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FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....

Posted by Aaron 
FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 02:46AM
As you know, we’re all eagerly anticipating the release of the AQ/Impulse. However there are quite a few of us that would feel A LOT more confident in the new product if Tom were able to test one.

Will Tom be receiving a Aqua Manta BEFORE the general product release?

After all, doesn’t Tom deserve one after he put his technical input into the AQ, AND loaned you his AQUASTAR for a whole year after he SHOWED you how much BETTER the AQ NEEDED to be?

C’mon FTP, make things right with Tom and we’ll all be happy!

We are looking for and would appreciate a DIRECT response from FTP.

For those who are in agreement, PLEASE EXPRESS AND SUPPORT IT!

Friends of Tom D.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 10:34AM by Aaron.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 08:40AM
The official name of the detector is the Fisher Impulse AQ, not Aqua Manta.

If I worked for FTP, I'd reply back....We have no detector called Aqua Manta. smiling smiley

I think Aqua Manta was just a nickname given by the inventor years ago.

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 08:58AM by Badger in NH.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 10:32AM
At this point im surprised we havent seen any marketing data released. Carl suggested Feb could be the month..... thats 5 or 6 weeks out. We have some info that Alexandre gave us and some guestimates as to depth..... and a lot of speculation. I think Joes (ole beach nut) has provided more info off EU websites than anyone. Difficult to make a $2500 decision ... thats kind of why ive been pushing for Tom to have one to test/review. Someone i know well told me in an Email........ maybe its not a bad thing to be number 100 in line. At this point reliable marketing data and trusted testing reviews is what we need...... i doubt there will any changes to the electronics.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 02:45PM
I stated my thoughts (and that's all they are is thoughts not necessarily truths), on the 'why' Fisher didn't include Tom D. making the Impulse.

Not that they didn't want him to be involved......he had embarked in a venture helping design the MDT 8000 and they made a business decision to not intentionally or unintentionally mix up designs and or discoveries....that could get very messy and put a stop to it all.

So, it's one of those situations where we don't know enough to have a say as to whether or not Tom and Fisher FT get involved on this project.

Tom will get his hands on one when they come on the market.

I say,...... none of my business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 02:45PM by ozzie.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 03:38PM
I have no knowledge of or influence in whatever FTP’s plans are for testing by Tom.

If Tom or anyone else received a PROTOTYPE to test, I would expect that he would be bound by a non-disclosure agreement to keep his observations confidential. This would apply even AFTER product release - to whatever extent FTP required. The reason for this is simple, issues raised during prototype testing of any detector may or may not get resolved in the final production configuration. The details of the back and forth of identifying and rectifying such issues is often something that the manufacturer would not like to be disclosed. This type of testing is carried out by “development testers”.

If Tom were to receive a PRODUCTION machine to test PRIOR to product launch, I expect that it would be subject to an EMBARGO, meaning that he would be free to release his observations/review only after the embargo was lifted - at the time specified by FTP - this is normally at or just prior to the item being available for sale. This type of testing is carried out by “marketing testers”

This is how stuff normally works and illustrates the difference between development testers and marketing testers.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 03:41PM by lytle78.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 05:57PM
Rick, I guess since your the spokes person for FTP, that is
THEIR response. Okay fine.
If FTP’s concern is that Tom would not abide by his NDA, that’s just ridiculous. Toms been working with other company’s prototypes for years (INCLUDING FTP), and those of us who’ve been to his place and hunted w him will all tell you, he keeps ALL that stuff close to his vest!
Again, it all makes no sense, with all his experience....FTP asks for Toms help, then cuts him out.

Another thing that does not make sense Rick, that other forum members are looking at “crossed-eyed” is somebody who living in a desert, getting a AQ????

Dude,,, c’mon man, what are you going to do with it? I mean you no disrespect however it makes no sense! I understand the first thing your gonna wanna do is make that long drive to San Diego.....it’s gonna be even LONGER drive back if you don’t find anything! And what are you going to tell the forum...

Rick...if you have enough “pull” to get the first AQ....AND become a unique dealer for FTP....... surely you have some say-so to get one for Tom, and even if you can’t you should at least loan yours when you get it, after all you OWE it to him!

At this time....we can expect another spectacular AQ post,
(nudge-nudge, wink-wink LeJag)

Aaron



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 06:02PM by Aaron.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 06:18PM
Aaron, thanks for your comments - here’s my response

I am NOT a spokesperson for FTP, although I have high hopes of becoming a dealer (for the Impulse line mainly/only). As far as FTP owing or not owing Tom something, I have no information about his involvement with the AQ other than what has been publicly disclosed here regarding Carl Moreland’s visit to Tom last year and using Tom’s Aquastar.

Nothing in my post said or implied that Tom would violate an NDA. Quite the opposite - I am ABSOLUTELY SURE HE WOULD NOT. The result of that is that us forum members would likely never read anything about his experience testing a PROTOTYPE. I know of no manufacturer who lets their testers fully disclose prototype test results before launch of production hardware - and usually not after that either. If he gets one now, it will be a production model and his testing of it will yield information which I expect FTP would WANT him to disclose - but probably not until the AQ is formally announced with expected ship date and price.

As far as it being somehow WRONG for them to sell ME the first unit that they needed to sell in 2019, I am not a tester for this machine. Given how many folks seem to be upset that I got it and not someone else - Tom, or perhaps themselves...Not my problem.

Having been personally attacked however (not by you) on this forum over this issue, I am unlikely to post any details of my use of it here. “The juice ain’t worth the squeeze”. There are some folks who want to pick a fight as opposed to asking thoughtful questions or contributing their own insights or experience.

I will likely let LE.JAG and perhaps Alexandre to carry the ball from here on out on posting details.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 06:21PM by lytle78.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 07:13PM
I got a new toy and I am not gonna share it because you guys hurt my feelings . I am gonna take my ball and go home...….SO lets just keep having these USELESS speculation threads on the Impulse about what it will do or will not do ! eye rolling smiley Anybody can post a pic of a detector with 50 gold rings.....(I did not attack you personally) . I said something is off with this whole deal and guess what I still say something is not right.....I am guessing it is a performance issue.....If this detector would do what they are claiming it can do they would be idiots not to post it on social media with a supposed release coming in FEB.

Rick this has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen on a metal detecting forum...DO YOU KNOW how many personal attacks I have had to put up with? You wanted to be in the spotlight now quit your crying and get on with it !
I will pay for shipping if you want to send it to me to run in my garden...
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 11:31PM
Lytle, so you want to be a dealer and sell us these new detectors, but you are not going to tell us your results with the machine? That the...…….?
Are you going to become a dealer for the Cygnus -1x as well ? drinking smiley
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 11:33PM
Waaaaah---FT didn't ask me to be their lead man on the Manta and I am PO'ed---and nobody will send me one---Waaaaaaaah.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 11:45PM
Possum, I have no results to report - busy with other stuff like making a living selling real estate in Gold Canyon AZ - call me if you come this way!

Seriously, I am not a beach hunter with thousands of hours of experience and my comments beyond that the AQ I have is apparently (according to the designer - Alexandre) up to spec. This based on a hour and a half skype video call with him last week.

I leave it to others with serious beach “chops” to praise or damn. There will be ample time for that.

My machine will be used to teach me - slowly - the interaction of the controls, the subtle variation of the audio response and all the rest of the stuff that I need to know to be a reliable resource for my eventual customers.

I am unlikely to send it to anyone - the one person I decided might be ideal from the point of view of his vast experience in beach detecting and testing and modifying beach detectors - and documented good sense - has suggested that I “cool my jets” and let things progress,

As far as the Cy-1, I know nothing about it and intend to stay knowing nothing about it until we all know a lot more about it.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 06, 2020 11:49PM
Lots of spinning going on here.
So I gave you know who an out for not giving us the skinny on their unit.
Only problem with this is,,,you know who said the very same thing in another thread (before supposed attack) —- likely I will not give any info on my unit until official product launch.

Well,
I don’t have a problem with you know who having the unit.
My problem is it has been turned into a TEASE here of sorts.
Why even tell us you bought unit?
And then act like you do.

Been better off just staying quiet about purchase unit.
I think folks here would have understood later if you chose to tell us what happened with your buying unit to help company with trademark issue.
Since product was not officially launched by company.

All I did was challenged what was written here. Not attack.

Just my honest opinion based on what has transpired here.
Geotech has given firsthand info about unit progress.
Thanks Geotech.

Btw having multiple running threads about the same unreleased unit doesn’t help imo.

Kudos to Mr Dankowski for starting and keeping Tarsacci thread intact here. I think this helped folks out a lot with unit.

Cheers.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 11:54PM by tnsharpshooter.
OBN
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 12:06AM
Those who have there doubt's wait...how simple can that be.

I know I sure did not get all jacked out of shape because someone else has one, I took what I had and made it work for me.



The way I see it if your not finding anything now the "AQ" is not going to help you out.......

2020......Gold Rings....23 .......Silvers ...18
OBN
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 12:26AM
lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> My machine will be used to teach me - slowly - the
> interaction of the controls, the subtle variation
> of the audio response and all the rest of the stuf
> f that I need to know to be a reliable resource fo
> r my eventual customers.
>
> I am unlikely to send it to anyone - the one perso
> n I decided might be ideal from the point of view
> of his vast experience in beach detecting and test
> ing and modifying beach detectors - and documented
> good sense - has suggested that I “cool my jets” a
> nd let things progress,
>

AMEN!! Life is to short to be stressed about something that is a Hobby! In time,.... all will find it's place.

2020......Gold Rings....23 .......Silvers ...18
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 12:29AM
Joe in some ways you are right. 3’ of sand with very little trough ... it may not matter the machine. Only one question Joe why didn’t you make my machines work like yours lol? You da man... I’m just amazed by that old gold. I’m pretty comfortable with the 3 machines I now have as well. It ain’t all about the machine.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 12:39AM
OBN,

Nice looking bowl of Golden Cheerios!

Joe




OBN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those who have there doubt's wait...how simple can
> that be.
>
> I know I sure did not get all jacked out of shape
> because someone else has one, I took what I had an
> d made it work for me.
>
>
>
> The way I see it if your not finding anything now
> the "AQ" is not going to help you out.......

“Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction.”
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 12:46AM
OBN, that bowl of gold sure looks better then a bowl of SOUR GRAPES.

You are truly amazing. I am still in awe. HH jim tn
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 02:49AM
I go out of State for a few days...….. and look what happens to the forum!
(((What an interesting thread)))!

1st = THANKS to all of those of whom 'value' my input/posts/opinion(s) and testing methodologies...…. and are fighting for me: in front...… and behind the scenes...…….. and all unsuspectingly.....on my behalf! (This comes as a bit of a surprise).
2nd = Cabin fever = anxiety/energy/emotions
3rd = OBN/Joe...…. Time is short (and a very finite resource) ….. and you sure are NOT letting it slip by. Your relentless resultant is more than just merely: commendable!
4th = Rick: calabash & TNSS might be brash; yet, their point(s) pose undeniable/substantial validity. It does indeed seem a bit strange that you have been touting "Manta" for years...…. have been wanting one for years...… and have been posting about it for years. Then...….. you finally get one. Then..... you go mum. And...… you are to be a primary dealer of this AQ. Multi-contradictory (paradox) ensues. You gotta come clean Rick! I have to admit: this even strikes my 'fancy' as: -- "strange". The very premise of this forum is based upon "technical data". You certainly have the right to be/remain "mum"; yet, hungry (cabin-fever/stir-crazy) folks like/respect/want your AQ synopsis.
5th = Guys...…… it is a corporate decision (namely Carl & Tim)……… as to weather they send me a AQ..... or not. Your 'hunger/push' certainly is 'weighted'; yet,...… ultimately...… the ball is in FTPs hands. I am certain they are 'aware'. I am also certain there is 'rationale' behind their thought-process...….for what ever direction they choose.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 03:16AM
When I get time - to spend more than the 30 minutes or so I have spent with the AQ - then PERHAPS - I will have something to say about how it performs, what I have learned about its operating characteristics, etc. But precisely because I am in Arizona, much of that would be pointless, Actully, most of my time has been spent trying to take decent pictures of it so that Alexandre who can do good stuff with photoshop can make clean “product shots” out of them - even he doesn’t have a production unit yet.

Folks can piss and moan all they want about why I got one and they didn’t - but frankly, that’s not my problem. Complain to Fisher.

I have never posted an in-depth review of a detector on any forum in the more than 10 years I have participated on this and other ones. I don’t propose to start now.

If that is somehow a mark against me - so be it. Whatever I have to report based on my use of this machine, I will share in due course - somewhere.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 03:53AM by lytle78.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 07:36AM
Rick, I'm sure many would like to know how the Impulse performs in your Arizona conditions. It would certainly be a plus for the detector if it worked reasonably well on land. If it can ID non-ferrous an inch deeper than the Equinox in dirt, it will make a great relic machine for certain situations.

.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 07:50AM by Badger in NH.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 02:28PM
Ok Lytle, I'm flying out. Put a few bottles on ice. I gotta see if FTP just sent u a box of rocks as a new years joke! Enjoy your day.!
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 02:37PM
Let me know your flight details - I’ll pick you up at the airport if you fly to Williams/Gateway - if you fly to Sky Harbor, you will have to make your own way to Gold Canyon. There’s a decent motel about a mile from my house. I’d put you up, but my cat doesn’t allow possums in the house!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 05:24PM
Mr Kempf, I do like your sense of humor. smileys with beer
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 09:46PM
My opinion is that Tom Dankowski dis-engaged from FTP when he helped Nokta develop the Impact. Furthermore, his work with Dimitar and the MDT-8000 places him at direct odds with FTP and the AQ project. In addition to that his active, ongoing work with Minelab (almost as a employee if you read his posts) places him even further away from FTP IP.

I'd be surprised to see him engaged on the AQ project at this point.

Just my opinion.
Mike
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 09:57PM
My thinking as well, Mike. HH jim tn
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 07, 2020 09:58PM
Maybe....however,,, Tom had already been working with Nokta and MineLab for years when they asked Tom for his help on the project, then cut him off.
IMHO....it’s politics and ego.
If it was up to Carl, Tom would still be involved and testing one...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 10:11PM by Aaron.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 08, 2020 11:34AM
Tom keeps pushing the companies he works with for better depth, unmaking and TID. IMO his efforts are paying off. Fisher believed (i think) they had a machine ready to hit the streets......2 years later tells us they didnt. IF they hadnt discussed this with him and reverse engineered his machine .. would we already have seen it? So Toms input seems to have had an influence. If i remember correctly Tom took the blame for the Nox delay as well..... did we get a better machine? Every ones talking to him about DEPTH... thats no secret as to what people think they want. Its easy to just through a larger coil on the machine now days and say there ya go.... depth. But thats now working quit as well now. Tom has mentioned during the discussion of the MDT how a couple of inches can make a HUGE difference.... and it has.... and they did it with an 11" coil. I think we can see his work with all these companies have greatly improved the machines we are getting. Toms goal always seems to be move the hobby forward .... he may have saved us old guys years of waiting on some of these improvements. Not a lot of bells and whistles just to put a machine out ..... we are getting quality improvements. In some way i have to believe hes influenced this. I get ... what you are saying thou..... yes this is business.
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 08, 2020 11:38PM
Some of you guys are way too invested in these soap operas. But, OK, I'll tell ya what I know, which ain't much as I spend little time in El Paso these days. Mostly working out of Oregon.

I took an early proto to see Tom D way back when, over some mild objections within FTP. It was important to me to get his perspective on where things were at. And, BTW, it was such an early proto that it was in a "plastic shoe box," a long long ways from production. Tom & I did some comparisons with his hot AquaStar and the Impulse fell just short. As I recall, Tom said the Impulse was the 2nd best PI he'd ever seen. He then loaned me the AquaStar to take back and do further investigations. I did, & later returned it to him.

Since then we've been working on improving the Impulse and also doing a full-up mechanical design for it. The mechanical design and the manufacturability have turned out to be far more problematic than expected. Ergo the constant delays. This is why manufacturers don't want to pre-announce anything until it is absolutely ready to hit the shipping dock. Remember the Goldbug? Beach Hunter ID? And, worst of all, the Cazador?

At the present Tom is slated to get an Impulse to test. I don't know when because there are limited units available and I have nothing to do with the scheduling. I hope I can visit when he gets it. I did suggest to Marketing that better communications with potential field testers would not hurt us in any way.

Meanwhile, release heavily depends on our QA manager Murphy Slaw, who is a cantankerous old bustard. It'll happen when it happens, and not a day sooner.

Stay tuned for the next episode of "All My Detectors."
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 08, 2020 11:49PM
Thank you, that’s ALL we’ve been wanting to know!
Re: FTP....will you PLEASE let us know....
January 08, 2020 11:58PM
Hahahahaha, that's what happens when you have one major detector release once every couple years average amongst all the key players. People will buy it just to spend money on something new. Which is why every time someone has some homemade accessory they're selling on the forums it sells like hotcakes. Oh, what is that, a new way to mount your pinpointer somewhere, I'll take four in each color...for me and all my hunting buddies!

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of you guys are way too invested in these soa
> p operas. But, OK, I'll tell ya what I know, which
> ain't much as I spend little time in El Paso these
> days. Mostly working out of Oregon.
>
> I took an early proto to see Tom D way back when,
> over some mild objections within FTP. It was impor
> tant to me to get his perspective on where things
> were at. And, BTW, it was such an early proto that
> it was in a "plastic shoe box," a long long ways f
> rom production. Tom & I did some comparisons with
> his hot AquaStar and the Impulse fell just short.
> As I recall, Tom said the Impulse was the 2nd best
> PI he'd ever seen. He then loaned me the AquaStar
> to take back and do further investigations. I did,
> & later returned it to him.
>
> Since then we've been working on improving the Imp
> ulse and also doing a full-up mechanical design fo
> r it. The mechanical design and the manufacturabil
> ity have turned out to be far more problematic tha
> n expected. Ergo the constant delays. This is why
> manufacturers don't want to pre-announce anything
> until it is absolutely ready to hit the shipping d
> ock. Remember the Goldbug? Beach Hunter ID? And, w
> orst of all, the Cazador?
>
> At the present Tom is slated to get an Impulse to
> test. I don't know when because there are limited
> units available and I have nothing to do with the
> scheduling. I hope I can visit when he gets it. I
> did suggest to Marketing that better communication
> s with potential field testers would not hurt us i
> n any way.
>
> Meanwhile, release heavily depends on our QA manag
> er Murphy Slaw, who is a cantankerous old bustard.
> It'll happen when it happens, and not a day sooner
> .
>
> Stay tuned for the next episode of "All My Detecto
> rs."
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