Calabash Digger tests and uses Manticore on salt beach--- eye opening performance

Calabash can't post to this forum at his home. So I will post his videos here.

There are multiple videos. Not all are ready.
I'll update here as more videos are uploaded.

Initial impressions of Manticore at beach
[m.youtube.com]

Gold chain and open hoop earring
[m.youtube.com]

Beach hunt
[m.youtube.com]

Beach hunt #2 and showing screen closeup
[m.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2022 11:29PM by tnsharpshooter.

The Manticore is impressive. I wish there were coils designed to sweep easy in the water.

One more Calabsh video.

Manticore compared to Deus 2 for depth.
[m.youtube.com]

Manticore only a couple of inches greater depth over Deus-2 on the gold chain. Something is amiss.
Manticore barely getting 14" deep Nickel. Something is amiss.
Manticore Ground Balance of '15'. Something is amiss.
Manticore Sensitivity on '21' for stability. Something is amiss.

But....... the Deus-2 ALSO looks to be a bit amiss. It should be performing a bit better ALSO.

At high tide...... the MC should be able to run Sens on 23....with stability.
At low tide....... the MC should be able to run Sens on 25....with stability. THIS would result in much better (engineering design intent) performance.

MC should Ground Balance around 7 or 8.
I don't believe David is the problem.

With the Sens on 23..... and the coil perfectly still.,.,.,.,.,., is the unit: chatty/noisy???
Or is the unit 'chatty' ONLY whilst the coil is being swept on the wet-sand?

Is it a faulty unit Tom?

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the Sens on 23..... and the coil perfectly st
> ill.,.,.,.,.,., is the unit: chatty/noisy???
> Or is the unit 'chatty' ONLY whilst the coil is be
> ing swept on the wet-sand?


I called and gave Calabash your recommendations. He will retest at his local salt beach tomorrow (for correct GB number when balanced) . I will pass on your questions (you posted above) to him in the AM tomorrow.
I will send you his results via pm when I get them.

David



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2022 04:25AM by tnsharpshooter.

I've not had a chance to watch any of these yet but I saw bits of the one he did on the beach that was from a live feed. In it, I thought the M-Core was very erratic like it needed noise canceling. I didn't ever see him do a noise cancel but I could have over looked it.

Could the production model now shipping be different than the test model?
Or EM / sand worse there?

Half-Step troubleshooting in progress. (Including: Is it the beach conditions).

I like my unit to run a bit on the hot/crackle/jittery side.......so as to hear the aberrations in the sand AND to FORCE me to see if I have a extremely STEADY-COIL-SWEEP ; yet, Sens 21 on David's unit...... is still too low.

I believe the production unit .... is software #59.

Manticore and Deus 2 in the test were set to /bottle cap reject/ - they were supposed to eliminate the bottle cap to a certain extent ..and this could be attributed to the practical detection depth of both detectors..

Calabash could say something more about it, if he tried other settings...

I have detected the same beaches CD is on and it's a bit of both. The EMI from some of the areas has forced me to go put the Tarsacci up and break out something else and still cut sens.down. Not sure what causes it but I have known it to just disappear. According to the meter on my D2 the sand changes so much that I run it in tracking to keep it balanced. Sure, Scott will have a bunch of videos when he gets his own MD. Sure Dan wants to play with his MD some on his own. Like to see some 15" rings pulled instead off a buried nickel. Want to see it in the water.

I would also like to see how the Manticore performs at a different beach. . . . . . . maybe about 50-miles away.
I would also like to hear Sens 23 noisiness ..... along with its other settings.

Here's Calabash using both deus 2 and Manticore at different beach about 40 miles north first beach he showed Manticore. Calabash does address some your your question NASA Tom.

[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2022 02:25AM by tnsharpshooter.

Thank you!!!! Now THAT'S a perfect (troubleshooting) video!!! Tons of live-on-the-wire footage. I SEE the Ground Balance problem. I could see it clearly/perfectly with the Ground Tracking "ON"....... and David swinging the coil. And......... there is NO problem. When you are very close to the waters edge....... and the water is 'sloshing'....... and you are swinging the coil over the 'slosh' and then back onto the "no-slosh" zone; yet, there is ALSO the motion of the subsurface water-table.,.,.,.,.,., you will ascertain EXACTLY what was filmed.

AND........ I can see 'why' David (calabash) likes Sens on 22. He likes a very silent unit..... even when sweeping the coil perpendicular to the water.......and swinging the coil over the incoming water ... on one side of the sweep......,,,,,,,,,..... then .......... on the other side of the coil sweep.,.,.,.,.,., swinging the coil back over the wet sand. THIS will cause a bit of natural instability. I much prefer to NOT swing a coil perpendicular to the water......... but/rather....... walk TO the water..... then walk AWAY from the water.......walking back UP the slope........ parallel to the ocean.,.,.,.,., so as to sweep the coil on (linearly) wet sand.
I like to run my unit a little 'crackly' noisy/hairy-edge..... so as to hear the aberrations in the sand: ridges, ripples, divots, footprints...... seaweed etc.

I even tested MC on the beach with Sens on 22........ and could just barely detect a 16" Nickel........ exactly like calabash/David's resultant.

Bottom Line = ZERO problems with his entire unit. Zero Ground Balance issues. Zero coil issues. It is all in the conditions...... the technique........ and hunting style.

In the past ...... the Troy X-5 had a bad rash of coil issues..... right out of the box. Garrett also had a very bad batch of coils with the newly released AT-Pro. The Teknetics T-2 ALSO had a rash of bad coils. I (initially) had concerns that calabash might have a bad coil.......(or a host of other 'local conditions' possible issues). This specific video conclusively proved the coil/unit has zero issues.

------- Once again....... you can see (hear) the: audio CLARITY............ the audio INTELLIGENCE on the Manticore (especially in Audio: Prospecting)........ is SO much more resolute.

Once again...... THANKS for this (more comprehensive than you may think!) video.

One more "different" thought =
If calabash does any inland testing (especially in his test-garden)....... I wonder what he would/will think .... with All Terrain High Conductors....with a Recovery Speed of '2'. How well will this set-up Noise Cancel?......then...... how high can he run Sens in his EMI-plagued test-garden.
(((Does he have a 12" deep Dime in his test-garden)))??? He just might.....NOW.....need one.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. I
> SEE the Ground Balance problem. I could see it cle
> arly/perfectly with the Ground Tracking "ON"......
> . and David swinging the coil. And......... there
> is NO problem. When you are very close to the wate
> rs edge....... and the water is 'sloshing'.......
> and you are swinging the coil over the 'slosh' and
> then back onto the "no-slosh" zone; yet, there is
> ALSO the motion of the subsurface water-table.,.,.
> ,.,.,., you will ascertain EXACTLY what was filmed
> .
>
> AND........ I can see 'why' David (calabash) likes
> Sens on 22. He likes a very silent unit..... even
> when sweeping the coil perpendicular to the water.
> ......and swinging the coil over the incoming wate
> r ... on one side of the sweep......,,,,,,,,,.....
> then .......... on the other side of the coil swee
> p.,.,.,.,.,., swinging the coil back over the wet
> sand. THIS will cause a bit of natural instability
> . I much prefer to NOT swing a coil perpendicular
> to the water......... but/rather....... walk TO th
> e water..... then walk AWAY from the water.......w
> alking back UP the slope........ parallel to the o
> cean.,.,.,.,., so as to sweep the coil on (linearl
> y) wet sand.
> I like to run my unit a little 'crackly' noisy/hai
> ry-edge..... so as to hear the aberrations in the
> sand: ridges, ripples, divots, footprints...... se
> aweed etc.
>
> Bottom Line = ZERO problems with his entire unit.
> Zero Ground Balance issues. Zero coil issues. It i
> s all in the conditions...... the technique.......
> . and hunting style.
>
> ------- Once again....... you can see (hear) the:
> audio CLARITY............ the audio
> INTELLIGENCE on the Manticore (especially in Audio
> : Prospecting)........ is SO much more resolute.
>
> Once again...... THANKS for this (more comprehensi
> ve than you may think!) video.

(Pardon my slightly off topic post)

Good to resolve the differences in what you both experienced at the beach. Makes a lot of sense. Now that I have heard it. Watched the video and read the discussion.
Tom and David (with TSS as ‘interpreter’ ) are a great collaboration team.j
My take aways:
Run the machine quiet or chatty - personal preference but each has unique consequences.
Direction of coil sweep parallel to waves
Higher Sensitivity = more audio info to process
Sweeping over water and when surf washes over/under coil causes changes that can be heard/seen
Close to the surf wash, the temporary water table changes up and down which may affect behavior
I have noticed higher sens reports footprints and seaweed as well.
These behaviors are grouped under running high sens at a particular beach - at least for me.
But to compare/correlate all these in context and determine that each one can be explained was a lightbulb moment for me, even though I have yet to swing a Manticore.

I noticed the exact behavior with the NOX (but not the depth and audio improvements of the Manticore) but could not put together the reasoning until these videos and the analysis by NASA-TOM!

This has shown me what I thought was randomly odd behaviors were in fact all part of the same related conditions and technique.
My understanding has increased.
Thanks for that Tom.

I understand making a personal test bed for amusement,but I just can't get excited about watching anyone do depth tests. I will be looking out for actual in field live hunt videos tho, so if you get any TN please post them.

Woodbutcher --

I would like to note that test gardens are NOT just for "personal amusement." That is a substantial understatement with respect to their utility, in my opinion. Instead, they are a very scientific tool. No, they do NOT determine directly what your "in the field" performance may be, with a given machine. BUT -- and this should not be understated -- what they DO do, is give you a way to experiment with different detectors, with THE REST OF THE VARIABLES IN YOUR EXPERIMENT HELD STEADY -- i.e. you are rendering essentially all of the variables "CONSTANTS" (except for possibly minute-to-minute EMI). This is what scientific experimentation is all about. In order to compare differences between two things, you have to hold your other variables as constants, so that when assessing your results, you can be certain that any changes you saw were the result of the ONLY variable in the experient -- i.e. in this case, that would be the machines being used -- and NOT from some other part of the experiment that was ALSO varying (i.e. that was not made a constant). In other words, test gardens can allow EXCELLENT education/tuition with respect to how one machine compares to another, in at least one environment. That, to me, from a scientific perspective is VERY valuable...

Steve

Well stated steveg.

From what I've seen on Calabash's video, the screen and the way they laid it out looks pleasing, crystal, and easy to navigate. Also, I don't see much depth difference between the D2 & the MC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well stated steveg.

This is the basic essence of a test garden or test field... to test the settings of the tested detector+coil, or to compare with another coil or another detector...,, the essence of such tests should be mainly educational... with the aim of getting to know... what the taxes will do detector settings...or find the best detector settings for the given terrain...

Guys ,I gotta disagree on these controlled tests. You take someone down south,with that loamy soil and watch them hitting coins at 14 inches in they're test bed..You come up here to Western Pennsylvania and bury any coin, anywhere you want,,and you don't stand a chance in hell with any machine on the market of hitting that coin at 14 inches.....yea, geographics play a bigger part than the science... Just sayin....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2022 11:14PM by Woodbutcher.

I second that Woodbutcher in Georgia Red clay you lucky to find a coin sized target over 9-10" max with any detector except maybe a PI.

I'll third that!----Come out here to our NW area(s) & try that. 88junior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I second that Woodbutcher in Georgia Red clay you
> lucky to find a coin sized target over 9-10" max w
> ith any detector except maybe a PI.

I agree that soil/minerals conditions are of primary importance to know.how best to set up a machine to perform best. That is why experimenting in your soil is important. I have two types of soil/mineral conditions on my sites, mild & pretty hot. That is why I have two separate test beds in my backyard, one native mild sandy loam & one I built (2'X12') of local hot red iron ore clay loam 1' deep. They are like night&day different in how all my detectors react. Without them I would still be wasting a lot of opportunities in the field in ignorance.
As it is, I have a convenient classroom that is always open. I use it often because I'm always coming up with a "What about this?" I also have test coins buried at my long term permissions.

Chris

Woodbutcher (Morgan & Del).
I live in FLORIDA.
I hunt FLORIDA dirt.
My test-garden is FLORIDA dirt.
Apples-to-apples-to-apples.

Say..... you live in PENNSYLVANIA.
You hunt PENNSYLVANIA dirt.
Your test-garden is PENNSYLVANIA dirt.
Again: apples-to-apples-to-apples.

My FLORIDA 14.0" & 14.2" deep dime........ is merely a reference-point....................... by way-of-comparison to you. And 14.0" & 14.2" is only ascertainable with a Recovery Speed of '2'. I may lose about an inch of depth/performance with a Recovery Speed of '4'.

Example =

BUT........ in your PENNSYLVANIA dirt test-garden...................you may learn that 10.3" & 10.6" deep dimes are ONLY ascertainable with a Recovery Speed of '4'. You may find that you lose about an inch of depth/performance with a Recovery Speed of '2'........due to: too much blowback/flyback/feedback of your dirt. You would only discover this.....with a PENNSYLVANIA test-garden.
GEOPHYSICS...... at play!!!

Sooooooo.......... does anyone expect you to ascertain 14.0" & 14.2" FLORIDA numbers........ in PENNSYLVANIA (or Georgia. or Oregon)? No. Certainly not.

Because there are infinite variables in the real-World......... should we expect to ascertain 14.0" & 14.2" dimes in every scenario...... in FLORIDA dirt? ................... No!
But........... because I have better understanding of detector configuration and geophysics...... I am better armed to adapt/improvise/overcome real-World (especially Florida dirt) scenarios.

Chief Design Engineers & Mfr's use test-gardens..........and with various geophysics dirt. Test-gardens are a critical part of the equation. Otherwise....... you would have detectors that are ONLY optimized for Australia dirt. Or ONLY optimized for Istanbul dirt.

He wasn't saying test gardens aren't beneficial. He is saying: watching someone else do a video in *their* test garden doesn't give him any great info to get excited about. He knows a detector's performance will vary for different soil conditions and most likely, the videos so far don't match his local soil. So, why get excited about 14+ inch coins in inert sandy soil unless you hunt in inert sandy soil? That's what I got out of it. All I can really gleam from the videos are: What it sounds like and a small picture of the graph and how it works. I already know once the coil hits my dirt, the 14+ inch coins are not happening.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He wasn't saying test gardens aren't beneficial.
> He is saying: watching someone else do a video in
> *their* test garden doesn't give him any great inf
> o to get excited about. He knows a detector's perf
> ormance will vary for different soil conditions an
> d most likely, the videos so far don't match his l
> ocal soil. So, why get excited about 14+ inch coi
> ns in inert sandy soil unless you hunt in inert sa
> ndy soil? That's what I got out of it. All I can
> really gleam from the videos are: What it sounds l
> ike and a small picture of the graph and how it wo
> rks. I already know once the coil hits my dirt, t
> he 14+ inch coins are not happening.


Thanks,this is exactly what I was saying

Ok. Understand. Good clarification!

I recall......at one time....... my Mother lived on Lake Oconee (Eatonton, GA)........ whereby........ if I brought a CZ coil within 7" of the ground...... the detector went into overload. Worst dirt I had ever encountered! Throwing a coin on the surface of the ground...... and the detector never knew it even existed! I switched to a SD-2100........and the detector would scream when you brought the coil to the ground....... then....... purred like a kitten. 14.0" and 14.2" dimes would happen...............BUT..............the caveat was: you would dig thousands of boot-tacks, nails, flecks/flakes of rust.....first; in order to find simply one non-ferrous! ((( PI's have zero Discrimination ))).