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Tom, what does our future hold?

Posted by Kingfish 
Tom, what does our future hold?
June 12, 2021 07:58PM
Is there anything you can share?
What direction are the manufactures going?
What should we be looking for?
What can we look forward to?
Do you feel there's any major breakthroughs that are about to be made?
Do any companies stand out more than others?

Very interested what your thoughts are on these questions.
Thanks
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 13, 2021 12:09AM
Well I am not Tom, but I would like to offer my opinion.

I have been detecting since I'm 12 years old. It took both hands to swing my Whites blue box detector. I am now 59. So yeah I have seen pretty much. My detector had no discrimination and was not really deep. But I would hit the old schools in my area and consistently come home with 5 to 10 silvers every hunt.



In my opinion the hobby is dying. The silver in the ground is finite. The land is becoming less accessible. And to be honest the only hunting I do anymore is salt beach hunting. At least the gold is replenished, The competition is out of control on the beaches, and sometimes I just don't bother. Most people swinging a detector today have no idea how good it was. Yeah I suppose one can take pride in finding a Merc in A hunted out park. But in the beginning that would be considered pathetic. And it isn't going to get better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2021 12:11AM by goodmore.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 13, 2021 12:39PM
I wonder what metal detector companies are in financial trouble. Seems that Covid provided a rare opportunity to spend a little more time on our hobby given that so much else was closed down. The economy is clearly improving and with more money being spent, metal detector companies need to take advantage and offer some fresh product.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 13, 2021 02:31PM
goodmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
. The silver in th
> e ground is finite.
.

I too remember the mid 1970s, starting with a non-discriminator, or a crude VLF/TR, when a beginner could pick up a detector, for the first time. And on his first day had a fighting chance to get silver at a local school or park. Nowadays, I wouldn't touch those same parks and schools with a 10 foot pole ! I pity the poor newbie beginner who "rushes out to the same spots", that used to be so easy for us. But I can't say I remember 5 to 10 silver days being common. Perhaps 5, haha.

And yes, like you, the new frontiers are things like beach storm erosion & old-town demolition tearouts. I've also noticed that certain regions of the USA got far-less pressure in the old days, so their parks can still give up silver. And their stage stop type-locations got no pressure, etc.... Versus my area had heavy pressure, and I pity the poor guy who picks up the same history books we picked up 30 to 40 yrs. ago eye rolling smiley
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 01:31PM
Didn't the nyt just say that the hobby is exploding and detector sales are at an all time high???
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 03:28PM
My take....

Is there anything you can share?

What direction are the manufactures going? Industry trends are moving toward "more bang for the buck" feature sets. MSSF (multiple selectable single frequency) and SMF (simultaneous multi-frequency) are now the expected norm, with onboard wireless headphone. Minelab is proving that people will purchase throw away electronics so the rest of the industry may move that direction. and I see a move away from user controlled electronics to more turn on and go.

What should we be looking for? Continued improvement in EMI handling, Continued improvement in dirt handling, and continued improvement in iron handling.

What can we look forward to? Continued improvement in EMI handling, Continued improvement in dirt handling, and continued improvement in iron handling.

Do you feel there's any major breakthroughs that are about to be made?

Do any companies stand out more than others? Garrett, Minelab, Nokta/Makro seem to be the major players in innovation although they are basically coping each other. You can argue what's under the hood but from a surface view....SMF is SMF, MSSF is MSSF. 1st Texas is probably working on a new platform, even though their old platform is still what the new is measured against. .

The dream is still alive. Metal detectors have always been about the dream. It doesn't matter what it was like 40 years ago. What matters now is the dream. Give a young kid or a old kid a coin album and a detector and regardless of the effort required the quest is started to start filling it in, pocket change to start, dug coins to follow.

Future is still bright because treasure hunters like hunting treasure.

HH
Mike
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 06:32PM
Good questions.
Interesting thread.

First....... there's tons of information that I'm unable to share. But......... rest assured......... the hobby is far from dead. There's three companies that really stand out.......as far as 'forward progress', aggressiveness.......and follow-through. Tarsacci, Minelab & Nokta/Makro. Yes....... COVID19......in varying degree's ..... has affected each entity; yet, they are now full-steam-ahead.

I want to premise with this: Minelab took 3 years to create the EQX/M-IQ. Tarsacci took 18 years to create the MDT-8000. Nokta took years to create many of their platforms. You would be astonished to know the actual man-years of 'blood' to create a concept/platform. NDA's aside........... there's a TON of human life-blood..... lifelong effort into Intellectual Property..................that......................... if we were to infringe.......................... you totally demoralize your very own 'blood' unto which our very dreams are made of. You are compromising (throwing away) sombody(s) life......... lifelong efforts.

I DO like to express future excitement; yet, with maximum protection of mankind; of which...... is our very own friends/brothers.

Tarsacci = Primarily a 4-man team of collective/collaborative effort.......to create the future..........with some rather 'out-of-the-box' thinking. Dimitar being the primary 'driving' force. (And he's a hard-core hunter........that travels around the World...to hunt)! As to be expected, Tarsacci is inventing/doing/experimenting/implementing. There's been some mild updates to the MDT.....on-the-fly. Mostly due to customer feedback and requests.......with some ideas being unsuspecting. Tarsacci already has new concepts in-works; yet, may be months or years away. (Hopefully not 18 years)!

Minelab = The largest volume of engineers and technicians (to include PhD Physicists)........working on many things. THE most collective, cohesive bunch that I have seen/witnessed in this industry. Yes, they are working on many different projects.......as to be expected. Lots of stuff to genuinely look forward to. They are now much more connected with end-users.

Nokta/Makro = These guys are catching up ....fast. Yes, they are trying to create a SMF platform ......to catch-up (and keep up) with the industry. Fast growing company based out of Istanbul, Turkey.

Other companies....... I choose NOT to speak of ....(((or have limited/no data to impart))).

Companies die....if they do not create new things.

More depth. Better ID. Greater feature-set................ are just a few of the things we're all wanting.
I feel Dimitar/Tarsacci's stuff is more 'revolutionary'. (Drastic/different electronic paradigm-shift mindset).
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 07:01PM
doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't the nyt just say that the hobby is explodin
> g and detector sales are at an all time high???


If so, perhaps this is simply a function of increased population as the decades go on ? I mean, go figure, there's more sales of loaves of bread than there were in the 1970s, for example. That's not a function of "more popularity". That's simply a function of increased population.

All I know is this : I've seen many many guys get into the hobby, that have a dickens of a time getting silver. It's not like it was if you took up the hobby in the 1970s, when you might get silver at the "most obvious downtown parks" each time you went out. Granted, that was all easy 1940s/50s silver, and granted, it was not deep (since it was only out of circulation 30-ish years by then). But it was easy.

I know a guy, right now, that has gotten very few mercs and silver roosies. But he's gotten a nice handful of seateds, a gold coin, etc.... already. And the ONLY reason (IMHO) that he "skipped to the head of the class" in that regard, is that he quickly hooked up with some hardcore guys. So he has NEVER had the experience of turf hunting, clad hunting, etc..... I'd venture to say that if he had not joined up with guys who had "done their 40 yrs. homework", and had simply studied history books and wandered out to sorry-sad spots, that he'd never be where he is now.

So to whatever extent there are sales right now, I'd venture to say that very few of them are doing well (as per oldies), unless they're getting coached by guys who grew-up-through the ranks.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 09:00PM
Tom_in_CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doc holiday Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Didn't the nyt just say that the hobby is explod
> in
> > g and detector sales are at an all time high???
>
>
> If so, perhaps this is simply a function of increa
> sed population as the decades go on ? I mean, g
> o figure, there's more sales of loaves of bread th
> an there were in the 1970s, for example. That's n
> ot a function of "more popularity". That's simply
> a function of increased population.
>
> All I know is this : I've seen many many guys get
> into the hobby, that have a dickens of a time gett
> ing silver. It's not like it was if you took up
> the hobby in the 1970s, when you might get silver
> at the "most obvious downtown parks" each time you
> went out. Granted, that was all easy 1940s/50s s
> ilver, and granted, it was not deep (since it was
> only out of circulation 30-ish years by then).
> But it was easy.
>
> I know a guy, right now, that has gotten very few
> mercs and silver roosies. But he's gotten a nice
> handful of seateds, a gold coin, etc.... already.
> And the ONLY reason (IMHO) that he "skipped to the
> head of the class" in that regard, is that he quic
> kly hooked up with some hardcore guys. So he has
> NEVER had the experience of turf hunting, clad hun
> ting, etc..... I'd venture to say that if he had
> not joined up with guys who had "done their 40 yr
> s. homework", and had simply studied history books
> and wandered out to sorry-sad spots, that he'd nev
> er be where he is now.
>
> So to whatever extent there are sales right now, I
> 'd venture to say that very few of them are doing
> well (as per oldies), unless they're getting coach
> ed by guys who grew-up-through the ranks.


I'm not so sure it's practical to judge one detecting skill based on quality finds or quantity of quality finds.
I can think of sites where jut locating a nonferrous target would take a lot of skill.
I guess I could say.
More gold coin finders using detectors out west.
More silver coins found in north east and perhaps Midwest.
So a person detecting in these regions, their success is based more on more of the coins gold and silver lost there.

There are some naturals that catch on faster with anything really.
Could be metal detecting.

Then there is this thing called time detecting.
Two equally high skilled detectorist one works more and the other detects more. So which one lliables odds wise to find more? So if we based just finds or quality of finds here we would be mislead.

This logic has been mentioned here before. Old timer detectorist are the ones that know how.

Just remember there are male golfers on pga tour that have NEVER won. Some not even a top 5 or 10 finish in any tournament.

It's not like all the detectorsiat get together and take a test, or have a competition hunt in the same general site area. To find out which is best.
Yeah some folks try to persuade folks they are one of the best detectorist.

Lot of things would go into the equation IMO for a computation of who the best is or even who is better. And time detecting just ONE part of the computation.

There are I'll bet some young engineers with little engineering experimence, some of them though have grand ideas and discoveries.
Like any occupation or field of endeavor.

So the detectorist who goes it alone leaning how to detect and makes a load of nicer finds, are they the " superior" one? Not enough data here to determine.

Some folks obviously get more older sites, even some perhaps virgin sites to detect. And yes they make a lot of more desirable finds.

Got news for folks, if all you do is hunt virgin sites, you'll either never really understand how tomrunnand interpret your metal detector or you will become complacent. Both would be BAD.

Then we could talk who maybe is better or best all arounder metal detectorist. You know the ones who do well at salt beaches, fresh water beaches, deep turf coin hunting, jewelry hunting parks and ball fields, gold nugget hunting, relics, etc.

Yeah some folks may be digging buckets of CW bullets and some detectorist don''t give a rats you know what.

Myself I try to read what all the detectorist that typically hunts different venues and items to see what they are saying. Some of what they may say could spill over say a relic hunter, some thing they say or experience could spill over to say coin hunting, etc.

I don't think anyone here has run all modles of vlf detectors ever made hence they haven't mastered them all either.

Yeah, I've been paying attention.
This gentleman named Cal Cobra who posts here.
How old is he and how long has he been detecting?
Seems like and I maybe wrong, he's been holding his own and or putting a hurting on the supposed mores years detecting detectorist who also post here.

I am glad NASA Tom posted in this thread.
Someone someday I would like to meet.

Cheers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2021 09:04PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 14, 2021 11:50PM
tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...
>
> Yeah, I've been paying attention.
> This gentleman named Cal Cobra who posts here.
> How old is he and how long has he been detecting?
> Seems like and I maybe wrong, he's been holding hi
> s own and or putting a hurting on the supposed mor
> es years detecting detectorist who also post here.
>

Good post tn-sharpshooter.

I wasn't really addressing skill-levels of various hobbyists. It was more along the lines of "staying power in the hobby". Ie.: likeliness to become addicted. And .... maybe I'm wrong .... but if all someone can ever find is junk and clad, that they're less likely to get addicted and progress into the hard-core ranks. Versus in the late 1970s to early 1980s, guys got addicted "overnight", when they were finding silver and/or wheaties on their first day out to the obvious parks. And after seeing that "glint of silver", then .... it's like a gambling addiction : More likely to get addicted to gambling if you win the first few times (which is why Las Vegas tosses out odds-increasing vouchers for your first few trips to the casino, eh ? eye rolling smiley ) Versus the guy who looses all his $ on his first try gambling, is more likely to say "This is for the birds, I don't like gambling".

As for this "Cal Cobra" feller : I dunno, I never met the guy. He seems like a rather suspicious character though >grinning smiley<
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 15, 2021 12:37AM
I've been detecting for 40 plus years and remember what it was like in the old days. I started with a Whites 2db and knew almost nothing beyond the basic operation from the manual. Not knowing any better, I hunted with the disc way up, and TR being TR, that meant I had an effective depth of about 2 inches. I started hunting my own 1920's-era elementary school where I was a sixth grader and always came home with 5-10 silvers. I knew all the places the kids used to hang out, so hit all those spots. I remember being able to tell where other detectorists had been by the paths of no targets, but 75% of the ground was still virgin. I'd also hunt churches and old house yards, with permission, of course. (Who could resist saying no to a 10-year old kid with a big smile?) There were days I'd get 20 silvers. Tom in CA probably doesn't believe me smiling bouncing smiley) but there were some days I'd come home with 20+ silvers ... yes, most of them 50's and early 60's Rosies, but still. I also distinctly remember sometimes spending my silvers on a candy bar or pack of gum at the five-and-dime. Even the clad was worth something. 25 cents would buy you a full size candy bar, pack of bubble gum, or soda. I remember when "inflation" caused candy bar prices to jump from 20 cents to 25 cents which meant I couldn't buy that extra piece of Bazooka bubble gum for 3 cents!

Anyway, yes, the early days are gone, all the public areas and most of the in-town yards have been cleaned out already. The days of easy silver are long gone. Even by the early 90's, it was getting VERY hard to find silver or any public virgin ground. That's when all those books started coming out on how to find new sites by doing research at the library, talking to the old-timers, etc., because by then, the easy stuff had already been found.

That said, the hobby isn't dead, but it's sure evolving. Forget the parks, schools, old house yards, and just about everything else that is in-town and easily accessible. About the only decent hunting left is the jewelry hunting. Anywhere that jewelry is replenished, beaches, sports fields, and such. Shallow gold hunting, I suppose it is. Fresh drops. The magic for me was finding those deepish old coins, and that type of hunting is pretty much gone these days. Jewelry hunting and some niche hunting like cache or old homesteads far in the back country is about it. So the hobby has definitely changed and it is still enjoyable with the right mindset. Those of us who can remember what it used to be like need to have a fresh outlook and see the hobby for what it is now and enjoy it for what it is. Still fun and magical, just different.

The breakthrough technology that will revolutionize and revitalize the hobby is being able to tell gold from aluminum. Maybe some algorithm using digital multi-frequency signals. In the meantime I find myself still going to parks, but not to detect, but to enjoy a nice day, reading a book, and a cold one or two in my comfy camp chair parked under a shade tree.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 15, 2021 01:13AM
When I was young and hunting with my dad I was digging up coins that I had no idea what they were. V nickels, Walkers, Barbers, and others. Oh that was fun times. Especially doing it with dad.

One thing that I thought would save the hobby was the introduction of high value coins. Like 5 dollar coins. Paper money never held well and I would gladly dig up dollar and 5 dollar coins. But the world has now gone digital. Parking meters at the beach are credit card operated. Everyone pays with debit cards. And look out here comes crypto currency.

Hunt your virgin sites. I'm glad you still have them. Most of us just ended up hunting the same sites with new detectors. But that became a bad investment rather quickly. I still get offers from others to hunt a permission they aquired. Very rarely do I accept. I have moved on to other hobbies, and to be honest unless it is yellow and worth big bucks I'll just be disappointed when I dig it.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 15, 2021 05:33PM
Bought my first detector in 98 a White's XLT. Didn't find but one Merc and a Rosie silver wise. Quite a bit of clad but the silver was tough. I had no clue and gave up.

Fast forward to 2017, and I still had the XLT and decided to give it another go. The woods at end of my street had a very old looking site with a cistern. I took the XLT in there and found flat buttons, lead, stirrup, CW button, 2 cent piece, and Seated dime! That's all it took. Hooked!

I only average about 30 silvers a year, but I'm fine with that. I have had several detectors since 2017. Settled on the Nox 800, and have 2 presently. I have found more mid to late 1800's coins than I thought I would. Several every year. Heck I'm happy with that.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 16, 2021 11:46AM
Tom and everyone, Thanks for your response and answers!

Tom do you think Nokta's new SMF will exceed the Equinox?
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 16, 2021 08:44PM
Kingfish......no...... I do not think so. And for two reasons: EMI & SNR. These two phenomenon(s) will inhibit exceeding the performance of the EQX. BUT........ I do believe the new SMF Nokta will possibly 'parallel' the performance of the EQX. Nokta is attempting to catch-up to the EQX. This is ALL my speculation....... and I hope I am wrong! I know they are working like crazy to 'get it right'....... AND attempting to exceed the Equinox ...... real-World...... performance-wise. (((Hence; a little bit of extra delays))).
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 17, 2021 01:31AM
The waterproof part will probably be better than Equinox. The balance issue has to be better than the Equinox. They are finally going Bluetooth and dropping that silly color coded headphone fiasco. That is a plus. The price I will guess here and say cheaper than the Equinox. So now what I need is sensitivity to gold. Something the Equinox has on FBS machines of the past including FBS 2 and the CTX. It is better than than BBS as well. Will it deal with bottle caps better than the Equinox? So there are a few areas where this new machine can make a statement.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 17, 2021 12:42PM
I do feel the waterproofness of the simplex is much better than the equinox. I like that there are some aftermarket shafts for the simplex . These should be usable on the new SMF. If the new machine equals the equinox, then many will jump ship I feel. Simplex for me has better ergonomics.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 19, 2021 08:10AM
Many including myself found the Nox had a marked jump in performance over other detectors I've used, especially in more mineralized ground for small hammered coins.
I'd say the Nok/Mak offering would need to have the same marked jump in performance over the Nox for many to even consider buying/swapping to it, especially in the UK as the Nox is a proven top performer.
The Garrett Apex failed to gain any traction over here.
Personally, slight improvements in ergos, rods, headphone connectivity etc with no improvement in actual performance wouldn't sway me at all, no matter if it was half the price.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 20, 2021 12:58PM
New detector platforms need to be software upgradeable, like cell phones and computers, because that is what they are. I’ll never buy a new detector that requires a hardware upgrade to gain a feature set that should be software enabled. I wonder how many upgrades the NOX will eventually get before that hardware is wrung out?
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 20, 2021 02:42PM
Yeah,
I got the 3rd degree by some on this forum when I started preaching about making updatable detectors.
Fast forward. Notice how much it cost to ship? Loads.
Imagine a detector company having 75,000 units released and wallah a glitch is discovered or some thing changed where detector performance is enhanced.
Wonder what it would cost to ship those. 75,000 detectors?

The testers of updatable detectors are in hog heaven IMO with updatable detectors. They can use the new and the old version and give input and or see effects. Not pack around a bunch of detectors with different configured software.

Notice Garrett did update with Apex. How refreshing.

We can thank Xp for getting the ball rolling here.

In the end more satisfied customers IMO.
And less headache potential for manufacturers.

Y'all have a nice day.

PS
My crystal ball seems is working.
You'll see more to prove eventually.
I am feeling more and more vindicated with each passing day.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2021 02:46PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 21, 2021 01:30PM
TNSS---you are a man before his time---and this is meant as a Compliment. Enjoy all your good info.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 21, 2021 06:15PM
ghound. True. Very exacting statement(s).
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 22, 2021 10:57AM
Will a cell phone ever be considered .... as a replacement for the current box? Apps have a lot of versatility especially for those not used in the water. Apps also generate advertising.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 22, 2021 09:57PM
Not for the near-future.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 30, 2021 03:13PM
Hello everybody...long time no see. No, I'm not back into detecting. Just thought I'd take the time to chime in on this thread.

The harsh reality is that I believe what someone else said is true; this is a dying hobby for those in the US. I say that because at one point, there were several guys around here locally that detected pretty hard core. Multiple machines; always buying the newest thing like I used to. None of them are into it anymore. The reason is simply, all the sites are gone and the likely hood of finding some place new is very very low. I was down to just two sites I could go to and find Civil War relics. In fact, some of you know the site I always found the Civil War bullets at. The bad dirt testing grounds. Well I happened to be down in that area a few weeks ago and it is completely gone now. It currently has 8 new houses sitting on it, and looked to be cleared for more in the immediate future. This has been the story for the past couple of decades locally...all the sites were disappearing at a rapid pace. We started venturing out of state and going to the organized hunts, but even those are starting to peter out now and probably wont be around for much longer. Yes, there are some areas of the US where hunting is still good but it wasn't that long ago when it was great here as well. If I had a detector here now, the only place I would be able to use it is select freshwater beaches and on vacation to the beach. That's it. Time and progress has simply outran detector technology. Even if they were to build the finest and best detector to date; it can't turn back the hands of time to where sites didn't have houses or stores built on top of them. At any rate; was nice checking in and reading posts. Ya'll take care...the fish are calling me away.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
June 30, 2021 03:27PM
It's just a matter of time before the beaches are closed to like most public spots. I could see this coming as not a hobby meant to goe mainstream like yuppie golf.
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
July 01, 2021 02:01AM
No........ the hobby is not dropping off; but/rather maintaining/growing. Detector numbers/sales are the tell-all.

I've always felt that 'new sites' are getting harder-and-harder to find; yet, myself and several others are succeeding fairly well with new sites.

And the European Bloc....... is certainly growing.

(((Beach detectorist volume is nearly astronomical!!!)))
Re: Tom, what does our future hold?
July 01, 2021 04:33PM
I wouldn't get so hung up on detector sales being up to be the tell all. Because all outdoor gear sales are up. Boats. Campers. ATVs. Camping gear. Kayaks. Boat dealer lots are almost bare; I had to order my boat and wait 5 months on it to come in. Covid made people start looking local for activities to do instead of travel; whether it be camping, boating, etc. In fact, the day I went to pick my boat up, the dealer had it sitting outside to go over everything on it with me. We were there about an hour and in that hour, there were 5 different vehicles pulled in wanting to buy my boat. People even took to buying and learning music instruments like never before because they were stuck at home quarantined. We set out to buy my wife a guitar and every guitar shop within 120 miles of here was sold out of guitars. Not just guitars, but banjos, and even the ukulele! The answer was always the same...can't keep things on the rack; as soon as it comes in, somebody buys. So I think it's quite possible that sales are up all over the board. The boat dealer said their sales were up nearly 20% from last year (2020) and that 2020 was up 12% from what 2019 was. Don't know if you have priced boats, but they start about the $25,000 range for 18 foot aluminum and easily get into the $80,000 range for a bass boat. They can't keep em on the lot. Vehicles...same way. What I think is going to happen is that everybody has jumped into these new toys and hobbies, and will soon fizzle out. Just like guitar playing...over 70% of the people that pick one up, will quit. I wouldn't look for an explosion of bluegrass bands within the next few years and I wouldn't bank on people that bought detectors, to continue in it for long either. They'll probably be closet mates to the guitars and or the market places flooded with them soon. Once people poke around a few times in their yard and local parks and not find anything much; that'll be that.
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