Can high conductors, copper and silver be seen as a low to mid conductors when very deep? range conductors uctor of it self?

Interesting thread. I've been using the 600 for the last 3 years or so, not the 800, so I don't have quite the same flexibility.

I've found that when emi severely restricts my ability to use a higher sensitivity, I can often detect at 25 or close to it if I go to single frequency in 10 khz or 15 khz. As Tom said, single frequency has a notable negative effect on accurate ID though. I do find myself digging more bad targets when I detect in a single frequency. Going to the 6-in coil will also seriously mitigate emi.

I generally carry an extra 6-in coil with the middle rod attached for easy switch over, but I don't usually bring a different detector. I've been wowed by the Equinox ability to consistently find deep good targets with the 11 inch when emi is not too bad.

Another thing, I switched from using 5 tone to 50 tone shortly after I got The Nox. In a little while I was happy to discover how well my ears trained to hear the different 50 tones. In the beginning, I never imagined I would be able to say hey that's a primarily 12-13 signal just by the tone.

I've found that when I get a very bouncy five bar deep signal, if I only get a few high numbers as I rotate and the high numbers are in the minority, it's definitely worth a go!

Johnny........same here.

Whom/what ever corporate entity that harnesses EMI.....will be the market WINNER.

Yes...Co-located iron will down average high conductors......but iron minerals will up-average high conductors.

I first saw this back in 2005 with my DFX. I was hunting dry river sand in 15kHz and was getting lots of of -95, -94 iron target responses. After a while I recovered one for grins and it was a 3" deep quarter. I switched back to Best Data and retraced my steps and most of the -95 -94 targets were shallow quarters the minerals were floating into iron.

The Fisher CoinStrike was arguably the best single frequency coin detector in iron minerals as the high conductor range was expanded so that it would keep high conductors in the high conductor range longer than any detector on the market. A dime would normally air test about a 28 VDI. Large high conductors would read about 33/34....maybe as high as a 38. In some of my dirt I was hunting in the deeper 8" dimes would be reading 42, a signal that would be iron on any other detector.

Dimitar should revamp the CoinStrike user interface and re-introduce it.

HH
Mike

I witness what Mike mentioned above this week end testing in a newly constructed high mineral test bed. It was surprising for me to see it. The Tarsacci MDT 8000 in Mixed mode would give a nice smooth response on the AM side but the Disc tone was struggling. What was surprising was that the TID was locked on -30 except for when I got an intermittent Disc tone. 6" Cu cent, 8" clad Quarter or 10" 50 cal bullet. -31 with good stable settings & very modest sensitivity. Wonder how many of those I have ignored?

Chris

Mike......... the Tarsacci is a MUCH advanced Coin$trike.....with some differences! You will see/experience some 'bloodline'.

Chris.......... In your newly designed test-garden, I'm anxious for you to tune/adjust/play with Black Sand ON/OFF.........in concert with adjusting Salt Balance!

NASA Tom, I intend to & more. So far Black Sand on smooths out any ground variations & hot rocks & helps on EMI BUT kills those struggling good targets. There is more to learn for sure on how it all works together.

Chris

Johnnyanglo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's been my experience with deep high-conductors
> in mineralized soils that TID is down-averaged tow
> ard iron. The problem with wrap-around for me was
> always with iron nails, where the bent portion or
> pointy tips cause a high TID response or chirp whi
> le also a low grunt. The high-tone chirps are not
> repeatable and distinctly not similar to non-ferro
> us, but bothersome all the same. I've never tested
> if a high-conductor might up-average across the TI
> D boundary into iron. If it does happen I'd expect
> to get enough solid high-tones to dig anyway and I
> 'd assume the low-tones were nearby iron rather th
> an wrap-around from the non-ferrous target. But it
> would be interesting to test and find out.

This matches my experience, Johnny -- exactly.

(Except that some square nails, when they wrap back into the high conductive space, DO sound pretty good at times, and not-so-distinctly-non-similar to high conductors! )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2022 12:21AM by steveg.

In general, we can divide mineralization into 3 types ...

1.Type is Magnetic / magnetite-black sand / mineralization ..
2 Type is Iron / red hematite / mineralization
3. Conductive Terrain ../, coal, coke, burnt wood, fertilizers /

Type of mineralization 1. IN MAGNETIT / TYPE BLACK SAND / mineralization ... I will have all types of conductors with increasing depth .. effect of increasing VDI ...
... while the most significant effect of increasing VDI will have very highly conductive objects ... / coins / and in many cases VDI can be moved to the zone of small iron .....

One of the easiest ways to eliminate this phenomenon to a large extent is to use the detector to set the hot rock to + ..., which will help to "straighten VDI targets back to the non-ferrous zone. The effect of this setting is really good ...

Another good option is to use the optimal frequency for a given type of conductor ... in this case you can use for high-conductivity silver coins .. low frequencies from 4khz to 7 khz .... because in magnetic mineralization we need to get the strongest inductive response from the high-conductivity target. .

Use a sufficiently high ground filter / recovery speed / in the detector to be able to substantially eliminate the signal from the mineralization of the terrain ... that is also important ...

The combination of these 3 settings really works quite efficiently ...

Note ... IF you detect Low conductors use high frequencies ...

The effect of Magnetic Mineralized Terrain can be visually compared to a similar effect as a 3D deep separation test ... the correct frequency for a given target can improve the separation properties of the detector for this target.

2. In the mineralization of Type 2 -iron RED -HEMATITE mineralization, high-conductivity coins will not rise so much, but with increasing depth, all conductors will decrease VDI ... and it will be most noticeable visibly on Low-conductivity objects ... which will quickly pass from small depths to very low VDI to zero ... and then very often they pass to the iron zone ...

it is also the effect of a strongly mineralized red brick ..

For highly conductive coins, this effect is less visible, but in the deep depths we finally get the effect of low VDI ..- because the deep target is surrounded by iron from the ground which reduces the object ID- it is similar to the Monte performance Nailboard test ...- in this case The higher and higher frequency used can better detect any conductor that is in Red Hematite / Iron / Mineralization.

To achieve good and optimal detection results, use the high Ground filter-recovery speed ,,, which helps in detection in such terrain ...

3. Of course, there are other types of mineralization, such as strongly conductive terrain, whether it is already contaminated with coal, coke, black smoke ceramics. or burnt wood ,,, or it is a terrain heavily loaded with fertilizers ... which can also severely reduce VDI objects ... this effect of reducing VDI targets can also be really significant ...

in this case, it will help to use a low frequency for the detector ,,, or use a program of the Salt / Beach type ...

Thank you EL NINO for being quite informative on the different mineralizations. So then if these 3 are the basic forms of ground mineralization, am I able to tell what type of mineralization is in my soil?
I know I have very little top soil, maybe 6-8 inches and the rest is an orange clay. Im thinking the iron red hematite possibly. With my Equinox 800 I do ground balance at a consistant number around my yard 20-30s. And I think EMI is messing with these numbers.
Now with some detectors out there that are able to measure mineralization, are they really measuring the type of mineralization or are they measuring the amount or severity of the mineralization in the soil?
I know I have used a magnet before to see the individual iron pieces [mineralization] that I pulled out of on our fresh water beach sand. Now can one do that if I was to dry out and pulverize a lump of my ground clay? Would that material be magnetized? Thanks, Steve

I have been trying to learn about my different soils' mineralization also. It is a large factor in the detector performance I see on different sites.
My sand sites are much easier to get good depth & TID. My red dirt sites exhibit a noticeable reduction in depth & accurate TID. They vary from deep to no top soil over red orange clay. Under this are layers of Iron ore rock. Primarily Hematite with some Maghemite, Limonite down deeper. Some areas can even have Siderite. In disturbed areas you can get some hot rocks close to the surface. If I run a magnet through this soil it comes out fuzzy with natural iron. And then you have all the 150 year old cut nails & bits.
I recently built a test bed with this same red dirt. It has been interesting & informative so far. Like you have witnessed, I get TIDs skewed up to wrap around to the lowest Iron #s.

Chris

glasartisan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you EL NINO for being quite informative on t
> he different mineralizations. So then if these 3 a
> re the basic forms of ground mineralization, am I
> able to tell what type of mineralization is in my
> soil?
> I know I have very little top soil, maybe 6-8 inc
> hes and the rest is an orange clay. Im thinking th
> e iron red hematite possibly. With my Equinox 800
> I do ground balance at a consistant number around
> my yard 20-30s. And I think EMI is messing with th
> ese numbers.
> Now with some detectors out there that ar
> e able to measure mineralization, are they really
> measuring the type of mineralization or are they m
> easuring the amount or severity of the mineralizat
> ion in the soil?
> I know I have used a magnet before to see the i
> ndividual iron pieces [mineralization] that I pull
> ed out of on our fresh water beach sand. Now can o
> ne do that if I was to dry out and pulverize a lum
> p of my ground clay? Would that material be magnet
> ized? Thanks, Steve

greetings ..Steve....I will try to answer your question
1. When measuring terrain mineralization type Magnetit or Black Sand - you can use detectors / Fisher Gold bug, F75, XP Deus or ORX, Whites Spectra * V3 ... which have a mineralization meter calibrated to Fe3O4 / magnetite / ..
Such a measurement is relatively accurate and agrees with the real demands of Mineralization of the terrain ...
At the same time, after such a measurement .. you know very accurately how practical the depth of the detector will reach in such a terrain ...
the real range of a really well-set Top detector ... can drop by up to 40%, sometimes% 60% compared to the range of the detector in normal low-terrain terrain ...

When mineralizing 5% magnetite / 7 bar Fisher Gold Bug..or a full list of mineralization on Deus / ORX you can rattle with a reduced range of about 45-50%



2. When measuring red iron mineralization of the Hematite type with these detectors ..- which has a Fe3O4 / magnetite / meter, you must know one important thing - even highly concentrated * it does not have such strong magnetic effects. - rather it is about influencing the target by the effects of iron ...

. If the detector meter on the hematite base is only 50-60% full, then there is one really very high mineralization which you can no longer underestimate during detection ... and which will significantly reduce VDI targets downwards ...

... One of the simplest tests .. how to find out what kind of mineralization you have ....
is to bury a coin 5 cent nickel / small low conductor / and also a silver dime at the level of 6 "/ small high conductor / in such a terrain ... and you will see if the VDI targets at this depth will rise or fall ...

since they are smaller coins, the effect of the terrain will have a more significant effect on them ...

as far as Equinox is concerned ... so I would still try to test different programs Type 1 and Type2 on Equinox on your buried targets.. and compare them with each other ... and also compare them on All metall and Discrimination 0 ...in difficult mineralized terrain you have to use jump recovery speed 6-7 ..and low Iron Bias F2 to 0-3 max ..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2022 07:16PM by EL NINO.

OK EL NINO, I think I'm starting to see this. So with this test of burying a nickel and a silver dime at 6 inches separately, I'm looking at the VDI #s to go up or down. If they drop down into the lower mid conductors or even iron range is this telling me I have hematite type soil. But if the ground has magnetite wont that bring the VDI #s down also?
If my ground is predominantly clay, can I assume it is hematite or can you have magnetic magnetite within this clay? Thanks, Steve