Two metal detectorists have found a "hoard" of coins in a field on Northern Ireland's north coast.

Treasure found in field on Northern Ireland's north coast [www.bbc.co.uk]

Just up the road from me, cracking find and gives us all some hope!

what joy they both have a just reward for doing a good deed well dug lads

Very Kool, wish there was more on the story but guessing it just happened. You guys see any updates and pictures let us know. What a great Hobby!

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2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110

Wonder what the laws are there for keeping it? There seems to be different mind set about finds in various countries which are adopted and accepted. Its like going to a different Church and trying to understand another. I think its difficult for us Americans to grasp 2000 year old items being found in the first place. We also feel if we put in the time no one should get it but us. We may need to rethink this sometime very soon.

Not many hoard's seem to get reported here in the U S. Any thing of size that may get found are probably kept hush, hush. And, perhaps, rightfully so. I wouldn't be against a law such as half going to the land owner and the other half going to the recoverer(s), something straight forward, thus keeping lawyers from getting involved. And, I am certainly not in favor of any forms of Govt. getting involved. That just becomes a cluster, well, you know what.

Being as young as our country is anyway, probably very few hoards, if any, would be anywhere near the size of those that occasionally get found in Europe. Heck, I would be happy to share a tobacco tin full of gold coins with the land owner. HH jim tn

The hoard has to go through the government system, and if it's claimed as treasure and sold to a museum, the landowner and finder will get 50% each of the full value.
If it's not declared as treasure, they get it returned and can do as they like with it.
Lots of detectorists here donate finds to the museums as it is, I've a few items to drop in myself, better there recorded and on view for all to enjoy.

I don't disagree with donating finds to museums for "view for all to enjoy." Some of our museums, however, don't put all their acquired treasures out on display for all to enjoy. HH jim tn

jim tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't disagree with donating finds to museums fo
> r "view for all to enjoy." Some of our museums, ho
> wever, don't put all their acquired treasures out
> on display for all to enjoy. HH jim tn

And have you noticed that the archivists always have the best "personal" collections??

Defo, we're lucky in that way as there quite keen to display detectorists finds here.
jim tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't disagree with donating finds to museums fo
> r "view for all to enjoy." Some of our museums, ho
> wever, don't put all their acquired treasures out
> on display for all to enjoy. HH jim tn

jim tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not many hoard's seem to get reported here in the
> U S. Any thing of size that may get found are prob
> ably kept hush, hush. And, perhaps, rightfully so.
> I wouldn't be against a law such as half going to
> the land owner and the other half going to the rec
> overer(s), something straight forward, thus keepin
> g lawyers from getting involved. And, I am certain
> ly not in favor of any forms of Govt. getting invo
> lved. That just becomes a cluster, well, you know
> what.
>
> Being as young as our country is anyway, probably
> very few hoards, if any, would be anywhere near th
> e size of those that occasionally get found in Eur
> ope. Heck, I would be happy to share a tobacco tin
> full of gold coins with the land owner. HH jim tn

Difference in definitions too. If a handful of silver coins is found in an English field, its declared a hoard and property of the govt. You can pull hundreds of coins out of a field in the US and nobody would even pretend it was a "hoard". Unless it was a group of precious metal items contained inside a vessel, they would just be a bunch of individual finds.

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jim tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....
> I wouldn't be against a law such as half going to
> the land owner and the other half going to the rec
> overer(s), something straight forward, thus keepin
> g lawyers from getting involved. ...

Curious why that can't happen already ? I mean, it's not uncommon for a USA hunter to make any sort of agreement, with a landowner here, that the 2 of them agree upon. It can be half and half, as you suggest. So why would there need to be a "law", as you suggest ? Heck, it seems to me that .... rather than a "law" , that the parties involved make an agreement as to what to do with the finds. Presto: No lawyers or govt. involved.

As for either side "reneging" and violating the terms of such an agreement (thus, as you say, involving "lawyers"), well: So too can the same thing happen in a country where laws require 50/50, archie involvement, blah blah. I mean .... so too can people get greedy and break agreements. No different than here. The "laws" do not change that. All it does is add one more layer of bureaucracy. Better to have our USA system where: It's totally between you and farmer Bob what you want to do with a found-cache. If someone is hell-bent on breaking a law or agreement, then no added amount of laws solve that.

Tom...... the difference being a LAW certainly sides with one side over the other..... which reduces ones ability to even take it to court. I see the main problem as deciding what is fairly half. Which in the case of a HUGE find (s) likely would end up in the courts..... mostly to negotiate the division. Just business at that point. Kind of off the point ...... but as a boy everyone used to collect arrow heads..... it was a hobby..... now days it practically illegal to collect them.... and is from public lands. Relic hunt as a whole is changing.

Hey there Dew. To dissect your reply, point-by-point :

".. the difference being a LAW certainly sides with one side over the other..... "

Sure. And guess what ? The law of the USA is that a contract is legally binding. Ie.: If 2 persons make an agreement (even verbally, if you can believe that), then it becomes a legally binding contract. Thus: No different than "laws".

".... which reduces ones ability to even take it to court.... "

To the extent that this is true, there is a "devil in the details", that I'll explain in a moment .


... Which in the case of a HUGE find (s) likely would end up in the courts....."

I disagree. There is probably finds, in the USA, that ... gasp "didn't end up in the courts". And to the extent that some have, then I bet that 1) added laws would not have solved that, and 2) I'll bet there's probably skirmishes and battles and deceit that have likewise occurred in the UK.

Now the "devil in the details" is this: As much as the UK system seems like the "cat's meow" that the USA should adopt, it will never happen. The "wealth under the ground " here does not belong to the crown/govt. If you strike oil on your land, then .... like the Beverly hillbillies, it's yours. And to start to suggest to archies here (of which 90% are "purist") any sort of system, is going to bring down all sorts of RESTRICTIONS. Not ALLOWANCES.

A simple example of this is: Look at any city that ever dreamed up a "permit" system for md'ing. Sounds great eh ? Conjurs up images of being able to detect nilly willy, eh ? Yet a closer look shows silly rules fine print like: "Turn in all finds of value to the park office" and "digger tool shall not exceed 3" in length", and "only for modern objects", and "not with 20 ft. of any tree", etc....

Thus trust me: we do NOT want the govt. involved in our hobby, splits, laws , etc... The LESS they think of us: The better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2019 02:24PM by Tom_in_CA.

Where are you ? I'm in Garvagh I have lots of land, but unfortunately a lot of SSI's on some of it too LOL, so have to stay out of those fields, but still enough land

In NI, unlike England and Wales (Not sure on scotland), detecting or any form of searching for archeological "treasure" is illegal, so we are ALWAYS searching when asked, for a crowbar, mates wedding ring, farmers tractor part. watch, necklace etc. If asked and you say just treasure hunting, you would be arrested and hauled before the local beak to face prosecution asap !! So, and fortunately for me being involved in farm repairs, I am ALWAYS looking for misplaced tools and farm implement or tractor parts

There is however a big problem looming, which has reared it's ugly head in the UK as a whole before, and on the continent too (Probably everywhere in the world if the truth be know), and that is, when the press (or just local detecting circles) pubish or make know in other ways, the area (and sometimes the EXACT location) of the find. What happens then, and I expect it will happen in this case too, as the exact location (well, the exact field), has been made public, we will no doubt see that area inundated with "Nighthawkers" (People who without permission, search the area illegally for more treasure which they don't report and they illegally sell).
They are the ones who destroy the hobby for everyone, as the government then blame the whole of the detecting community and start talking about legislating to ban detecting, or bring it back to a permit system, where very few are given a permit (Which is prohibitively expensve, and wighed down with massive reporting condtions, as the German system is now). This sort of permit system, or even banning outright, does not STOP the problem, it exacerbates it massively, aseveryone then becomes a nighthawker, as they have nothing to lose.
In NI it is already banned to look for archeological treasure, but there is work behind thescenes to bring in into a public system, hopefully NOT a permit system where the gvernment decides who detects and who doesn't !!
Then someone who has permission for years suddenly loses that permission to someone who is best mates witht the local councillor, he will then become a nighthawker, and the farmer might not get on with the one who has been given the permit, but can't stop him detecting, so that is pre programmed trouble too.

Are there countries that require a permit to detect on private property?!?!?

Redditch……. thanks for this data/insight.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Redditch……. thanks for this data/insight.


No problem, glad to help

coinhunterseth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there countries that require a permit to detec
> t on private property?!?!?

It depends, if you are detecting for "Archeological items" or not. Germany and France, Italy etc, generally say you can detect for lost property (Northern Ireland, and Southern Ireland are the same), But archeological detecting requires a permit. Nearly every country also has a law that states anything archeological that is found (One way or the other), must be handed in. Some places you get a reward of market value or a percentage of that worth, depending what country depends on the percentage, it can be 0% to 100%. Germany depends on which state (county). Some will give you 100%, most will give you a degree of recompence varying from 1% to 50%. Even the counties that give permits, can be extremely difficult to deal with, some despite the law requiring them to issue permits, flat out refuse to do so. Not openly, they just keep putting new hurdles in your way so that generally after 3 to 5 years you give up trying. Then they compain they have a nighthawking problem LOL. Most that issue permits give you somthing like 3 to 6 fields to detect, and you have to keep a logbook of detecting, and anything found listed and described, with coordinates, not GPS, but their own convoluted system.
Some countries. even some in Europe, flat out ban the possession of metal detectors, and yet still lose masses of archeological items, simply due to the ban, but they don't correolate that fact in their narrow mindedness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2019 08:37PM by Redditch.

Redditch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coinhunterseth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are there countries that require a permit to det
> ec
> > t on private property?!?!?
>
> It depends, if you are detecting for "Archeologica
> l items" or not. Germanyhy and France, Italy etc,
> generally say you can detect for lost property (No
> rthern Ireland, and Southern Ireland are the same)
> , But archeological detecting requires a permit. N
> early every country also has a law that states ant
> hung archeological that is found (One way or the o
> ther), must be handed in. Some places you get a re
> ward of market value or a percentage of that worth
> , depending what country depends on the percentage
> , it can be 0% to 100%. Germany depends on which s
> tate (county). Some will give you 100%, most will
> give you a degree of recompence varying from 1% to
> 50%. Even the counties that give permits, can be e
> xtremely difficult to deal with, some despite the
> law requiring them to issue permits, flat out refu
> se to do so. Not openly, they just keep putting ne
> w hurdles in your way so that generally after 3 to
> 5 years you give up trying. Then they compain they
> have a nighthawking problem LOL. Most that issue p
> ermits give you somthing like 3 to 6 fields to det
> ect, and you have to keep a logbook of detecting,
> and anything found listed and described, with coor
> dinates, not GPS, but their own convoluted system.
> Some countries. even some in Europe, flat out ban
> the possession of meta detectors, and yet still lo
> se masses of archeological items, simoly due to th
> e ban, but they don't correolate that fact in thei
> r narrow mindedness.


Redditch, there has been several attempts, over the decades, to make a compendium of the laws/rules of the various European countries. And .... like your post ... many of them were down-right dour sounding. If not outright "no's". But oddly, detectors are often-time common-place in those exact same countries/places. And .... like anywhere else .... if you mind your P's & Q's, and use a bit of common sense (don't waltz through historic monuments, blah blah), then .... it's not an issue.

The problem with those attempts at lists (which come up with discouraging sounding language), is the method in which they were compiled. The most common way to assemble it, is to simply ask lawyers or govt. bureaucrats in those areas. Or .... to consult md'rs there, who have done this exact method (ie.: who better to ask, than the powers-that-be in-authority after all, eh ?) And then sure as heck, odd answers come forth . No doubt the question was "passed up the chain of desks" to a purist archie, who passed back down dire-sounding answers. That perhaps alluded to cultural heritage language. But often time this doesn't take into account that the answer has ONLY to do with public land, not private land. Ie.: like a speed limit on a public road doesn't apply to your private land road, for instance. Yet ....the "dire answer" doesn't make those distinctions. To the casual skittish reader, he might just assume it means "border to border in the entire country". When in fact, it was only for public lands. And farmer Bob can do whatever-the-heck he wants on his own land.

I once had a detector listed on Ebay for sale. And failed to check the box to only limit it to USA bidders. To my chagrin, the winning bidder was from one of those countries that .... on the compendium list, was .... uh .... quite restrictive (if not an outright "no"). The buyer paid fully up front, including over-seas shipping, so I went through with the sale. And .... in the process ... couldn't resist : I linked him to the "dire-sounding language" and asked : "I thought md'ing wasn't allowed there ? How do you do it ?" He replied back that the law/rule I was reading, only applied to public land (despite the law not saying that explicitly). And that they hunt private farmers lands with permission. And/or that .... quite frankly .... they're so far back in the woods when they hunt, that there's not anyone around to care, in the first place.

So despite the lists, you sometimes have to read between the lines. And .... like you say .... you're looking for modern coins (not "archaeological"), and to find that plow blade your buddy lost last week in his field.