How long until silver coins are out of reach?

The silver coins are sinking deeper into the ground with each passing year. How many years or decades before they are all too deep to be found with today's detectors or even with new and improved detectors?

Most of the silver coins I find were dropped between the 1940s and the 1960s. I find coins dropped from the 1880s to the 1920s with much less frequency. The relative scarcity of finding earlier coins may be because: 1) fewer earlier coins were minted, 2) a previous generation of detectorists found those coins, or 3) many of the earlier coins have sunk too deep into the ground for detectors to locate.

Reason number 3 concerns me. There may come a day when even a 1964 dime or quarter is beyond the reach of our detectors.

It depends on the soil conditions in your area. Where I am, in Northern New England, the coins generally stop sinking when they reach the base soil layer about 8 to 12 inches deep. The base layer is usually made up of packed gravel or clay and doesn't move much. Any coins found within the base layer usually get there by means other than sinking, such as animals/humans digging, tree trunks falling over and exposing the roots, erosion, etc.

Even though leaves and trees fall on the ground every year, the topsoil layer always stays the same depth. If the topsoil had been building since the ice age, it would be six feet deep in places by now, but that has not happened. The topsoil depth has not changed in my lifetime where I live. It's probable that the topsoil is consumed by plants and animals at the same rate of speed that it is produced which is a perfect system.

Coins can also be brought closer to the surface, pushed up by tree roots, or unearthed by animals digging dens.

In New Hampshire, it's not unusual to dig colonial coins just a few inches deep.

I'd say, the biggest reason for coin scarcity is 2) a previous generation of detectorists found those coins.



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2020 11:49PM by Badger in NH.

On average good coins where I hunt are 6 to 8 inches deep or 4 depends but I well agree with badger there in some ones pocket now we or looking for left overs sure there well be old coins at 2 inches and at 12 but detecting 51 years I still go with average depth of 6 inches where I hunt .sube

I just dug a 1964 dime yesterday (probably dropped in 1967)...... at a depth just over 8". , . , . , . , . which....... in Florida soil....is considered 'fairly shallow'.

Biggest thing I run into is dirt being moved around/“brought in” by PEOPLE. The seemingly constant need for humanity to “improve” things by dozing, grading, planting, scraping...results in a lot of even new-ish coins being at our limit already. And WIND! Remember the dust bowl? Millions of acres were stripped of most of their topsoil and it wound up somewhere else. In the end, it doesn’t matter much, we continue to go search, we continue to recover coins. As long as that remains the status quo, I’m in.

I think another aspect of this is ...... people hunt in popular sites. Just like on the beach .... everyone is chasing recent drops so they hit up the main beach. That leaves a lot of sites not untouched.... but more like not touched as often. Trash still seems to be a big factor too. Getting beyond it without the machine picking it up and you moving on just because we cherry pick more in those sites. There is also sink vs cover up rate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2020 05:05PM by dewcon4414.

My experience on hillsides has shown me that on areas water doesn't stand the older coins don't seem to sink much beyond 4 or 5 inches, I have found a lot of coins that were dropped 100 years ago that were at that depth on hillsides, I think it is because water doesn't stay there and saturate the ground, it runs off for the most part and the coins pretty much stay put. That is my theory anyway.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The silver coins are sinking deeper into the groun
> d with each passing year. How many years or decad
> es before they are all too deep to be found with t
> oday's detectors or even with new and improved det
> ectors?


Bayard, I would propose to you that this is only true for certain terrains and soil types & location-types. For example: Turfed parks. Yes it's true that the older coins tend to be deeper than clad. HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that this depth-correlation slows down after awhile. FOR EXAMPLE : The depth difference between a clad dime lost last year, and a 1970 clad dime that was lost in 1970, might be 5" apart in depth, eh ? So that equates to 1 inch for every 10 yrs, eh ? So if that rule remained constant, then logically speaking a 1900 dime lost in 1900 (120 yrs. ago) has to be a foot deep, right ? (just doing the math).

But no, it doesn't work like that. When you get down to where you're finding the 1920s losses (wheaties and early mercs), then you often notice that the earlier coins (losses from 1900-ish) are very close to that, if not equal to the depth.

This is after taking into account circulation time (ie.: I'm aware that a 1900 dime could have been lost in 1920, so you factor in the wear, to figure for time-of-loss).

So I am of the opinion that even in turf, they "slow down" after hitting harder subsoil stratas . Naturally EVERY soil type is different, and moisture levels vary, grass types vary, etc.... But just saying that the sink speed is not "constant" over the decades and centuries.

>
> Most of the silver coins I find were dropped betwe
> en the 1940s and the 1960s. I find coins dropped
> from the 1880s to the 1920s with much less frequen
> cy. The relative scarcity of finding earlier coin
> s may be because: 1) fewer earlier coins were mint
> ed, 2) a previous generation of detectorists found
> those coins, or 3) many of the earlier coins have
> sunk too deep into the ground for detectors to loc
> ate.

This is making the assumption that the demographics of coin-usage circulation are the same . Eg.: that if it's common place for you or I , or a grade school kid NOW (or in the 1950s) to be carrying 6 or 8 coins in our pocket, then SO TOO can we assume that a guy or grade school kid in 1920 or 1890 ALSO be carrying an average of 6 or 8 coins in his pocket at any given time.

But this is not the case. The reason why you notice that you find the majority of your silver coins dated 1940s to 1960s, is because that was the most affluent prosperous time of USA economy in our entire history. So whereas it was common for a post-WWII kid to be carrying "6 or 8 coins in his pocket to school", yet the same can not be said of a kid in the 1890s, 1920s, or depression era 1930s. So it stands-to-reason that, go figure, there were simply more coin losses in the 1940s to 1960s. Nothing at all to do with a) depth that detectors can reach, b) prior md'rs getting them, c) fewer coins minted, etc....

>
> Reason number 3 concerns me. There may come a day
> when even a 1964 dime or quarter is beyond the rea
> ch of our detectors.

Stop and think about this a bit : You know that guys in Europe (like the UK), are getting silver coins back to the BC era, eh ? That's quite a bit older than 1964, eh ? And you might say "that's because they're hunting plowed fields so the stuff can get churned upwards over the centuries". However, if you talk to guys in the UK who hunt UNDISTURBED fields (like, believe it or not, some guys even park hunt there), they will tell you that they can find coins from the 1400s and 1500s, even in undisturbed turf. Again, it will depend on the type turf or ground.

And not all undisturbed ground is "turf". Out here in the west (CA, AZ, NV, etc...) we have a type of landscape called "chaparral". That's just cow-pasture type fields and rolling hills. Perhaps dotted with oak trees. And we have hardpan desert terrains in some parts of the west. In such terrains I have found seateds, reales, and even gold coins, that I could have heard with my pinpointer, before even starting to dig.

So there is no danger of "some day not being able to find silver". There are endless frontiers : old town urban demolition projects, beach storms, plowed fields, dryer terrain, etc.... And even turf will take hundreds more years to be a depth issue. In my opinion, the MUCH BIGGER problem in turfed parks becoming useless, is NOT the depth issue. It's the junk issue. Because when you compare your tallies NOW, with the dudes who were scarfing up silver there in the late 1970s and early 1980s, you have to factor in that we now have 40 more years of foil, tabs, zinc, etc.... on top of that. And most turf-hunters tend to cherry pick (try to pass foil and clad, for example). Which creates a masking disadvantage.

I can think of parks where we scarfed up on great old silver in 1980, that I wouldn't touch now with a 10 ft. pole . And it's NOT that the "silver is now too deep". It's because they are an ocean of zinc, screw caps, foil, tabs, etc..... And no, I'm not going to be a hero and go strip-mine such locations to get past the masking effect

Most of the modern'ish (1700 onwards) coins i find are in the 6"-10" range in undisturbed ground.

ghound......... That would be a dream-come-true....... if I had that sink-rate here....in wet boggy/soggy Florida!

Numerous times....... and independent of each other....... I've had Archaeologists state/tell me: "Life begins at 1-Meter deep".

I concur with 'ghound' over the years have found many many hammered silver coins going back to roman ie silver dinari nearly 2 millennia within the top 8-10 not in one specific area but across the whole UK.

The sink rate is not as drastic as what i think folks make it out to be.

Here’s my take.
One might could prove sink rate in some areas around/near me.
By digging in some fields and just seeing how deep an Indian arrow head is found.
Speaking of which how would a person be finding arrow heads anyways in fields if rates were higher like some think?
How old are arrow heads? Very old.
Shouldn’t really be any found in many fields it would seem when tilled or plowed.
One would think they would have sank below the plow line depth. And never be brought back nearer to surface.
Naturally some might argue coin density/size different and comparing to arrow heads is foolish.
Wonder how deep an arrow head might sink in 10,000 years? Or 14,000 years? In undisturbed ground.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...
> Wonder how deep an arrow head might sink in 10,000
> years? Or 14,000 years? In undisturbed ground.


I've spotted them (w/o even looking) right on top of the desert floor in some western states.

But it's like you say : This won't dissuade the argument. Because someone can just claim that metal (coins) behave differently than non metal (arrowheads).

With the possible exception of Florida, coins to not :"sink" by themselves.

Years and years ago I performed an experiment for my own education on this subject. I filled a container with moist soil and placed a penny on the surface. I would occasionally water it so the soil went through many cycles of wet/dry.

I can categorically state that after 5-7 years, the coin did not "sink" one bit. It remained on the surface.

Coins are pushed down by grass and plants and earthworms and other insects can undermine the soil beneath the coins causing them to sink. Those are just two of the reasons.

You also have turf build up. Which can cover the coins to more depth.


That's my answer and I'm sticking to it.

Detectorist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the possible exception of Florida, coins to n
> ot :"sink" by themselves.
>
> Years and years ago I performed an experiment for
> my own education on this subject. I filled a conta
> iner with moist soil and placed a penny on the sur
> face. I would occasionally water it so the soil we
> nt through many cycles of wet/dry.
>
> I can categorically state that after 5-7 years, th
> e coin did not "sink" one bit. It remained on the
> surface.
>
> Coins are pushed down by grass and plants and eart
> hworms and other insects can undermine the soil be
> neath the coins causing them to sink. Those are ju
> st two of the reasons.
>
> You also have turf build up. Which can cover the c
> oins to more depth.
>
>
> That's my answer and I'm sticking to it.


Detectorist------(IMO & FWIW), you are absolutely 1000% correct in what you stated.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just dug a 1964 dime yesterday (probably dropped
> in 1967)...... at a depth just over 8". , . , . ,
> . , . which....... in Florida soil....is considere
> d 'fairly shallow'.

If the sink rate is linear, 1964 silver is unreachable for you in less than 25 years. Fortunately, I strongly suspect that the sink rate is nonlinear. Maybe you've got 40 or 50 years left instead of 25.

Many of the responses in this thread are essentially "coins don't sink too deep in my local area." That's great; but, coins are sinking deeper each year in much of the country. Here in Illinois, I had to dig a four foot deep hole in my backyard a few years ago. It was soft black top soil all the way down. There's nothing to stop the sinking here.

Because of the coincidence that metal detectors were developed and mass marketed right about the time that silver coins were discontinued, there is a widespread belief that a skilled metal detectorist will always be able to find silver coins. I think this is a misconception that time will disprove.

For much of the country, we're living in a narrow window of time when silver coins can be found with metal detectors. It's temporary. Enjoy it while it lasts, especially if you're under the age of 40. Some day in the not too distant future, silver coins will be too deep to find in much of the country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2020 04:18PM by Bayard.

Bayard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>... we're living in a narrow
> window of time when silver coins can be found with
> metal detectors. It's temporary. Enjoy it while
> it lasts, ....

How do you figure ? How do you say that ? Why are they finding silver coins in Europe (like Britain), that are 1000 to 2000 yrs. old then ?

And don't think that it's "because agriculture plowing keeps them coming to surface level". Because if you were to poll UK hunters who hunt undisturbed land (non agriculture, never cultivated by plow), they get silver coins that are centuries and centuries old there, too. For example, I know it's rare, but there *are* some UK hunters who do turfed lawns (like parks, or perhaps around an old castle or villa, etc...) that was never under the plow (although, yes, plowed fields are their favorite). But even at those undisturbed terra firma zones, they can get super old silver there too.

Thus how do you figure that USA silver will eventually all "slip below detection level", in-lieu of the situation in Europe ? Which has thousands of years more history than us ?

I have written/documented a ton of data about just exactly this subject on this forum.
Over 99% of the targets that were dropped 125 years ago..... (and longer)...... are too deep/out-of-range of modern-day metal detectors.......especially here in Florida.
Just remember....... paper money hardly existed 150 years ago. (If there were........ no one trusted it).
If you ever get a chance to talk to a State Archaeologist....... DO! It's an eye-opener. (Just don't tell him that you are a detectorist).

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....
> Over 99% of the targets that were dropped 125 year
> s ago..... (and longer)...... are too deep/out-of-
> range of modern-day metal detectors......


Well gee, I must be getting a lot of those 1% of coins

Tom....... in tropical climates...... sink-rates are horrific!
In dry locale ..... sink-rates are much less.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom....... in tropical climates...... sink-rates a
> re horrific!
> In dry locale ..... sink-rates are much less.


We find silver coins out here in the west that in many cases are at from 1/2" to 4-5 inches deep that have been there for a VERY long time.------FAR too many variables to make a "blanket statement".

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghound......... That would be a dream-come-true...
> .... if I had that sink-rate here....in wet boggy/
> soggy Florida!
>
> Numerous times....... and independent of each othe
> r....... I've had Archaeologists state/tell me: "L
> ife begins at 1-Meter deep".

It sounds a dream until you take in ground minerals, sometimes getting a detector to work past 6" is a struggle lol

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bayard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >... we're living in a narrow
> > window of time when silver coins can be found wi
> th
> > metal detectors. It's temporary. Enjoy it whil
> e
> > it lasts, ....
>
> How do you figure ? How do you say that ? Why a
> re they finding silver coins in Europe (like Brita
> in), that are 1000 to 2000 yrs. old then ?
>
> And don't think that it's "because agriculture plo
> wing keeps them coming to surface level". Because
> if you were to poll UK hunters who hunt undisturbe
> d land (non agriculture, never cultivated by plow)
> , they get silver coins that are centuries and cen
> turies old there, too. For example, I know it's
> rare, but there *are* some UK hunters who do turfe
> d lawns (like parks, or perhaps around an old cast
> le or villa, etc...) that was never under the plow
> (although, yes, plowed fields are their favorite).
> But even at those undisturbed terra firma zones, t
> hey can get super old silver there too.
>
> Thus how do you figure that USA silver will eventu
> ally all "slip below detection level", in-lieu of
> the situation in Europe ? Which has thousands of
> years more history than us ?

.
I done just that, dug a 800yr old silver about 6" deep in castle grounds.

As you can see by the various answers, the answer to the OP is It Depends. On that site's particular soil/geology. Lose a coin over a large rock and itll be there for manay many generations.

Also rem that earth moving by humans isnt all bad. Some of my best silver finds have come from fill dirt.

My bete noire is the mulch, new turf and other additions that are constantly being poured over top of earth in urban areas. Whatever the "sink rate," in all too many public places around here, you'd have to take off a foot of earth to even get to the old surface.
But leaving that aside, I think the more serious problem is that there is no new supply of worthwhile coins. Silver stopped in the mid-60s, and now even the supply of clad is drying up, with commerce increasingly going digital. Long gone are the days when every American carried a pocketful of change to use for soda machines, parking meters and pay telephones.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >...
> > Wonder how deep an arrow head might sink in 10,0
> 00
> > years? Or 14,000 years? In undisturbed ground.
>
>
> I've spotted them (w/o even looking) right on top
> of the desert floor in some western states.
>
> But it's like you say : This won't dissuade the
> argument. Because someone can just claim that met
> al (coins) behave differently than non metal (arro
> wheads).

Not only have we found arrow heads on the surface, but also Indian trade beads AND 1800's coins...rare, but it does occur.

Sink rate is very site specific IMO.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom_in_CA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -----
> > >...
> > > Wonder how deep an arrow head might sink in 10
> ,0
> > 00
> > > years? Or 14,000 years? In undisturbed groun
> d.
> >
> >
> > I've spotted them (w/o even looking) right on to
> p
> > of the desert floor in some western states.
> >
> > But it's like you say : This won't dissuade th
> e
> > argument. Because someone can just claim that m
> et
> > al (coins) behave differently than non metal (ar
> ro
> > wheads).
>
> Not only have we found arrow heads on the surface,
> but also Indian trade beads AND 1800's coins...rar
> e, but it does occur.
>
> Sink rate is very site specific IMO.


100% agree!

Jeff