CTX built to be expensive?

OK, so I attended a seeded hunt sponsored by Minelab just before the release of the CTX. Minelab held a marketing program where they introduced the CTX and touted all its attributes . When it was handed to me I thought "what a beast, what a pig. I don't need GPS, I'll buy my own GPS if I want one". Now I know its an excellent detector when it comes to finding certain stuff, in certain environments, so I'm not bashing its performance. Its the way its built that I think is ridicules. Every other detector has about the same size lower rod. They cost about $14 - $20. CTX close to $200. The Arm cuff must run about $50. Coils $295 & up. I've got to think Minelab worked really hard trying to figure out how to make it expensive. I'm sure glad they have finally seen the light with the Equinox.
Anyone else think they over built the CTX just to make a bunch of extra bucks?

As an analogy, I'm pretty sure that Ferrari Testarossas weren't made with off the shelf parts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 02:06AM by Champ Ferguson.

Ferrari Testarossas are pretty much individually hand built. Not built by the Thousands. 747 are more expensive than Piper Cubs. I think for the most part, for most types of detecting, my Equinox will run circles around the CTX.

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. The Eq is a great machine; especially for the money.
(rem, I did say Analogy)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 04:01AM by Champ Ferguson.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the mark up on a CTX was intentionally made very high. They studied their customers and realized what a percentage would be willing to pay for new technology at that time. In reality, the production cost of a CTX might not have been much more than the E-Trac but the demand was there and they took advantage of it.

By 2018 times had changed. New technology in manufacturing has brought costs way down. The science of calculating sales and profits has also improved. They needed to come up with an idea that would make everyone drop what they were using and go with something new, as well as bring newcomers into the hobby. Now we have the Equinox. It's as good or better than the CTX at a much lower price. Sales are off the charts. There is still much improvement to be made in detector design and marketing which we we will soon see reflected in the coming years.

I owned 2. I bought them for one reason. To beach hunt. I was tired of the fragile Excals and also wanted target ID. After all a few good finds and the price was insignificant.

Minelab offered a detector for beach hunting that people waited decades for. And we spent the money gladly.


Now we have the Equinox. As good as the CTX? In my opinion......yes.


When will Minelab trim the lineup? The ETtac.....The Xterra series..... Go finds.......have to be dead inventory. Especially with the Vanquish coming out.

Maybe announcements have already been made. As I have said many times. The Equinox made detectors extinct including some of the Minelabs.

It seems the best beach machines are the raw power...... simple machines. Ever swing a CTX in the water? its like swinging a dead horse. People were fascinated with the military build of things..... man thing i guess. It gave you EVERYTHING...... in some ways its easier to swing than the Nox out of the water for its weight. I still like the smartscreen over the single digit. Rarely dug a bottle cap unless i wanted to...... NEVER had chatter in those important lower gold digits. I without a doubt the CTX is much quieter in the water than the Nox. There are advantages to both....... but mostly its the price and simplisity of the machine. They gave us a great warranty..... and many of us got a military discount. The roll out was .... BAD....... but they made up for it by improving their CS.

I've never swung a dead horse but for me, the CTX glides through water much easier than the Equinox. In fact, it's the only reason why I keep a CTX around....for water hunting.

I also think for the most part, the CTX represents the last of an era of for high dollar general use hobby detectors. As noted now, the competition has caused there to be a refocus of what features and performance that can be found in units costing much less. Those features at the time, were only found on the higher end machines and that's why people ponied up that extra money. Now, waterproof machines with wireless headphones, adjustable tone breaks and tone selection, and firmware update capability are the industry standard...for around the $400 mark. Of course Nokta just went a step further with the Simplex at $250 US dollars and offering a lot of those same features.

I have a Remington 700 rifle that I bought about 20 years ago that shot decent as a factory gun. I sunk a lot of money into it with upgrades and updates...new trigger job, new stock that free floated the barrel and was bedded...just things like that. By the time I had it shooting sub MOA groups, I had about $900 in the gun, not counting the scope on it. Fast forward to around 2014-2015. I bought my wife what I considered to be a cheaper rifle in the same caliber as my premium rifle. A Ruger American in .270 Winchester The stock and finish on the rifle looked cheap but I figured what the heck, for $300 you can't beat it, and she was only going to be using it as a hunting rifle anyway so it didn't have to be same hole accurate like my rifle and it wouldn't hurt if she scuffed it or scratched it. Here is where I was surprised...as the firearm industry has had the same thing happen to it as what we are currently discussing with metal detectors. I took that $300 cheap rifle straight out of the box...put a scope on it, and went to the bench to sight it in. And out of the box...no upgrades required...it shoots same hole accuracy at 100 yards just like my rifle that cost me nearly $1,000 to build. I couldn't believe it. Now, the finish and such on my rifle are much better...but where it counts (down range) that $300 rifle is just as good. In fact, I have retired mine to the gun safe for fear of scratching it up, and went and bought another American for myself.

why is the CTX so expensive? 2 factors: adding many of the components we had been asking for over many years. Then the calculated "how much can we ask for" factor.

sure, not everyone uses all the features that the CTX offers, but just because YOU don't use them doesnt mean others dont. The truth is that Minelab had been monitoring our conversations for years and built us the detector we had asked for. The only features we didnt get was LIGHTER and CHEAPER. But guess what, now we have the EQX which is just as good as the CTX (whether you like the display or not) and its LIGHTER and CHEAPER.

The truth is that there are a lot of people who correlate price with quality or ability. Many people will buy the most expensive model from the start, even though they have no idea what they are doing. So there is always a market for those customers. Then you have the people who always want the cheapest, so no we have the V series for them.

People will always complain about something it doesnt matter how great it is. You cant build a tank that weighs a feather. You cant build a feature packed, tank-tough detector for the price of a throw-away beginner. This is the only hobby that you have a chance to get a return on your investment. Purchase accordingly.

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You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

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We really disagree on how the CTX moves in the water...... and if there is a lot of water movement and you are out there say chest deep coil control is out the window because it tends to want to float on you with that sealed battery pack. I think a lot of guys wanted the Nox for very small gold ..... like chains in the water. IMO ..... that didnt happen over what we already had. Thats one area the Nox needs to be looked at..... in the water. You arent paying nearly what you were either for a CTX...... what $1700?

ML seriously set a standard...... very very hard for most to meet..... price, warranty and performance. Kind of like Wal-mart..... they so undercut the local mom and pop places they are just fading away. A lot of the parts may be those they now make or have already bought for other machines and can be used...... that keeps bringing down the price. It would be nice to see some machines.......like say the Xcal come down to a reasonable price now...... i mean they added $300 to it just because our dollar wasnt doing well.

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .... think they over built the CTX just to
> make a bunch of extra bucks?

Uuhh, as a business owner.... I'm just curious: What's wrong with angling to "make a few extra bucks " ? Did you think minelab Co. was a charity organization ? :/

For those comparing the CTX vs the Equinox, you have to consider that the CTX is really the advancement of FBS, so nothing new there, just more bells and whistles on existing technology with a larger price tag. It's the pinnacle of FBS technology, in a heavy as hell, built like a tank physical package with a hefty price tag. I think the CTX is a fine detector, but the one thing that kept me from buying it, was never the price, but the weight (yes, yes, it's balanced, but still heavy).

The Equinox on the other hand is completely new technology. Multi-IQ vs FBS2. If you follow FBS to its origins the original Explorer series launched in 1999, the CTX 3030 launched in 2012. That's over 13 years that Minelab had to work on improving their FBS/FBS2 technology. Imagine where the Equinox, and more importantly Multi-IQ technology will be 13 years after it's launch. What will Multi-IQ2 look like? I suspect now that the Equinox and Vanquish are out the door, we'll see the evolution of Multi-IQ technology, or at a minimum, much like the CTX, we'll see a lot of bells and whistles added to Multi-IQ technology, and possibly a hefty price increase for those features.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those comparing the CTX vs the Equinox, you ha
> ve to consider that the CTX is really the advancem
> ent of FBS, so nothing new there, just more bells
> and whistles on existing technology with a larger
> price tag. It's the pinnacle of FBS technology, i
> n a heavy as hell, built like a tank physical pack
> age with a hefty price tag. I think the CTX is a
> fine detector, but the one thing that kept me from
> buying it, was never the price, but the weight (ye
> s, yes, it's balanced, but still heavy).
>
> The Equinox on the other hand is completely new te
> chnology. Multi-IQ vs FBS2. If you follow FBS to
> its origins the original Explorer series launched
> in 1999, the CTX 3030 launched in 2012. That's ov
> er 13 years that Minelab had to work on improving
> their FBS/FBS2 technology. Imagine where the Equi
> nox, and more importantly Multi-IQ technology will
> be 13 years after it's launch. What will Multi-IQ
> 2 look like? I suspect now that the Equinox and
> Vanquish are out the door, we'll see the evolution
> of Multi-IQ technology, or at a minimum, much like
> the CTX, we'll see a lot of bells and whistles add
> ed to Multi-IQ technology, and possibly a hefty pr
> ice increase for those features.


That's a good way of understanding it. The CTX is in actuality, the final detector in the Explorer series. I doubt there will be any more FBS machines after it.

It was the 5.2 pounds that turned me off as well. I swung an Explorer SE for many years and I did not want another heavy detector.

.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 11:18PM by Badger in NH.

What is happening in the detector industry, well.... I wish that would happen in the automotive industry . . Affordable well built dependable cars.

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is happening in the detector industry, well.... I wish that would happen in the automotive industry . . Affordable well built dependable cars.


What no Tesla space truck for you?

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Slick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > .... think they over built the CTX just to
> > make a bunch of extra bucks?
>
> Uuhh, as a business owner.... I'm just curious:
> What's wrong with angling to "make a few extra buc
> ks " ? Did you think minelab Co. was a charity
> organization ? :/


Well said.

Hellz YEAH they’re expensive! They’re probably gonna send you a bill just for talking about it! Even at how much money they cost, when mine croaks I’ll buy another, it simply works the best for what I do. I’m also one of the seemingly few people who uses EVERY function it has, which might contribute to my love affair with it.
It’s MEANT to be a “boutique” item...pretty, and pretty expensive. I see Gary is still using his on Oak Island, so I’m just following his lead, I’ll admit it.

There's nothing wrong with the CTX, but I can't help think if this is the pinnacle of FBS, the likes of which we'll probably not see again as FBS is destined to die on the vine, why is that? Why didn't the Equinox just employ FBS technology in a light weight, water proof package with Bluetooth wireless?

If Multi-IQ is to be compared to the FBS/FBS2, and considering that the Equinox is like an Explorer XS in that it's the first unit to employ Multi-IQ, what will Multi-IQ bring to the table when it's been through as many advancements and is as refined as much as the CTX?

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hellz YEAH they’re expensive! They’re probably gon
> na send you a bill just for talking about it! Even
> at how much money they cost, when mine croaks I’ll
> buy another, it simply works the best for what I d
> o. I’m also one of the seemingly few people who us
> es EVERY function it has, which might contribute t
> o my love affair with it.
> It’s MEANT to be a “boutique” item...pretty, and p
> retty expensive. I see Gary is still using his on
> Oak Island, so I’m just following his lead, I’ll a
> dmit it.

I agree with you, if I am going to spend $for a unit with a ton of options then I am going to use all those options. I will always own a CTX3030 but also enjoy my E Trac and Equinox.

It looks as though half the cost of the CTX was for the technology and materials, the other half was just because they could get away with it. Well P.T. Barnum said it better than I could. I appreciate everyone's input.

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..... the other half was
> just because they could get away with it. ....

And again, as a business owner, I ask again : "What's wrong with that ?" The free-market is supply & demand. If you have a "widget", that plenty of people are more-than-willing to pay $100 for, then : Do you sell it for $50 ? Or do you sell it for $100 ?

I am not sure why it's "getting away with something", when you sell something for whatever-the-market-will bear. I do not feel the slightest tinge of guilt, if our company (gasp) "turns a profit" on a given year.

Or how about this equivalent scenario : If you are not a business owner, and .... are a worker/laborer/employee : You have 2 job offers on the table. If every other ingredient is the same (benefits, hours in the week, hardship level, etc...), then : Do you take the job that pays $20 p/h ? Or the job that pays $30 p/h ?

It's the same concept for the business owner : He's going to look at where his "bread is buttered".

Yep...”what the market will bear”...if nobody bought one at their asking price, rest assured they would’ve lowered the price. Lots of RISK is assumed in producing the item in the first place, so with big risk big reward is expected. I have much testing in the field to do between the CTX and EQX next year once I have what I would consider sufficient experience with the EQX. I DO believe that each machine is suited to specific conditions on any given day, so having the assortment of tools in hand is a great thing. IMHO, Minelab has put some real gems out in the marketplace for us to use from their inception, and there is a price to be paid for them.
And as the Cobra said...wait til they REALLY get going on the new tech! What WILL they think of next?? A really good imager perhaps? Time will tell....

IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep...”what the market will bear”...if nobody boug
> ht one at their asking price, rest assured they wo
> uld’ve lowered the price. Lots of RISK is assumed
> in producing the item in the first place, so with
> big risk big reward is expected....
> .

^ ^ This ^ ^

If someone doesn't want to shop at Macy's, they're more-than-welcome to shop at K-Mart . And if K-mart or Macy's had a "hot item" that was flying off the shelves, you can bet they wouldn't sell it "at a loss" or at "break-even".

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or how about this equivalent scenario : If you are not a business owner, and .... are a worker/laborer/employee : You have 2 job offers on the table. If every other ingredient is the same (benefits, hours in the week, hardship level, etc...), then : Do you take the job that pays $20 p/h ? Or the job that pays $30 p/h ?

Neither, are you trying to starve me

Tom in CA - How do you like your CTX? If you don't have one, why not?
It's not the price that bothers me and as a business owner I understand the Whole profit thing. What bothers me is the way the CTX was designed. Really, $200 for a lower rod? I guess there wasn't $2500 worth of technology in the product so they had to justify the extra cost by designing a unit that folks couldn't easily modify or change, and if there really is one born every minute, that means there's plenty of customers out there. JMHO.

Mine has paid for itself and dang near paid for itself in clad. And yes, that's including the "$200 lower rod".

I swear, some people are just jealous by nature, I guess. I invite anyone not satisfied with a product to not buy one or to offer the market something that is better.

Sorry. Not trying to get anyone upset with their purchase. I'm just Jealous and I don't understand how I managed to find anything all these years.
"I invite anyone not satisfied with a product to not buy one" Good advice, guess I won't.

Kina what I figured.

I'd suspect that ML is done with FBS simply because it has huge downside in regards to small low-conductors, in that it will not resolve most of them. I'm sure ML design engineers realized they can't fix the problem as it is inherit to the FBS platform. So, the smart move was to turn a new direction with Multi-IQ, which nails those small low-conductors with ease. The CTX is the last lumbering reptilian beast in an extinct evolutionary line. It is the more nimble and light-footed mammals that henceforth will rule the earth.