MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

"shoveler........... The percent of EQX failures is truly not that high. EMPLOY THE WARRANTY!!!! That's what it is for!!!"

I'm a skeptic Tom or , maybe "not that high" is a relative term , but of the 4 people I know that use/used a NOX , we have gone through 11 machines and 5 of those never saw water. Warranties are fine if they are still in effect but no one now dares to put an out of warranty machine under water. Half the reasons you gave above for the creation of the 700/900 deal with manufacturing issues.

Tom -- I think the MCore will do OK here. My soil is largely 4 bar and some places 5 bar dirt. Very rare are the patches of 3 bar dirt here. That's why when the pulse machines came along, it opened up a whole new world to known and hunted out sites. I don't hunt much any more so I don't need the pulse machines and can accept that I'm missing things with a VLF. The Equinox was pretty good at keeping a non ferrous ID down to certain depths in the bad soil but like every other VLF, would eventually transition the ID down to iron. I know the MCore will do the same but I still want one.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I haven't had any problems with the Nox in over three and a half years. I think it helped my odds that I don't use it in the water or sand except for three hunts earlier this year on vacation at Gulf Shores. I ran into a couple ladies there who were dedicated beach hunters, one was on her second Nox, the other on her third.

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom
>

>
> I agree it would be foolish yo upgrade for free. H
> owever, a "trade-in program towards the purchase o
> f" would do wonders for the buyer base and communi
> ty as a whole and still would make them a ton of m
> oney. I am getting a Manti, and I would of gladly
> traded in my Nox 800(clean, working, undamaged) co
> unting as $600,00 off toward the nox 900. They wou
> ld of made an addition $400.00 from the nox 900 sa
> le. I am sure there would of been a ton of people
> to do that.
>
> Think how Nox saturated the market is right now, w
> hy not convert them into $400 each?

Beyonder-PA

I cannot imagine Minelab wanting to involve themselves in the Refurbished Detector Market, especially on a detector with a sealed control pod that may or may not have leaked at some point and search coils in various stages of the 'coil bolt ears' breaking off. That has financial disaster written all over it.

Perhaps you are really saying you wish Minelab should have a factory recall on the Equinox 600/800 and give you a voucher worth such and such towards the purchase of a 700/900. Turned in equinoxes are destroyed and recycled. ???

My thoughts are this - I think Minelab, KNOWING they have a Production/Design/Materials issue with both the Equinox Control POD - AND - the EQX11 search coil design/materials, should extend their warranty for both. They screwed up on this - they can deny until they are blue in the face. It is what it is, a Failure in production/design/materials.

I don't think you and I should hold our breath on this though. Minelab isn't going to do that. We know that.

I think we, as Equinox owners' are left to our own resources with this. If you want an 700/900, than sell the old detector and apply the funds towards a new purchase and move on.

Me - I have my original 800 that is nearly 5 years old and has been an All Star for me, and a new one for emergency back up. I will be picking up a Manticore here at some point and letting it take over. Can't say i really want a 900. I know my 800 upside down and backwards. There are always other manufactures though.

I know many equinox users and potential users left the ranks and migrated to D2's and Legends, and rightly so. Minelab screwed the pooch on the Waterproof part of this great Multi-purpose detector. Bad. Thing is, I am a shallow water hunter, so this impacted me.

I tried a D2 this year. I think it is a great detector that was going to replace my 800 EXCEPT the hokey pokey coil antennae engineering solution was so bad it became a deal breaker for me. Controllers falling off in the water, brackets popping off. What a mess. An example of another failed solution for what could have been a great shallow water hunter for me. Rubber bands and plastic clip on brackets was the engineering solution? So bad.

So, I wait for the Manticore to see if Minelab got the waterproof/shallow water part of it right. I'm hoping. It appears they have, but . . . . we shall wait and see.

UtahRich -

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Just one more good target before I go.

Duplicate

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2022 10:29AM by Gonebeepin'.

Gonebeepin' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom
> >
>
> >
> > I agree it would be foolish yo upgrade for free.
> H
> > owever, a "trade-in program towards the purchase
> o
> > f" would do wonders for the buyer base and commu
> ni
> > ty as a whole and still would make them a ton of
> m
> > oney. I am getting a Manti, and I would of gladl
> y
> > traded in my Nox 800(clean, working, undamaged)
> co
> > unting as $600,00 off toward the nox 900. They w
> ou
> > ld of made an addition $400.00 from the nox 900
> sa
> > le. I am sure there would of been a ton of peopl
> e
> > to do that.
> >
> > Think how Nox saturated the market is right now,
> w
> > hy not convert them into $400 each?
>
> Beyonder-PA
>
> I cannot imagine Minelab wanting to involve themse
> lves in the Refurbished Detector Market, especiall
> y on a detector with a sealed control pod that may
> or may not have leaked at some point and search co
> ils in various stages of the 'coil bolt ears' brea
> king off. That has financial disaster written all
> over it.
>
> Perhaps you are really saying you wish Minelab sho
> uld have a factory recall on the Equinox 600/800 a
> nd give you a voucher worth such and such towards
> the purchase of a 700/900. Turned in equinoxes are
> destroyed and recycled. ???
>
> My thoughts are this - I think Minelab, KNOWING th
> ey have a Production/Design/Materials issue with b
> oth the Equinox Control POD - AND - the EQX11 sear
> ch coil design/materials, should extend their warr
> anty for both. They screwed up on this - they can
> deny until they are blue in the face. It is what i
> t is, a Failure in production/design/materials.
>
> I don't think you and I should hold our breath on
> this though. Minelab isn't going to do that. We kn
> ow that.
>
> I think we, as Equinox owners' are left to our own
> resources with this. If you want an 700/900, than
> sell the old detector and apply the funds towards
> a new purchase and move on.
>
> Me - I have my original 800 that is nearly 5 years
> old and has been an All Star for me, and a new one
> for emergency back up. I will be picking up a Mant
> icore here at some point and letting it take over.
> Can't say i really want a 900. I know my 800 upsid
> e down and backwards. There are always other manuf
> actures though.
>
> I know many equinox users and potential users left
> the ranks and migrated to D2's and Legends, and ri
> ghtly so. Minelab screwed the pooch on the Waterpr
> oof part of this great Multi-purpose detector. Bad
> . Thing is, I am a shallow water hunter, so this i
> mpacted me.
>
> I tried a D2 this year. I think it is a great dete
> ctor that was going to replace my 800 EXCEPT the h
> okey pokey coil antennae engineering solution was
> so bad it became a deal breaker for me. Controller
> s falling off in the water, brackets popping off.
> What a mess. An example of another failed solution
> for what could have been a great shallow water hun
> ter for me. Rubber bands and plastic clip on brack
> ets was the engineering solution? So bad.
>
> So, I wait for the Manticore to see if Minelab got
> the waterproof/shallow water part of it right. I'm
> hoping. It appears they have, but . . . . we shal
> l wait and see.
>
> UtahRich -

I have had zero issues with my 800. I am sure ML can utilize the traded in Noxs to scavenge parts or rebuild them into 700 and 900 and the way material shortages are... I mean why not try to recoup more money from former Nox owners. Which would you rather have? A happy customer who paid $1400 or a disgruntled customer who paid $1000? Just a thought.

"It's only when we lost everything, that we are free to do anything"

We are REALLY TRYING to beef-up everything on EQX-7/9 & MC.
Using electronics outdoors AND in the water.....always seems to pose 'risk'.

A few tips I feel I need to place extra emphasis upon:

If you are a inland/dirt/turf hunter:
1. Set Iron Volume on '2'. You NEED to hear all of the iron; yet, you do not want to become bombarded/inundated/fatigued with it.
2. For now..... ONLY dig good 'two-way' hits..... or better. Do not dig the one-way hits as of yet.
There is learning-curve rationale/justification for this. And.........MC factory presets are somewhat aggressive.

For the wet-slope & water hunters:
1. Always use Prospecting Audio.
2. And have the Iron Volume on '25'.
Weak/deep non-ferrous targets may/will ID as 'iron' . , . , . , . , and if your Iron Volume is low/no...... you will surely miss that small/tight signal.

Food-for-thought: Wet-salt is IRON to any detector. And a STRONG iron response. If you have a 15" Nickel in the wet-salt......the Nickel is a very weak signal. You have 15" of WET-SALT in FRONT of the Nickel. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , what do you think the ID will be with: 15" of iron (the wet-salt).......combined with a very distant/deep weak Nickel signal. ------- Yes. Mostly a strong iron signal......and a very tiny Nickel signal somewhere in the 'mix'.....combined.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., will generate a iron ID/response.
Wet-salt is ALWAYS trying to make EVERYTHING ID as a 'iron' signal/response.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
> A few tips I feel I need to place extra emphasis u
> pon:
>
> If you are a inland/dirt/turf hunter:
> 1. Set Iron Volume on '2'. You NEED to hear all of
> the iron; yet, you do not want to become bombarded
> /inundated/fatigued with it.
> 2. For now..... ONLY dig good 'two-way' hits.....
> or better. Do not dig the one-way hits as of yet.
> There is learning-curve rationale/justification fo
> r this. And.........MC factory presets are somewha
> t aggressive.
>
> For the wet-slope & water hunters:
> 1. Always use Prospecting Audio.
> 2. And have the Iron Volume on '25'.
> Weak/deep non-ferrous targets may/will ID as 'iron
> ' . , . , . , . , and if your Iron Volume is low/n
> o...... you will surely miss that small/tight sign
> al.
>
> Food-for-thought: Wet-salt is IRON to any detector
> . And a STRONG iron response. If you have a 15" Ni
> ckel in the wet-salt......the Nickel is a very wea
> k signal. You have 15" of WET-SALT in FRONT of the
> Nickel. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , what do you
> think the ID will be with: 15" of iron (the wet-sa
> lt).......combined with a very distant/deep weak N
> ickel signal. ------- Yes. Mostly a strong iron
> signal......and a very tiny Nickel signal somewher
> e in the 'mix'.....combined.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., will
> generate a iron ID/response.
> Wet-salt is ALWAYS trying to make EVERYTHING ID as
> a 'iron' signal/response.

Have you tried horseshoe mode on the wet beach Tom? If so have you noticed any correlation to ferrous targets producing a double ring and Nonferrous producing a single ring?

Lastly, what mode on the Manticore would be close to Beach 2 on the 800?

marcomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I haven't had a
> ny problems with the Nox in over three and a half
> years. I think it helped my odds that I don't use
> it in the water or sand except for three hunts ear
> lier this year on vacation at Gulf Shores. I ran i
> nto a couple ladies there who were dedicated beach
> hunters, one was on her second Nox, the other on h
> er third.


I hunt Gulf Shores pretty often. Went through a pod and couple coils and 2 arm cuffs. I live a few miles from the beaches. I'm hoping the Manticore will be a good replacement for the nox. All I use now is the Deus 2. Manticore on order.

basstrackerman......... I wish I could absolutely guarantee you that Manticore will present LESS problems. I'm quite certain it will.......... yet, not cut-in-stone.

midalake.......... Yes. I ONLY hunt the wet-salt beach with 'horseshoe' full "ON". All Metal Mode. BECAUSE........ VERY deep/faint targets (non-ferrous or ferrous).... have a large propensity to ID as 'iron'. But...... there are several clues when you detect a deep non-ferrous.
Manticore Beach Seawater Mode is the equiv of EQX-800 Beach Mode-2.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> basstrackerman......... I wish I could absolutely
> guarantee you that Manticore will present LESS pro
> blems. I'm quite certain it will.......... yet, no
> t cut-in-stone.
>
> midalake.......... Yes. I ONLY hunt the wet-salt b
> each with 'horseshoe' full "ON". All Metal Mode. B
> ECAUSE........ VERY deep/faint targets (non-ferrou
> s or ferrous).... have a large propensity to ID as
> 'iron'. But...... there are several clues when you
> detect a deep non-ferrous.
> Manticore Beach Seawater Mode is the equiv of EQX-
> 800 Beach Mode-2.

I understand what you are explaining 100% as I recover targets like this all the time.

So, then this question> When a deep nonferrous nickel does happen and the tid is showing a ferrous number, will the 2d screen also confirm a ferrous target?
OR>> will there be a divergence a possible hint that the target may be nonferrous with the Two-Dimensional ID Map System

2. For now..... ONLY dig good 'two-way' hits..... or better. Do not dig the one-way hits as of yet.
There is learning-curve rationale/justification for this. And.........MC factory presets are somewhat aggressive.

Well this has got me scratching my coil?

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

midalake........ Really deep/weak targets will not even 'paint' any markings on the 2D screen. IF it does...... it is very faint. The 2D screen mimics what the ID system generates..... in most cases.
BUT......... there is hope yet. Here's a weird quirk about MC: A Nickel may be audibly ID'ing as 'ferrous'....... BUT......... many times the ID will generate a underlined '27' (which is a -27). A Nickel ID's as a +27 if the signal-strength is strong enough to generate a ID. But...... if the Nickel is too deep...... it is common the ID generated is a -27 !!!

khouse........ There is a huge (non-linear) learning-curve to successfully dig one-way hits. There is substantially less learning-curve to dig good 2-way hits. . . . . AND....... the learning-curve needed to understand the 1-way hits....... is in the education/tuition/embodiment of the 2-way hits! (((Let me save you the pain & time)))!!!

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:

UtahRich -
I have had zero issues with my 800. I am sure ML can utilize the traded in Noxs to scavenge parts or rebuild them into 700 and 900 and the way material shortages are... I mean why not try to recoup more money from former Nox owners. Which would you rather have? A happy customer who paid $1400 or a disgruntled customer who paid $1000? Just a thought.


Beyonder-PA

Like you, my 800 has been an All Star for me if I measure by performance.

i think somebody needs to design an aftermarket drop in housing for equinox 800 innards.

Rich -

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

Gonebeepin' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
>
> UtahRich -
> I have had zero issues with my 800. I am sure ML c
> an utilize the traded in Noxs to scavenge parts or
> rebuild them into 700 and 900 and the way material
> shortages are... I mean why not try to recoup more
> money from former Nox owners. Which would you rath
> er have? A happy customer who paid $1400 or a disg
> runtled customer who paid $1000? Just a thought.
>
>
> Beyonder-PA
>
> Like you, my 800 has been an All Star for me if I
> measure by performance.
>
> i think somebody needs to design an aftermarket dr
> op in housing for equinox 800 innards.
>
> Rich -




Its not necessarily drop in, but the Sea Ghost and Sea Wolf(?) conversion kits seem pretty robust for water hunting. Totally replaces Minelabs pod with a different set up. Think those boys are over in Hungary or the Ukraine.

Hard data. I am just returning from the beach......... and nearly 1/2 of the slope was Summer "Nominal/Normal". This allowed me to have a 'variables-removed' test-bed unto which I could hammer-in-the ground..... one of my PVC Nickels. My (peak/pinnacle) beach settings:

Beach Low Conductors Mode
Response Speed = 4
Iron Volume = 25
Volume = 25
Audio = Prospecting
Ferrous Limits Upper = 4
Ferrous Limits Lower = 0
Nothing Notched
Ground Balance = 7
Sensitivity = 26
FINALLY........ conditions allowed for (Summer = Normal) Sens settings. Two recent hurricanes tore up the beach....... presenting unusual/abnormal (invalidating) conditions. Today...... a certain portion of the beach were (what I call) the: Flats.

The documented numbers: Manticore will ascertain a Nickel to a depth of 16.2"...... with full repeatability. Weak; yet, repeatable.....with 100% of the coil swings.
Caveat: When water would slosh over the 16.2" Nickel........ it would disappear.
Caveat: If you live a little further North of Central Florida.,.,.,.,.,.,., your salt 'held-in-solution' will be less...... allowing for higher Sens settings; which.............. in turn....................... will allow much greater depth results.
This is why folks with the XP Deus-2 are ascertaining greater depths on a Nickel........ beyond Florida's 14.8" max Nickel-depth capabilities.

Hopefully.......... this data will put things into a better perspective for some folks.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., especially the beach hunters.

EXCELLENT!

Very helpful, very relative to beach hunting. Any wild guesses on salt beach relic hunting (old ship’s artifacts from iron and brass spikes, bronze items, musket balls up to worn Spanish silver reales)?
You know how some reales are worn razor thin or have a brown tarnish almost rust like look depending on the part of the beach found.

A 1/2 reale can ring up at 15 in my experience at least on the Equinox. I imagine others have found various VID numbers. I think the sounds are the key.

I am excited to see this play out with the 2D screen to help ID.

Best regards,
Thank you Tom!

Federally minted U.S. Gold Coin ID on Manticore =

$1 Type-1 = 23
$1 Type-2 & 3 = 20
$2.50 Quarter Eagle = 37 & 38
$5.00 Half Eagle = 49-53
$10.00 Eagle = 65
$20.00 Double Eagle = 76, 77, 78

1-Oz .9999 Canadian Mapleleaf = 95

U.S. 3-Cent Nickel = 12-16

The 3-Cent Nickel is the lowest ID Federally minted coin in the United States. There are non-Federal coins (private mints)....... like the Fractional Currency of California.,.,.,.,., such as the gold Quarter and the gold Half Dollar.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hard data. I am just returning from the beach.....
> .... and nearly 1/2 of the slope was Summer "Nomin
> al/Normal". This allowed me to have a 'variables-r
> emoved' test-bed unto which I could hammer-in-the
> ground..... one of my PVC Nickels. My (peak/pinnac
> le) beach settings:
>
> Beach Low Conductors Mode
> Response Speed = 4
> Iron Volume = 25
> Volume = 25
> Audio = Prospecting
> Ferrous Limits Upper = 4
> Ferrous Limits Lower = 0
> Nothing Notched
> Ground Balance = 7
> Sensitivity = 26
> FINALLY........ conditions allowed for (Summer = N
> ormal) Sens settings. Two recent hurricanes tore u
> p the beach....... presenting unusual/abnormal (in
> validating) conditions. Today...... a certain port
> ion of the beach were (what I call) the: Flats.
>
> The documented numbers: Manticore will ascertain a
> Nickel to a depth of 16.2"...... with full repeata
> bility. Weak; yet, repeatable.....with 100% of the
> coil swings.
> Caveat: When water would slosh over the 16.2" Nick
> el........ it would disappear.
> Caveat: If you live a little further North of Cent
> ral Florida.,.,.,.,.,.,., your salt 'held-in-solut
> ion' will be less...... allowing for higher Sens s
> ettings; which.............. in turn..............
> ......... will allow much greater depth results.
> This is why folks with the XP Deus-2 are ascertain
> ing greater depths on a Nickel........ beyond Flor
> ida's 14.8" max Nickel-depth capabilities.
>
> Hopefully.......... this data will put things into
> a better perspective for some folks.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
> , especially the beach hunters.

What's the Tarsacci do on nickle depth wise here Tom.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

In a nutshell...... on the beach.......depth on a Nickel (in the wet-salt) =

EQX-600/800 = 12.8"
EQX-700/900 = 13.8"
XP Deus-2 = 14.8"
Tarsacci MDT = 15.0"
Manticore = 16.2"

With one noteworthy caveat: Tarsacci..... for the most-part....... will acquire a Nickel at 15" on the damp slope, on the wet-slope and in the water. On all the other units...... the depths will vary more widely...... in those following locations.

It's going to be a sad sad day when I have to say goodbye to what I believe to be the best coin machine ever built.....my etrac.

Thanks Tom.

Is that with stock coils on all machine's?

I know the Tarsacci with 12 inch should be deeper than 15 on nickle.

Only reason I ask mainly is cause the Tarsacci is the only machine I've ever used that doesn't call deep non ferrous ferrous at some point in depth.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2022 03:10AM by Keith Southern.

Why are the machines being released in such low numbers? Minelab really didn’t learn anything from equinox release or maybe I didn’t learn anything from the equinox release.

Keith........ this is with the 12" coil installed on the Tarsacci. For clarification...... here's more data:

Tarsacci set-up:

18-KHz
Black Sand = "OFF"
Ground Balanced
Disc = -30 (Nothing Disc'd out).
Thresh = 0
Sens = 6
Salt Balanced (especially for 18-KHz)
Volume = 15

In this configuration on the Tarsacci......... I can detect a Nickel in the wet salt at 15" deep. . . . . . and....... there's actually almost 3" of air-gap forgiveness above the 15" Nickel. Two caveats:
1. I am unable to run Sens any higher (in my high salt-concentrate) on the beach.......... without inducing TOO much instability/chatter.
2. If I push the 15" Nickel....just slightly deeper...... the Tarsacci WILL still detect it; yet, the audio is so faint........ it mimics/emulates ... sounds-exactly-like..... the tiny false chatters/chirps of the wet-salt. , . , . , . subsequently; becoming indiscernable from any of the tiny beach 'chatters' that incur. (((And deep/faint target Volume...... is very low))).

The 12" coil on the Tarsacci..... is good for approx 2" greater depth on a Nickel....... over the 8" x 11" elliptical coil.

On the Manticore....... ESPECAILLY in: ----Audio = Prospecting---- type of audio (((this audio is like a hyper all-metal pinpoint Mode)))........ it is substantially easier to delineate/differentiate a faint 'real-target-audio'....... from all of the various tiny/minute wet-salt beach falses. It is EXACTLY because of this very specific set-up configuration rationale......... as to 'why' you are allowed/authorized to run a point (or two) higher Sensitivity ....whilst in Prospecting audio.
On Manticore........ running Sens on 23 presents phenomenal performance on the beach.
Bumping Sensitivity up just 1-point (to 24)....... brings in a whole new group of targets....never before detected.
Bumping Sensitivity up an additional 1-point (to 25) ..... brings in yet ANOTHER completely different group-of-targets...... that were never detected in the history of beach detecting.
And again....... bumping Sensitivity yet, an additional point higher (to 26).......... does it all over again. . . . to another euphoric plateau.

I am anxiously awaiting for folks to start receiving their MC's......... so I'm not the only one reporting/recording data.

Shakydigger = Valid question.............and I should have brought this up earlier.
Manticore is quite different. It transmits at a very different power level. Because of this......... there is a much tighter tolerance-level in two arenas ..... that must be adhered to. Hence/subsequently........tooling-up and roll-out is (initially) slow..........to make sure QC/QA & QE all homogenize.

Nasa Tom, would the Manticore go deeper on mild sandy lake beach. I assume it would. I would like to see that test also.

Tom, Can I ask several questions? Are you holding back anything with Manticore? Is the Manticore dumbed down any? I would love to know what are you working on next. Are you still with Fisher? Do you think Tarsacci has anything up their sleeve? or Nokia?

Rick........ absolutely.

Kingfish...... I'm out of time....... but should be able to start answering some of your questions.......shortly.

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's going to be a sad sad day when I have to say
> goodbye to what I believe to be the best coin mach
> ine ever built.....my etrac.

Not ready to give up my Etrac either. I have had an Equinox since February 2018 and rarely use it. The Etrac is much better for finding deep silver.