Rick...

You say the AQ will eclipse...... or even obsolete previous BEACH machines.... like the Nox since its the newest and greatest. Im assuming the AQ will without a doubt be better on the wet sand and in the water from what we have seen and been told...... BUT that leaves a lot of dry sand. Will this machine out perform the Nox in the dry sand? Thats over half the hunting area on most beaches and they can be pretty trashy. It doesnt have a TID screen. Many of us use an Xcal even for dry sand hunting.... it has no TID....BUT its tones are VERY distinct. A single or couple of tones can be done... if you have the dig it all mind set.... but i dont see it eclipsing a TID screen machine like the Nox in the dry sand that many have gotten used to and now pays less than half for. Those same people who have that dig it all mind set likely use a PI already in the water. Thats not many down my way and most of those PIs dont have a 12.5 coil. Tom once said ..... you have 100 to 1 bad to good targets in the dry sand...... 20 to 1 in the wet and 10 to 1 in the water. But even with the 10 to 1 ration many choose a VLF. So the primary/most productive use of the AQ will be wet sand and water is my guess. Time vs pay out. Im not trying to be argumentative, but hopefully realistic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 11:18AM by dewcon4414.

for dry sand and money search
it is best to use a quick machine to identify certain coins
the Deus is the best / dry

on the other hand, if you search, a gold ring
on a donate area / dry sand / a park / a field
AQ in reject mode will be the fastest to find it

always remember
that it was designed with objective salt = to be the best on gold in any situation ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold

The guiding principle of the AQ’s development has been that deeper is better in all cases - IF the depth is accompanied by great silence.

I have posted before that the AQ prototype I had for a few days in 2018 hit a nickel at 17 - 18 inches in wet black sand at San Diego and that my Equinox managed 7 - 8 inches. What I didn’t mention was that got essentially the same results in dry sand in a dry desert “wash” near my house in Gold Canyon Arizona.

The AQ’s depth in wet beach sand is not Because the sand is wet, it is IN SPITE OF the fact that the sand is wet and even black.

It may be that white quartz sand would allow VLF’s to operate at their maximum in ground depth, but I somehow don’t see the Nox or any of the others hitting nickels at more than 15 inches under any circumstances. Time and lots of users in the field will tell if I am correct.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You say the AQ will eclipse...... or even obsolete
> previous BEACH machines.... like the Nox since its
> the newest and greatest.

That’s the cut to the chase assessment I have been waiting for from somebody with extensive use of both the Equinox and Tarsacci. Thanks!

Dew/Rick...….. I do not have a Impulse. (To answer your previous question). Nor have I heard anything from FTP/Carl/Tim/Mike.

Steve...…. yes, I would instantly know if the Impulse is the trump-card.... over the EQX and MDT...….. and to accuracy levels of 1/10'th of an inch.

I am certain I already know the answer for my high mineral beach locations. Low mineral white sand will be a more complex equation however as VLF type detectors perform at their best and no matter how good the Impulse is the VLF type units will have better discrimination. It will come down to a judgement call of just how much extra depth is worth digging how much extra trash. I suspect as always it will depend on the location. But for black sand laden beaches I have no doubt the AQ is going to slay the alternatives.

Don't know why so much hostility towards Rick. Like someone else said, he's a normal detectorist who is under no obligation to report anything regarding this detector.

I’m hanging in there - barely

closest jpmorgan chase bank

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Im certainly not trying to be hostile. I hunt mostly where this machine should shine...... but i see it more complimenting my other machines. Theres going to be DEEP layers this machine may hit..... that means more targets of both types. So i hope it disc well since it doesnt have multi tones. OR we might just find on some beaches even this machine wont get down to the gold. A lot of people like i said because of price, the TID screen, tones, and having bought the Nox as a multi use machine for weekend work..... likely wont be the buyers. Also a lot more people recent drop hunt trying to cover a lot of beach. But based on their speed down the beach are just skimming for targets about 8". This machine will change that ...... but we need to slow down to take full advantage of its depth. Deeper IMO is better..... IF you can ID those targets some what. If deep was all we wanted we wouldnt be using anything but a PI. I hunt in AM and believe the MDT and Nox both get pretty decent depth even in the water. Currently down here there is a lot thats been moving around and even more iron since no one is digging it.....and has been for years.

Steve...…… (as you probably know) …….. I have a internal/self-imposed "PI usage rule". I will never use a PI (on the beach)…….. unless one minimum condition is met. That being: The PI must ascertain a minimum of 40% greater depth over the best VLF/IB/SMF unit. The reason is (somewhat scientifically) based off of the fact that ….. the 'trash-to-treasure' ratio lies deep/strongly within the boundaries of this 40% rule. With a PI...… you will dig a lot more trash...……,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and the only way for it to parallel the success-rate of a VLF ID unit...…… is to have/ascertain about 40% greater depth performance...….. so as to 'offset' the pains/labor of a All Metal PI unit.
BUT...……. now with the advent of 'some' (unspecified/indeterminate) ""partial ID"" abilities of the Impulse PI (and ID capabilities to undetermined/unspecified depths)...……… this 'alters' my base-rate imposed measuring standard...…… ALSO...… to a indeterminate (not figured out yet)…… percentage-ratio. I can only hope the Impulse will take my "imposed percentage/ratio standard"..... and blow it out-of-the-water. (Pun not intended).

As far as EQX vs MDT...…….. the MDT (in general) ascertains about 2" greater depth in real-World conditions.... over the EQX. Now...………….if you add black sand to the wet-salt...…….. the depth advantage of the MDT is far greater than the EQX. (Because the MDT is not quite a VLF platform).
"How" the MDT will compare to the AQ...in wet-salt black sand...….. is 'indeterminate'...….. as it is purely speculation at this moment. In theory...…. the PI should perform much better. The MDT 'holds on' to reasonable ID at depth.... in wet-salt black sand. "How" the AQ will 'hold on' to reasonable ID at depth... in the wet-salt black sand...….. is ALSO 'indeterminate'. BUT...……. (my speculation) is...….. it 'should' do very well.

Rick. Love your photo...…….and...……. it is fairly representative!

Steve that last post was spot on. JAG....... that was a bold statement about finding a gold ring in a PARK or basicly any area faster than some machines we currently use. Trash in a park can be over whelming...... especially with a 12.5 coil which will have to process so much material and from what i understand disc is a large "notched" area with a single tone. Its not iron in a park thats the issue its generations of aluminum and other non-ferr targets. I used to field hunt a lot where old home sites were..... i preferred them over a house of the same age still standing ... just because of the layers of newer trash you had to sift thru and often there was a lot of soil moved around these homes putting it even deeper. Gold has such a wide range..... foil to around a penny. Newer machines like the Nox where people can really cherry pick have significantly improved the number of gold rings being found in areas such as a park. I have my fingers crossed you are correct in what you said.... because if the AQ has that good of disc we will indeed see a lot more gold even from those recent drop guys. THIS would change what we know about hunting with a PI greatly.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve that last post was spot on. JAG....... th
> at was a bold statement about finding a gold ring
> in a PARK or basicly any area faster than some mac
> hines we currently use. Trash in a park can be o
> ver whelming...... especially with a 12.5 coil whi
> ch will have to process so much material and from
> what i understand disc is a large "notched" area w
> ith a single tone. Its not iron in a park thats
> the issue its generations of aluminum and other no
> n-ferr targets. I used to field hunt a lot where
> old home sites were..... i preferred them over a h
> ouse of the same age still standing ... just becau
> se of the layers of newer trash you had to sift th
> ru and often there was a lot of soil moved around
> these homes putting it even deeper. Gold has suc
> h a wide range..... foil to around a penny. Newe
> r machines like the Nox where people can really ch
> erry pick have significantly improved the number o
> f gold rings being found in areas such as a park.
> I have my fingers crossed you are correct in what
> you said.... because if the AQ has that good of di
> sc we will indeed see a lot more gold even from th
> ose recent drop guys. THIS would change what we k
> now about hunting with a PI greatly.

I was wondering the same thing Dew, I don't water hunt, so, this machine wasn't something I was considering buying. With that said, after reading what Jag said, my ears perked up. Like you, I'm wondering how in the world it could manage to "cherry pick" gold from the pulltabs, foil, beaver tails, aluminum slag etc. I'm somewhat skeptical in it's ability to see thru non-ferrous trash and still hit gold.

If most of the information about the ability of this machine is correct we should really see some impressive finds this year. There should be some interesting stories about conditions, depth, and the amount of gold found. Cant wait to see some of the videos of it being used in the salt water...... but hopefully by then ill also know if it will be the only machine i need for beach hunting. I currently have the Xcal, Nox, and MDT....... things just keep getting better.

Yes. I too...…. am having a hard time wrapping my head around: Finding a gold ring in a ocean of aluminum trash...… with a large 12.5" coil.
Has a true revolutionary paradigm-shift (unsuspectingly) transpired??? (((Or are we in for a large: let-down...…. via "expectations" being set too high))).

Heres what im realistically looking for out of the AQ..... a few more inches of depth, its ability to disc out iron, runs exceptionally quiet in the salt water, and will pick up gold to include small gold BETTER than we do now in the salt water. From what i can tell ill be digging more trash since there isnt anyway to CHERRY PICK in disc and we should be getting down to layers were currently arent. To me .... thats moving forward and i should see an improvement in my gold finds for this year if sand conditions dont hamper this. Until i get it i can only speculate based on my previous years of hunting experience and what ive used. Obviously those using it currently have more time on a PI and there results would be better than mine. I have no expectations beyond those mentioned...... so let me be surprised because i dont think im going to be disappointed.

Correct me if I may be wrong but isn't it obvious the reason Tom D. was not included as part of the Impulse team or didn't receive one? My guess, as simple as it may be, is that he is working on competitive projects and the Fisher boys are just being cautious.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct me if I may be wrong but isn't it obvious
> the reason Tom D. was not included as part of the
> Impulse team or didn't receive one? My guess, as s
> imple as it may be, is that he is working on compe
> titive projects and the Fisher boys are just being
> cautious.

Tom is a well known enough entity with a past history with Fisher that he can be trusted. Other companies have approached him despite knowing that history with Fisher. I myself have done testing for Fisher while in the same time period doing testing for other Manufacturers. The companies need to have confidence that you are going to live by the NDA's and not cross pollinate information. They need to view you(Tom etc) as being interested in furthering the Technology/Hobby while relying on your experience and in some instances technical knowledge.

Can things go awry? Yes they can, as the falling out of FTP with Bill Ladd is a cautionary tale which did not end well.

As I view it, it would be someone like Dimitar that would have the most to be concerned about Tom divulging information to another manufacturer since it is a start-up operation and his IP is crucial to a singular product.

Hi BeachBum. Testing and designing are not in the same realm. And I wouldn't put Bill Ladd in the same category as NASA Tom. I will agree that Tom D is and can be trusted, he's a man of integrity. Have a wonderful new year, BB.

Could it be the 7us that lets it see the gold over other objects? Seems that is the number everyone wants to use to find gold with a PI. In my area beaches I dig lots of deep round aluminum trash. Sounds great and gives a solid ID with the MDT 8000. Some id in gold area some in the upper area depending on size. I will be waiting for this to be out and reported on for awhile along with having to be a used model before I spring for a 2000 plus MD that will allow me to dig even deeper trash.
Tom it has been my experience that with the very large number of deep, faint tones that sound and read iron( I looked and dug for them for the first 6 months I owned it) it is iron. Yet to see not even one time it was wrong. I use mixed mode and only been playing with AM in resent times. I am not experiencing any more depth with AM than with mixed and I get more info from the audio. I cross test them to see.

ShovelNose……. if anything...…… I am REALLY glad that the MDT is properly ID'ing threshold-depth iron..... as 'iron'. No false signals chased there!
True...…. there is no additional depth to be gained with the MDT in ID mode (vs All Metal Mode); yet/however, …… on my beaches...… All Metal Mode runs slightly smoother; subsequently, allowing me to run a bit higher gain. And THAT'S where the additional depth is being realized.

Still...….. the MDT appears to be limited in depth.... to about 15" (max) on a Nickel in the wet salt...…. with reasonable ID. IF the AQ were to ever come to fruition...….. and...….. it does somehow genuinely achieve 18" on a Nickel.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., it will (without fail) be a major game-changer. Hands-down.

I could be wrong, but i think Tom started this site much like GEOTECH.... to pass on and generate scientific, technical and methodology knowledge...... to help us learn the ins and outs of these machines hitting the market. Several companies have allowed him input and incite into their new tech and machines...... which hes been able to share to a point by his testing....and in the long run advance the hobby. We have learned a great deal that the manual and those doing marketing or just simply using the machine cant/hasnt been able to provide. Toms been left out of the loop on this one, even thou initially Fisher seemed like they wanted to include him in the process. With marketing being done here on this machine ..... i dont believe hes received the (heres a term) quid pro quo. Or .... maybe people simply are no longer interested in technical reporting? Im not certain those currently marketing it will be able to give us even semi-tech knowledge. I cant think of two many recent machines Toms had insight to that we didnt benefit from a knob twist here or there based on his inclusion.

Well, all the comments positive and otherwise are fine, but this thing has to WORK for me - thinking of sending my AQ back. I live on a golf course and it didn’t pick up any of these.



Happy New Year,

and it IS a joke - In the 10 minutes since I posted this I have had two offers to buy it - it’s not for sale.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 10:50PM by lytle78.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve...…… (as you probably know) …….. I have a in
> ternal/self-imposed "PI usage rule". I will never
> use a PI (on the beach)…….. unless one minimum con
> dition is met. That being: The PI must ascertain a
> minimum of 40% greater depth over the best VLF/IB/
> SMF unit. The reason is (somewhat scientifically)
> based off of the fact that ….. the 'trash-to-treas
> ure' ratio lies deep/strongly within the boundarie
> s of this 40% rule. With a PI...… you will dig a l
> ot more trash...……,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and the only way f
> or it to parallel the success-rate of a VLF ID uni
> t...…… is to have/ascertain about 40% greater dept
> h performance...….. so as to 'offset' the pains/la
> bor of a All Metal PI unit.
> BUT...……. now with the advent of 'some' (unspecifi
> ed/indeterminate) ""partial ID"" abilities of the
> Impulse PI (and ID capabilities to undetermined/un
> specified depths)...……… this 'alters' my base-rate
> imposed measuring standard...…… ALSO...… to a inde
> terminate (not figured out yet)…… percentage-ratio
> . I can only hope the Impulse will take my "impose
> d percentage/ratio standard"..... and blow it out-
> of-the-water. (Pun not intended).
>
> As far as EQX vs MDT...…….. the MDT (in general) a
> scertains about 2" greater depth in real-World con
> ditions.... over the EQX. Now...………….if you add bl
> ack sand to the wet-salt...…….. the depth advantag
> e of the MDT is far greater than the EQX. (Because
> the MDT is not quite a VLF platform).
> "How" the MDT will compare to the AQ...in wet-salt
> black sand...….. is 'indeterminate'...….. as it is
> purely speculation at this moment. In theory...….
> the PI should perform much better. The MDT 'holds
> on' to reasonable ID at depth.... in wet-salt blac
> k sand. "How" the AQ will 'hold on' to reasonable
> ID at depth... in the wet-salt black sand...….. is
> ALSO 'indeterminate'. BUT...……. (my speculation) i
> s...….. it 'should' do very well.
>
> Rick. Love your photo...…….and...……. it is fairly
> representative!





I totally agree with this analysis
and Impulse AQ is well within 40%

hence my many golden targets
passing very often in the footsteps of other prospectors
using material (Obsolete) I tease



of course i dig a lot of waste
at this depth you touch layers of sand
who are virgin // of any prospecting
so a lot of target
and heavy targets / simple density result
on beaches well exposed to swell
little aluminum / the sea sorts by weight ....

regarding the difference in audio tone
between aluminum and gold
it is quite simple
identical length
a gold ring and a pulltab

the sound on the pulltab gives the impression
to be much faster (at identical speed of balyage)

and the audio curve suddenly drops on aluminum
she stretches on gold

it takes a little experience
and take care to lift the coil
at the acquisition limit, the different
tone / double sound on iron
are more marked and easier to discern
too close to the target / the sound is saturated

the 7us has a lot to do with this result
as well as the cadence, pulse (PPS) pulse per second
which is higher on AQ, than any
other PI / high voltage

(I would have liked even faster
but it's impossible (for now)
consumption, would be, in very strong rise
and temperature problem on the pcb ...)

-----------

another place that few of you mention
and where the difference will be equal day and night

volcanic sand beaches
here black sand volcanic
6 days of AQ testing / Indian Ocean island
a very good gold report for six days







a lot of waste = normal
here these are really beach / virgins of detections
since 99% of detectors do not work
on this sand
only one do it
his name is: Impulse AQ




if after that you don't know
or spend your next vacation
think hawaii…

So
I wish you a happy new year 2020



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold

That sure is a large pile of annular gold. L.E. JAG...…. thanks for sharing!

I still retain some principles-of-physics concerns about said (AQ) platform. As product development continues...….. with potential fruition on-the-horizon...……. several underlying gut-feel concerns progresses to the forefront. . . . . . . . and these concerns are based off of (a nearly 20 year old) GoldScan-5 platform.

* The GS-5 would never Ground Balance to Florida's higher-than-normal salt concentration that is held-in-solution..... due to higher tropical temperatures. Sooooooooo……. the GS-5 had to be configured/reverted back to AquaStar-II "All Metal" Mode; the only Mode that would function in Florida...…… which defeated the entire premise of the GS-5's primary attribute: that being ID circuitry. (((This was also verified by Bill Crabtree..... and with multiple GS-5's))).

* Traveling further North (to different States)…… the GS-5 would Grnd Bal "per design". But...….. whilst in this Ground Balanced ID Mode...….. Gold targets that ID'd in the Zinc penny range (or higher)....were either NOT detectable.....or..... at a severely reduced depth level (ID error). Gold targets that were in the older style aluminum 'square tab' range....could be detected; yet, at a very marked reduced performance/depth level.
Recently...…. I have found several rings that ID'd in the Zinc penny-to-Copper/clad dime range. They were primarily 10K, 14K & 18K signet/class rings...…. with one of them being a 24K ring. It is EXACTLY because of these specific finds (and the increasing popularity/volume/circulation of 22/24K jewelry)…….. that I would NEVER want to miss these targets/finds...……. that has me questioning myself: Is my 'gut' going to force me to continuously hunt in All Metal Mode...……. so as to NOT miss these dramatically different time-constant High-Conductor (not necessarily high Karat) targets. Or...….. does the AQ have duel-stereo headphones with the premise of the electronic platform having All Metal audio in one ear..... and ID Mode in the other ear...……..,,,,,,,,,,, so as to NOT have to keep switching Modes with each/every detected target.

* PI's are excessively/incredibly sensitive to iron. . . . . to include small/tiny iron. This makes me 'question' (any PI and) the AQ's ability to handle magnetic (iron-based) black sand. IF the wet-salt black sand is linear; yes, the time-constant hysteresis decay ramp-down is linear...….. and can be 'managed'; yet/however; if the wet-salt beach has striations of non-linear magnetic/iron-based/black sand...….. this can pose a varying/unpredictable time-constant.

* And then there's non-annular diamagnetic gold jewelry...…. with virtually zero hysteresis; subsequently, posing virtually zero permeability. There IS no time-constant hysteresis decay time-curve; subsequently: NOT detectable with a time-domain based device.

* To develop a stable 7uS capable coil..... is one thing...…. (Do'able). But then to develop a 7uS coil that is impervious to varying temperature time-curves...… and real-world banging/bashing from the GP; is yet, another complexity. (Do'able; yet, poses a bit of a 'mass production' tolerance challenge). I have been hunting with PI's for just over 3-Decades...…….. with the last two decades being with AquaStar-II on a heavy basis...…. and 4 coils have 'tolerance drifted'. . . . . requiring replacement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 02:21PM by NASA-Tom.

* You're right the goldscan 5C in the state of the model was not at all suitable, it was necessary before it can be used modified and further modified ... But here we are talking about a system that no longer has nothing to see....

* Yes the sensitivity to iron is increased it is for this reason that it is so much easier to eliminate it.

All metal detectors based on an impulse principle depend mathematically on the ‘exponential decay’. This exponential decay is multiple, it is a series of exponentials nested in each other.(Ground effect + target + etc). Each exponential decay corresponds to a time constant.
Each target has its unique time constant. I mean by target, rings, gold nuggets, ground effect ...

Target size is indeed an issue when looking at this for the first time.
But once the size of the targets is removed from the equation (yes, this is easily doable) the time constants are homogeneous and identifiable without drifts.

* The current limit reached is 5 us with strong current in the coil on salt water. Below that it is possible up to 2.5 µs but not on salt water. It was the coil that took the most time to design. There is a lot of labor that cannot be achieved by machine. No drift greater than 0.1us

Thanks Alexandre. It's a bit more 'warm-fuzzy'...…. knowing that (at minimum) you are 'versed/basked' in this awareness/knowledge.

6th-Root exponential decay is rather interesting to 'capture'.....,,,,,,, especially if you are capturing it in multiple-sampling-periods.,.,.,., during each individual Xmitter "off" cycle; subsequently running this multi-snapshots time-constant decay data through a comparator. Half-sine & sawtooth make for interesting (incremental) analysis. Greater signature-to-hull emitter correlation constants could/can be ascertained.

Achieving high-current through a 8uS (or less) coil is a bit of a challenge ……. especially if intent is to be mass-produced. (Eric would: hand-wound)! Minute ambiguities would instigate unwanted out-of-parameter flyback issues. Even the color of the coil would impose instability via irregular temperature delta time-curve NON-constants.

So are the coils mass produced? I noticed you said size was removed from the equation....... does that mean theres no modulation to tagets? A quarter and a can lid sound the same? I was concerned as well about those gold targets in that high K and penny range ...... i saw my self passing up one simply because i heard it in AM then it would disappear in Disc. Im assuming this machine has been tested neck deep in the water as well as shallow and wet sand? I would like to have seen a video of that 15 gram gold ring dropped in that black sand which wasnt picked up by the Xcal. Thats mind blowing to me since ive used the Xcal a good bit. So do you think we will see a smaller coil? There are several advantages to it for water hunting. Where is the sweet spot for PPing? Im certain its been mentioned....... but what is the length of the shaft fully extended and whats it made of?

dewcon4414 Wrote:

I expect you were asking Tom, but here’s my shot at answering your 7 or so questions
-------------------------------------------------------
> So are the coils mass produced? depends on what you mean by “mass”I noticed you sa
> id size was removed from the equation....... does
> that mean theres no modulation to tagets?No it doesn’t mean that A quar
> ter and a [/color]can lid sound the same? they don’t I was concerned
> as well about those gold targets in that high K an
> d penny range ...... i saw my self passing up one
> simply because i heard it in AM then it would disa
> ppear in Disc. Could happen, Im assuming this machine has been
> tested neck deep in the water as well as shallow a
> nd wet sand? Probably I would like to have seen a video o
> f that 15 gram gold ring dropped in that black san
> d which wasnt picked up by the Xcal.A similar test was in a video I posted about 2 years ago - I will post it again Thats mind b
> lowing to me since ive used the Xcal a good bit.
> So do you think we will see a smaller coil? YEs, they already announced that Ther
> e are several advantages to it for water hunting.
> Where is the sweet spot for PPing? Don’t knowIm certain its
> been mentioned....... but what is the length of th
> e shaft fully extended and whats it made of?thesame as the CZ 21, some kind of Reinforced plastic

Here’s a link to my Vimeo account where the video (with my titles in English) is found - the Minelab fun starts at about 3 minutes.

[vimeo.com]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 10:35PM by lytle78.

Can someone tell me what's up with all the yellow tape on the housing? Is it to do with the Souria connector or is it to hold the knobs in position? Just curious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2020 02:18AM by Carolina.

My guess is that they were asked to do something to obscure details. I don’t really know.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold