Looks like Whites is going down...

It's sad if it's true. If they failed it's was on multiples factors .

I wasnt happy with the aftersale, sent a white tdi sl to be repaired to scottland, came back with the same issue and 270euros less in my pocket (i complained at the first bill which was twice that , and replied they made a mistake on the price, wtf ?!), they did changed the pcb and the issue was just coil taking water...
How could they fail on this one ?!

I would have been happy to try the v3i but the price never got lowered (that not the only brand tho that stick to the same price for more than 10years).

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> calabash digger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TNSS stated as to why he thought they went under
> .
> > As for Whites coming here to get ideas well migh
> t
> > have helped them...... Notice Nokta Makro comes
> he
> > re to get feed back on their machines! The probl
> em
> > is TNSS challenges the status quo around here...
> ..
> > .
>
> There’s a BIG difference between companies coming
> here for feedback and coming here for advice on ho
> w to run their multi-million dollar businesses....
> .

I actually run a successful multi million dollar business......Guess what had to make BIG changes over the last 5 years to keep up the new competition that moved into the neighborhood!
Just because someone has a slow southern accent doesnt make them a dumb A..

Guy states his opinion and all you elite guys attack him same ole song and dance yhall always do here.
Whites marketing and management sucked period! That why they are gone.....

Could someone have helped them on this forum? Sure could not have hurt!

You see the same happening in the UK, folk used to be proud of their country, what it manufactured and bought the products.
Nowadays the narrative has changed, to many left wing snowflakes have killed the Patriot, made it hip to take a knee, pull down statues and openly state they hate their country!
Not me, i buy British when i can, and when i can't i then buy from country's that are our allies and of the same moral standard, feck the rest of them lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 12:00PM by ghound.

Having worked for a manufacturer doesn’t mean they would necessarily have the reasons why a manufacture closed their doors.

Ever hear of the word progressive.
Got news for folks.
Some claim to be progressive, guess what?
They are regressive or status quo at best.
Been keeping up with current events.
The tell all.

You use this same lame mindset in a business guess what will likely happen?

Look,
This is not hard.
Go back and think about how autos were sold or where they were sold.
Even small towns had auto dealerships. Towns of like 3500 folks. Younger folks likely didn’t see these.
Not today.
Town has to have around 30,000 plus population for a dealership.
Remember how structured White’s were with dealers crawling everywhere as well as merchandise,
Even First Texas caught on and sold their detectors differently.

Lot of the clues for detector manufacturers were being bore out with other types of industry.
All they had to do is be paying attention.
At least ask themselves the question why are they doing this.

You see that first rate video done by Garrett that debuted lately talking Apex?
Ever see one of these from you know who?
Naw I didn’t.
Instead what I saw was videos showing 6 ft drop tests, quarters in bananas, young lad fishing a thrown detector out of a lake, gent doing push-ups while another looks like a slave driver.
Totally grand marketing videos - NOT!

Surprising part is and I’m not seeing this really form any manufacturer.
Mail permits can be gotten to cut postage rates.
Folks register their equipment a d usually include home address.
Be nice for a manufacturer to mail out a letter and get feedback on their product and give their site info so a person can join and share experiences.
Am I asking too much from say a manufacturer for example where I bought over $2,000 worth of their merchandise?
I don’t think so.
Getting first hand likes and dislikes of a companies product might go a long ways in improving product, establishing a more personal relationship with a client, and most importantly they may buy another future product. I do know this. Lots of folks wanted to be treated like people, not like cows at a stock yard. Or where they think the company thinks all they are are a number.

These AQ limited units.
Rick you may consider doing this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 12:23PM by tnsharpshooter.

addicted to big heavy steel lunchbox machines is their problem ,they couldnt move with the times

TN - thanks for the segue..

My “charter” and the whole rationale for having a sole source for the AQ Limited launch was to ensure that all relevant feedback from the 100 or so users would be captured and evaluated in order to “nourish” the development of other devices in the Impulse series.

Here is what Tom Walsh, President of First Texas wrote in his “Disclosure” which each buyer is asked to read and confirm their acceptance of.

“ Fisher is offering the Impulse®-AQ Limited to a select group of experienced early adopters who want to experience design and technological innovation in real-time, as it unfolds. The Impulse®-AQ Limited is not a prototype or pre-production metal detector; it is the first edition to a new product line of Impulse® technology.”

Each of the AQ Limited buyers is chosen carefully to maximize the chances of their giving relevant feedback. They will be followed up by me on a private mailing list. There is already a private FB page for them, as well as a private sub-forum on another forum. All of this feedback is reported by me weekly to Tim Walsh, the President of First Texas and his Marketing and Product Development management.. Yesterday’s report showed 8 units sold and 52 names and details on the waiting list. That’s more than half of the planned production of around 100 units

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:03PM by lytle78.

duplicate deleted

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:02PM by lytle78.

Well from that alone it doesn't seem Like Fisher is going anywhere soon.
Didn't they just hire Carl Moreland? Why do that if you are going to just let the company die? A lot of know it all's on this Forum who don't know much.

Kinda of funny Rick ...are they gonna do a IMPULSE 2 for land users and go thru this whole charade again. I can hear it know we are developing a new impusle 2 for land hunting and BTW you can pay us $1499.00 to help us develop our product...

THEN after you paid to help us get it right we will sell you another one for $2500.00...comical
OH yeah their is only one dealer and if your not KISSSING his ARS you aint getting one!!!

Comical.. mark my words fisher is next....Tell them to come over here and get some advice on how to run their business... might save them!

Anybody with the least BS skills can see thru this
FLIMFLAM!
I got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale and you can only buy it thru me I am the SOLE PROPRIETOR!..

A not unexpected response From the CBD.

And Harold - Carl Moreland moved from Whites to First Texas in 2014.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:05PM by lytle78.

Whites ... I have 3 Whites .. excellent detectors .... and MXT All Pro can still kill any competition ..

You don't have to worry about Fisher, everything is on the right track ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:21PM by EL NINO.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TN - thanks for the segue..
>
> My “charter” and the whole rationale for having a
> sole source for the AQ Limited launch was to ensur
> e that all relevant feedback from the 100 or so us
> ers would be captured and evaluated in order to “n
> ourish” the development of other devices in the Im
> pulse series.
>
> Here is what Tom Walsh, President of First Texas w
> rote in his “Disclosure” which each buyer is asked
> to read and confirm their acceptance of.
>
> “ Fisher is offering the Impulse®-AQ Limited to
> a select group of experienced early adopters who w
> ant to experience design and technological innovat
> ion in real-time, as it unfolds. The Impulse®-AQ L
> imited is not a prototype or pre-production metal
> detector; it is the first edition to a new product
> line of Impulse® technology.”
>
> Each of the AQ Limited buyers is chosen carefully
> to maximize the chances of their giving relevant f
> eedback. They will be followed up by me on a priva
> te mailing list. There is already a private FB pag
> e for them, as well as a private sub-forum on anot
> her forum. All of this feedback is reported by me
> weekly to Tim Walsh, the President of First Texas
> and his Marketing and Product Development manageme
> nt.. Yesterday’s report showed 8 units sold and 52
> names and details on the waiting list. That’s more
> than half of the planned production of around 100
> units


So I’m not all wet after all. Lol

Backwoods marketer out.

Yes and the key is Carl Moreland and
Dave Johnson are still at FT. Whites had no engineers on staff anymore. Could they go out in 5-10 years? Of course but so could the mighty Minelab or others it can happen fast. And as long as they keep making the 'old outdated' CZ-3D this grumpy old man will be Happy. Ha!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:45PM by Harold,ILL..

[www.whiteselectronics.com]

[www.indeed.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 02:54PM by tnsharpshooter.

I was a Whites user for years. Started with the 2500 then EagleII then Spectrum and finally Xlt. Got out of hunting for a while then started back. Bought a v3i but found I couldn't set reaction time fast enough to suit me. I then tried macro and finally settled on the Equinox 800.The main reason for selecting foreign built machines was light weight and fast reaction time.I am proud Garrett is trying to catch up to other makers with the Apex and have preordered one.I love the USA but will not buy inferior products for more money when foreign manufactures have superior products. If not for the Japanese we would still be driving cars that were wore out after 100,000 miles.Free market allows for newer, better, and cheaper products period! Personally I prefer a Whites trx pinpointer and current have two.

youdig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's sad if it's true. If they failed it's was on
> multiples factors .
>
> I wasnt happy with the aftersale, sent a white tdi
> sl to be repaired to scottland, came back with th
> e same issue and 270euros less in my pocket (i com
> plained at the first bill which was twice that , a
> nd replied they made a mistake on the price, wtf ?
> !), they did changed the pcb and the issue was jus
> t coil taking water...
> How could they fail on this one ?!
>
> I would have been happy to try the v3i but the pri
> ce never got lowered (that not the only brand tho
> that stick to the same price for more than 10years
> ).


one thing with whitey! you want quality? you got it, and..you paid for it!
virtually "hand built" detectors, and they didn't give 'em away!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I think Whites is still a very viable company and will be soon bought by someone willing to put in the hard work the old owner obviously didn't want to do. They have the latest surface mount circuitboard technology machine, they have a lot of good tech assemblers, and the in house tech ability is second to none, they have or had machinists on hand for building jigs etc for individual detectors line production needs. Complete coil building including housings, they seemed to lack in Engineering dept, and in Marketing dept, since they were not selling low to mid grade detectors at big box stores like Fisher and Minelab and Garrett do, that was a big mistake, that could be easily corrected. I hope to see the company bought out soon.

Cabelas has spot on their site for White’s. Click on days sold out. Did cabelas ever sell any White’s machines?
Notice Garrett, Fisher p, etc reflect in stock when viewed.
[www.cabelas.com]

Amazon seems has some models in stock.
[www.amazon.com]

No listing for White’s it seems as bass pro.
This company and cabelas are connected.
However if you call and get info from one of them, don’t necessarily believe as I have called the other and was a le to obtain some merchandise.
[www.basspro.com];



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 08:44PM by tnsharpshooter.

As mentioned, Whites has been struggling for years. Jimmy Sierra........Whites fired him back in the Spring of 2016. I'm sure there is more to the story. Jimmy Sierra was very loyal.

A shame. Cheap imports killed it.

Good thing FT hired all these key (Whites) engineers....if not, they would be going at a slower than (current) snail mail's pace. That's the way it feels when comparing them to Nokta.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 09:01PM by Arkansas.

Here’s input from Fla dealer who deals in Garrett, Minelab and I believe Fisher models.
It was being discussed on friendly forum about certain detector popularity.
This dealer weighed in Oct 2019.
What they said. Comes from post #77 this thread/link.
[metaldetectingforum.com]

Quote
flphil;3155413
The original poster asked what detector is selling the most.
At pro used to be my best seller but know I sell 29 EQ for every one Atpro.
I’ll sell any detector it’s my job but the EQ has been a real easy sell here in FL. Seems it’s salt water performance is a important selling point.
HH, Phil

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 09:09PM by tnsharpshooter.

Here’s results using advanced search. All dates from beginning of forum creation time wise.

One search using White’s in search on this forum. Resulted in 142 pages
Forum won’t let me paste correct link of search here for some reason.
Again White’s in search box, all words selected all dates yields 142 total pages of info.


One using Minelab. Resulted in 388 pages.
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Remember Minelab can be mentioned in the white’s search results and Vice versa. Other manufacturers model said too.

So over double closer to nearly 3x the pages here for Minelab - foreign manufacturer versus domestic manufacturer.

Going back to 2014/2015 time frame through today
VLF only detector models.

White’s has released 6 new detector models I believe.
MX Sport, MX-7, Treasure Pro, Treasure Master, Goldmaster 24k, Goldmaster GMX Sport

During same period Garrett has released 4 new models, this doesn’t count the Apex coming very soon.
Ace 200, Ace 300, Ace 400 and At Max

Minelab I believe has released 5 new models with EQX models being the older. And they aren’t that old.
Equinox 800, Equinox 600, Vanquish 340, Vanquish 440, Vanquish 540

Fisher has released 3 VLF models in this period, 4 if we count the F75+ model.
F11, F22, F44 and F75+
Technetics has released 7 models in this period.
T-2 Classic
Liberator
Gamma 6000
Delta 4000
Patriot
Minuteman
Alpha 2000
Note seems Patriot model may be replica of older F70 model. So a name change basically. I will still count as new model here. I can’t aunfor sure if some of the other modles listed are indeed copies of earlier models with model name change done.

Xp has released one model the ORX, yet remember Deus has has updates during this period.
Special note about Xp. Although they released only one detector model this period technically. This is misleading. Why? Xp released Hf coils and the model x35 coils in various sizes. Doing this actually was like buying new detector as performance in iron and detector ability to recognize smaller nonferrous was enhanced.

Nokta Makro
Going to have to do more research.
I will list each model under each manufacture above soon.
Will start listing the Nokta Makro models released so I can keep up with numbers.
Simplex
Kruzer
Kruzer multi
Anfibio
Anfibio multi
Nokta Fors Gold
Makro Gold Racer
Fors Gold+
Makro Racer
Makro Racer 2
Nokta Impact.
Now to be clear some of these models released before Nokta Makro merger. So they are all grouped together above.
I will go up and include the new Technetics models right under the Fisher models.


Pulse induction metal detector units released during this period.

Minelab
GPZ 7000

Fisher
AQ Impulse limited (limited availability currently)
Technetics
None

White’s.
They released another TDI with slight alteration to name of their older released model,
TDI-SL high Q

Garrett.
None, ATX model released in 2013 though.

Xp
None

Nokta- Makro
None

Tarsassi has released one model MDT-8000 model.
It uses VLF frequencies yet behaves like a hybrid Pi/VLF detector.
It’s classification could be a definite standout.


So what about pinpointers released by the manufacturers above? During the same period. There were both VLF pin- pointers released as well as pulse induction pin-pointers.

White’s
Bullseye TRX pinpointer (VLF)

Garrett
Pro-pointer AT (VLF)

Xp
MI-6 (VLF) - can be used as stand alone as well as being integrated with Deus or ORX
MI-4 (VLF) - stand alone use only

Fisher
F-Pulse (PI)

Technetics
Tech-point (PI)

Makro-Nokta
Pulse dive (PI). This pinpointer can be bought in 2 different configurations.
Nokta pointer (VLF)
Makro pointer (VLF:

Minelab
Pro- find 35 (VLF) -has some disc capability tone wise for ferrous
Pro- find 20 (VLF)
Pro- find 15 (VLF)

If any info above is incorrect just point it out to me and I’ll Change if necessary,

So folks can look at list above and see who was doing what. Remember work done on these products, part of at least was done before the time period noted above.

It is a fact in the USA a super high percentage of population lives on the coast line or within an hours drive. This makes odds of using a detector on a salt water beach environment higher than use on non salt water beach environment.
So detector sales of detectors that perform better in this environment should be stronger.
As long as price is not too high.
Many folks here can afford about any detector model really listed above.
However folks getting into detecting or folks on more limited budgets likely might buy one of the cheaper detector models.
It is not all about overall performance for these folks,
This forum with its input/post likely doesn’t paint what the majority of detectorist nationwide or even world wide thinks.
Every detector sold new someone makes money. The name of the game.

Different manufacturers use what they think is the best ways to market their product.
And internet, Facebook, even cell phones (since lots of folks have unlimited long distance calling plans) are used to gain info for a purchase.

Detector model fads can take place, where actual performance may not even be the culprit for purchasing. I want one cause my bud has one. I want one cause my boyfriend has one. I want one cause my husband has one. You get the picture.

Competition is fierce one can see by my list.

Lots of products rolled out, more by some less by others.

Folks undoubtably have choices.

If anything the list e paints a good pic of the industry overall.
Granted some manufacturers in the world are left out, I acknowledge I am not familiar with all makes and models of detectors.
There is a detector manufacturer in Poland, one in UK at lest and others in the world.

Have a nice evening.



Edited 52 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2020 12:39AM by tnsharpshooter.

Arkansas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone in this Thread worked / has worked for Whites manufacturing ??

I was Engineering Manager at White's for 6 years.

Well Bluntshooter.

Here is a post of yours in August 2012 And I quote.

The new Whites vz4040 I think your thinking Minelab comes with 10 frequencies, 3 coils 6"/11"/18"/ color screen ,gps, clock. smart phone. burgular alarm. waterproof, wireless headphones, capability in line probe.standard. cup holder. ash tray.snake bite kit.PEPPER SPRAY, and toilet paper storage. Why in hell would you need a Pepper Spray it looks a bit suss to me.

Well what detector company would want to take any notice of you as a managerial adviser posting such crap as above. You need to get off your arse and get out there and do something constructive instead of letting your fingers do the walking and try to teach yourself how to use the detector you are using instead of picking other peoples brains. O and look where Minelab come from good old OZ . WE Show the way others follow.

Regards and maybe you might have a nice day its debateable..












,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2020 03:56AM by pinpointa.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes and the key is Carl Moreland and
> Dave Johnson are still at FT. Whites had no engine
> ers on staff anymore. Could they go out in 5-10 ye
> ars? Of course but so could the mighty Minelab or
> others it can happen fast. And as long as they kee
> p making the 'old outdated' CZ-3D this grumpy old
> man will be Happy. Ha!

cz's still getting it done! 30 year old tech!
deadly instrument in the hands of someone who knows
it well!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arkansas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone in this Thread worked / has worked for Wh
> ites manufacturing ??
>
> I was Engineering Manager at White's for 6 years.


thank you for your valued input.as a matter of curiosity,
what is really happening with whitey?.i am so "bummed"
over this!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Many of us grew up on Whites detectors. we developed an admiration for their product. Sad to see them go.

My opinion.....The hobby isn't what it was. Great members are gone. One recently mentioned on this forum. Magazines are gone. Forums are gone. Manufacturers are gone. Hunting places are gone. Even the code of ethics is lost.

I sure don't have the passion i once had. Coming home with a pocket of silver was at one time a real possibility. Treasure hunter? That term doesn't apply to 9 out of 10 swinging a detector today.

The good old days were the good old days. I appreciate the fact I lived a small piece of it. Those that did the same know I speak the truth.

At one time we didn't brag about the money the money we spent. We used what we could afford. In fact we didn't argue about detectors. There was so much to find we didn't have to.

TN...Quite the list. Not sure of the dates. Nokta-Makro had an early pinpointer then a waterproof one. The Nokta Fors Core and Fors Relic were in there somewhere. FT had the F/pulse pinpointer. Minelab also had a couple pinpointers. Thanks....never understood the T2-Classic, is this selling a recycled product? Maybe like the new Atari classic. Prior to the LTD and Plus models, both T2 and F75 have had many versions, minor revisions not highlighted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2020 12:10AM by Arkansas.

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arkansas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone in this Thread worked / has worked for Wh
> ites manufacturing ??
>
> I was Engineering Manager at White's for 6 years.


Thanks for any input