Steve's Detector Rods Deus 2 Shaft Project

Hi all!

With the increased discussion of the Deus 2 here (and in light of NASA-Tom's Deus "field testing" thread), I thought I'd start a discussion on the shaft project I'm working on, for the D2, as I continue to receive tons of questions, and interest. There have been shaft-specific comments/concerns/questions raised in the "field-testing" thread here on the forum, and I know most folks reading that thread want to learn about the OPERATION of the unit, not things about the shaft, per se. So, I thought I'd start this thread, to talk a bit about the shaft I've designed for the D2, and which is currently moving through the testing phase toward completion/production in as timely a manner as possible (early this fall is the target, barring any unforeseen/unexpected major design changes arising from the field test stage).

My goal with this shaft, as is the case with each shaft that I design, is to "maintain" what is "good" about the factory shaft, and then offer improvements for aspects of the shaft that I feel are less than optimal. This project has been a challenge, as for one, I'm not a Deus user, and additionally, it has required an entire re-design of all parts and pieces -- as my shaft will utilize round (carbon-fiber) tubes, whereas of course the XP stock shaft uses tubes of "trapezoidal" shape.

In general, I have endeavored to maintain as much of the "feel" of the stock XP shaft as possible, so that there's some "familiarity" there for Deus users. For instance, the handle -- though mine will be an all-carbon-fiber handle -- is similarly shaped to the one on the stock shaft. I also like the "collapsibility" that XP incorporated into the stock shaft, and so I kept that idea; mine will "collapse" in a similar way to what the stock shaft does (i.e. via a cam lock, the middle section can be slid back, toward the "arm cuff end" of the shaft, so as to reduce the "footprint" of the machine for easy transport). The stock shaft is also light weight -- which I am seeking to maintain by utilizing an all-carbon-fiber design (though I am not sure yet what the final, total weight will be -- but I expect it to be equal to, or slightly lighter than, the stock shaft).

However, there are some "flaws" which I noted in the brief "examination" I performed on the D2 shaft, along with some areas for improvement, and I've also made note of other flaws/potential areas for improvement which have been pointed out to me by some Deus users with whom I've engaged in some discussion. These include:

1. The shaft is too short for a sizeable number of taller users
2. There is excessive "flex" in the lower rod, especially when extended to near maximum length
3. The "stand" below the arm cuff is not tall enough to allow the machine to rest "upright," and thus is essentially useless
4. Many "water hunters" want the ability to run the antenna wire to the control box in an "inside the shaft" manner
5. The "thumb motion" required to access the buttons on the remote is unnecessarily awkward, due to the fact that the remote, when mounted on the shaft, protrudes too far "back toward the user/away from the handle," as opposed to the front face of the remote being more "flush" with the handle
6. Somewhat insecure attachment of the remote-control mount, which allows the potential for the remote to become inadvertently dislodged

So, the above 6 items are among those I'm seeking to address; below are the characteristics I expect my shaft to offer...

1. Maximized "collapsibility" (similar to the stock shaft)
2. Light weight (all components of my shaft, with the exception of the remote-control mount, the cam locks, the end cap, and the lower rod "clevis" where the coil bolt fits through) will be carbon fiber -- to include the tubes, the handle, and the arm cuff/stand.
3. Customizability (including the option for longer shaft sections, to fit taller users)
4. Stiff, stable, flex-free carbon-fiber tubes
5. Taller stand, to allow the machine to rest in proper, upright position
6. The option for internal routing of the antenna cable (still working out the details)
7. A more "recessed" position of the remote-control mount, relative to the handle, which will allow the front face of the remote to be more "flush" to the handle; this will enable easier, more comfortable access to the remote control buttons
8. I'm working on the possibility of a "locking" remote control mount, to more properly secure the remote control to the shaft (this is still being worked on).

The shaft will initially be available in black color, but I expect to offer at least some colored options in the future. I am hoping to have the field testing completed by the end of September, and -- barring no changes that would require major redesign, which I'm not expecting -- am aiming to have the first production run of shafts available by late October. Given the complexity of the shaft, plus the custom, all-carbon-fiber components (including handle and arm cuff/stand), the shaft will be more expensive than other shafts I offer; I expect introductory pricing to be around $229 plus shipping.

I'll attach a few pictures of a prototype shaft I assembled; aside from the tubes, the other components (including handle and cuff) of the pictured prototype are 3D-printed "test" parts (not production-grade). The parts were only intended for fitment testing, to ensure proper fit prior to investment in the necessary carbon-fiber and plastic injection molds. As such, please ignore the white-colored remote control mount (it will be black), the gray upper cam lock (it will be black), and the fact that the handle and arm cuff are 3D-printed plastic. Also note that the arm cuff has been reduced in size for the production model. However, the picture shows the basic design of the shaft, for reference purposes.

If you have any questions, or suggestions, I'd love to hear them. If you are interested in purchase of one of the shafts once they are ready, and want to let me know ahead of time, I'm happy to make note of that, so that you can be included in the initial production run.

Thanks all!

Steve









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2022 03:45AM by steveg.

Steveg, luv you man. What can I say, that's awesome!! Who does this?? Your passion is unbeatable, well done sir!

That looks very nicely made.

Chris

Ozzie -- thank you, sir! I love our hobby, and I've always loved problem-solving. Plus, my father instilled in me a love for building/fixing things, and working with tools. And so, designing and building shafts is a place where all of those interests are allowed to converge. And that this "convergence" of interests results in the creation of items that can help fellow detectorists to enjoy this terrific hobby just a little bit more, makes it most rewarding!

JCR -- thank you, sir!

Good looking rod. I must say I'm surprised it's not a Straight Shaft design. lol

When Steve finishes this rod, it will be the best Deus rod on the market. How do I know this you ask? I know Steve and have 3 of his rods...2 for the EQX and 1 for my scoop. Top of the line all the way and when the Deus rod is available, I'll have 2 of those as well.

Soldier on Steve.....

Looks fantastic, going to be a great after market replacement. Looking forward to it, Thanks Steve!

Are you 3D printing the holder for the Remote?
If so maybe make the locking one like Calabash and a few other have.
Looks good just like it is too.

Tom Slick Wrote:
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> Good looking rod. I must say I'm surprised it's no
> t a Straight Shaft design. lol


Tom, LOL! I assume you prefer the S-shaft design?

Steve

ColonelDan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Steve finishes this rod, it will be the best
> Deus rod on the market. How do I know this you as
> k? I know Steve and have 3 of his rods...2 for th
> e EQX and 1 for my scoop. Top of the line all the
> way and when the Deus rod is available, I'll have
> 2 of those as well.
>
> Soldier on Steve.....

THANKS for the kind words, Colonel! I appreciate it!

Steve

Gary in Daytona Wrote:
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> Looks fantastic, going to be a great after market
> replacement. Looking forward to it, Thanks Steve!


THANKS, Gary!

Steve

GreenMeanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you 3D printing the holder for the Remote?
> If so maybe make the locking one like Calabash and
> a few other have.
> Looks good just like it is too.

The remote-control mount will be 3D-printed initially, most likely WITHOUT any locking mechanism initially. BUT -- I'm working on the locking issue, and hope to have that worked out/designed in the near future. At that point, I'll be planning to have those injection-molded.

Thanks!

Steve

An update.

A surprise arrived today, that will now allow me to get the field-test prototypes sent out to testers soon...



The arm cuffs were produced by my supplier with matte finish, not glossy, by mistake -- but they'll be glossy (to match the rest of the shaft) in the production model.

Thanks, all!

Steve

I just finished assembling the first shaft (to be sent out for field testing soon). Total weight of the shaft, everything included except a coil, and with remote control NOT attached (but with remote control mount included) is 16.3 oz. total weight.

I'm not sure how this compares, in an "apples to apples" way to the stock shaft (no coil, no remote attached), but perhaps someone can chime in?

Thanks!

Steve











Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2022 03:08PM by steveg.

Sweet looking shaft! Aerodynamic and hi tech look and it looks like you already addressed a few of the issues mentioned by D2 users. I for one, hope that your remote mount will hold the remote better than the original I got. I can pop that remote off by doing a single ‘noise cancel’ by pushing too hard. That little ‘feature’ is annoying. I bought a lockable one but I may just wait before installing it to see how yours works out.
Also, when/if you get to that point, can you show one with the antenna mounted through the shaft. I know this may not be included in your initial shaft setups, but I’d like to see how you envision the setup.

TIA Steve.

Gary,

Thanks!

As for the remote-control mount, I'm working on a locking one. It won't be available upon initial release, I don't think, but I'm working on it. Initially, my mount will be very similar to the stock mount, so probably not an improvement there, yet.

As for the antenna wire running through the shaft, I am working on that as well. If you look closely, you'll see a rubber grommet, on top of the middle shaft tube, just forward from the upper cam lock. That's my first iteration of an "exit location" for the antenna wire; it enters into a similar hole with rubber grommet on the underside of the lower rod, down near the bottom of the rod. The issue, is that the rubber grommet on the middle shaft, prevents the middle shaft from collapsing (sliding rearward, through the handle) for transport. Without the grommet there, my shaft will collapse in a very similar way to th way the stock Deus shaft does. But, with that grommet there, that means that in order to collapse it for travel, you'd have to remove that rubber grommet. Not a big deal, but it may not be "ideal." Without having a Deus 2 myself, it's hard to know exactly what would work best, be most "convenient," etc., in terms of entry and exit points, etc. But, I think those are things that can be answered better during the field testing. One thing I will say, is that my plan is for the "standard" shaft NOT to include the holes for running the antenna wire, since land hunters don't need it. So, I think I'll offer it as an optional thing, for any water hunters who prefer it. But still, the details of entry and exit point will need to be worked out, hopefully during testing.

Thoughts?

Steve

Hi there Steve, I have your rod for the equinox and have been very happy thus far. Quality craftsmanship I must say.
Im a water hunter most of the time when I can get out. The antenna your talking about. How I run my Deus 2, antenna enters the bottom in the original wide slot they have on lower shaft and up the shaft and out the actual shoe clip that holds remote. I drilled a hole on top side of. I think it was about a 1/4 inch hole. Drilled into actual remote mounting shoe, top side not the upper shaft like you are showing with the grommet inserted. I dont think that the hole I drilled will affect the strength of shoe. No problems yet. This way now possibly the shafts can be fully telescoping, open/closed. On mine my upper shaft no longer moves, frozen from sand ingestion. My lower shaft still telescopes but not quite all the way because the antenna needs to go somewhere when you shrink the lower shaft up into mid/upper shaft. Some of the antenna wire does work its way out of the hole in the shoe as I collapse upper and lower shaft. Not at all a big deal if I cant fully shrink down. Maybe I could fully close if the upper shaft of mine would slide towards the cuff but its frozen. Just don't want to end up kinking up the antenna when sliding lower into upper. Maybe this might help you with relocating the upper hole. Im sure I will be a buyer when you put forth your product. Thank you for your well thought out efforts. Steve

Steve,

Thank you kindly for your thoughts, and sharing your method for routing the cable up through the shaft.

This is one of the ways I've considered, also -- a hole in the mount that the remote control attaches to. It's a fine idea. The only issue is, I'm ALSO simultaneously trying to address the issue where the remote can rather easily be bumped and dislodged inadvertently from the mount (according to several Deus users who have reached out to me). And so, their desire, and mine, is to design a "locking" type of mount. And right now, the only type of locking system I can see that would work well, is something similar to a couple of ones already on the market, where a small "extension" is added to the top of the mount, with a threaded hole in this extension. Into this extension fits a screw, and this screw secures a small "locking plate," so to speak, that can be adjusted so as to fit just above the top of a small "protrusion" in the back of the remote control. Then, with that "locking plate" in proper position at the top of the protrusion in the back of the remote, you tighten the screw, and it locks the remote to the mount -- it can't inadvertently become dislodged.

The PROBLEM, then, is that designing a mount where a screw fits into the top of the mount, would interfere with the idea of placing a hole in the mount, to allow the antenna wire to exit the shaft. In other words, solving one of these problems interferes with the way I'm trying to solve ANOTHER problem!

Thoughts?

Steve

Hey Steve, I understand. What about drilling on either left or right side of shoe if top side cant work because of clamp devise? Or drill thru the handle so as the hole will go thru the part of shoe that sits into upper handle being held by the 2 tiny screws. You would have to make sure the drill hole is far enough away from the 2 mount screws.3/16 or 1/4 inch hole at most.

Hey Steve, there are times where I would like to take the control off the handle and actually wear it around my neck, to make it easier to see the control screen because of the deep water that I wade into. Up to my neck/chest in a lot of cases. But then I have to deal with the antenna. Instead of having my antenna coming out thru the shoe currently, does your shaft design allow for the antenna to run thru the handle and down the arm cuff tube and out the plug end? Antenna would then go up to my chest area where control would hang. I don't know if your handle is entirely hollow inside or does it have inner gussets molded in, preventing the antenna from going all the way thru to backside plug that I would drill then? Thanks, Steve

Steve,

My remote-control mount will be epoxied to the tube; it won't use the screws, like the stock mount. Screws won't work well, on a round tube -- the tube could not slide through the handle due to the screw heads. So, I'm epoxying it in place, instead. I don't know of a real reason to have to remove the mount, except that it would be easily replaceable if damaged. With my shaft, if the mount were to become damaged, I'd just have to replace the middle shaft tube, as well (the tube that the mount is installed).

Not being able to remove the mount,and putting a hole into the side of the mounting shoe, would make fishing the antenna cable up through the shaft a bit tricky; you'd have to fish down through the mount, and through the shaft, with a string, and then attach the string to the cable and fish it back up through. But, it should work just fine.

Yes, the handle is hollow, so YES, you could run the antenna cable the other way, for "chest mounting" the remote -- i.e. down through the handle, through the "bottom" tube where the cuff attaches, and out through the back end...

Steve

Ok Steve, I'm anxiously awaiting the finished product. Thanks again for your efforts. Steve

Steve,

Thank you, for your interest!

Steve

I'm gonna have one of those!

I’m no engineer Steve, and didn’t play one in the movies lol. But my thoughts are to keep polling the users of the D2 on what is the most important things to resolve with your shaft down to the least important. I don’t think most will buy it for less weight because the original shaft is pretty light already, so IMHO, they will buy it for improvements to the original design such as additional length, etc. In my world, I dislike the antenna external run the most, and would like to return the ‘collapsible’ nature of the original coil. I didn’t know how much I’d dislike the wire wrapped around the shaft, and I sure didn’t want to buy a ‘wireless’ detector just to wire it back up again to use it in the water. That was was downer for me, and the most important things to fix because I DO use the detector in the water a lot. The remote ‘ejection’ problem is second most important to me, but can be fixed already with aftermarket approaches including your idea. I’m wondering if the ‘set’ screw is the only way to fix this issue so as to retain the internal antenna configuration on the same shaft.
In the ideal world, I’d have like to have 2 shaft setups with an XP coil already installed, one WITH the antenna for water use, and one WITHOUT to use on inland hunting. I don’t want to carry the antenna - inside or outside the shaft - into the words or fields that I would detect inland. I’d leave the stock shaft behind and use your shaft as the second. That would be the ideal for me. I am awaiting XP to sell additional coils so that I can achieve that configuration, but they may be months away. So, for me personally I would prefer to be able to run the antenna work internal, and if you can’t do it without modding the shaft, then I’d probably wait for the next iteration.
Just my .02, I know the way I use the D2 is different than others do, and they may not care much about the antenna wire ‘fix’ at all.

Thanks Steve looking forward to seeing what you come up with either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 03:09PM by Gary in Daytona.

Capphd Wrote:
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> I'm gonna have one of those!


Capphd -- we can certainly make that happen!

Thanks!

Steve

Gary,

Tell me a bit more about your antenna wire thoughts. You said "if you can't do it without 'modding' the shaft." I am not sure what you mean by "modding," from the perspective that technically, I guess, adding an "entry hole" in the lower rod is "modding" the shaft, right? Or did you mean, you wouldn't want to have to "mod" it yourself?

I am thinking about possibly having the antenna wire running out the side of the mounting "shoe," with the locking mechanism on top. OH -- and by the way, I made a major move forward toward achieving the locking mount. One of the folks that makes them, in the UK, has graciously agreed to collaborate/share with me, which really helps -- since I don't have a D2 remote control to take measurements of. They offered me their drawings, and since my shaft is round, and they are making their mount for the Deus "trapezoidal" shaft, we are not competing with each other, so to speak. His mount works only on the Deus shaft, and the one I'll make will only work with mine. So, now that I have his permission, I'm going to borrow ideas/measurements from the "locking portion" of his mount, and incorporate them into my drawing. So -- that part looks to be solved; I'll have a few 3D prints made first, to test, to confirm. The first "production" ones will likely also be 3D-printed, but I'll be looking to have an injection mold made in the near future, for producing the locking mount. And, I am near certain that including a hole in the side of the mount will not be an issue.

Also, I have already compiled such a list of "priorities," as you mentioned, based on both user feedback, and my own impressions of the shaft after a brief hands-on examination -- but I'm always open to additional suggestions. If you'd like to see my list, and the improvements I'm making relative to the stock shaft, I have it written up in a "blog" post, on my website, at [www.stevesdetectorrods.com]; it's the most recent entry. Give it a read, if you like, and if you do, let me know what you think. I agree, the weight was not the primary focus for improvement, because as you say, the D2 shaft is ALREADY light. It is more the other improvements I'm making, that I think folks will appreciate.

By the way, question for all -- if I make a hole in the side of the mount, for the antenna wire, would the left side, or right side, be better, or does it matter (i.e. left or right being as you are facing the control box).

Finally, Gary, you said something about "returning to the collapsible nature of the original coil." Can you elaborate? As a non-Deus user, I am not familiar with what you are referring to, there...

Thanks!

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 03:50PM by steveg.

Sure, I think I can explain. To make it easy, I don’t want to MOD a brand new Steve shaft. I’m not handy and I could figure out a way to mess up a 1/4” drill hole lol, so I would prefer not to mod my original either. The ideal for me would be to have the shaft come ready to run an antenna wire as is. You mentioned you probably wouldn’t do that at first, so I’d probably wait until I can get that configuration.

Sounds like you’re thinking outside the box on the mount configuration. That’s awesome! My thoughts were that if the screw lock was getting in the way, then figure a different way to lock it (he said like it was easy, but I know it isn’t).

I don’t care where the hole is on the shaft, but it would seem to be the bottom would be the least visible and less obtrusive to users, other’s may differ.

I believe you’ve already addressed the collapsible nature issue. It’s just that the fact that the D2 will backpack (or close to it) when collapsed is a very nice feature I would like to retain and it seems you’re will do that.

Thanks, I will check out your website and see the thoughts. I read some on DetectorProspector, but I can’t keep up with all of them, too many threads and not enough time.

Gary,

GOT IT! Now it all makes sense.

Yes, my shaft will collapse like the D2 does, though mine being longer, it won't collapse quite as short. I CAN build it to "Deus stock shaft length" for anyone who prefers, so no problem there, if you wanted it shorter.

I am going to do everything I can to have locking mounts ready at the start of production. And right now, I'm thinking that the "through the side of the mount" option, for the antenna cable, may be the best option for the exit point. The entry point I plan to be on the underside of the lower rod. I will also note, if I didn't yet, that I plan the "inside the cable antenna run" option to be "optional," for anyone who wants it. But the standard shaft, I'm thinking, won't include that. Not sure on that yet, and any feedback from anyone would be welcome.

Thanks!

Steve

Check your web site Steve for pics I sent you. Hi there Steve, wanted to do this on Dankowski forum but I couldn't figure out for the life of wife and I how to get these pics posted. Kept getting a unsafe site message. Thought these might help. It could be a little cramped with the headphone jack on the left side if you were to route the antenna over there. Right side is open but you can see my safety cord there. That's not a big deal. Look on top of the control and you can see the antenna shoe clip that holds antenna in place. It appears that the antenna can be routed thru on this clip from either direction. Hope this helps you Steve. Steve