Wish it had two products like the EQU. 600 and 800. With Manticore I as is and Manticore II having "AUTO SENSITIVITY" and a "PINPOINTER" that uses detector discriminator. $1500 for I and $1800 for II...See what you can do Tom.

I read what ML said about 50% more power.....but it seemed to be worded by marketing. You Tom mentioned Carl saying 50% would equate to about 7% more depth. He did not say the machines gained 50% at the coil did he? Do we have more or a larger battery.... and just where is it? Id personally like something like the MDT easy to recharge at a $5 charge to replace. Based on all the conversation it appears the Fl beach hunters could really benefit with this one for depth and sensitivity. So ill follow Tom threat and watch the progress and more info come out.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read what ML said about 50% more power.....but it seemed to be worded by marketing. You Tom mentioned Carl saying 50% would equate to about 7% more depth. He did not say the machines gained 50% at the coil did he? Do we have more or a larger battery.... and just where is it? Id personally like something like the MDT easy to recharge at a $5 charge to replace. Based on all the conversation it appears the Fl beach hunters could really benefit with this one for depth and sensitivity. So ill follow Tom threat and watch the progress and more info come out.

I believe they're using two of the same batteries that are used in the Equinox (which uses only one).

I believe it was said on a video that it has 2 equinox type batteries in the handle, making the handle a little more elongated. 7% more usable depth could mean 1-2 inches. I think that would open up another layer for me. My wife also said she could use another 7%! Just saying.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe it was said on a video that it has 2 equ
> inox type batteries in the handle, making the hand
> le a little more elongated. 7% more usable depth
> could mean 1-2 inches. I think that would open up
> another layer for me. My wife also said she could
> use another 7%! Just saying.


7%, Send her my way lol

Watch what you wish for! Lol...

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe it was said on a video that it has 2 equinox type batteries in the handle, making the handle a little more elongated. 7% more usable depth could mean 1-2 inches. I think that would open up another layer for me.
> My wife also said she could use another 7%! Just saying.

Maybe the two battery approach would also work for your wife



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2022 12:21AM by Cal_cobra.

ghound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 7%, Send her my way lol



Where's the dang LIKE button when you need one!?!?!

BTW I think instead of chipping in to help Tom D. get a D2, we should've chipped in to get upgraded Forum software He seems to already have his hands pretty full with the MC.

I converted hers to a 2 stroke!

Tom, When you are able to answer, will the VCO audio be similar to what was on the Sovereign?

MANTICORE Technical SpecIfications Update!

Detect Modes: (Customisable)
All-Terrain (5), Beach (4), Goldfield (1)

Operating Frequencies:
Multi-IQ+, 5 kHz, 10 kHz, 15 kHz, 20 kHz, 40 kHz

Noise Cancel:
Auto, Continuous Auto, Manual (-9 to +9)

Ground Balance:
Auto, Manual, Tracking

Sensitivity:
1 to 35

Target Identification:
Conductive: 0-99 with ferrous indication

2D ID Map:
Two-Dimensional ID Map System with Target Trace

Target Tones:
1, 2, 5 - Tone | 1, 2, 5 - Region All Tones

Target Volume:
0 to 25

Target Pitch:
1 to 50

Ferrous Volume:
0 to 25

Ferrous Pitch:
1 to 50

Audio Themes:
Normal, Enhanced, Continuous Pitch

Volume Profiles:
Simple, Medium, Rich, Overdrive

Threshold Level:
0 to 25

Threshold Pitch:
1 to 50

Recovery Speed:
0 to 8

Ferrous Limits:
Upper: 0 to 14 | Lower: 0 to 9

Ferrous Limits Custom:
1 to 4

Shortcuts:
Soft Keys: 2 (Action Bar), 1 (User Button)

Depth Indicator:
5 levels

Shaft System:
3-piece highly collapsible carbon-fibre

Extended Length:
1440 mm / 56.7 inch

Collapsed Length:
630 mm / 24.8 inch

Weight:
1.3 kg / 2.9 lb

Standard Coil: (M11)
11-inch round Double-D coil with skidplate (waterproof to 5 m / 16 ft)

Audio Output:
Speaker | 3.5 mm (1/8") headphones | Wireless low latency headphones
Headphones (Included)

Minelab ML-105 wireless low latency headphones (non waterproof)

Display:
Colour LCD

Display Backlight:
Manual (1 to 10), Auto Adjust

Keypad Backlight:
On, Off

Flashlight:
Low, Medium, High, Off

Handgrip Vibration:
On, Off

Battery:
Internal rechargeable Lithium-ion battery

Battery Runtime:
Approx. 9 hours

Battery Charge Time:
Approx. 7 hours

Waterproof:
Waterproof to 5 m / 16 ft, IP68

Key Technologies:
Multi-IQ+ (High Power Simultaneous Multi-Frequency)

Included Accessories:
USB Charging Cable, 5x Screen Protectors, 3.5 mm Headphone Audio Cable, Headphone Case
Software Upgradable: Yes - via USB connection (Windows or Mac OS compatible)

Flashlight and handgrip vibration..HMMMM..Sounds familiar

Sort of neat seeing more manufactures follow suit with especially the handgrip vibration aspect..Some people are Deaf that cant enjoy the hobby.Might be useful in roaring surf too Id imagine.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

ghound....... THANKS for sharing!

The only other thing I want to clarify: We learned some lessons with EQX water intrusion. MC is improved; yet, retains IP68 rating........to 5M (16-feet).

I guess for in the water use that vibration of the handle will depend on how sensitive it is. If it falses you are going to find yourself checking more targets and using more battery. 4 beach modes..... what does that mean.... and what will it mean for in the water hunting? Someone said beach 2, turning down the sensitivity, and upping the recovery on a Nox can reduce power by almost half. I hope it less not more complicated for water hunting. Im hoping to see more videos or hear more from Tom about its waterproofing.... because right now they have a quality control issue with the Nox.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flashlight and handgrip vibration..HMMMM..Sounds f
> amiliar
>
> Sort of neat seeing more manufactures follow suit
> with especially the handgrip vibration aspect..Som
> e people are Deaf that cant enjoy the hobby.Might
> be useful in roaring surf too Id imagine.
>
> Keith
I used both features recently on my Simplex. I have never liked headphones being I wear glasses. I was hunting a river swimming hole with a lot of people swimming around. I used the vibration feature and it worked very well. Also the flashlight feature is superb for my evening and night hunts.

Hi, Tom. I know there are a lot of things you can't divulge about the upcoming Manticore but I hope you can answer one question for me concerning something you said in one of your posts.

Normally I'm not a first-on-the-block guy when it comes to buying a detector. With two of my three main detectors for the past eleven plus years, the Equinox and AT Pro, I waited 6-12 months after they were released to hear other respected users opinions, let the bugs get worked out and let the price come down. And the cz-3d was long out by the time I first got one.

This time I'm considering pre-ordering. That you have been involved in all phases of development is a major cause for optimism. But there is one pressing question I need to ask. I'm very impressed with the Nox I've been using for the last three and a half years, it performs quite well and I haven't had a lick of mechanical trouble with it. The only complaint I have of any consequence with it is that it is, as you know, prone to EMI issues.

As a primarily urban coin hunter, EMI can too often become a vexing problem. The easy fixes of using noise cancel and changing modes usually don't help. Decreasing sensitivity to the point of serious depth loss is not a viable option. What often helps (but not always) is going to the 6" coil or switching to a single (10 or 15kHz) frequency. Unfortunately, the Nox performance is diminished (particularly in regards to IDing targets) in single frequency. And using a sniper coil in less than busy areas is frustrating.

Tom, in one of your initial posts on the Manticore thread you stated "One (of the two) MAJOR points-of-focus was MEGA MITIGATION OF EMI."

So is the Manticore truly able to accomplish a major reduction in EMI instability without loss of depth or any other diminished performance parameters?

Thanks in advance for your time, Tom. And, as always, thanks for your forum!

detectival on fb [www.facebook.com]

It's so annoying having a detector that is the acme when EMI is not an issue...but needing to keep a spare detector that's not prone to EMI issues in the vehicle for those frustrating times when nothing works to mitigate the EMI pulsing through the Equinox. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Manticore can remedy this serious issue!

marcomo.......... EMI has been the plague/downfall of many-a-detectors. I too....... can attest that EMI has completely rendered useless the EQX at many sites. Just about the exact same resultant with F75/T2 based platforms.
MC is a notch better.
Here in fast-sink-rate sandbar Florida...... If I cannot run the EQX on a Sens setting of 21 (or higher)...... I will switch out to the Tarsacci (or CZ). If I cannot run Tarsacci on a Sens of '6' (or higher) it too..... gets a warm place in the trunk of the car. If EMI still persists; I pack up and leave. Regroup.
Deus-II also suffers (well above the norm) with EMI issues .... in small rural towns. A few times....... I've already had to switch out of the D2..... into other units.,.,.,.,. so as to circumnavigate around EMI debilitations/fatalities.

Yes Tom, I remember the 1st gen F75 well. Although I only had a tiny fraction of your number of hours with it, the EMI I experienced was often maddening.

Comparatively, I feel like the Nox does have the small advantage of more possible remediations. It's always a happy surprise on those rare occasions when the noise cancel actually quiets things significantly down. Going to a single frequency mode has the highest success rate for me, but I didn't buy the Nox to use it as a single freq. and the ID when not in multi is below par. With the Nox in single freq, when it comes to ID accuracy, I'd even lean towards giving the edge to my Teknetics Minuteman (rebranded Eurotek Pro) a $149 detector.

It's unfortunate that the excellent depth with accurate ID this detector is capable of is too often hindered by excessive EMI.

As the "low amounts" of EMFs with "no proven health ramifications" continue to rise I hope detecting technology can adapt. And our bodies too!

As for the Manticore, I was hoping for more than just a notch better...

marcomo........ yes. When life is predicated on EMI....... it is an 'issue'. What's worse is.............. when Mfr's ignore EMI issues .............................. or .....EMI is looked upon as a secondary/minute' problem. It is NOT a secondary issue. It has become the forefront unto which the entire premise and direction the hobby will progress. I commend those entities of whom have the guts and fortitude to 'face-the-music' and mitigate (and ultimately: RID) any/all forms of EMI. Yes; it is no easy task.

Aggregate Example: 60% of the sites I hunt with the EQX...... EMI is SO bad...that I have to pack up and leave. F75/T2 platform = 70%. Deus-II = just over 60%....... thus far. Tarsacci = 45%. Fisher CZ is the winner = 4%.
Beach is nearly never an EMI problem. Sooooo........... I am referring to inland sites. In my case: small old rural towns.
If you are an "out-in-the-country" field hunter.....far-far away from any civilization........big open fields......(like the Euro block).,.,.,.,., EMI is probably a non-issue.
Yes........... if you have to switch to a single-frequency Mode to mitigate the EMI...... you have completely defeated the entire premise of a SMF/FMF engineering platform.
Yes. The contrary. If your SMF unit analyzes 5 or 6 freqs simultaneously...... you WILL be subjected to: 5 or 6 TIMES more EMI susceptibility.

My biggest issue with EMI is.... medium-depth and deep-depth targets ID as 'iron'........if even detected at all; exclusively due to EMI.

My biggest issue IS EMI.

From a C.D.E. standpoint ...... we shall persevere-the-tackle.

We want to put out a product that will have a public-eye: "WOW!" factor.
We want to put out a product that will: To Go Where All Men Have Gone Before.
We want to put out a product that opens up old doors.
We want to put out a product that opens up new doors.
We want to put out a product that exposes an unsuspecting World that has never been seen before. (You never knew it was 'there').

That's very interesting, Tom. You've turned my mind's light bulb on...it's a paradigm shift for me to look at EMI reduction as THE avenue for a whole new world of keepers. What you are saying completely coincides with what I have experienced in the past, but I was too dense to put 2+2 together until your posts here. The few times I have used the Nox in remote areas/ghost towns far away from any significant EMFs the depth has been astounding. To the point of digging a large plug and then digging out additional dirt several times on five bar targets before getting a peep out of my pinpointer. The first couple times it happened I was thinking to myself this must be a false signal. As I kept digging very deep targets I was thinking to myself wow, this detector really has some serious punch.

I'm curious why you so often pack up and leave rather than switching to a much less EMI susceptible CZ in the trunk? Is it the fatigue and frustration of using the CZ in heavily iron laden spots?

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcomo.......... EMI has been the plague/downfall
> of many-a-detectors. I too....... can attest that
> EMI has completely rendered useless the EQX at man
> y sites. Just about the exact same resultant with
> F75/T2 based platforms.
> MC is a notch better.
> Here in fast-sink-rate sandbar Florida...... If I
> cannot run the EQX on a Sens setting of 21 (or hig
> her)...... I will switch out to the Tarsacci (or C
> Z). If I cannot run Tarsacci on a Sens of '6' (or
> higher) it too..... gets a warm place in the trunk
> of the car. If EMI still persists; I pack up and l
> eave. Regroup.

The F75 LTD definitely could be rendered useless w/EMI. The LTD2 was better, but not impervious to EMI. The Equinox was interesting. There's a string of remote sites that I had a little EMI feedback on my F75, but they don't affect the EQX800 at all, I can run it balls to the wall, even running the 15x12" ML coil. Now in the city is a different story. We had a great demo site a few years ago and one time I took my EQX800 it was shutdown running the stock 11" coil. Even if I turned the sensitivity down to 15 or less, it was a chatterbox. This is an extreme EMI situation - overhead utility lines of all sorts, right in the middle of San Francisco, overhead electric bus lines right next to the site, and a bunch of other detectorists to contend with at the same little demo site. I switched over the the 6" coil and it was quite as a church mouse, I was able to run it at max sensitivity and had one of my most productive hunts there, a nine silver day, along with tokens, IHPs, etc. This was a prolific early San Francisco site, a cob reale was found, a ultra rare gold rush era belt buckle, large cents, all kinds of great finds. A once in a lifetime opportunity at early California statehood history.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcomo........ yes. When life is predicated on EMI....... it is an 'issue'. What's worse is.............. when Mfr's ignore EMI issues .............................. or .....EMI is looked upon as a secondary/minute' problem. It is NOT a secondary is
> sue. It has become the forefront unto which the entire premise and direction the hobby will progress. I commend those entities of whom have the guts and fortitude to 'face-the-music' and mitigate (and ultimately: RID) any/all forms of EMI. Yes; it is

> Fisher CZ is the winner = 4%.

If the Fisher CZ is the winner, why? What's it doing that's different to mitigate EMI, or was it just luck from some design aspect? Is it due to being a more analog design?

As I understand it, analog detectors are in general less prone to EMI. Don't ask me why. I'm sure Tom can expound.

I remember with the F75, like the Equinox, the sniper coil was often the answer to mitigate EMI. But that's far from an ideal situation when you have to use a 5 or 6" coil in the type of area that, without EMI to contend with, would be better suited for a larger coil. The nature of the beast is less depth and less coverage per sweep with a smaller coil.

CZ with 10.5" coil has the same depth on coins......as the EQX. BUT...... the adjacent target separation characteristics is not as good.

CZ is indeed analog....... which attributes to 'some' of the better EMI handling abilities. But..... the CZ (by way of comparison) has much greater Transmit power...... which REALLY mitigates EMI. . . . . for many reasons.

True. Using a small coil to mitigate EMI...... is an exercise-in-futility .......as.......you cover substantially less ground.,.,.,.,., and the smaller coil is certainly not as deep. The: Time.....VS......Effeciency factor...... becomes severely off-balance (inefficient).

Brian. It is immensely frustrating when you acquire a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hunt a dream-site........ only to find out that you are shut-down due to EMI. I've had my fair share of this incursion. I have permanently (for the rest of my life).... LOST sites..... due to EMI-shutdown.
Yes....... I do indeed (Boy Scout = Be prepared) carry backup detectors.... for this exact reason. It may be a detector that is less-than-ideal for the site; yet, it is better than total shutdown.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Brian. It is immensely frustrating when you acquire a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hunt a dream-site........ only to find out that you are shut-down due to EMI. I've had my fair share of this inc
> ursion. I have permanently (for the rest of my life).... LOST sites..... due to EMI-shutdown.
> Yes....... I do indeed (Boy Scout = Be prepared) carry backup detectors.... for this exact reason. It may be a detector that is less-than-ideal for the site; yet, it is better than total shutdown.

Absolutely agree with the once-in-a-lifetime hunt site opportunities. We have these type of sites when we go on exploration road-trips. This is one reason I have always enjoyed using KISS detectors. I find detectors like the EQX800 to be forgiving if not optimally setup for a site, and this is (IMHO) a critical concept as I've seen users of say the Deus I, which I followed extensively when it was newer, say if the reactivity setting is off by a fraction a site is a no go. I saw a post from a Deus I user that stated one day he hunted a site and it was a bust, he returned the next day because he couldn't believe it was a bust, and the only thing he changed was his reactivity by like half a point. I know the D1 is a good relic machine, but if it's that unforgiving, that presents a problem. At a brand new (to me/you) site this can be an issue as It can be challenging to get a machine that needs to be dialed in exactly for it to perform at all, on your first go at a site. The EQX800 is pretty forgiving and employs a KISS operation for its users, which I appreciate. This has also been true of Nokta/Makro detectors as well (Racers, Impact, Multi Kruzer, etc).

Like you, I tend to have the most challenges w/EMI in intercity detecting sites (for obvious reasons). Nothing worse then getting onto a great demo site in old San Francisco, San Jose or whatnot around here only to get shut down w/EMI.

I appreciate that you stated earlier the Manticore employs a KISS design.

As an Boy Scout (Eagle Scout), I also try to be prepared and bring a backup detector just in case on most hunts. The example I gave of the once in a lifetime demo site in San Francisco was just to interject how well the small coil worked at mitigating EMI, but yes I agree that for a lot of applications I wouldn't want to give up the larger coil(s) for a small one. Interesting (at least on my EQX800) that the 6" coil is still pretty darned deep, not quite as deep as the 11" stock coil, but not too far off, which is counterintuitive for a coil this small. .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2022 05:37PM by Cal_cobra.

These problem(s) are precisely why the F-19 makes such a good relic machine.

Brian - Excellent point you make about the Equinox being forgiving of less than optimal settings for the site you are hunting. Some of our brethren enjoy the challenge of a detector that needs to be dialed in just so. Not me, I'm with you on the beauty of KISS!

As for the 6" coil, it does sock deep for a small coil. It doesn't get a lot of love, I've read numerous posts from Nox users knocking it. But for the proper applications, those very busy and/or high iron areas, I've been pleased. And just like it has for you, it has saved my arse at multiple EMI plagued locations. I ordered an extra lower rod for it early on, which made changing coils much less of a chore. Hearing all the problems people have had with the coil ears snapping, that extra rod (along with not over tightening) has probably kept me from having the same issue.