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1788 half reale, buttons, etc...

Posted by Tom_in_CA 
1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 30, 2020 08:08PM
Got out with some good friends to one of our CA "back-pocket" sites yesterday. Over the years this site has given up 30-ish reales that I'm aware of (8 or 9 to me alone). And 2 gold coins (A $5 to me, and a $10 to a buddy). Various early seateds, a few busts, etc.... And scores of cool period relics and buttons. But in recent years, all the good zones have been hammered to the point of total silence And other zones we still get targets from, were grassed in with knee-deep grass yesterday

But we still managed to pull a few keepers.

Got this 1788 half reale. Super deep whisper, so that was especially rewarding 2 phoenix buttons : Cuff/small #2 and cuff small #7 Also a nuisance 1899 IH (new for this site). And various black-smithed green copper. The copper of the late 1700s to early 1800s spanish era here takes on a particular green patina, that tells us we're into the right period.

One of the two friends, a fellow forumite here, got an especially nice button. He should be chiming into this thread soon with his additions.

Thanx for coming along with us !















The "phoenix buttons" are sort of a sport-unto-itself here in early CA sites. The can fetch anywhere from $30 on the low, to $300 on the high, depending on who's bidding them up on ebay. And certain #'s are rarer than others. They became collectible to a niche of collectors d/t they were associated with Indian trade-item history, d/t their locations found in WA and OR. And since Indian artifacts have long-standing collector history, these just sort of became adopted into that same category, and hence became collectable in and of themselves.

They arrived here on the west coast sometime by no later than 1810-ish. And show up in sites from the early 1800s through to as late as the 1840s.

I won't bore you with the history. You can google that.

My buddy found one of the rarer ones yesterday. I'm green with envy. He'll add to this thread later today hopefully .
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 30, 2020 08:13PM
Man I like OLD. I have a friend that sent me some really old stuff from EU. But our old stuff and relics can impress too. Really nice digs
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 30, 2020 08:21PM
Nice finds Tom---but man---don't keep us in suspense!!----Tell us what detectors you & your buddies were using, ground condition & depth of the targets.----Was Brian in on this hunt also?-----WTG!---------Del
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 30, 2020 08:25PM
D&P-OR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice finds Tom---but man---don't keep us in suspen
> se!!----Tell us what detectors you & your buddies
> were using, ground condition & depth of the target
> s.----Was Brian in on this hunt also?-----WTG!----
> -----Del


haha, yes, one of the 'partner's in crime'. His passion is catching. He really appreciates the history and competition.

I was using an Explorer II. My buddies were both using the Equinox 800's. And the viewer will kindly note (ahem ahem), that I spanked both of them on buttons and coins ! The Mighty Explorer ! Muuhahaha

But seriously now : I probably have a little advantage since I've worked this site a lot more than either of them . So you know the drill: You sort of know what you're listening for, and know the probable spots that *might* yield some more targets. Brian has hunted this site a few times before. But it was our other friend Greg's first time here.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 12:35AM
Met a guy yesterday....Said you used to follow him around ...when you where a kid....(mexican guy)...Forgot his name?
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 01:28AM
Here's what I got on the trip with Tom:



The large disc on the left is a horse concho with a lead filled back. to the right of it is a buckle, unfortunately it had the original iron pin in the center which corroded and blew out the center when I tried to conserve it yawning smiley

The large disc to the right of the buckle is marked (I believe, it's kind of tough to read "Nhlimet co. Cincinnati". It's threaded on the other side, with the edge notched (like a U.S. coin), and I believe it's the top to a black powder container. Here's a view of the side:

This Phoenix button was a welcome addition, it's a rare one, an artillery aka "cannon and mortar" button, regiment No. 2 which was the Queen's Army (regiment No. 1 was the King's Army).



Here's the buckle, looks pretty old, too bad it's not in better condition. The item above the buckle I believe was a Spanish trade ring that someone flattened out:



Targets are getting sparse at this site, but each one has the potential to be from the 1700's up, so it's a fun site.

GL&HH,
Cal
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 01:43AM
Y'alls stuff is soooo old & beat up!!!----Don't mind me--I'm jes jealous!!smiling smiley----That's some "cool beans" items you recovered---congrats.TU
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 01:46PM
Brian the item to the right is a higlos. Picture courtesy of Goldhart from the old California Forum.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 05:01PM
thanx El ! We just generically call them all "Indian pendants". Because of the notion that they were used as trinket Indian trade items. And these smallest type are called "bell-clapper" style . Thanx for the pix !
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 06:32PM
Nice Digs!

NICE button Cobra!!! NICE!!!

I like the reale Tom!And Religious item is intriguing.Whast on it?

That buckle is nice any pattern?

That threaded stopper is neat.maybe Whiskey pocket flask?

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 07:05PM
mascard1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Met a guy yesterday....Said you used to follow him
> around ...when you where a kid....(mexican guy)...
> Forgot his name?


That would be "Jose". He lived in this area of CA (Monterey/Salinas) back @ 1979 to 1980-ish, d/t his job at the time. I was still in high school at the time, and had run into a few adults in-the-hobby around town. Jose was one of them. Would pick their brains and beg to tag along. He moved off soon after that, and eventually ended up in the Sacramento area. I'm guessing he's long since retired by now. Last I heard he got into nuggets, as did most of the hunters in the Sierra foothills area, when that became vogue starting in the mid 1980s there.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 07:08PM
Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> And Religious item is intrigu
> ing.Whast on it?
>



I don't have it handy right now, to get a closer pix. But if you've ever seen the ones that the UK guys find (that are super worn down and crude) , that's how this one looks. So whenever we find those types, we figure they were antiques/vintage EVEN when they came to the new world . Because the UK guys date theirs to the 1500s-1600s, for example, when they attain this look and feel. It just depicts some sort of saint on one side, and a friar with a shepherd's staff or something on the other. The clasp is broken off. If you want a better pix, I can fetch it from my home trays, and post it when I get back to my work 'puter tomorrow.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 11:32PM
Yep.. that was him...
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
August 31, 2020 11:40PM
Impressive!!
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 01, 2020 12:07AM
REALLY neat history here!
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 01, 2020 01:15AM
what a terrific hunt, Tom! thank you for sharing, great pics.

Jeff
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 02, 2020 12:13AM
Elbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian the item to the right is a higlos. Picture
> courtesy of Goldhart from the old California Forum
> .


Thanks El.

I've found a couple of these in the past, both were larger sized, so nice to find a smaller example.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 02, 2020 12:26AM
Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice Digs!
>
> NICE button Cobra!!! NICE!!!
>
> I like the reale Tom!And Religious item is intrigu
> ing.Whast on it?
>
> That buckle is nice any pattern?
>
> That threaded stopper is neat.maybe Whiskey pocket
> flask?
>
> Keith

Hi Keith,

I'm really happy to find the button. I don't have near the amount of Phoenix buttons as Tom, but I'm up to about two dozen now, but their all "common" regiment numbers.

The threaded circular item is about the size of a half dollar, and it I think it actually reads "LUNKENHEIMER CO CINCINNATI". Lunkenheimer started in 1862, and Frederick Lunkenheimer manufactured parts for steamboats and military equipment, and later expanded to the automotive industry, and airplane industry. They manufactured airplane parts for Charles Lindbergh's plane used in his transatlantic flight in 1927, and the president of the company was an avid aviation pilot himself, creating his own flying field. He donated the land to the city and it became the Lunken Airport. They stayed in business until 1968 when they were acquired in a hostile takeover by Condec.

The buckle appears to only have some accentuating lines around the inner and outer parameters. I'm trying to decide if it's worth trying to clean further, and if so, what to use? I've heard of people soaking in transmission oil to break off the crud, I guess an extended soak in WD-40 would probably work too.

Thanks for taking a look!
Cal
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 02, 2020 04:29AM
Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elbert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Brian the item to the right is a higlos. Pictur
> e
> > courtesy of Goldhart from the old California For
> um
> > .
>
>
> Thanks El.
>
> I've found a couple of these in the past, both wer
> e larger sized, so nice to find a smaller example.

Brian, here is picture of the longer higlos. Also, one the disc on the saddle may be like the one you found. Again, thanks to goldhart for the picture.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 02, 2020 03:41PM
Elbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Elbert Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > > Brian the item to the right is a higlos. Pict
> ur
> > e
> > > courtesy of Goldhart from the old California F
> or
> > um
> > > .
> >
> >
> > Thanks El.
> >
> > I've found a couple of these in the past, both w
> er
> > e larger sized, so nice to find a smaller exampl
> e.
>
> Brian, here is picture of the longer higlos. Also,
> one the disc on the saddle may be like the one you
> found. Again, thanks to goldhart for the picture.
>


Hi El,

Thanks for posting the photo, that's a neat photo.

The horse concho disc has a lead filled back, and although you can't tell in the photo, it still has a good amount of gold gilt on the front after I cleaned it with lemon juice.

What's fun about these types of sites, is that although I'm a Johnny come lately to them, over the years, the meager finds you make on each hunt add up and start to convey a pretty interesting story about the history of these sites. It's nice to save the relics otherwise they'll sit there and rot, lost forever.

Hope you're doing well in these trying times.
Brian
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 02, 2020 06:02PM
Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alt
> hough I'm a Johnny come lately to them, ....

Yes, some of them, where all you got were "my leftovers". But *certain other* sites (albeit not necessarily mission era), you were indeed the first to swing a detector there . Pity the poor fellows who follow in your/our footsteps at other places in our long list ! haha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2020 06:03PM by Tom_in_CA.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 03, 2020 10:49PM
I say we start a correlation to keep Tom from finding all the good stuff.
You find the best stuff barnone.
Re: 1788 half reale, buttons, etc...
September 13, 2020 08:16PM
Nice hunt !!!
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