Looks like Whites is going down...

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coinspader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well even though the Whites company is gone ther
> e
> > are enough Whites detectors floating around that
> y
> > ou will still be able to get a hold of one for y
> ea
> > rs to come, they may not be the latest and great
> es
> > t but they still find good stuff and some of the
> m
> > are very good. I am happy to have my V3i and I w
> il
> > l probably grab myself an MXT before long. White
> s
> > build quality is top notch and I don't mind buyi
> ng
> > them used because of that.
>
> I hate to be a Debbie Downer but what about repair
> s?
> I was wanting a MXT-PRO as love the Tone I.D. and
> always a fan of the metal box Whites construction
> but am now a little gun shy? But then again I have
> a Tesoro Golden uMax that has been rock solid so m
> aybe worrying for not?

Centerville electronics are going to continue to repair whites stuff out of warranty and In warranty

88junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harold,ILL. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > coinspader Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Well even though the Whites company is gone th
> er
> > e
> > > are enough Whites detectors floating around th
> at
> > y
> > > ou will still be able to get a hold of one for
> y
> > ea
> > > rs to come, they may not be the latest and gre
> at
> > es
> > > t but they still find good stuff and some of t
> he
> > m
> > > are very good. I am happy to have my V3i and I
> w
> > il
> > > l probably grab myself an MXT before long. Whi
> te
> > s
> > > build quality is top notch and I don't mind bu
> yi
> > ng
> > > them used because of that.
> >
> > I hate to be a Debbie Downer but what about repa
> ir
> > s?
> > I was wanting a MXT-PRO as love the Tone I.D. an
> d
> > always a fan of the metal box Whites constructio
> n
> > but am now a little gun shy? But then again I ha
> ve
> > a Tesoro Golden uMax that has been rock solid so
> m
> > aybe worrying for not?
>
> Centerville electronics are going to continue to r
> epair whites stuff out of warranty and In warranty


Is this the place?
[www.centrevilleelectronics.net]

Geotech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arkansas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Geotech Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Arkansas Wrote:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > -----
> > > > Anyone in this Thread worked / has worked fo
> r
> > Wh
> > > ites manufacturing ??
> > >
> > > I was Engineering Manager at White's for 6 yea
> rs
> > .
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any input
>
> There's a lot I could say, and maybe one day I wil
> l. But the bottom line is, White's had problems, a
> nd those problems were well-known before I joined
> 12 years ago. I kept saying the company was not go
> ing to survive unless the family sold it to someon
> e who was passionate about the hobby and the brand
> . I was, but there was no interest. When I realize
> d things were not going to be fixed, I moved on. T
> hat was a sad day for me.


I wont push for further information. Thanks for what you felt comfortable mentioning. It's not that Whites didnt have good Engineers...they had a bunch. It's just seems like the company was hindering workers skill-gift to the point of pushing them out. Power struggle...even back to the George Payne days. Just my opinion. Thanks. Happy Fathers Day to everyone, by the way.

Also Whites was paying a living American wage with benefits trying to compete with third world countries paying cheap labor. Even the Mighty Minelab moved the Etrac assembly to Malaysia awhile back. You can't tell me that did not have something to do with it also.

Whites, paying a living American wage...like Garrett and First-Texas. Minelab, Australian wages....then manufacturing moved.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not surprised. At all.
> Wonder how warranty of items still under warranty
> will be handled ? If they are handled.
>
> The counterfeit instruments they are referring are
> :
> Garrett Apex
> Xp Deus
> Xp ORX
> Nokta Makro simplex.
> Minelab Eqx models.
> And so on.
>
> How come others aren’t going out due to counterfei
> ts?
>
> Not buying the reason. Sorry White’s. And not bu
> ying your products either.
>
>
> White’s never got out of the tin can mentality and
> or got into the digital age.
> They had their chances but blew them.

Any proof of these models being counterfeited or is it simply a vivid imagination with a pinch of hysteria?

Garrett Apex's
XP Deus
XP ORX
Nokta Makro Simplex
Minelab Equinox models

If I were one of these manufacturers I would consider contacting you so you can show me these fakes or at least stop you from spreading malicious rumors which could cost future sales -

You slander XP - Garrett - Minelab - Nokta-Makro products, then as a passing shot you then imply that those model that YOU mentioned are the ones Whites are referring to -

Can you back any of this up?

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coinspader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well even though the Whites company is gone ther
> e
> > are enough Whites detectors floating around that
> y
> > ou will still be able to get a hold of one for y
> ea
> > rs to come, they may not be the latest and great
> es
> > t but they still find good stuff and some of the
> m
> > are very good. I am happy to have my V3i and I w
> il
> > l probably grab myself an MXT before long. White
> s
> > build quality is top notch and I don't mind buyi
> ng
> > them used because of that.
>
> I hate to be a Debbie Downer but what about repair
> s?
> I was wanting a MXT-PRO as love the Tone I.D. and
> always a fan of the metal box Whites construction
> but am now a little gun shy? But then again I have
> a Tesoro Golden uMax that has been rock solid so m
> aybe worrying for not?

read somewhere that centerville electronics is the repair depot that sweet home
is sending people to.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Arkansas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geotech Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Arkansas Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Geotech Wrote:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > -----
> > > > Arkansas Wrote:
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > --
> > > > -----
> > > > > Anyone in this Thread worked / has worked
> fo
> > r
> > > Wh
> > > > ites manufacturing ??
> > > >
> > > > I was Engineering Manager at White's for 6 y
> ea
> > rs
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for any input
> >
> > There's a lot I could say, and maybe one day I w
> il
> > l. But the bottom line is, White's had problems,
> a
> > nd those problems were well-known before I joine
> d
> > 12 years ago. I kept saying the company was not
> go
> > ing to survive unless the family sold it to some
> on
> > e who was passionate about the hobby and the bra
> nd
> > . I was, but there was no interest. When I reali
> ze
> > d things were not going to be fixed, I moved on.
> T
> > hat was a sad day for me.
>
>
> I wont push for further information. Thanks for wh
> at you felt comfortable mentioning. It's not that
> Whites didnt have good Engineers...they had a bunc
> h. It's just seems like the company was hindering
> workers skill-gift to the point of pushing them ou
> t. Power struggle...even back to the George Payne
> days. Just my opinion. Thanks. Happy Fathers Day t
> o everyone, by the way.


interesting analogy! if what you say is true, then it sounds like whites just didn't want to pay,
and qualified engineers disappeared.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

rustic charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not surprised. At all.
> > Wonder how warranty of items still under warrant
> y
> > will be handled ? If they are handled.
> >
> > The counterfeit instruments they are referring a
> re
> > :
> > Garrett Apex
> > Xp Deus
> > Xp ORX
> > Nokta Makro simplex.
> > Minelab Eqx models.
> > And so on.
> >
> > How come others aren’t going out due to counterf
> ei
> > ts?
> >
> > Not buying the reason. Sorry White’s. And not
> bu
> > ying your products either.
> >
> >
> > White’s never got out of the tin can mentality a
> nd
> > or got into the digital age.
> > They had their chances but blew them.
>
> Any proof of these models being counterfeited or i
> s it simply a vivid imagination with a pinch of hy
> steria?
>
> Garrett Apex's
> XP Deus
> XP ORX
> Nokta Makro Simplex
> Minelab Equinox models
>
> If I were one of these manufacturers I would consi
> der contacting you so you can show me these fakes
> or at least stop you from spreading malicious rumo
> rs which could cost future sales -
>
> You slander XP - Garrett - Minelab - Nokta-Makro p
> roducts, then as a passing shot you then imply tha
> t those model that YOU mentioned are the ones Whit
> es are referring to -
>
> Can you back any of this up?


You missed the joke.
Those I listed are not counterfeits. But I think they are large part of White’s problem. Called competition.
Cheers.

Arkansas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wont push for further information. Thanks for what you felt comfortable mentioning. It's not that
> Whites didnt have good Engineers...they had a bunch. It's just seems like the company was hindering
> workers skill-gift to the point of pushing them out. Power struggle...even back to the George Payne
> days. Just my opinion. Thanks. Happy Fathers Day to everyone, by the way.

White's has a long history of missed opportunities, especially with engineering. Four companies were formed by people who were unhappy at White's: Bounty Hunter, Compass, Teknetics, and Discovery. Key talent like George Payne, Dick Hirschi, Rick Maulding, Mark Rowan, and David Johnson were either not retained or (sometimes) fired. After I left Engineering turned into a revolving door as people came and went quickly.

Bruce Candy has been lead engineer at Minelab for 35 years now. Garrett has Bob Podhrasky, who has been there a remarkable 50 years. That kind of long-term continuity is critical in such a specialty as metal detector design where it can take many years for a person to develop expertise. That was something White's simply did not understand.

I realize its none of my/our business what happened at Whites. It's just sad to think of Whites ending......a brand to which so many got their metal detecting start. Thanks

A lot of interest in WHITES world wide lets hope it can be saved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2020 07:16AM by pinpointa.

If White's has little or no office and warehouse staff and Engineers left and a antiquated distribution system, doesn't seem like much left to buy except perhaps the name.

Although successful and a good name in the industry at one point in time, in reality, not much left to buy today, it would seem. HH jim tn

The truth as I see it.

Minelab staggered White’s with their Explorers and Etrac model.

Then came Xp for the next round of fire with Deus released in USA.

Then the knock out punch came with Minelab’s Equinox.

Hard for a woman imo to swing the Sherman tank V3 series models.

Xp crushes Euro sales for White’s higher end models.

A 2.2 pound vs a machine that was double the weight. Duh.

Seems White’s last stand was to try and go the gold route making what they did.
Minelab is a mighty big name in the regions where gold is searched for.
So all the GPX and GPZ owners why wouldn’t they be using Equinox as VLF ? Or the gold monster.
Oh yeah I do think Minelabs success with PI units helped them with their VLF sales of EQX and Gold Monster in say Africa.

So a wall was created by Minelab, Xp, and yes even Nokta- Makro, and Garrett and First Texas.
A wall White’s can’t get across.
There is only so much market share to go around.
And what little market white’s can muster ain’t enough.

Really plain as day if you have been following last 8 years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2020 10:16AM by tnsharpshooter.

Well Bluntshooter,,,,,You have been all over this before there is nothing new you are telling us Whe all have eyes and ears but some people just cant see past there nose. Get a crappin life and wake up to self you are just banging your head up against the brick wall which is damanging the way you think. Keep doing it and you soon run out thinking power. You have been in this detecting hobby for just a flash in the pan compared to my self and many others on this forum,

If your posts had something that would help other detectorists thats what forums are for, But all you can do is slam down all of our throats what you can see in front of you. And thats completely stuff all, Pages and pages of complete nothing , Words absolutely fail me.I think you need to put a few hundred hours in to the detectors you have and really learn what they are telling you. Then you can post some of your finds and show us that you can use a detector.

.The counterfeit instruments they are referring are
> :
> Garrett Apex
> Xp Deus
> Xp ORX
> Nokta Makro simplex.
> Minelab Eqx models.
> And so on.


And you class that as a joke well first and foremost you need to learn a little word called composition If it was a joke you need to class it as one cause a cant see any laughs in it its just not thinking is the problem.




Hoo Roo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2020 01:01PM by pinpointa.

Maybe Whites thought that it was better to close than to send production to China. A lot can be said about Whites detectors and the technology they used but they can still find good targets on good sites.

Not enough money in. Too much money out.

Solution for the family owners (who likely bear a good part of the responsibility for the money out part) - Stop spending on producing that you don’t make money on producing Dash put aside some funds to allow an outside contractor to continue to do repairs, and try to sell the whole mess for whatever you can get.

The Chinese have bought lots of other distressed brands and turned them into money makers - in other cases they have bought them and seen them flop. I find it hard to believe that the owners of Whites would turn down a lucrative offer from a Chinese company who basically only need the label – the actual intellectual property with the possible exception of a single parent isn’t worth much.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Looks like this still for sale.
[www.coldwellbankerhomes.com]

Shakydigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Whites thought that it was better to close t
> han to send production to China. A lot can be said
> about Whites detectors and the technology they use
> d but they can still find good targets on good sit
> es.

damn straight, and the coil selection is exemplary

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Tesoro is gone, White's soon to be going as it looks, a worldwide pandemic, changing the names of syrup (Aunt Jemima), changing the name of Cracker Jacks, removing the picture of the native American on Land O Lakes butter package, riots, and on and on, things have gone beserk. If only the people that are doing all this nonsense and have all these nutty ideas would put their time into doing good things instead we ALL would be better off.

With Dave Johnson moving from White's (eons ago, but he was the genesis of some of their better detectors (MXT comes to mind, but I know it's not the only one), and Carl Moreland moving there a couple of years ago, they certainly lost some serious talent, and I don't think they've ever recovered, took old VFL tech, prettied it up a bit, waterproof, and viola you have a new detector. If they had come out with a lightweight, waterproof V3i, or a derivative thereof, they would still be in business.

With as many MInelab users as there are, except for China who rips off everyone's IP, it's hard to poke criticism at other non-US detector makers, there's a lot of interesting and very effective detectors and new technology coming from these makers.

I hate to say it, but White's was a victim of their own success. Even Garrett who hasn't exactly been innovative until their SMF machine surfaced recently, they'd done exceptionally well with some fairly capable detectors and a crap load of great marketing. FTP seems to be on a race to the bottom, historically that's been a suicide mission.

SkiWhiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tesoro is gone, White's soon to be going as it loo
> ks, a worldwide pandemic, changing the names of sy
> rup (Aunt Jemima), changing the name of Cracker Ja
> cks, removing the picture of the native American o
> n Land O Lakes butter package, riots, and on and o
> n, things have gone beserk. If only the people tha
> t are doing all this nonsense and have all these n
> utty ideas would put their time into doing good th
> ings instead we ALL would be better off.




Wow, it's getting pretty crazy alright. In 100 years detectorists will be lucky if they can dig up seated and capped smilies in parks that have stick figure statues...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2020 12:05AM by DFinTX.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth as I see it.
>
> Minelab staggered White’s with their Explorers and
> Etrac model.
>
> Then came Xp for the next round of fire with Deus
> released in USA.
>
> Then the knock out punch came with Minelab’s Equin
> ox.
>
> Hard for a woman imo to swing the Sherman tank V3
> series models.
>
> Xp crushes Euro sales for White’s higher end model
> s.
>
> A 2.2 pound vs a machine that was double the weigh
> t. Duh.
>
> Seems White’s last stand was to try and go the gol
> d route making what they did.
> Minelab is a mighty big name in the regions where
> gold is searched for.
> So all the GPX and GPZ owners why wouldn’t they be
> using Equinox as VLF ? Or the gold monster.
> Oh yeah I do think Minelabs success with PI units
> helped them with their VLF sales of EQX and Gold M
> onster in say Africa.
>
> So a wall was created by Minelab, Xp, and yes eve
> n Nokta- Makro, and Garrett and First Texas.
> A wall White’s can’t get across.
> There is only so much market share to go around.
> And what little market white’s can muster ain’t en
> ough.
>
> Really plain as day if you have been following las
> t 8 years.

I especially have seen the Explorer do it in person....I hunted the PANTS off of a few places that are local to me with my Whites from 2010-2013. I know my modded IDXPro well. Then I got my Explorer2. My mind was IMMEDIATELY blown, many DEEP coins showed up, with GOOD I.D.! What the machine does and how it works is just a different thing in an unmistakeable way, and my IDX really hasn’t been used since, except for a couple “nostalgia hunts”. It simply cannot compete. FBS probably crippled a lot of manufacturers in some way or another, a true “leap” in technology. The ability to accurately I.D. bottle caps is worth the price of admission by itself.

Amen Brotha Kevin!!!!!!!!!IDXMonster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The truth as I see it.
> >
> > Minelab staggered White’s with their Explorers a
> nd
> > Etrac model.
> >
> > Then came Xp for the next round of fire with Deu
> s
> > released in USA.
> >
> > Then the knock out punch came with Minelab’s Equ
> in
> > ox.
> >
> > Hard for a woman imo to swing the Sherman tank V
> 3
> > series models.
> >
> > Xp crushes Euro sales for White’s higher end mod
> el
> > s.
> >
> > A 2.2 pound vs a machine that was double the wei
> gh
> > t. Duh.
> >
> > Seems White’s last stand was to try and go the g
> ol
> > d route making what they did.
> > Minelab is a mighty big name in the regions wher
> e
> > gold is searched for.
> > So all the GPX and GPZ owners why wouldn’t they
> be
> > using Equinox as VLF ? Or the gold monster.
> > Oh yeah I do think Minelabs success with PI uni
> ts
> > helped them with their VLF sales of EQX and Gold
> M
> > onster in say Africa.
> >
> > So a wall was created by Minelab, Xp, and yes e
> ve
> > n Nokta- Makro, and Garrett and First Texas.
> > A wall White’s can’t get across.
> > There is only so much market share to go around.
> > And what little market white’s can muster ain’t
> en
> > ough.
> >
> > Really plain as day if you have been following l
> as
> > t 8 years.
>
> I especially have seen the Explorer do it in perso
> n....I hunted the PANTS off of a few places that a
> re local to me with my Whites from 2010-2013. I kn
> ow my modded IDXPro well. Then I got my Explorer2.
> My mind was IMMEDIATELY blown, many DEEP coins sho
> wed up, with GOOD I.D.! What the machine does and
> how it works is just a different thing in an unmis
> takeable way, and my IDX really hasn’t been used s
> ince, except for a couple “nostalgia hunts”. It si
> mply cannot compete. FBS probably crippled a lot o
> f manufacturers in some way or another, a true “le
> ap” in technology. The ability to accurately I.D.
> bottle caps is worth the price of admission by its
> elf.

"I know more than you do because i have been in the hobby longer".
No, that isnt necessarily true and if you think that, it most probably isnt true in your case.
Years dont make Wisdom, years make Age.

Years do tend to produce wisdom and they definitely produce age. I only say this because older folks can have more experience. an eight year old is usually not as wise As a sixteen year old. This does not preclude a young man from being wiser than an old man if he seeks out wisdom and/or has more experience. The problem is there are only so many days in a year to gain experience.

Let's save the Whites brand ..? .. The only option is to buy their detectors ... Some of the Whites detectors are really excellent ..

I believe they are past saving.
It wasn’t yesterday when they mox nixed their findmall sponsorship. Tesoro did that too I think.
And Mr Boykin seems was let go, he was their internet person who was going to the forums.

Yeah, alarm red sounded long ago, I’m afraid.

Something else worth mentioning. I don’t think any of the older White’s models ever got any cheaper. Fisher lowers their prices. Nokta-Makro I think did too.

So let’s see MXT about same price as Eqx 800.
MXT has no wireless, no waterproofing, no multi freq, has knobs, weighs more, doesn’t have modern look. Lackluster performer in salt water/salt beach, Not updatable.
So which one would an average person buy??? Odds wise?

White’s seems don’t have a bread and butter unit. When that airplane dropped that detector out at Detectival, the deal was sealed.
Yeah that cute little Aussie thing along with that cute little French thing dropped the hammer.
The mighty Simplex, real cheap for the performances it offers and waterproof to boot.
Then the Vanquish comes along an even cheaper unit, and then this here Garrett Ace Apex is debuted.
One firestorm after another of new products. Hard to defend that with White’s lineup.

Alright here’s what I did and I think this shows something.
I did a google search of 2 detectors .
Put White’s Treasure pro and a few spaces then type YouTube.
First thing out of the gate a video. Done way back in 2015.
It has nearly 54,000 views.
[m.youtube.com]

Then did the same with Nokta Makro Simplex a more recently released model.
It has roughly 30,000 views, model hasn’t been out very long.
[m.youtube.com]


Doing the same as above putting Minelab Equinox 800 in search box and a few spaces the entire type YouTube.
This is first video up.
Has around 106,000 views. This video I think is done in UK.
[m.youtube.com]

Doing the same using Minelab Equinox 600 I got this.
This video only has approx 7,000 views.
[m.youtube.com]

Putting Garrett Apex in search box and a few spaces then type YouTube this is what popped up.
This video has as many views as the approx 5 year old video talking of the White’s Treasure pro I posted above. Over 54,000 views,
[m.youtube.com]

Here is YouTube directory of white’s electronics videos.
[m.youtube.com]
Imo and you can look for yourself, really none of these videos have a lot of views. Especially when you consider how long they have been posted online.

Here is Minelab’s YouTube video directory.
For comparison.
[m.youtube.com]

Here is Xp metal detector YouTube video directory.
They don’t have many models but seems lots of folks watch their videos.
[m.youtube.com]

Did White’s ever participate at Detectival event?
I don’t know but can’t remember ever seeing them there via what videos were supplied.
Did find this when I did google search “White’s at Detectival”.
From Steve’s forum.
[www.detectorprospector.com]

Look at How many views of this approx 3 month old Minelab vanquish video.
Over 93k views.
[m.youtube.com]

And look at this first look White’s 4 year old approx video of MX sport. Has only approx 76k views.
[m.youtube.com]

I looked back and I don’t think White’s has had a single video that has been viewed as many times as the 3 month old vanquish video mentioned above.
Wow.



Edited 15 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2020 09:22PM by tnsharpshooter.

Wow edited thirteen times!