TARSACCI 12" COIL FIELD-TEST

Just received the 12" MDT-8000 coil. Notes/observations .... in a bulletized nutshell:

* Coil is somewhat heavier (as to be expected) than 11" x 8" coil. Solid/stable.......easy to swing.
* 18Khz expresses 2.1" greater depth on a Nickel over the 11" x 8" coil.
* Identical electronic stability when compared to 11" x 8" coil...... on the wet-slope, in the 'splash' ....and IN the water. There was never a 'need' to reduce Sens .... because the coil is bigger (with subsequent increased blowback/flyback).
* Target ID characteristics are identical to 11" x 8" coil.
* No performance/depth loss whilst IN the saltwater. (The greater depth gain is retained IN the water).
* No noticeable loss in depth/performance on very small targets.
* Salt Balance numbers were only a point (or two) different .....as compared to 11" x 8" coil.
* ID at the greater (added) depth levels is linearly increased/better.
* 15" on a Nickel in wet-salt.....with conservative settings. 16" on a Nickel in the wet-salt with aggressive settings....(easily achieved with skilled beach hunters).
* 16" Nickel gives splattered ID's; yet, the audio is 'tight'....short, clean.....and target does not shift/move. Easy to tell it is a non-ferrous target.
* Deep iron ID's as iron.

In a nutshell.....prelim.

18KHz during the whole test OR was a different frequency used when you found "* 15" on a Nickel in wet-salt.....with conservative settings. 16" on a Nickel in the wet-salt with aggressive settings....(easily achieved with skilled beach hunters).

Definitely some interesting preliminary findings!

Cliff

Tom,

Thanks for posting. This information is definitely helpful!

-Kerry

Cliff....... I really 'focused' on 18Khz; yet/however........ I did indeed do some head-to-head testing of 18Khz vs 9Khz. 9Khz is a bit more stable (allowing greater Sens/Thresh settings); yet, slightly less performance on a Nickel.,.,.,.,.,., but slightly greater performance on Zinc Pennies, clad Dimes and clad Quarters. What's ironic is............ If I remember correctly.,.,.,.,.,.,., a more ideal Freq (resonant frequency) for a U.S. Nickel is around 10Khz; yet, on the Tarsacci..... 18Khz shines. (((Tarsacci uses a different set of rules))).
Also...... for my East Coast (Florida) beaches...... the 12" coil generated the following Salt Balance settings:
6.4Khz = 42
9Khz = 33
12Khz = 20
18Khz = 19
Temperature of the water dictates how much salt is held in solution; which, in turn, generates these Salt Balance numbers.

In short order; I have come to the conclusion: I will NEVER hunt the beach again with the standard 11" x 8" coil. This 12" coil really wakes up the Tarsacci, yet, another increment/plateau.
Also on my mind: It is counter-intuitive (to me)......to see a larger coil present the same stability as the smaller coil.....on a wet-salt beach.

Something I know I need to clarify (even to/for myself): At the very fringe depth-of-detection of targets....... the Tarsacci's ID's will 'splatter' all over the ID spectrum. When you start to slightly decrease the depth... just barely away from "fringe" depth....... the ID's rapidly start to tighten up.
But/yet/however.....even fringe depth targets present enough audio intelligence to tell if the target is non-ferrous.
This 12" equipped Tarsacci..... now far exceeds the performance of my customized AquaStar-II P.I. unit. Plus........ the Tarsacci has full spectrum ID. (My PI has zero ID).

Great news on the Tarsacci. I may have to revisit a purchase of the unit. I sold mine last year.

Tom, thanks for the added info, it was enough to make up my mind...now to melt some gold to pay for it....I'll be in touch. May make my AQ limited a closet queen.....hmmm

Cliff

Cliff....... I speculate the AQ is still slightly deeper than the Tarsacci with the 12" coil installed....... BUT......this is with the AQ in All-Metal Mode (with zero ID capabilities whilst in this All-Metal AQ Mode).

Tom your preliminary write up on the 12 inch coil delivers a huge amount of excitement. I know you will get to it at some point, but I'm dying to hear the results of the performance on a dime in your dirt/test Garden. I hunt ocean as well as land. My dirt is on the mild side any performance gain over the stock coil would definitely seal the deal for me. Thanks Mike

Mike....... with the 12" coil ...I'm getting a clean/clear greater depth on a (clad) dime ... in my test-garden of
1.6" whilst in 9Khz
1.7" whilst in 6.4Khz

Once again...... at the very fringe of depth...... the ID's are splattered. I have NOT taken this coil to any inland/turf/dirt hunting sites (yet).

Many thanks for the data being posted. I've ordered my 12" coil. The snow will be the only thing stopping me from using it immediately!

-Kerry

NASA Tom just sold a million coils lol this sounds spectacular! Is anyone interested in a smaller diameter middle and lower carbon fiber shafts for their tarsacci? I will be sending Steve what he needs to build some of anyone is interested. Will be nox shaft size and should glide through water easier and may even reduce weight on the coil end of the detector. Let me know sorry for hijacking

I am HIGHLY interested in a much longer lower shaft........,,,,,,,,,, to the tune of about 5" or 6" longer. Coil is TOO close to my feet. And........ I need a greater arc-radius (greatly increased coverage/coil-travel). And...... it'll actually be less fatiguing with the swinging weight being placed out in front..... now using centrifugal force......instead of 'holding' the weight of the coil in suspense.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am HIGHLY interested in a much longer lower shaf
> t........,,,,,,,,,, to the tune of about 5" or 6"
> longer. Coil is TOO close to my feet. And........
> I need a greater arc-radius (greatly increased cov
> erage/coil-travel). And...... it'll actually be le
> ss fatiguing with the swinging weight being placed
> out in front..... now using centrifugal force.....
> .instead of 'holding' the weight of the coil in su
> spense.

I'm sending this to Steve now. Thanks Tom

OK everyone,

SO as to not hijack this thread, I'll start a new one...regarding Tarsacci shafts...

Thanks!

Steve

One more observation:

* 12" coil is fairly hydrodynamic. I can easily tell it is a larger coil.....IN the water; yet, it is fairly easily "do'able". When the undertow is steep..... it'll deploy me out-to-sea! (I'm 170 lbs). In the tall crashing waves..... THAT'S where I can fatigue-out fairly easily. But..... in moderately choppy water (even chest-deep)..... it is not bad at all.

FYI

Chest deep water is much easier to work than nearer shore with the long shore drift. You dont work nearly as hard because most of the time you are behind those waves and the rush back of water.

6" lower shaft length .... im in for that. Thou.... im not sure how much just a thinner lower will help reduce torque in the water without reducing the middle shaft size as well. The MDT shaft is a pretty thick shaft..... between the Nox and DFX OD size. Oh and Tom you need smaller feet lol. Ive seen your video swinging a coil..... you really like a wide swing. I do as well.... even IN the water i keep a pretty long shaft. Im 5'7" but i bet mine is as long as Cliffs.... likely the next to the last hole. Hes like 6'2". Ive ordered mine thru Tom as well.

Those SB digits you gave Tom seem to be in reverse at chest deep for the standard coil any way. 18 and 12 run around 43 SB.... 9 and 6.5 are 30 to 33 depending on how close i am to the hard pan.

This is good usable depth for the beach hunter without have it be in a 15" beast of a coil. Which means in the water you arent trying to push that larger coil to get the same depth, coverage is faster, and PPing is easier. Most all VLFs loose depth in the water.... a couple of iches. Even PIs need adjusting which affects sensitivity. The MDT maintains a good bit of that usable depth from sand to water. Looking forward to playing with this coil. I appreciate Dimitars efforts on this project. I know it wasnt something he wanted to do so early on..... but its a game changer for many users. Look forward to see what kind of info the UK guys give us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2021 11:50AM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chest deep water is much easier to work than neare
> r shore with the long shore drift. You dont work
> nearly as hard because most of the time you are be
> hind those waves and the rush back of water.
>

Dew, I agree with the above statement BUT, I think you have to qualify that somewhat.....that description is hunting in the Gulf......Ocean hunting is a different animal and your head is normally on a swivel watching the waves if you can get out that deep!

Cliff

Inland dirt/turf hunt today. (9.5-hours). Zero coil microphonics. Coil is not allergic to wet-grass, bumping into twigs, sticks, rocks etc.........
Had zero issues swinging (the weight) of the 12" coil. It is a bit heavier...... yet; far from fatiguing.

I deliberately hunted behind myself...... where I had previously hunted (to death) with the Tarsacci w/stock 11"x8" coil. I would approximate about 14% more finds.....behind the smaller coil. NONE of the targets (found) were shallow. NONE of the targets were new. (((A record-breaker day.... in several regards))).

If your dirt allows...... try hunting in 6.4Khz with unit Ground Balanced to your dirt. (I had no mineralization..... so I deliberately placed Grnd Bal on a high number '814' for the day). I used Salt Balance....and set it on a higher setting of '43'. DISC Mode. Sens '9'. Thresh on -2, -1......and mostly '0'....if EMI allowed. Volume 15. Black Sand: OFF. Tracking: OFF. Disc: -30 (Negative 30).
I hunted two sites. One with low iron. One with high iron. These settings (for no mineralization dirt) worked well.

Tarsacci operates in a Time-Domain. (Far from VLF........which is to say: far from perceived norm 'expectations').

My learning-curve with the 12" coil was steep...... but quick. (Already have tons of hours with the 11" x 8" coil).

Maybe I missed it somewhere but what is the cost?

360.00 USD Plus 18.00 shipping.

I’m hoping that quote of 14% will pan out in my case as well for water hunting gold. When I first got the MDT I saw a bit higher percentage of finds over my NOX....but we all know a lot of factors go into what we find on a given day.... or even year. I understand a few have gotten their coils and out testing. Seems cheaper than a new machine.

He also speaks of a 2.1 inch gain on a nickel. Exceeding the depth of some Pi units and all other non Pi units. That I know of.

Well today mine came. Im looking forward to playing with it tomorrow. Dont know how much testing ill do just because ill be looking for a condo managers wifes diamond ring she lost. This coil should help with this..... more coverage for sure. The ears are indeed thicker and it takes up the slack in between the ears and washers..... definitely snugger and a better fit. Should cut down on us wanting to crank that bolt to get it tight. Weight is just GREAT.... and i really like the balance when you swing. You dont tend to turn your coil up at the end of your swing. Smooth. The coil and cross overs are full of epoxy so there shouldnt be any coil separation. Ive not got it in the water yet but im guess it will move even better than the standard. The connector is right there where it should be so it can be connected and go right up the pole so it should cut down on any cable vibration in the water which might also be heard/picked up by the detector. It will be interesting to see if the target digits change ..... and if they get a little more stable running it HOT. Im not that concerned about EMI in the water.... once the coils dunked that goes away. Ill see what it does on the wet sand. So for those of you who ordered on..... as Max would say.....STAND BY.

Dew....... I'm finding a slight bit more hydrodynamic drag IN the water...... but disproportionate to the (much) greater size of the coil...... over the smaller stock coil.

Tom I believe it moves as well as the standard.... stays down and a lot easier coil control. I like this thing. Really has some coverage..... I got a small 3.9 gram 14k today. Out of the water I expected a much heavier nose .... I can’t say I reall noticed the weight difference. It was doing some pushing and pulling out there but it moved along the bottom no problem. Even in ankle deep water with the higher tide throwing in some real waves she was good.

Ive attached a couple of sheets which may or may not reflect my 1 day hunting observations. The white sheet is from 2 years ago or so when i did some ring testing with the MDT. The yellow is of the rings i did today. Just broken down by white/yellow gold. What i did notice is if you go over a high K gold ring.... 18 to 24k (yes i had a couple of those) you get a very very solid digit. What i noticed yesterday air testing for digits..... penny 14, nickel 7, dime 18, and quarter 22. Now it seems they all jumped up one digit from the standard coil. I think you may also see that in the rings list. By the way a pull tab air testing read 7 instead of 6.... one digital higher. Aluminum .... can slaw and pull tabs still up scales into say the 26 range if really deep. In the water these coins seem to go back in some cases to the standard coil digits. The gold ring i found yesterday was a solid 5. The machine still seems to NOT upscale gold rings in the water. I didnt test a number of small targets just because we had some stiff winds today and ive got some high power lines that always create more EMI. So that ment i had to turn down the sensitivity to 3 and it was difficult to say if it was EMI noise or the tiny target. What i did notice thou.... i have a hollow earring that i remember testing with the standard coil..... it was only 2 targets the Nox got that the MDT didnt. Well it gets the earring now even turned way down..... and the earring is OPEN. Im not Bill Nye..... so im sorting this out .... which often takes me a good many hunts. Right now it appears..... i best not pass up any of those SOLID digit pennies at 14.

Sure does appear the bigger coil is one digit higher then last time....on average.

Hey, Dew. Nice job of comparing the new 12-inch coil with older 11 x 8.5 results.

As I recall, your chart from two years ago was all done at 9 kHz.
Is that also the case with the new results?

Yes i try testing with the same setting i hunt with .... so 9khz was used for the air test. I should have use BOTH coils to see what rings were doing rather than show the old chart. I believe targets are up scaling by one digit at least in 9khz. Im sure as more get the coil there will be a lot more comments from those who like to test. Im more of a hunter.... get out there do it and adapt to whats happening with the machine. In this case i think its good things.

I did some more testing today with both coils. The first photo shows the rings i tested the sheets show how many were in each category.... white, yellow, mixed gold and PLAT. The first sheet shows how the digits compared. I also mentioned when i have wind i have EMI..... im showing a sheet of what that EMI can do.... same rings in the same order. What had happended during the testing was a lot of wind while testing the 12".... then it just stopped as i began testing the 11". Soooo i retested both with NO obvious EMI. Gold changed very little with the exception of a couple of rings between the coils. I retested the coils and they do seem to upscale 1 digit for me. My changes were sensitivity at 4 and Threshold at -2 in AM.... i wanted a good stable reading.

Let me also mention something i noticed. I wondered why this coil moved as well if not better than the standard. Well the 12" is HALF the thickness and doesnt have a flat front both of which makes for more water displacement.