is the fact that our
> military during all of the said years.....paid the
> soldiers in "Specie" payment. That being; silver
> and gold coin. This is the definition of 'specie'.
> In general, enlisted were paid in silver....and
> officers were paid in gold. Yes, the enlisted
> would up-trade silver (when enough were saved) for
> gold coins.
>
> In the early 1850's.......gold coins were in such
> plentiful quantities.....so much so......that the
> value of gold (somewhat) dropped......thanks to
> California 1848 - 1850's gold rush. This caused
> silver coins to become slightly more
> valuable/rare; subsequently leading to the
> complete disappearance of silver coins from
> circulation. (( The weight of silver coins were
> reduced-----as indicated by arrows beside the
> date...to signify the weight-reduction ))..... so
> as to stop the hoarding/melting of silver
> coinage.
>
> Gold coin (and specie payment) resumed around the
> Fall of 1870.......and would carry through the
> mid-1880's.
>
> Gold coins began to slow down circulation in the
> late 1880's.
>
> Another slow down of circulation took place in
> 1895.
>
> Then, yet, another very serious slow down of
> circulation in late-1916...early-1917.
>
> Mintage ceased in 1933..... and gold coins were
> made illegal to hold for all Americans in
> 1934.....enacted by Franklin D. Roosevelt. (((
> Nixon.....in 1974.....reversed this decision ))).
>
> You will see HUGE volumes of gold coins
> "MINTED".......BUT, BUT......what REALLY
> matters.......is when were-they/did-they
> "CIRCULATE"! This is the critical concern for us
> detectorists. I could nearly care less about
> 'volume minted'.....as....it is in the
> 'circulated' status that is important to us.
> CRITICAL!
>
> Remember, not long ago.........there was no such
> thing as FDIC or FSLIC. And when a yesteryear bank
> was robbed....YOU LOST YOUR MONEY!
> Imagine needing to go to the bank to make a
> deposit. The bank is only 4 miles away.
> BUT.....the year is 1905. Most probably......you
> don't own a car. It would be a half-day experience
> to travel to the bank to make a deposit.....in a
> building without much security (or insurance).
> This is not a very good strategic/financial move.
> SOOOOOOOooooo.........what do you do? Ball-Mason
> jars were VERY common. Two per household.
> (Another large study of mine ).
>
> Mid-West had fewer people.....but silver and gold
> coin were just as trusted/popular/circulated.
>
> You see a picture starting to 'paint'???
>
> Now..............would you trust paper money?
> Paper money that said "First Bank of Richmond".
> "First Bank of Allentown". """"Confederate States
> of America"""". Etc......... You see a picture
> yet?
>
> How about 1929. It's one thing to lock the doors
> on a bank.....disallowing you to get your own
> money out of the bank. BUT....it's ANOTHER thing
> to NOT even be allowed to access your
> safe-deposit-box!!!!!
>
> I have witnessed (so far in my lifetime).....
>
> *Banks collapse
> *Economies collapse
> *Goverments collapse
> *Monetary systems collapse
> *etc..............
>
>
> I have NEVER witnessed GOLD or SILVER
> collapse!!!!!!!!! And it's a universal language.
>
> Federal Reserve established in 1913 by the
> powerful-7 on an island.
> "FEDERAL" is to imply 'Government' (or at least
> quasi-government).
> "RESERVE" is to imply 'Ft. Knox'.
>
> Do a little research on this. You may learn that
> they are private bank notes......not backed by
> silver/gold. No more silver certificates; gold
> certificates.
> Also .... find out about 'fiat currency'.
>
>
> Tom

You never know where you're going to find a gold coin. Though it wasn't an American coin, I found a gold coin on the beach, of all places, in Jan 2008. It was a 1892 British Sovereign, but it could have just as easily been an American gold coin since it was made into jewelry. There was a small weld mark on the edge where it had broken from a necklace or charm bracelet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 10:47PM by Gary in Daytona.

It is extremely difficult to find a gold coin. In my experience most of the places that are potential sites, are littered with so much iron and other trash, it makes for very difficult detecting.

One of the better ideas may be utilizing a large magnet like Tom uses, to clear some of the iron because otherwise it's brutal. I have been looking for a 766 lb pull magnet, but so far have had no luck finding one. Tom, could you maybe share the name of the place where you purchased yours. Thanks

Rare Earth magnets; e-bay!


The BEST place to find gold coins are at 1840's - 1860's Army sites. Military were paid in silver and gold coin. And they DID carry them with QUITE a bit of regularity.

REMEMBER; Gold coins ID as 'pull-tab'!!!! The U.S. $1.00 gold coin ID's as 'foil'.

Throughout the entire history spectrum......the $5.00 Half Eagle gold coin WAS/IS the workhorse. It reads square tab on all detectors (around '53' on the F75)........and high-tone/'zinc penny' on the CZ-3D in the 'enhanced' mode.

In the 1840's (up until around mid-year 1847)......it was the $2.50 Quarter Eagle that was the workhorse. It ID's as a '42' on F75. Remember.......this is under ideal/textbook perfect conditions.

IF you find a gold coin..............it is apt to be dated 1843 - 1882. There is a MUCH less chance ....... but possible it'll be dated in the range of 1883 - 1906. Nearly impossible to be dated 1907 - 1933 (although huge mintage quantities.....they did not CIRCULATE).

And it is highly doubtful that it'll be a Eagle or Double Eagle........unless it is a cache.

The U.S. $1.00 gold coins were hated...........because SOOOOoooooo many people LOST them. They are exceptionally TINY. ((( A great scenario for us detectorists ))).
Many detectors can hardly detect a $1.00 gold coin. A F75 LTD can detect it (in real dirt) to depths of 10".......under reasonable conditions. This $1 coin is considered a fairly large target to the F75/LTD. Not so with nearly all other detectors.

The $1 gold coin was in HEAVY HEAVY circulation from November, 1849 to April, 1862. Remember, the Silver Dollar DID NOT EXIST for CIRCULATION during this window/era!!!!! Sooooooo. it was ONLY the $1 gold coin that was available.....during this era.

Tom

Excellent info. Tom thanks alot. I've been wondering alot lately just how those coins id on the LTD.

What's presented.....is a life-span of research, in a nutshell.....IRT gold coins.

What i meant to say: nice post Tom!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 06:27PM by rapidroy7.

Thanks for the tip on military post pay. I know a area that is now a public recreation area that was once the enlisted men's army barracks site in the late 1800's. Time for some serious low disc hunting. Already have found late 1800 military buttons there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2011 06:03AM by TerraDigger.

Hmmmmm. Take this site SERIOUSLY.

Out here in California I know (and have seen) several hunters that have found gold coins. One guy in San Francisco found what appeared to be someones savings, something like 18 $20 gold pieces that appeared to have been collateral damage from the 1906 quake/fire. He has found something like 30 gold coins all together in all his years of detecting, and his cache was featured in the western & eastern treasure magazine. I know another guy that mainly hunts old sites (old for CA) stage stops, adobes, spanish era sites, etc., and he's found about 15 gold coins over his 30+ years of detecting. I see a couple of gold coins per year found in Northern California. A few years back a guy found one of the ultra rare (and uber expensive) private mint gold rush era coins.

I've read several times that more gold coins are found in California then any other state, the only reason why that I can think of (if it's in fact true) is due to the gold rush.

Even though there's a multitude of silver coins worth far more, it seems to be the pinnacle of everyones detecting wish list....including mine

Since Cal was one of the primary States for minting these coins.........it may hold some truth.

My brother found a gold piece here in Mississippi on a WBTS site. He is the only person that I know of that has found one. It was in mint condition with no wear. I don't recall if it was a 2 1/2 or a 5 dollar coin. Silver Reales are more common here.

one thing I read years ago about finding gold coins is the Eastern US had strong banks, so most people kept their money in banks, from the Miss River west, people held on to their gold, so they lost it easier, I rarely hear of someone east of the Miss. River finding gold coins, but I bet they are there to be found, probably in a large jar full of gold and silver coins

This is really a great post !!.....I can't help but wonder how many of these gold coins went overseas, and were other countries paying more money for gold back in the day ? ....... There's so much comodity trading today, there must have been back in the day too !!..... Currency changing hands via the rich !!......

Back when I was a kid ( 50 yrs ago or so ) my best friend lived down the railroad tracks from me ....His family lived on a large piece of property that was first divided by the NYS Thruway , and then later , large chunks sold off for taxes ...... On this property is a large Grist Mill that still stands today ....The lake that use to power the Grist Mill is gone, but the rusted iron paddle wheel is still there and we as kids tried to restore the Mill .... There was a workshop in the mill with many old tools and there was large leather belts sinched together that ran the machinery in the mill .....It was all hand hewn beams and there were letters and orders written that we found ..... The property was handed down from generation to generation and it's still in the family minus a lot of the property that the State took by hook and by crook !!...... When we were kids working on the mill , I remember seeing a strange peg in one of the beams .....I got up on a stool to see what it was and it was loose ....I pulled the notch out of the beam and inside was a small cubby space that had a small leather bag inside of it ....I pulled it out , and there were gold pieces in the bag !!......I was just a kid ....I didn't know any better ....but we always took whatever we found up to my friends parents ....I have yet to go back there to hunt .....I will soon though !!......I'm still close with the familiy !!..... I couldn't help but think how valuable $5 and $10 gold pieces must have been back in the day ......This was back when money really MEANT something ....Not the worthless currency that we have today !!....Jim

In the town I grew up in, someone I know told me that when we were kids one of his buddies would pull weeds and cut grass for extra spending money. He was at this one house and had the flower bed all dug up to pull the weeds and plant some new flowers for the old lady that lived there and he found several gold coins that were buried in the flower garden. Now there's a small medical clinic built on half of the lot where the house used to be, the rest is just a vacant field. I've detected it a couple of times, but thus far the story remains an urban legend

The world would be surprised if they knew just how much is actually "deliberately" buried.

If a half eagle (in ideal conditions) id's as a 53, and a quarter eagle id's at 42, what do the eagle and double eagle id as on an f75? Thanks Tom.