TARSACCI stunning paradigm-shift performance

When a incursion keeps repeating....over..and over..and over again.......AND I can replicate/duplicate it in my test-garden...,,,,,.....,,,,,, it is worth sharing.
And........... Keith has shot video's of similar performance.

Several days ago...... it happened. Again. I was testing the new 12" coil in a beat-to-death (by me) parcel of land. I heard a very clear, repeatable, consistent high-tone. (Tarsacci was in Disc Mode). Full body-rotation around the target whilst sweeping...... and the MDT was ID'ing '17'. A bit weak; yet, absolute solid ID lock-on.......with according high-tone. I was deliberately testing 6.4Khz in this heavily trashy environment. Because of 'where' this high-tone was detected..... set off every red flag in the book. Of this entire detected parcel....... this particular location was THE highest detected/concentrated area. Not only should there be nearly no more detectable non-ferrous targets in the ground....... there CERTAINLY should be no more high conductor coins to be found. I was highly (red-flag) alarmed......and concerned. Any time that I am proto testing....... it is common for me to bring a few other (different flavor) detectors. Without touching the dirt..... I went back to the car ...and grabbed a Nokta Impact and EQX. Both detectors reported a 'foil' ID reading. , . , . , . , . , . far from a high-conductor/high-coin reading. Due to the high amount of chewing gum foil and aluminum can-slaw (lawnmower chewed-up soda can bits/pieces) in the ground....... I could see 'why' I did not recover this target. BUT...... this does not explain 'why' the Tarsacci was seeing/reporting/reading a high-conductor/high-coin ID reading. I tested the target again with the Tarsacci.....and it was still reporting a fairly weak high conductor. I then switched the Tarsacci to 18Khz. Immediately...... the target ID'd in the foil range (ID of '04'). Switching BACK to 6.4Khz...... and the target was a clear '17' ID. Now it's time to 'carefully' dig/recover the target. Sure enough...... at 2-3/4" deep..... up comes a piece of solid aluminum can-slaw....... about the size of a fingernail. The Tarsacci ID'd the target correctly.....as long as the unit was in 18Khz. The Tarsacci lied......whilst in 6.4Khz. I covered the plug up...... grabbed the two (backup/test detectors) to bring them back to the car........ decided to just simply check the plug once again with the Impact........ and ...... sure enough ...... no target. Tarsacci did indeed lie (or "false high-tone") whilst in 6Khz. Placing the other detectors back in the car..... I then proceeded to hunt just a few more minutes with the Tarsacci. ((( I was a bit disheartened. ))) I managed to find two more non-ferrous targets that were in the 7" - 8" range. This still (happily) surprised me......and triggered another thought. As I was leaving the parcel of land.... to pack up for the day...and head home. , . , . , . , . , . I was still at mental-unrest with Tarsacci's unsettling performance. Because of these last two targets......in the last few moments before departure.......... I decided to walk back over to the aluminum soda can slaw plug..... and sweep the Tarsacci over the restored plug. The Tarsacci was STILL reporting/ID'ing a '17' ID..... with according high-tone. Red flags......alarm bells: all over again! VERY carefully...... I slowly commenced a 'variables-removed' excavation, cautious target-recovery. At exactly 9" deep......was a silver Mercury Dime! In an "on-the-spot" air-test.... the Dime ID'd "17". Stunning, Stunning, Stunning. A contradictory electromagnetic paradox! And it is exactly THIS incursion that made me realize........ Tarsacci is talking the language of 'Time Domain'. NOT VLF.

I immediately proceeded home...... to the test-garden. , . , . , . , . , . , . to see if this performance could be replicated/duplicated/repeated.
Nutshell: ABSOLUTELY!

Sparing you an even lengthier explanation.......... for those of you who have a Tarsacci........ perform the following simple test: Get a piece of jagged can-slaw.....about the size of a pinky fingernail. Grab a silver dime. Place/pinch the can-slaw between your pinky finger and your ring-finger. Pinch the dime between your thumb and index finger. You should be looking at 3-fingers of (3-Dimentional) separation ..... between the two metallic targets. Sweep your hand by the Tarsacci coil (whilst in 6.4Khz) with the aluminum can-slaw CLOSEST to the coil...... hiding (masking) the dime. See what kind of results YOU get!!! (No VLF-type platform....... SMF, single-freq, or otherwise) will do this).

"Why" am I telling you this? Because this IS the type of performance you can expect to ascertain .... in the real World. This also includes chewing gum foil.

MUCH more to say........ but I shall spare you the gory/boring engineering-geek details.

Do you think it can ALSO determine the canslaw is there ? Or is it just that it has a natural tendency to favour the target that best matches its chosen operating frequency ? If it's able to say 'there's a dime' and 'there's a pulltab' , that would be a neat trick to implement, a good use for stereo audio, too I feel. 'Dime' signal in both ears together, as the 'dominant' target; and a weak 'tab' signal in one ear only, so you know it's there, but it's 'secondary'. Not only would this make you more informed about what's underground as you sweep, it would also help with target recovery, as you will expect other targets in the hole, so be more diligent.

It would have been interesting to see how the other frequencies would have responded. Under that same example I wonder what the results would be if the target was a thin coin. It also brings up the question of which frequency is best to use.

Tom very interesting test results.

I'm sure you most likely tested the other units in like Khz settings, but just curious did you try the lowest Khz settings on the Impact and EQX, and still receive a foil range reading?

I too am curious what would happen if 9 or 12khz was used to cross-check. Regardless, this is fascinating. Thanks for the info Tom!

My guess is the salt setting was set high enough to balance out the foil like it wasn't there. And, Or the hybrid time domain picked up enough of the dimes decay to register a little high tone.

Ok I just now tried this with equinox and simplex .. nox single frequency 4 got a solid. 28, freq 5 solid 26, freq 10 solid 24, 15 solid 22, 20 solid 20, 40 solid 17-18 and multifrequency a 16. Simplex got a 54. This was 2 fingers apart. Small fingernail size beaver tail piece and merc dime. Park 2 mode sensitivity at 15

A few moments in time...... I shall convey what I can:

* Brian........ I did indeed cycle through all 4 freqs on the Nokta. It was a solid foil ID target 'lock-on'..... regardless of Op Freq. ----VERY confident of 1st Derivative 'foil'. Strongest signal. Closest signal. ----In the 'wild'. In the real-World.
* I kept the EQX in its lowest grouping of Freq's (Park Mode-1, Multi).......and did not change to higher freq's.......which would have become more resonant to the high-Freq/low-conductor foil target. I did not try single freq 4Khz or 5Khz.
* One big clue...was the fact the MDT did not waiver in the '17' ID of the coin.....even with a MUCH stronger (shallower) '04' foil signal.
* basstrackerman.....very good test!. Yes, I would be curious with 3-finger separation. But ..... what you provided....is still very good data. NOT to give you more work....... but what did/does the silver dime ID in all of those EQX single freq's....without any aluminum piece in the way?
* Steve...... your 'decay' comment is spot-on.

For the record...... 6.4Khz did indeed detect the can-slaw aluminum...... once I cleared it away from the (much) deeper dime. . . . . in an air-test.
Pimento....... split-channel (via headphones) in stereo....... with one channel (earcup) on 18Khz..... and the other (earcup) on 6.4Khz..... would require formidable engineering....... but COULD be done.

This detector is so dramatically different from a VLF........ that I must perform a ton more tests. And some of the tests....I may have never even thought of........this far in the game.

Time Domain, Resonant Freq, Decay Rates...... and even more.

I probably didn't explain too well. I was thinking of the machine operating at the one frequency, as normal, but giving an indication of more than the one target.
For example, at 6.4 kHz, it would pick up on the 3kHz dime, but would it also know and be able to indicate ( audibly, or even visually) the 25 kHz canslaw too ?
If it was operating at 18kHz, would it pick up a deep 20 kHz gold ring, whilst still being able to tell you there's a 5kHz Memorial cent sitting above it?
I'm trying to work out if it's just favouring the higher conductor of the two, or the one that best matches the operating freq. If you're hunting gold rings, it's not ideal if it favours 1 cent coins.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few moments in time...... I shall convey what I
> can:
>
> * Brian........ I did indeed cycle through all 4 f
> reqs on the Nokta. It was a solid foil ID target '
> lock-on'..... regardless of Op Freq. ----VERY co
> nfident of 1st Derivative 'foil'. Strongest signal
> . Closest signal. ----In the 'wild'. In the real-
> World.
> * I kept the EQX in its lowest grouping of Freq's
> (Park Mode-1, Multi).......and did not change to h
> igher freq's.......which would have become more re
> sonant to the high-Freq/low-conductor foil target.
> I did not try single freq 4Khz or 5Khz.
> * One big clue...was the fact the MDT did not waiv
> er in the '17' ID of the coin.....even with a MUCH
> stronger (shallower) '04' foil signal.
> * basstrackerman.....very good test!. Yes, I would
> be curious with 3-finger separation. But ..... wha
> t you provided....is still very good data. NOT to
> give you more work....... but what did/does the si
> lver dime ID in all of those EQX single freq's....
> without any aluminum piece in the way?
> * Steve...... your 'decay' comment is spot-on.
>
> For the record...... 6.4Khz did indeed detect the
> can-slaw aluminum...... once I cleared it away fro
> m the (much) deeper dime. . . . . in an air-test.
> Pimento....... split-channel (via headphones) in s
> tereo....... with one channel (earcup) on 18Khz...
> .. and the other (earcup) on 6.4Khz..... would req
> uire formidable engineering....... but COULD be do
> ne.
>
> This detector is so dramatically different from a
> VLF........ that I must perform a ton more tests.
> And some of the tests....I may have never even tho
> ught of........this far in the game.
>
> Time Domain, Resonant Freq, Decay Rates...... and
> even more.

Ok mercury dime 26/27 in all single frequencies and 25/26 in multi .

Pimento...... what it 'feels' like (and ..... so far......... pure speculation..on my part)....... is: 6.4Khz presents more of a target 'lock-on'.....due to the density of the object. If it is a solid object..... the timing of 6.4Khz more readily wants to 'lock-on'. Granted....... the aluminum can-slaw is a very solid piece of aluminum; yet, it is quite thin. It may be possible to utilize one Freq (in this case: 6.4Khz)....... and extrapolate the data from both objects; yet, the engineering would be very intense to ascertain such feat. IF two freq's were utilized simultaneously ..... say 6 & 18Khz..... the delineation/separation would be already done. , . , . , . , . , . you just need to process the two separate freq's in two separate channels....... and run through a comparator. I have even experienced this incursion/phenomenon ...... of detecting a (much lower conductor) Nickel.... under a fairly large chunk/wad of chewing gum foil. Never did the 6.4Khz indicate the chewing gum foil even existed....... the hard density of the Nickel dominated.
True. What if you want to find a VERY low conductor....... say a small gold charm (ID'ing in the chewing gum foil conductive range)........ and it is hiding/masked a few inches below a high-conductor copper penny. I have not tested this yet. It is rather difficult to (wantingly) succumb to 'hungering' for digging a ton of low conductors (underneath all sorts of medium and high conductors) at a inland site. I may investigate this whilst in dry sand.

basstrackerman......I just tried your exact test. My numbers were a bit different; yet, within the confines of the same ballpark.....as long as I separated the two targets with only a 2-finger separation. But.............. where I see a difference is....... in real dirt. I do indeed see a strong bias of/towards high conductors whilst in a very low frequency; yet, not to the same performance levels as in/with an air-test.

Thanks for that, Tom. And anything that may prompt Dimitar to come out with new concepts and designs is always going to benefit us, I'm sure.

While it is stunning that the Tarsacci would Hi-Tone on the dime. It's almost equally stunning that there was approximately 6 and a 1/2 inches between the foil and the dime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 07:59PM by gman.

Exactly! And.... in real dirt! (Albeit....Florida low-mineralization dirt).

I'm attending a club hunt next weekend and putting it to the test on a 400 acre farm with a boat load of CW history. This site has produce some great finds and hunted a great deal by a small group of people. Sandy soil and I imagine lots of minerals from fertilizers made of manure and iron in the upper Pee Dee. Should be a good crowd and sure some finds still left to be had so I am trying anything to pick out the strays. Several cobbs and other time period coins have been found. This thread gives me lots to consider.