Tarsacci shaft (aftermarket)?

Hi all!

I'm exploring the possibility of a small run of tow-piece lower shaft assemblies (middle and lower sections) for the Tarsacci MDT-8000. These shafts would be smaller in diameter than the current Tarsacci middle and lower shaft sections -- which is something that a couple of folks have asked me to do (basstrackerman and dewcon), and I see that NASA-Tom mentioned that he'd like a much longer lower rod as well, which would be easy to do.

So, I'm going to design a Tarsacci-specific plastic lower rod "head" (the Tarsacci's is much smaller/narrower than on most other units, given the Tarsacci's narrower coil ear width). Production cost of just one or two of those plastic heads would expensive, but price quickly becomes more reasonable if I order at least 5 to 10 of them. So, anyone who my have interest, please let me know. I'll be targeting $100 for the cost of the shaft, which could possibly be reduced a bit if I get more than about 5 people who may be interested.

Just a few words about how I'd accomplish making a smaller-diameter middle and lower shaft...it would require a carbon-fiber tube (for the middle shaft section) that is "Tarsacci-sized" at the upper end -- so as to fit seamlessly/properly into the upper Tarsacci cam lock. The tube would then taper quickly, just below the cam lock, to a much smaller diameter (22.15mm -- i.e. the size of an Equinox middle/upper shaft). I'd then use one of my clamp-type cam locks (similar to those used on the Tarsacci), to connect the middle section to an "Equinox-sized" (19.75mm diameter) lower rod.

Basstrackerman is sending me a Tarsacci middle and lower shaft sections, and a coil, so I can get the needed measurements. Once I have those, I will confirm that one of my carbon-fiber suppliers can make that "tapered" tube I described (I think they can; they have made tubes with smaller tapers for me in the past). I will also draw up the Tarsacci-specific lower rod piece, and submit it to my plastics producer for a cost estimate. All of that process would take about a week, once I have basstrackerman's shaft and coil. I would then be able to nail down the price, and proceed.

At that point, custom lengths of shaft would be easy to do. NASA-Tom, I could build you a shaft as long as you need it to be (longer middle section, longer lower rod, or both). I would need to do the middle sections in black (for now), but could build any color of lower rod, if anyone wanted something other than all black. Like I said, this 2-piece lower shaft assembly would integrate seamlessly into the Tarsacci upper S-shaft, using the Tarsacci upper cam lock.

If anyone has interest in this, please reply to this post or send me a PM. It will help me to decide on whether to proceed, and if so, how many parts to purchase for an initial, small run of these shafts. It's not a detector that I had considered building shafts for, since the Tarsacci already employs a quality carbon-fiber shaft, with quality, heavy-duty cam locks, but a smaller shaft diameter (less drag in the water) seems to be something that some folks are interested in, as well as potentially different (longer) shaft length options.

Thoughts?

Steve

We have been talking about this off and on for some time. Im glad someone else is now not as attached as i am i guess to their machine LOL. Now the time guys to give Steve exactly what we want. Im of course a water guy..... i believe we need a longer middle shaft. I think having a little more shaft inside the upper will reduce movement which could cause wear on the shaft and eventually lock failure. It also allows for longer shaft extension on the other end with holes for people like Tom and me. Im short 5'7" but like my shaft extended even in the water to almost full length. One of these day .... maybe we will get a straight shaft who knows.

Glad you posted this Steve. Thank you! Once I get back from North Carolina so Calabash can do some testing I will send you the required items you need to do this. Oh and I'd be interested in a red/black lower

basstrackerman -- sounds good, thanks! Red/black on your lower would be no problem at all. Thanks!


Steve

Steve....... my only goal is to have a longer overall length. Does not matter if it is done with middle shaft....... or lower shaft. Also: I have no concern about color. It's all about functionality/performance!

NASA-Tom -- got it! I didn't think color would be very high on your list. In fact, I would doubt it shows up there, at all!

Anyway, for you I'd probably do a bit of both -- a little longer on the middle, and then longer on the lower. Once we get to that point, I'll check with you to see just how many inches more would be necessary in your case, and I'll be sure to build yours accordingy.

Thanks!

Steve

Steve....... It's logistically more inhibiting for 2 shafts. Plus..... more expensive.
A 5" or 6" increase on only one of the shafts...... is all that I need!

NASA-Tom,

Sounds good. I'll get you taken care of!

Steve

Thanks Steve. Just holler a price. I know the routine!

I agree lengthen the lower shaft would allow what i want to do to that middle shaft. Thats push it further into the upper to compensate for the torque on the upper lock AND id still have the ability to extend the lower shaft for a better swing. There are like 3 holes im not using which shortens the length. It amounts to about 6" i believe. The spring clip is near the end of that lower shaft. so i may have 3 inches of shaft inside the middle if i were to move it to the last hole like Tom does. In the water .... i dont believe that enough. So.... we definately need a few more inches in the lower shaft for my mod to the upper.... 6" sounds good.

I'm 6'4. So buying a MDT might depend if an extension comes available. The current unit I am testing is maxed out and is too short for me.

midalake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm 6'4. So buying a MDT might depend if an extens
> ion comes available. The current unit I am testing
> is maxed out and is too short for me.

Yeah I'm 6'4" also and use the tarsacci but thankfully the coil attaches to lower rod closer to the edge and that keeps coil out away from my size 17 feet. Need a longer shaft.

Oh and I'm sending Steve my coil and both lower rods from my tarsacci today so he can get started on things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2021 01:58PM by basstrackerman.

basstrackerman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> midalake Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm 6'4. So buying a MDT might depend if an exte
> ns
> > ion comes available. The current unit I am testi
> ng
> > is maxed out and is too short for me.
>
> Yeah I'm 6'4" also and use the tarsacci but thankf
> ully the coil attaches to lower rod closer to the
> edge and that keeps coil out away from my size 17
> feet. Need a longer shaft.
>
> Oh and I'm sending Steve my coil and both lower ro
> ds from my tarsacci today so he can get started on
> things.

Well I know Steve is reading this. So I hope a thinner diameter lower is in the works!!! Dang, I thought my size 15's were big!!!!

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree lengthen the lower shaft would allow what
> i want to do to that middle shaft. Thats push it
> further into the upper to compensate for the torqu
> e on the upper lock AND id still have the ability
> to extend the lower shaft for a better swing. The
> re are like 3 holes im not using which shortens th
> e length. It amounts to about 6" i believe. The
> spring clip is near the end of that lower shaft.
> so i may have 3 inches of shaft inside the middle
> if i were to move it to the last hole like Tom doe
> s. In the water .... i dont believe that enough.
> So.... we definately need a few more inches in the
> lower shaft for my mod to the upper.... 6" sounds
> good.

Hey dew I checked inside my upper shaft and there is a small ridge about a half inch past the button hole. Seems it would stop a middle shaft from going any deeper into the upper. Looks like machining marks or using a some kind of hone (sp?) For sizing then stopped just past button hole. So we may not be able to get a middle to penetrate deeper into upper.

Oh well it is what it is buddy. I’ve not broken mind down is some time since if I travel I take my SUV. Good info for Steve. I was thinking if we got a little wear the middle shaft could be pushed in another inch or so. Thanks for both of you for taking a serious look at this project

NASA-Tom --got it, thanks!

Everyone, thanks for the interest. It looks like there are enough folks that would see usefulness in an aftermarket shaft, that I'll pursue a design.

Basstrackerman (Bill) is sending me his middle and upper shaft, and a coil, so that I can get all the needed measurements, and work out a design.

A few things.

dewcon -- it looks like there is no way, from pictures Bill has shown me, to allow a middle shaft to insert any farther into the upper shaft. If you look inside the upper shaft, it appears from the pictures that the inner diameter changes to a thinner diameter, about 3" into the upper shaft. In other words, there's an intentional "stop" there, to keep a middle shaft from inserting any farther than about 3". So, that's one thing I can't really change...

Also, I think most of you know that my shafts are designed around the cam lock. The cam lock is the foundation of a good shaft, and it's where I started from, when designing the Equinox shaft. That was the first, and most important, part of the design. My cam lock is specifically intended to lock shaft sections SECURELY in place, with no slip, no slide, no spin; the intention was to allow ELIMINATION of the lower rod spring button, and middle shaft spring button holes.

My lock includes a thumb-adjustment screw, and this thumb screw allows the user full control of the clamping tension applied by the cam lock; in other words, if a shaft section were ever to move/slip/turn, that simply means that you have your clamping tension set too loosely. In that case, it simply means that a fine-tune of the clamping tension is needed, using the tension adjustment thumb screw. It's usually a "set it and forget it" adjustment, but sometimes -- like when changing to a different lower rod -- there may be a fine-tune needed (given possible small manufacturing deviations in tube diameters). ANYWAY, my long-winded point is that this was an intention, a goal, in my shaft design (eliminating the spring button/button holes), and it has served my customers well. After couple of years building Equinox shafts, and having sold many hundreds of them -- many to avid, dedicated beach hunters -- I have yet to hear of a customer who has had any issues whatsoever with shaft section connection security. And nor would I ever expect anyone to -- it simply should NOT be an issue -- again, due to the user having complete control over clamping tension, via the thumb screw on the clamp.

AND SO, while I know this will get alot of blowback, my intent would be to build this shaft WITHOUT button holes in the middle section, and WITHOUT a spring button in the lower rod. It's not that it CAN'T be done, but it adds a good bit of complexity to the shaft build, it adds expense, and does so WITHOUT, from my view, any real benefit or advantage. Again, I've never had a single customer report any issue with shaft section connection security, and that follows the logical expectation given that the user has full control of the amount of clamping tension which can be applied, given the cam lock design.

It appears that the upper-to-middle shaft section connection on the Tarsacci DOES utilize a spring button/button hole, and so I will also do so on my middle shaft -- to integrate seamlessly into the Tarsacci's upper. I'm not sure if the button is in the upper and the hole is in the middle section, or vice versa (the button in the middle section, and the hole in the upper). IF the button is in the middle section, I'll have to source the proper size of spring button (NASA-Tom, is there any chance you could get me the specs on the button, so that I can source a supplier for the proper size)?

Otherwise, though, with the middle-to-lower connection, I'd strongly prefer NO button/button holes. Dew -- I know you in particular are a huge proponent of buttons/button holes, but...some of the issues you are describing in your post, regarding the difficulties you experience with the button and the holes not being in the locations you want/need, ARE A BIG PART OF THE REASON why eliminating the buttons/button holes ALTOGETHER is a preferable way to build a shaft. It allows a user maximum flexibility in adjustment of the shaft sections, a much easier process to install/remove shaft sections, etc. And so -- IF ELIMINATION of the button/button holes can be done, WITHOUT sacrificing connection security (and I am highly confident it CAN), then I can't see a good reason why NOT to eliminate them.

Again, if those of you interested in the shaft absolutely DEMAND that they be included, I'll do so. But, are you all willing to consider the idea that there really may not BE a legitimate purpose WHEN USING A PROPER, ADJUSTABLE CAM LOCK?

Thanks, all!

Steve

Steve the button spring is inside the middle shaft. The hole is in the upper shaft.

Bill -- thanks for the info. So, I'll have to source the spring buttons, then, to make the middle-to-upper shaft section connection.

Thank you,

Steve

Ok I shipped the coil and both middle and lower shaft from my tarsacci to Steve just now. Monday is delivery date . Thanks Steve for doing this very much appreciated.

Bill -- you are very much welcome; thank YOU. I appreciate you sending the items to me. I'll get to work on the design as soon as I receive them.

Thanks!

Steve

Steve.... you got me wrong. I do NOT like "SINGLE" spring clips us double or not at all. Locks have come a LONG way. You have no argument from me about the locks working OUT of the water..... you never have a problem with um. But in the water that coil in swift water tends to twist the shaft over time the CF shaft wears. The least little bit with a bit of sand and you have movement..... thats bad. We put a LOT and i mean a LOT of torque on them out there. I use a nylon bolt.... but i dont do a lot of adjustments once i like it its set. IF for some reason i do want to adjust it that day i remove the bolt and yes use just the lock. Im good Steve with what ever you come up with buddy..... you just need enough shaft up in there for enough length. I can see the complexity of adding holes lining them up. Just put the coil flat and line er up then lock it up. Besides them spring clips rust. When we make a straight shaft for the Xcal..... mine have a long upper for the lower to go into..... ive even just used one piece and the small dive lower...... NOT lock.... just a bolt where i want it.

Dew --

I think my cam lock might surprise you! These have been tested HEAVILY in surf -- including the Pacific Ocean/West Coast of the U.S., and I have yet to hear of a customer with one of my shafts who has had any issue keeping the shaft sections solidly locked in place.

BUT -- with that said, it sounds like you'll be using a hole, with a nylon bolt through the shaft, in any case, so you don't have a requirement for a spring button in the lower section, and button holes in the middle section. Sounds good; meanwhile, making the shaft sections long enough to meet your needs is no problem at all.

Thanks Dew!

Steve

Thanks Steve. Make mine like Tom’s lol. I know you been did a lot of testing and I saw your NOX shafts good stuff. My main goal....a thinner shaft with a bit more length



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2021 12:22AM by dewcon4414.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dew --
>
> I think my cam lock might surprise you! These
> have been tested HEAVILY in surf -- including the
> Pacific Ocean/West Coast of the U.S., and I have y
> et to hear of a customer with one of my shafts who
> has had any issue keeping the shaft sections solid
> ly locked in place.
>
> BUT -- with that said, it sounds like you'll be us
> ing a hole, with a nylon bolt through the shaft, i
> n any case, so you don't have a requirement for a
> spring button in the lower section, and button hol
> es in the middle section. Sounds good; meanwhile,
> making the shaft sections long enough to meet your
> needs is no problem at all.
>
> Thanks Dew!
>
> Steve

I can vouch for the cam locks in hard Pacific Ocean use. No Issues so far. Dave

Steve....... I think I'm 2-years in the running (maybe more) with your camlocks/shafts for the EQX and have zero movement...... zero error. Flawless.

Looks like from my own experience and what I'm reading on here, middle shaft needs a single hole to attach button for connecting to upper and no holes in lower middle shaft because lower rod will not have any button, just a strong clamp . KISS. Works for me. Make each section 2" longer or more depending on what the user wants.

Thanks, guys, for the feedback. Much appreciated!

Bill -- yep, that's the idea, and not just simpler to build, but simpler to use, also, not having to mess with the buttons/button holes when adjusting shaft length. Yep, one spring button in the upper part of the middle shaft, for connecting the middle section to the Tarsacci upper shaft, and no buttons or holes elsewhere. But -- longer shafts, and thinner outer diameters (for less drag).

Dew -- got it! I'll build yours like NASA-Tom's...

Thanks gents!

Steve

Steve i just want to thank you for taking on this project. I also dont want anyone to think the MDT NEEDs to be modified. This is a tank of a machine.... and at the same time very light. The locks on it are outstanding as well....no twisters and you dont get any ML wobble.... nor freeze up like with aluminum shafts either. Some of us who can hunt in the water ... like the Gulf most of the year wanted something a little thinner to go with the 12" coil. Its going to be an interesting built.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2021 11:04AM by dewcon4414.

Dew -- yep, the reasons you stated are reasons I never targeted the Tarsacci for an aftermarket shaft. From all I know of the shaft itself, it's high-quality...

Steve

CRAZY! Tarsacci was built to be bulletproof! Nearly/virtually indestructible. And now we want to change it!!!! (Self included!). Hmmmmmmmmm.