Long Range Locaters?

The recent post got Me thinking about a friend I had who past a few years back. He was in the Hobby for most His life at least 40 years or more and swore up and down He found a couple gold rings with one? I know most likely BS but anybody ever witness any finds made with one or a dowsing rod? Some people have a gift with one of those? Anyway It's a rainy day and it just got Me to thinking of My friend.

Even a blind pig finds a truffle now and again....

If you ever read the fine print on the LRL's, it usually says they can be returned for a 50% restocking fee. I think they only ever make one unit. Sold for $5,000 and returned. Seller keeps the $2,500 restocking fee. Refurbish the unit and resell it as new for $5,000 again. What a racket! Wish I had thought of it.

Yeah I remember talking to this guy I knew around 8yrs ago, claimed he could find stuff w those rods, even paper money! Okay hmm. I took him to one of my sights, where I planted a gold ring. Needless to say, he couldn’t find it! It was funny watching him though w those silly things and weird expressions on his face as he was “working them”.

We all know what PT Barham would say regarding stuff like this....

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> .... He found a couple gold rings with
> one? I know most likely BS but anybody ever witnes
> s any finds made with one or a dowsing rod? ...


Believe it or not, I wouldn't call it "BS" or "lying". The proponents of the magic wand stuff are quite sincere. And may even have actually found stuff.

Here's how they chalk up and attribute "finds": You wave the things at enough likely looking spots, and tilt it where you want it to go (subconsciously perhaps, aiming it to the most-likely spots). Eg.: likely looking ruins, heavily trampled spot on the beach, etc... Then you pull out your detector to "pinpoint" (that's the ticket), dig enough holes, and ...... wow .... you'll find metal . Maybe even a goodie.

But gee, if you dig enough holes around enough likely looking spots with a metal detector, then OF COURSE you'll eventually find stuff. Was it the wand that did it ? Or just eventual random odds of digging enough holes at likely spots ?

Jack Sparrow had one. It was a compass. All you had to do is think of what you wanted the most and it would point the way.

BS through and through,........I would believe in the tooth fairy as well......and and any other fool bound nonsense that's out there.

its a hard one_I have a local guy that swears by them, however I have only seen
some subtle hints of one of his 'possibly working' on planted targets_

If memory serves me correctly, Makro used to advertise these (LRL's) with their
deep-seekers way back before the CF77 was released_please correct me on this if i have it wrong

I don't know whether it is a natural progression to go from dosing rods to LRL's to
deep-seekers and then hobby detectors but another company from the same country
appears to be doing the same_who knows? GroundTech

I totally respect the guys who have commented here and I certainly agree with what
has been said as you can see how some sellers simply dress up some dosing rods with
lights and buttons to sell to the unwary_

But with all those bits and bobs aside, do any of you think some simple dosing rods work?

It appears throughout our history and around the world, people have been using this
method in finding all manner of things_therefore would these DR's not be the foundation for
advancement in the world of detection?

Personally I see a clear difference between 'dosing rods' and LRL's_One is used to find targets
while the other is used to milk them IMO

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

I think I have seen people use dowsing rods to find underground water on their property to figure out where to dig a well. Don't know if that actually works, seems far fetched.

RC - dowsing has a long history and I have hear enough first hand tales from relatives and friends that a dowser has not only ID’s where water would be found, but in some cases at least the depth and well production probabilities.

Carl Moreland has for years engaged on the forums to effectively debunk all the LRL nonsense, but dowsing hangs on in that space between documented scientific evidence and satisfied customers whose domestic or agricultural water supply was developed on the basis of a “dowser’s“ predictions.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 02:36AM by lytle78.

*****text deleted by author because it was too mean spirited*****


There is no convincing True Believers and it is a waste of time to even try to educate one. And I guess that's true of a lot of things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 01:45PM by Champ Ferguson.

rustic charm Wrote:
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>....do any of
> you think some simple dosing rods work?
>
> It appears throughout our history and around the w
> orld, people have been using this
> method in finding all manner of things_....

The length of time a belief or practice is held, does not add to the factuality . For example: They used to throw virgins into volcanos to control the weather. Or believed for centuries that the earth was flat, etc.... Hence "history" is not the measurement of how we determine truth .

And the # of adherents of wacky ideas that are held today, are also not a measure of the "factual-ness" of a product or method. Just tune into late night TV infomercials and see all the miracle pills and junk they sell to sincere people. So the # of adherents, and amount of history, do not equate to "therefore it must be true".

As for people "finding all manner of things" :

1) I don't know why water always gets brought up in these conversations on md'ing forums. Last I checked, this was a metal detecting forum. Not water-forum, and

2) Depends on how you define "find". Because to a lot of them they wave their thing at likely spots, take out a detector to "pinpoint" (that's the ticket) and ... Lo & behold ... find metal . Maybe even a goodie. But sure: If you dig enough holes around enough likely spots, or wave a detector where metal is most likely going to be, then SURE, you'll find stuff. Therefore any examples provided of dowsing "finds", I would classify as "anecdotal" stories. That always have more-plausible explanations, and can never be replicated under double blind scientific testing (durned those sun spots anyhow).

Just a thought here, regarding the water.

I am not an expert on underground water sources. However, I have enough knowledge of my local area to know that I sit atop the Garber-Wellington aquifer -- a water source within the Garber sandstone formation that covers a large portion of the area in which I live. ANYWHERE, within a several county area, that someone would drill, they would hit water -- in fact, they'd hit water at more than one level on the way down to the Garber-Wellington, which lies 100 to 200 feet deep here.

This is not knowledge that is "common," from the perspective that your average central Oklahoman would be completely unaware of this fact. And so, if I wanted to be "unscrupulous," preying on the ignorance of the average person with respect to ground water, and place an ad for "divining services" to "help you locate water on your property," and charge a couple hundred dollars for my services, I could do so, successfully. I could fairly easily put on a good act, wander around your property with my "tools," and "hone in" on the "right area" to dig, assuring you that if you "dig here," you'll hit water. And guess what -- you'd dig, you'd hit water, and you just might conclude that my "divining skills" were valid.

How often are these types of scenarios what lead to the testimonies of those who "insist" that they have seen divining rods "work?"

Steve



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 07:59AM by steveg.

Try turkey hunting on public land with long range locator calls. Especially the barred owl calls. After a few hoots, it will sound like a Rick Flair wrestling intro gone bad. Haha. Wooo!!

Slick Rick!

Mr Rick_thanks for that_learning all the time

Tom in CA_I made no mention of H2O ???

Cheers

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

ozzie Wrote:
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> BS through and through,........I would believe in
> the tooth fairy as well......and and any other foo
> l bound nonsense that's out there.


Tooth fairy pays one.
Long range locators cost one.

Big difference. Lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2019 01:15AM by tnsharpshooter.

steveg Wrote:
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>
> How often are these types of scenarios what lead t
> o the testimonies of those who "insist" that they
> have seen divining rods "work?"

Excellent post Steve. This is what is known as anecdotal finds, with more-plausible explanations. Yes: Anywhere leaves fall , you can find water. And sure: The proponents will swear up and down that they go beyond random chance eventual odds. But double-blind tests always show differently.


rustic charm Wrote:
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>
> Tom in CA_I made no mention of H2O ???

Yes, sorry, I was referring to the other chaps that chimed in with "water". It's always amusing when dowsing comes up on an md'ing forum, that someone will invariably start referring to successes they've seen @ water. And sure, we can debate the pro's/con's of that. Until one day it occurred to me : "Wait a minute, what does this have to do with TH'ing or metal ? " Doh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2019 02:12AM by Tom_in_CA.

2 gold rings in 40 years...that's enough to make anyone a believer!

Kidding aside, think about your dug marble collection. I've got somewhere around a hundred marbles that were found in the ground while I was digging for something else containing metal. Not a single one found by my metal detector, yet not a single one would have been found without my detector. A lot of marbles in the terra firma. A lot of coins. A lot of rings.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ozzie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BS through and through,........I would believe i
> n
> > the tooth fairy as well......and and any other f
> oo
> > l bound nonsense that's out there.
>
>
> Tooth fairy pays one.
> Long range locators cost one.
>
> Big difference. Lol

Yea, bad comparison now that you got me thinking about it. My mother was my tooth fairy.....I sure believed in her.

the gubbins of these items have been debunked over and over again by electronics engineers as being just idiotic nonsense that do nothing..
such as a child would create who had no experience of electronics

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ozzie Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > BS through and through,........I would believe
> i
> > n
> > > the tooth fairy as well......and and any other
> f
> > oo
> > > l bound nonsense that's out there.
> >
> >
> > Tooth fairy pays one.
> > Long range locators cost one.
> >
> > Big difference. Lol
>
> Yea, bad comparison now that you got me thinking a
> bout it. My mother was my tooth fairy.....I sure b
> elieved in her.

Just funnin with you Ozzie.

Tom in CA_Yeah no worries Tom_all good

I suppose to some, once you believe in these LRL's you are on the hook for life

Well that is what this local guy is like anyways_Not my cup of tea however as there
is so much to get your head around with gear that is PROVEN to work

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Would need to see proof as hard evidence of it working. Until then it’s all BS to me.

Geo

Okay--here's my spin on them. Carl Moreland offered a substantial reward to anyone who can successfuly demo a LRL--still unclaimed after many years. That said--a few years back I bought this gadget that emitted a tuned piezo tone and you used rods top work with it. after a lot of practice I was able to get a gold ring in one of 5 envos around three or four out of five times. There was also a well known chap named Fraznen who had found several meteorites using one of these Vector devices. He's passed on now but had a lot of knowledge and seemed to be pretty effective with them. Not to be entirely dismissed.... Calls 'em as ah's a-sees em....cjc

cjc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay--here's my spin on them. Carl Moreland offer
> ed a substantial reward to anyone who can successf
> uly demo a LRL--still unclaimed after many years.
> That said--a few years back I bought this gadget t
> hat emitted a tuned piezo tone and you used rods t
> op work with it. after a lot of practice I was ab
> le to get a gold ring in one of 5 envos around th
> ree or four out of five times. There was also a w
> ell known chap named Fraznen who had found several
> meteorites using one of these Vector devices. He'
> s passed on now but had a lot of knowledge and see
> med to be pretty effective with them. Not to be e
> ntirely dismissed.... Calls 'em as ah's a-sees em.
> ...cjc


It is not so much about the device as it is about the person using it. The person becomes the antenna and the device is the speaker. Only a small percentage can successfully dowse. Even variables of those that have the ability, some are more "tuned" than others. There was a very rich oil tycoon that found all his oil-wells dowsing from a car driven by his wife. Why would the oil tycoon waste his time cashing in on Carl's reward?? He wouldnt convince Carl and had all the money he needed anyway. Funny thing is the tool he used for dowsing looked like plastic zip ties (one per hand), nothing fancy or technical. I dont believe in the tool of the Long Range Locators. There is something to dowsing, but not understood and the ability extremely rare. Even Charles Garrett and Karl Von Mueller mentions it in their books. Many rural area Utility Crews in the South still use dowsing to find water lines. I personally dont mess with dowsing.....kinda creepy when you see it work...LOL

I've said it before and I'll throw it out there again:
I had a prof in college that taught us how to use bent coat hangers as 'divining/dowsing rods" to fool the rubes. Its all in how you hold them and how you contract your hand muscles- and you Cannot see me do it. If I was dishonest, I could fool the lower end of the Bell Curve into thinking I can find water or whatever. (and being a lifelong outdoorsman and geologist/hydrologist doesn't hurt me re knowing where ground water is probably nearest the surface.

Science, not Superstition. Or live in fairytaleland if that's your choice. It is still America and you can live that way if you want. Just don't expect me not to laugh.

GeoW Wrote:
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> Would need to see proof as hard evidence of it wor
> king. Until then it’s all BS to me.

And the proof will never be forthcoming. Take your pick of common fall-back excuses : A) the tests were rigged. B ) We have nothing to need to prove to you, C) The person who failed he testing was not qualified or experienced enough, D) We're so rich with big-ticket finds, that why should we bother with your double-blind testings . We will just simply laugh at you all the way to the bank. E) Durned those sun spots anyhow.


Arkansas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a very rich oil tycoon that
> found all his oil-wells dowsing from a car driven
> by his wife. Why would the oil tycoon waste his ti
> me cashing in on Carl's reward?? He wouldnt convin
> ce Carl and had all the money he needed anyway.

Yup. There's an example of push-back answer (D) above. It's not that they wouldn't pass double-blind testing with flying colors. It's just that they are not to be bothered with pesky tests by dis-honest tester skeptics. But rest assured: It works.

And .... sure ... anecdotal testimonies of "finds" are everywhere . But they can never be tested against random chance, subtle terrain clues, hunches, and simply digging enough holes in likely areas . Ie.: they fail double blind tests (take your pick of excuses).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2019 04:11PM by Tom_in_CA.

Arkansas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>There was a very rich oil tycoon that
> found all his oil-wells dowsing from a car driven
> by his wife. Why would the oil tycoon waste his ti
> me cashing in on Carl's reward??

HAHAHAHA, oil drilling rigs were small and portable and the well they drilled were shallow. TONS of dry holes were drilled. People drilled everywhere hoping to strike oil. If they didnt strike it *here* they'd move a couple miles and try again, and again. It only took one good well to make them rich. Once you hit one oil reservoir, it likely covered miles so you could literally drill anywhere and make a strike. There's no "magic" to it.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

silverfiend Wrote:
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> ered miles so you could literally drill anywhere a
> nd make a strike. There's no "magic" to it.


Yup. So when the adherents talk about their "finds", it what I'd called anecdotal testimony, which has more plausible explanations. Same for those who find water. It's been pointed out that underground water exists "wherever leaves fall", so what's the big surprise ?

I don't doubt that some people have better success at it, d/t ability to read subtle terrain clues. Same as a good md'r, who can tend to "read the beach" or study a landscape and decide the best place to start swinging his detector. Just based on years experience. Thus rods do nothing.