Extensive list of Deus 2 questions not explained in the manual

I have read the manual several times now and there are certain things that do not seem to be fully/properly explained, or even explained at all, so I want to see what other people's explanations are on the following points. Please chime in on any of them that you think you can clarify; I'm sure many others have had the same question(s) so this could be a useful thread for newbies as well as advanced users.


From the Manual -

A lot of these seem to be translation issues and using the English language by a French person vs English usage by an American.

Page 12, in describing General Mode it says "Set the reactivity to 2 for more efficiency in cleaner soil or to 3 for polluted/mineralized soil". What do they mean by polluted? Not sure if they mean just "target infested" / trashy ground or something else because under Fast program, they end their description of that mode by saying "allow the machine to work fast in ferrous-polluted and mineralized ground". But, under the Park program, they say "Park is adjusted for searching recreational areas such as parks, dry sand beach, etc, sites that are normally polluted. One description says "polluted" is target infestation and another says it is "ferrous-polluted". Any idea what they mean by "polluted" as you can have target infested ground but it is not ferrous infested soil.



On the pages describing each program, it has the program name in dark black. To the right of that in gray color is a line that shows FMF Max.Freq. @xxx KHZ and then either Conductive soil subtraction or Frequency addition. Conductive soil subtraction seems to be explained under General program as "it rejects the moisture in the soils". Fair enough. But on all modes that are listed as "Frequency addition", nowhere does it explain what Frequency addition is. What is this? Any idea of how it works?



Under the Deep High Conductor program description, they write "Ground stability is set to 1 and soils above your setting will therefore sound to provide you with the best performance for specific deep searches. What is meant by "soils above your setting"? And what do they mean by "sound"? Are they referring to chatter or what is "sound"? And how can adjusting your ground stability setting up or down from the preset level help or hurt you in various situations. (kind of like having sensitivity set too high will cause chatter which can cause you to miss target signals. SO how cna changing your Ground stability help or hurt you?)
The next line ends by saying "Adjust the Ground by Grabbing, but if you are experiencing too many false signals, adjust ground stability at 2 to reject all the soils, ferrites and shocks". A) This seems to suggest there is only two levels for ground setting, 1 and 2? And how do you tell the difference between a false signal vs chatter, because the solution to chatter is often to turn down the sensitivity if a scan doesn't clear it up. Lastly, what are ferrites and what are shocks?



Under Deus Mono it says "Ground above your ground effect setting will sound like the Deus 1". What is "ground effect setting"? Is this the same as Ground stability mentioned in Deep High Conductor? And how do you know if the ground is above (or even below) your ground effect setting? I've never used a Deus 1, so the reference is kinda useless.




Under Gold mode it says "It is set to all metal for deeper detection and only rejects the localized ground to which you should regularly adjust by Grabbing. It will accept ground above and below your Ground setting". So is this "ground setting" the number you get after doing a ground balance?




Under Relic, the first line says it "uses lower subtracted frequencies to search for large masses" . What are lower subtracted frequencies? Yeah, 4.5, 7.5, 13 KHZ are the lower frequency ranges available on the machine, but what are subtracted frequencies?





If you have a low recovery speed like 1, it takes a longer time to analyze a target and you can miss adjoining targets because it is still reading the first target while it then passes over adjoining targets. So how do you know how many other targets you are missing if you hunt with a low recovery speed and are never alerted to those additional targets? Are there any indications given out by the machine?

Sub question - how do you figure out what reactivity speed setting to use for the area you're hunting? I want to hear it all, good and bad targets, so I dont want recovery speed taking so long to analyze one target that it misses adjacent targets and I never know they are there, but I also dont want reactivity speed set unnecessarily fast and lose out on depth as Ive noticed a serious loss of depth with higher reactivity speeds, pllus the signal is much more clipped as the machine resets for the next target.





On page 21, under Reactivity it says "You will find more targets and detect deeper on mineralized ground with medium or high reactivity levels."
Ok, so what is the threshold for reaching this unknown level that they refer to as "mineralized ground"? And how do you know you've achieved that threshold level - by your ground balance number or what? Its meaningless to say "mineralized ground" and then not tell you at what point they consider ground to be at the level of "mineralized ground"! Is it at ground balance 65? 82? Or what? Page 22 shows a graph and they have "intermediate zone" in yellow, up to about 60. But anything above that is simply labeled "Ground Zone", whatever the heck that means. Is this what they referred to as "mineralized ground"?



Toward the bottom of page 22, there is a green colored paragraph that says "When entering the Ground page, the Deus 2 moves into an all metal mode, unlike the Deus 1."
Page? What page? What the heck are they talking about? Seems like a translation issue here. Do they mean "screen" or "view"? (because the last sentence on the page talks about a "pinpoint page", which seems to refer to a pinpoint screen or view).




Bottom of page 33 -when using the WS6 as the master, it only has access to the 12 factory programs, correct? It does not transfer over any user created programs?
but on page 34, under headset option, it says there is a program save, so can you save 12 user programs on the WS6?




Chart on page 43 - under Multi Tones it lists 1,2,3,4,5,Pitch, Multi Tones 1 and 2 + EXPERT modes.
What are Multi Tones 1 AND 2? What is the 2 referring to? And what are the EXPERT modes?




Page 48 - A damp cloth can be used to clean the non waterproof parts.
What parts are not waterproof????




Can you recharge it in the field using an external battery pack, like a computer charging unit? Or what about the Powernox battery pack for the Equinox? Will any slow charge power pack work? Anyone have any experience with HOW LONG it takes one of these external battery packs to recharge everything? If you use Deep HC mode and high sensitivity, theres no way you can go away for a weekend multi day hunting trip as the coil battery only lasts for about 7 1/2 hours and it needs a recharge. But what if you're in the bush and dont have a plug in power source like an electric wall outlet?




What is the difference between discrimination and silencer?




Thanks for your help and in answering these questions, hopefully it made you think about things and solidified your own understanding of things as you thought about how to explain your answers. "Those who know, do. Those that understand, teach."

Quote:"So how do you know how many other targets you are missing if you hunt with a low recovery speed and are never alerted to those additional targets? Are there any indications given out by the machine?

Sub question - how do you figure out what reactivity speed setting to use for the area you're hunting?"

Generally, you would be hunting in a medium recovery-speed mode. That would give you almost maximum depth, but still respond fast enough to pick up most targets. With this setting, you will hear enough of what's buried to know whether speeding up recovery would be useful. As for working out what benefits may come from slow recovery: if the targets are sufficiently far apart they are mostly 'isolated', it's worth experimenting. When you find a weak/deep signal, go over it more carefully, in all directions, to get the best out of the 'medium' speed : then switch to slow recovery, and see if there's any worthwhile improvement. Maybe a cleaner-sounding response, or a more stable ID, for example.

philber......... I am SO short on time at this moment; yet, will incrementally try to answer your questions.

"Polluted"..... Does indeed refer (mean) excessively target-rich environments. Some areas...... like parks...... may have some spots close to (say) picnic tables that are heavily polluted/trashed-out with aluminum foil & aluminum soda tabs. Most of the time...... parks are not polluted with nails (unless you are close to a structure). Humans carry (usually) aluminum implements/trash into parks. Humans usually do not carry nails with them into parks.
Also....... 'sometimes'.... a higher Reactivity speed 'usually' works better in thick/heavy mineralization..... to a point. A lower Reactivity presents greater depth; .............. which is to say: MORE (deeper) mineralized dirt is analyzed.....presenting greater mineralization feedback......,,,,,,,, which is a unwanted condition.

Frequency: ADDITION. Frequency: SUBTRACTION. This is an algorithmically computed equation whereby: electronically....... a mathematical equation adds, removes or partially adjusts.... the individual frequencies within the body of multiple frequencies (FMF or SMF) to the varying ground conditions. HOWEVER.......... I speculate this addition/subtraction is a "FIXED CONSTANT" .... just by virtue of the Mode/Program that is selected....... and the Deus-II does NOT algorithmically continuously adjust on-the-fly....to the continuously varying ground conditions.
The word "moisture" (in the soils)...... is mildly misleading. This is a --- CAUSE = EFFECT --- relationship. "Moisture" is the CAUSE of the EFFECT of 'activation' (and subsequent: amplification) of the minerals in the ground. Overall performance is reduced ...the higher the mineralization feedback from the soil.

""""Under the Deep High Conductor program description, they write "Ground stability is set to 1 and soils above your setting will therefore sound to provide you with the best performance for specific deep searches. What is meant by "soils above your setting"? And what do they mean by "sound"? Are they referring to chatter or what is "sound"? And how can adjusting your ground stability setting up or down from the preset level help or hurt you in various situations. (kind of like having sensitivity set too high will cause chatter which can cause you to miss target signals. SO how cna changing your Ground stability help or hurt you?)""""
With Ground Stability (Ground Stabilizer) set to '1'...... this is the lowest setting. It is the deepest and most sensitive setting...... in regards to Ground Stability. Sooooooo.......... your "Setting" is "1". The very weak/mild deltas (mild changes) in the soil mineralization......as you sweep the coil......will 'sound'. , . , . , . , . , meaning = will AUDIBLY REPORT. If you are in a threshold-based audio setting.... you will hear mild quivers in the audio threshold. Deep/weak targets will ALSO present 'mild audio quivers'; yet, will audibly sound different; that being: more abrupt/distinct. You can set Ground Stability to 2 or 3.....and the mild variations in mineralization 'quivers' will go away.....be silenced. BUT SO WILL THE DEEP/WEAK TARGETS!
Ferrites are SOLID masses of medium-strength magnetic characteristics.
Shocks were SOLID masses that have fully decomposed to 'blood spots' (dark spots) in the soil. They are still mildly magnetic in nature. ((( I'm speculating this is what XP is intending to imply. I'm trying to speak/think......possibly out-of-context....for XP!!! ))).
EMI = "Chatter"
Passing the coil over the tip or heal of a nail...can present: "False chatter".

((( ARE YOU TIED UP IN SEMANTICS YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )))

""""Under Deus Mono it says "Ground above your ground effect setting will sound like the Deus 1". What is "ground effect setting"?""""
Yes........ this implies 'where' you could/would/should set your Ground Stability. Example: Let's say you have Ground Stability on '2'. This gets rid of (say) soil that is 37% mineralized (4-bar dirt). Your detector will 'light-off'.... become audibly noisy....if mineralization is above 4-bar dirt. Become 'chatty'.... somewhat unstable. You could THEN choose the highest setting of '3' in Ground Stability. This DOES reduce some performance; yet, may be less audibly fatiguing....and keep you 'in-the-game'. (((In the meantime ..... don't forget to Ground Balance!!!))).

""""Under Gold mode it says "It is set to all metal for deeper detection and only rejects the localized ground to which you should regularly adjust by Grabbing. It will accept ground above and below your Ground setting". So is this "ground setting" the number you get after doing a ground balance?""""
Let's say you have a fairly strong ground response (strong mineralized dirt)....... and the Deus-II Ground Grabs at (say) '87'. This setting of '87' is a very specific 'type' of mineralization (and subsequent; compensation). If.......whilst sweeping the coil.......it goes over dirt that is below-or-above this very specific type of '87' dirt mineralization..... the detector will audibly report.

I'M OUT OF TIME !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2022 01:41PM by NASA-Tom.

Tom; Thanks for taking time to answer some questions; I honestly didnt think you would have time with all you have on your plate with the Manticore and everything else! Thanks again, it clarifies a few points I was unsure of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2022 11:31PM by philber.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:"So how do you know how many oth
> er targets you are missing if you hunt with a low
> recovery speed and are never alerted to those addi
> tional targets? Are there any indications given ou
> t by the machine?
>
> Sub question - how do you figure out what reactivi
> ty speed setting to use for the area you're huntin
> g?"
>
> Generally, you would be hunting in a medium recove
> ry-speed mode. That would give you almost m
> aximum depth, but still respond fast enough to pic
> k up most targets. With this setting, you will hea
> r enough of what's buried to know whether speeding
> up recovery would be useful. As for working out wh
> at benefits may come from slow recovery: if the ta
> rgets are sufficiently far apart they are mostly '
> isolated', it's worth experimenting. When you find
> a weak/deep signal, go over it more carefully, in
> all directions, to get the best out of the 'medium
> ' speed : then switch to slow recovery, and see if
> there's any worthwhile improvement. Maybe a cleane
> r-sounding response, or a more stable ID, for exam
> ple.


Pimento, Thanks for the reply. Trying a medium speed I can see helping to some degree, but it still leaves the same scenario of not being able to tell if/when you are missing something. Say you have reactivity set at 1 and you feel you are missing something, so you bump it up to 2.5 and start hearing more targets. Thats good, but you still don't know if you are missing even more targets than what you are now hearing after increasing it to 2.5. You could bump up to 3.5, but just because you keep hearing more targets, doesnt mean you have been alerted to them all. And hunting at 5 reactivity isnt a solution either as that may be overkill on reactivity speed, and at a minimum is going to cost you serious depth.
The overall gist of my question is in being able to determine what is the best reactivity speed for an area based on what is actually in the ground so that: 1) I dont have reactivity set needlessly high and end up losing depth and missing deeper targets or 2) I dont have reactivity set so slow that I end up missing co-located targets because the machine hasnt reset itself fast enough to report all adjacent targets

You're never going to detect ALL the targets, for a plethora of reasons. Changing reactivity will find a few more than sticking with a sensible 'medium' value, but it's a trade-off. Do you have the time to go over a given area several times, with different settings?
It's difficult to choose the 'best' settings, or the 'best' coil size for a location, and compromising, and accepting there's always going to be things left in the ground is part of the hobby.

Correct, you will never get all targets (have you read Toms article The Painful Truth; its on the home page and is quite amazing), but I am trying to do what I can to maximize my time and efforts when I go over a spot. Its kind of like the ground balance or not ground balance argument. Sure it often only makes a "little bit" of improvement, but why not do what we can to get the best performance?

But the difference with Ground Balance is that there IS a correct GB setting, and any other setting is to varying degrees sub-optimal. Whereas there is NO correct coil size, and no 'best' recovery speed, and no 'best' detector frequency choice, etc.

[I have no idea how a 'correct' GB value is determined on multi-freq machines ... but it's safe to assume there is some optimum setting ]

((( I have a few more moments ))).

Lower Subtracted Frequencies = ((Mildly ambiguous semantics/verbiage)). The Deus-II is using more of a grouping (bias) of lower frequencies......because the higher frequencies are intentionally algorithmically less weighted (used less..........ie: "subtracted"). You will detect larger targets & higher conductance targets by placing more emphasis on the utilization of the lower frequencies.....out of all the freqs that are available in the multi-frequency spectrum that is engineered with the XP. (This also holds true for Minelab SMF platforms).

I have yet to determine IF the XP Deus-II performs in the same capacity as Minelab SMF platforms; yet, speculate the following to hold true = With a SIMULTANEOUS Multi Frequency platform.,.,.,., when you perform an Auto Ground Balance: EACH INDIVIDUAL FREQUENCY is INDEPENDENTLY being adjusted/calibrated. In other words.......for better illustration: Let's say..... in any of the SMF Modes on the EQX: You Auto Ground Balance to a number of '80'. This '80' (due to your dirt conditions) might mean:
5-KHz = 80
10-KHz = 74
15-KHz = 67
20-Khz = 54
etc..........
If you were to switch over to a Single Freq Mode......... and select any particular individual frequency........,,,,,,,,...........you would find that each frequency will Auto Ground Balance to its own individual DIFFERING number...... differing from the other individual freq's..........on the same patch of dirt that you are performing Auto Ground Balancing.

REACTIVITY (setting) = Is a painful subject. Due to infinitely varying scenarios out there in the real-World......EACH INDIVIDUAL scenario requires its own 'unique' Reactivity setting.
For example: You may have two targets in the ground that are very close to each other. ONLY a Reactivity setting of '3' will provide enough intelligibility to audibly separate the targets. A lower Reactivity setting will 'blend' the targets together as 'one' target. A higher Reactivity setting presents insufficient depth performance to detect either target.
That is merely one example.
What if there is mineralization: that adds another 'variable' into the equation.....whereby..... any lower Reactivity setting...sees TOO much dirt (subsequently; additional mineralization).....because lower Reactivity settings go deeper (see more dirt).
IN GENERAL = (((To answer your ultimate question))) = The more sparce the targets........the lower you should run your Reactivity. The more trashed-out (high volume of targets) in your detecting area.... the higher you should run your Reactivity.,.,.,.,., up to a point. Remember: Once you go beyond a Reactivity setting of around '3'....... you enter into a point-of-no-return ,. ., ., ., ., ., and the efficiency of the unit: 'reverse avalanches' (diminishes). (((Law of diminishing returns))).
I could also say: You select a specific site to hunt. Unknowingly (to you) .... the following geophysics data prevails:
Reactivity 0.5 = 24% of the targets will be found.
Reactivity 1 = 21% of the targets will be found.
Reactivity 1.5 = 17% of the targets will be found.
Reactivity 2 = 15% of the targets will be found.
Reactivity 2.5 = 16% of the targets will be found.
Reactivity 3 = 07% of the targets will be found.
And the targets that ARE found....... may NOT be the same targets that a different Reactivity setting will find!!! (Although they will be fairly close to the same targets found).
Again..........this is just one example.

Having a test-garden in your dirt locale .... will REALLY help you determine how Reactivity settings perform. In my mineral-free, inert Florida (sandbar) dirt......... I can get away with the lowest Reactivity setting.....AND witness that maximum depth is achieved with lowest Reactivity setting.

""""When entering the Ground page, the Deus 2 moves into an all metal mode, unlike the Deus 1.""""
Ground page = Yes....... the Ground screen. . . . . the Ground Menu.

--------------------

I keep running out of time.,.,.,.,., hoping someone else can jump in and answer the few remainder questions. HELP!

What I have found with the D2 is that it's always a compromise to have it set right.

I feel they added the multi freq to attract the salt water hunters more than the Iron infested site hunters.

I'm not sure I see any advantage YET to the multi freq in iron over a regular Deus.[In iron]

I can say the D2 is alot more noisy in iron VS regular Deus till you get all the settings right then if the dirt changes in the site it gets noisy again.Sort of like the Tarsacci when its right its on when its off it's gone.It's all about balance how much do you want to mess with it to get it right and how much of a reap will ensue VS a less tunable machine.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Does Deus 2 have advantages over Deus 1. (Both 9" LF and 9" HF coils) ?

The answer is yes.
Deus 2 can be one with one mode and fair better on both high and low conductors (in modern trash and iron). Deus 1 has to be run in multiple freqs (requiring multiple hunts).

In iron IMO based on use and testing (I used mono program on deus 2 to use as gauge vs FMF on Deus 2). Weakness with deus 1 is higher conductors in iron. You can't run deus 1 at 28.8 kHz or higher and be as good on higher conductors both in and around iron and on the deeper higher conductors. Deus 2 has clear advantage. Using general, fast, sensitive in iron sites. Deus 2 is can find masked lower and higher conductors (one mode) So it's a twofer with deus 2. Not so much with deus 1.

Here's one video.
I have done some more.
[m.youtube.com]

And users of Deus 2 are finding higher conductors in iron sites where deus 1 and both LF and HF coils have been used a lot. Including myself.

Cheers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2022 02:28AM by tnsharpshooter.