I sometimes think we get snookered by operating frequency....

I'm not much for air testing or burying test targets. The only thing that works for me is in ground cross checking on found, un-excavated targets. The photos above were taken on field cross checking sessions in the Nevada desert. Find a target with one machine, check with other three. Excavate and see what it was. Switch detectors, find another target, cross check with other three. Excavate. Do this over and over as required to make a decision about what works best for me in my ground on my targets. How machines react to bad ground and handle hot rocks is every bit as important as how they detect the gold. It can get very hair splitting and some decisions are pretty subjective, but in the end I settle on some machines and let others go. Ultimately when I head out I can only use one detector with maybe another for backup, and the reality is that the VLF is usually riding shotgun for something like a GPZ 7000 or a high power PI. I don't find splitting hairs over second tier machines to be all that productive when the real finds are being made with something else anyway. Right now I find a White's Goldmaster 24K and Equinox 800 precludes my needing the other units. I'm not saying they are better, just what is working for me in my mix. Others might make different choices under similar circumstances.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2019 05:55PM by Steve Herschbach.

Steve - That's exactly how I test them too. Doing it that way can be very pain staking and time consuming but once you do it, there's no other way that you'll find to be better for seeing which does the best for you in your soil.

The air test stuff is fun but shows very little of the capability of a detector IMO.

My most recent example is this CZ3D that I just bought. It is a 1021 serial number that Tom calibrated/validated as an 11.9 inch unit. They have a cult like following in the detecting community and are often viewed as the Holy Grail of detectors. I have been playing with it the last couple of days and as for air testing, WOW that is an amazing machine. It will indeed hit a dime out to 12 inches with correct tone and ID which is great with an 8 inch coil. BUT in even my milder ground, it fails to hit ANY of my coin targets with proper ID. In fact, it reads them all as........drum roll....you guessed it, IRON. The shallowest coin I have is a 5 inch indian cent, that I dug and is a bit corroded...even it IDs as iron on the CZ. If a person was going just by air test info...this would be a home run machine, but we never dig anything in the air. I have noticed the Nokta/Makro machines to be this same way. They will air test better than most all other machines I have tried, but in the ground, the ID goes to IRON very rapidly. I remember when the Impact came out, I bought one and was blown away by the air testing trials of it. Holy cow...here was a machine that in the right mode, could hit a Civil War bullet out to 14-15 inches in disc mode air testing with good numbers and tone. In the ground, couldn't hit one at 6 inches without calling it iron. That's quite a drop off.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve - That's exactly how I test them too. Doing
> it that way can be very pain staking and time cons
> uming but once you do it, there's no other way tha
> t you'll find to be better for seeing which does t
> he best for you in your soil.
>
> The air test stuff is fun but shows very little of
> the capability of a detector IMO.
>
> My most recent example is this CZ3D that I just bo
> ught. It is a 1021 serial number that Tom calibra
> ted/validated as an 11.9 inch unit. They have a cu
> lt like following in the detecting community and a
> re often viewed as the Holy Grail of detectors. I
> have been playing with it the last couple of days
> and as for air testing, WOW that is an amazing mac
> hine. It will indeed hit a dime out to 12 inches
> with correct tone and ID which is great with an 8
> inch coil. BUT in even my milder ground, it fails
> to hit ANY of my coin targets with proper ID. In
> fact, it reads them all as........drum roll....you
> guessed it, IRON. The shallowest coin I have is
> a 5 inch indian cent, that I dug and is a bit corr
> oded...even it IDs as iron on the CZ. If a person
> was going just by air test info...this would be a
> home run machine, but we never dig anything in the
> air. I have noticed the Nokta/Makro machines to b
> e this same way. They will air test better than m
> ost all other machines I have tried, but in the gr
> ound, the ID goes to IRON very rapidly. I remember
> when the Impact came out, I bought one and was blo
> wn away by the air testing trials of it. Holy cow
> ...here was a machine that in the right mode, coul
> d hit a Civil War bullet out to 14-15 inches in di
> sc mode air testing with good numbers and tone. I
> n the ground, couldn't hit one at 6 inches without
> calling it iron. That's quite a drop off.


Spot on, echoes my findings.

I do air bench testing just to get an idea what the detector is capable of in the way of modes and settings, before heading out the door with it the first time. And I don't do test gardens.
I do my evaluations in the real world in actual hunting situations to see what a detector can really do. Which also confirms much that is posted about depth of any given model is hyped....in regards to the soil we have here.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Dont use a test garden???......So basically in your way of testing..... a dog detector can be taken to a loaded site and it will appear to be a top dog detector....then you take a top dog detector to hunted out site and it will appear to be a dog detector....I can evaluate a detectors strengths and weaknesses in my test garden in a matter of minutes ....depth, separation, tones, how it handles my soil, etc...Those controlled test with iron can not really be duplicated in the field because you dont have XRAY vision to see how it is oriented in the ground. Actual hunting and a test garden are a imperative part in the testing process..

Do you want to send it to me to run in my garden?

So in your test results you wrote on findmall about the Vista X you have no idea how deep it is in your soil on coins because you only air tested it? Is that correct?

How did you test the unmasking potential on the Vista X?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2019 12:30PM by calabash digger.

Steve H. ……. I would really like to know what you think of your EQX-800 in your bad dirt. Do you find Prospecting Mode-1..... or..... Prospecting Mode-2 to show any real-world difference(s)? I know the GPZ is still the trump-card; yet, is there any attributes/merit in the EQX?
If we reinvent the wheel (EQX)…… what improvements would you like to see?

I remember prospecting with Fred Brust….. just outside Paradise, CA...… with a Gold Bug-2. Mineralization was so bad.... that everything ID'd as 'iron'. . . . regardless of Grnd Bal settings. A test-sample picker nugget would Disc out.... if you invoked the Iron Disc switch.

Statistically speaking (ratio-wise)…….. I find more stones (and of greater value)….. whilst micro-jewelry hunting in active sandy volleyball courts and sandy tot-lots. . . . . compared to regular beach hunting on the wet-slope and/or: in the water. I do find larger gold in the wet (and water); yet, the greater value (due to the precious stones)….. is in micro-jewelry hunting. [[[And this is with 23-years worth of collected/aggregate data analysis..... from micro-jewelry hunting]]]. The Gold Bug-2 presents stunning micro-jewelry dry sand performance here in Florida's low mineral silica/sand.

(((If only to create/invent a Prospecting Mode for the wet-salt!)))

Hi Tom,

You and I both discovered independently that Multi-IQ produced better and more consistent reports on small gold than any single frequency, leading to the addition of Multi to the Gold Modes. I have noted no real difference between Gold Mode 1 and Gold Mode 2 myself once they are set identically though I'm not swearing there are not any. Just nothing that I have observed in actual field use to make me prefer one over the other. I personally find the Equinox with 6" coil to be so effective that I sold my beloved Gold Bug 2, something I thought I would never do. The range of adjustments and settings lets me do things I could not do effectively with the Gold Bug 2 when dealing with trash and hot rocks. The single frequencies allow me to downshift for less sensitivity in bad ground that helps mellow or alleviate some hot rock responses. Multi is too "hot" for some locations. The E800 with small coil comes very close to the Gold Bug 2 for micro gold sensitivity while easily besting it on larger gold... and larger gold pays the bills. Between Gold Mode and the "2" Modes I can deal with just about anything, and do as well or better than any other VLF in extreme ground - for an induction balance/continuous wave machine. My personal belief is that a detector designed specifically for nugget detecting using Multi-IQ and optimized coils would be the ultimate induction balance/continuous wave nugget machine. My main frustration with Equinox has been the coils and Minelab has refused to allow for more coils than exist so far. The 11" when maxed out gets knock sensitive in bad ground, but I can deal with it. The open spoke design is poor for rough ground with stubble. The 6" coil is more stable, easier to handle, and more sensitive to the tiny bits. I would kill for a solid 6" x 10" coil as exists for the Gold Monster but so far no luck. The Equinox with 15" coil I am pleased with as it offers ground coverage ability not offered by some of its rivals, like the Gold Monster. The open coil design makes more sense there to keep the weight down, and it is surprisingly sensitive to small gold for a large coil.

Gold Nugget Detecting with the Minelab Equinox



I personally would still give the Gold Bug 2 the nod for being the best for micro gold, especially in mild soil, but results compress dramatically in extreme ground and the Gold Bug 2 is not nearly as clear a winner under those conditions. It actually does not do well on larger gold in the worst ground as the extreme high frequency has poor penetration, though I have not determined where the crossover point is. I do not think the small extra edge on the tiniest gold is worth giving up the depth on the larger gold, and so my feeling overall in my bad ground is that I am better of with the Equinox than Gold Bug 2, and while I miss it I do not regret selling it. In general most people are better off with the Gold Bug 2 due to its simplicity... you have to really know the Equinox well and how the controls interact to get best results from it. The article above goes into those details. I set the Equinox up as best as possible for all metal detection with as many filters removed as possible. I have remained generally quiet on the Equinox and nugget detecting outside a couple articles as it is a machine radically different than what most prospectors are used to and the coils are problematic. I don't want to give everyone the impression they should dump what they have and get an Equinox. But it has become my "VLF" of choice for most nugget detecting when not using the big guns. The Goldmaster 24K sticks around due to it's stable performance with the 6" concentric and its XGB ground balance does seem to handle some hot rocks efficiently. The closed coils also help me a lot in deep grass and sticks. And there are times I prefer a machine with replaceable batteries. Between the two my "VLF" prospecting needs are well covered.

Always a pleasure to hear from you Tom. Best wishes to you and yours for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Thanks for the data.... Steve. If I'm prioritizing things correctly...… it looks like your primary wish for the EQX (for prospecting) is.... a smaller/elliptical coil. Secondarily..... would be: better handling of hot rocks. Have you tried (downloaded) the 2nd software upgrade....with F2 options? If so..... is there a more learnable delta (with hot rocks) in your dirt conditions...… with the various spectrum of settings?

Because the EQX was intended to be a mid-line......and mid-priced detector....,,,,,, is the rationalization as to 'why' there were (are) only 3 coils offered. It is a GP (General Purpose) detector...… with a really good Prospecting Mode; yet, not 'dedicated' to (exclusively) Prospecting; hence, the limited coils.(Plus...….. we're on to bigger/better things...… exhausting our time/manpower/money/labor/resources).

Steve...…. I hope to read your article shortly. Merry Christmas!

Deleted as it went off topic

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2019 11:11AM by Sven1.

I just get a kick out watching Southern, Ziggy, and you promote that turd of a detector... Hope that doesnt bother you to much. You cant give a vista gold gain away these days....and all who buy the Vista X will suffer the same fate when they figure out they have been duped by the free detector club...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2019 05:39PM by calabash digger.

Pretty interesting comments and I'm learning stuff.

I have added challenges as I'm doing this in turf. So on top of the ground minerals, hot rocks and decomposing iron, I'm also dealing with non-ferrous gold range trash spread about by lazy people and uncaring lawn mowers.

But as you said, Tom.....one good stone pays for the extended effort.

HH
Mike

Mike...……. just for data collection...… I did something crazy. I weighed both (combined) of my most recent in-the-wet ring finds (2 gold wedding bands). Then...…. I weighed the gold …. from the last micro-jewelry hunt (a 14K yellow gold stud earring). The mass of the gold from the wet..... was 127X heavier than the mass of the gold from the micro-jewelry hunt.

Wet-sand jewelry value = $207 ………………………….. (worth of gold)
Dry sand jewelry value = $475 …………………………... (worth of stone)

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the data.... Steve. If I'm prioritizing
> things correctly...… it looks like your primary wi
> sh for the EQX (for prospecting) is.... a smaller/
> elliptical coil. Secondarily..... would be: better
> handling of hot rocks. Have you tried (downloaded)
> the 2nd software upgrade....with F2 options? If so
> ..... is there a more learnable delta (with hot ro
> cks) in your dirt conditions...… with the various
> spectrum of settings?
>
> Because the EQX was intended to be a mid-line.....
> .and mid-priced detector....,,,,,, is the rational
> ization as to 'why' there were (are) only 3 coils
> offered. It is a GP (General Purpose) detector...…
> with a really good Prospecting Mode; yet, not 'ded
> icated' to (exclusively) Prospecting; hence, the l
> imited coils.(Plus...….. we're on to bigger/better
> things...… exhausting our time/manpower/money/labo
> r/resources).
>
> Steve...…. I hope to read your article shortly. Me
> rry Christmas!

The problem Tom is not hot rocks... Equinox offers many more tools than other detectors like the Gold Bug 2 if hot rocks are a problem. That is one of the advantages of Equinox. I would rate the main issues that need addressing as follows:

1. Lack of appropriate coils
2. Minelab not making those coils
3. Minelab blocking others from making those coils

My two most desired coils would be a closed 6” x 10” elliptical as pictured above (or open web with optional closed scuff cover - the new Vanquish coil is nice and would do the trick) and an 8” - 9” round for in water use to split the difference between the existing 11” and 6” coils.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2019 06:31PM by Steve Herschbach.

This was some of my "first" gold nuggets with the original Gold Bug back in the late '80's.
I sent this picture and a story to Fisher... 50 good reasons to buy a Gold Bug! ( Never did hear anything from them LOL). The big piece was just over 5 ounces.
Most of the gold was found in hot, red, sticky Arizona clay. The rest in caliche. My friend using a GPZ is finding a lot of deep gold there now in the open areas and washes with the EQX 800 sniffing out the pieces in the trashy areas.
I don't know how to make the pictures larger.

Can definitely confirm this, which is one reason no matter what detectors I own I will still keep my F75. Guys from my detecting club nicknamed me Lord of the Rings because of how many dirt rings I pull up each year. This pic was one hunt with the F75 in a soccer field. I love my Equinox and use it more than most, but it sucks for working over sports fields for jewelry where random junk in the gold range lies. [photos.app.goo.gl] What's funny about this is I actually took the first picture in the field when I thought I was capped out at 3 for the day. [photos.app.goo.gl]

Rob in (ca) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My standard F75 with the stock 11 inch coil does v
> ery well on very small jewelry, (must dig low numb
> ers) as I’m always finding stud earrings in the t
> ot lots & other small jewelry. I have used other
> detectors with adjustable higher frequencies and j
> ust end up spending 30% of my hunt time digging pi
> eces of chain link fence & other junk metals, whe
> re the F75 hated these junk Targets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 04:02PM by ChrisMD.