Manticore battery...looking for solutions to short run time...

Well I could tell when the battery back was topping off the MC as you would see the lightening bolt. If it was drained some it would be running the whole time. I might have to run another test.... But TOM could tell us if it better on the battery to start charging from 10% give or take instead of always just topping it off.

Mike

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike --
>
> That is outstanding news, and just what I was hopi
> ng for. You got 5 1/2 hours run time from the Ank
> er 321, still had a bit of life left in it, AND, y
> our Manticore was still fully charged (which for m
> e would be another 6 1/2 hours of detecting time i
> n ATHC.
>
> Perfect. Just what I was hoping for.
>
> I could be wrong, but I think (per another person'
> s explanation on another forum), that doing it "my
> way" would be better. If I understand this other
> person's point correctly, and it seems to make sen
> se, if you let the MC battery drain to near empty
> before plugging in the charger, the charge then ha
> s to charge the battery AND power the unit, at the
> same time. Whereas, if you start with a fully cha
> rged MC battery and plug in the charger, it ONLY h
> as to power the unit, and thus would last longer.
> I have left out a few details of what was explaine
> d, and maybe they were critical details, though th
> is is the "gist" of what I understood...
>
> Any thoughts on this? NASA-Tom?
>
> Steve

There should not be any negative consequences/implications by running the MC as light as possible...... for as long as possible. Then.... when the battery gets fairly low....... connect the external battery/charger (charging the battery in MC..... and running the electronics in MC). Chances are...... there is only so much output you will ascertain from the external battery.........................soooooo............................ I suspect the 'charging' of internal battery will be SLOW! ...... yet, the prolonged 'run-time' will be achieved.
I only have one minor concern: Will the external battery provide 'clean' power.........with zero "dirty DC splatter/ripple".,.,.,.,., subsequently.....causing a form of EMI. I sorta doubt this would happen.

TOM I'm going to guess this DC splatter/ripple would show up on the screen? I didn't see anything out of the norm but I will be sure to watch it a little more closer on the next outing.

As far as Sensitivity goes a guy was telling me that when you raise your sensitivity your not turning up the power. Your just boosting the return signal? He was saying one side of the coil sends out a signal and the other side receives it. Does this sound right? Thanks

Mike K

Mike....... IF there is any splatter/ripple....... it could show up in different areas. It may show up in the audio; yet, may be easily misdiagnosed as EMI. It 'might' show up on the screen........but slightly less-likely.

Sensitivity. When you turn "ON" most any detector........ it is transmitting at maximum power all the time. The user/operator has no control (or variability) of transmit power. When you adjust your sensitivity....... you are actually lowering the 'baseline' threshold ......lower-and-lower.......down into the noise. You are accepting weaker-and-weaker signals to pass into the headphones......by increasing sensitivity.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There should not be any negative consequences/impl
> ications by running the MC as light as possible...
> ... for as long as possible. Then.... when the bat
> tery gets fairly low....... connect the external b
> attery/charger (charging the battery in MC..... an
> d running the electronics in MC). Chances are.....
> . there is only so much output you will ascertain
> from the external battery.........................
> soooooo............................ I suspect the
> 'charging' of internal battery will be SLOW! .....
> . yet, the prolonged 'run-time' will be achieved.
> I only have one minor concern: Will the external b
> attery provide 'clean' power.........with zero "di
> rty DC splatter/ripple".,.,.,.,., subsequently....
> .causing a form of EMI. I sorta doubt this would h
> appen.


Excellent. That's what I was looking for, in terms of an answer. Thank you for the additional data.

Steve

Select the Target Recovery Mode power savings option so that when you set the detector down - it automatically stops transmitting until picked up again.

It's all software. Lots of possibilities.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

Gonebeepin' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Select the Target Recovery Mode power savings opti
> on so that when you set the detector down - it aut
> omatically stops transmitting until picked up agai
> n.
>
> It's all software. Lots of possibilities.

Is this actually "a thing?"

If so, I missed this in the manual...

Steve

Tom, is the Manticore one of the detectors operating at maximum power when turned ON? Thanks - Jim


NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sensitivity. When you turn "ON" most any detector.
> ....... it is transmitting at maximum power all th
> e time. The user/operator has no control (or varia
> bility) of transmit power. When you adjust your se
> nsitivity....... you are actually lowering the 'ba
> seline' threshold ......lower-and-lower.......down
> into the noise. You are accepting weaker-and-weake
> r signals to pass into the headphones......by incr
> easing sensitivity.

Jim...... for the most-part..... yes.

TOM: I'm not sure I understand this. When wouldn't it be at full power? Thanks Mike

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim...... for the most-part..... yes.

Mike,

There are some things I'm not at free will to divulge. But........ one example I CAN state: Beach Surf/Seawater Mode uses a different power level.
EQX Beach Mode-2 uses a different transmit power level also.

I got yea and Understand. Thank You....

Thank you Tom for what you can share with us. Much appreciated! - Jim





NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike,
>
> There are some things I'm not at free will to divu
> lge. But........ one example I CAN state: Beach Su
> rf/Seawater Mode uses a different power level.
> EQX Beach Mode-2 uses a different transmit power l
> evel also.

Well, at LEAST for now, my battery issues will be somewhat lessened, even BEFORE my power pack arrives, because -- I have begun to reach the conclusion that may not be hunting much in ATHC in most of my Oklahoma sites...

The Manticore in ATHC simply KICKED MY REAR END today. I ended up, after struggling for a few hours, having to switch into ATLC, to finish the hunt. It was simply unusable today, at the park I was hunting, in ATHC, due to wildly excessive high-tone iron falsing.

I would like to stress that it was NOT an issue where I was digging too many nails. For me, a majority (though not all) of the falses were RECOGNIZABLE as being such, after spending a few seconds interrogating/rotating around the target (which is typical for me, when dealing with falses with ANY machine). The issue, instead, was simply the DEGREE of falsing -- i.e. the sheer NUMBER of targets that were falsing...and THE FACT THAT THEY WERE HIGH-TONE falses. Because I was hunting deep high conductors today, the fact that ALL of the falses were HIGH-TONE falses, meant that I had to CHECK THEM ALL, at least briefly, to be sure that each one was indeed a false, and not a "legitimate" high tone. This was EXTREMELY time-consuming, and quite frustrating. I was wasting so much time interrogating SO MANY targets...it was a high-tone noise-fest. This is the second time I've experienced this with MC, in three hunts. The times I did not, were when hunting in target-sparse areas. But in areas where there are nails, it's a nightmare. I'm beginning to think that my "hot" iron-red dirt exacerbates this; bottom line thus far seems to be that if there are nails in the ground, and I'm on a "red-dirt" site, ATHC is not a reasonable hunt mode.

FWIW, my settings were recovery speed 3, upper limits 8 (moved to 9 to try and tame some of the falsing, to no avail...based on the 2D screen it would have required a much higher setting and still would not have "solved" the issue entirely), lower limits 3, sensitivity 22.

When I switched into ATLC, the problem was largely mitigated. Of course there was still the occasional false, but high-tone falsing was reduced by roughly 90 to 95%. As a result, this also allowed me to run sensitivity up to 26 to 27, since I was not forced to try to tame the falsing through lowered sensitivity, as I was in ATHC. The difference was night and day once I switched to ATLC -- it was a very "tame" machine, quite "Equinox-like," once I switched out of ATHC.

I realize that I don't have that many hours on the unit yet, BUT...I am not conviced that it's a matter of "needing more experience." Again, the issue wasn't that I couldn't sort out what were falses, and what were legitimate high tones, but instead it was that I had to stop A MILLION TIMES, and take a few seconds each time to confirm that they WERE falses. I felt like I was bogged down in quicksand unable to cover any ground.

Once I "tamed down" the machine with ATLC, I was able to manage a few wheat cents and a silver dime; all but one were "moderate" depth; I THINK the silver dime was on-edge but the MC nailed it. One of the wheat cents -- the deep one -- was deeper by a little bit (estimating almost an inch) than any that I ever dug with the Equinox, at an estimated 10" deep.

On the next hunt, I may test AT General, to see if it is close to being as "tame" as ATLC is...

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, at LEAST for now, my battery issues will be
> somewhat lessened, even BEFORE my power pack arriv
> es, because -- I have begun to reach the conclusio
> n that may not be hunting much in ATHC in most of
> my Oklahoma sites...
>
> The Manticore in ATHC simply KICKED MY REAR END to
> day. I ended up, after struggling for a few hours
> , having to switch into ATLC, to finish the hunt.
> It was simply unusable today, at the park I was hu
> nting, in ATHC, due to wildly excessive high-tone
> iron falsing.
>
> I would like to stress that it was NOT an issue wh
> ere I was digging too many nails. For me, a major
> ity (though not all) of the falses were RECOGNIZAB
> LE as being such, after spending a few seconds int
> errogating/rotating around the target (which is ty
> pical for me, when dealing with falses with ANY ma
> chine). The issue, instead, was simply the DEGREE
> of falsing -- i.e. the sheer NUMBER of targets tha
> t were falsing...and THE FACT THAT THEY WERE HI
> GH-TONE falses. Because I was hunting deep hi
> gh conductors today, the fact that ALL of the fals
> es were HIGH-TONE falses, meant that I had to CHEC
> K THEM ALL, at least briefly, to be sure that each
> one was indeed a false, and not a "legitimate" hig
> h tone. This was EXTREMELY time-consuming, and qu
> ite frustrating. I was wasting so much time inter
> rogating SO MANY targets...it was a high-tone nois
> e-fest. This is the second time I've experienced
> this with MC, in three hunts. The times I did not
> , were when hunting in target-sparse areas. But i
> n areas where there are nails, it's a nightmare. I
> 'm beginning to think that my "hot" iron-red dirt
> exacerbates this; bottom line thus far seems to be
> that if there are nails in the ground, and I'm on
> a "red-dirt" site, ATHC is not a reasonable hunt m
> ode.
>
> FWIW, my settings were recovery speed 3, upper lim
> its 8 (moved to 9 to try and tame some of the fals
> ing, to no avail...based on the 2D screen it would
> have required a much higher setting and still woul
> d not have "solved" the issue entirely), lower lim
> its 3, sensitivity 22.
>
> When I switched into ATLC, the problem was larg
> ely mitigated. Of course there was still the
> occasional false, but high-tone falsing was reduce
> d by roughly 90 to 95%. As a result, this
> also allowed me to run sensitivity up to 26 to 27,
> since I was not forced to try to tame the falsing
> through lowered sensitivity, as I was in ATHC. Th
> e difference was night and day once I switched to
> ATLC -- it was a very "tame" machine, quite "Equin
> ox-like," once I switched out of ATHC.
>
> I realize that I don't have that many hours on the
> unit yet, BUT...I am not conviced that it's a matt
> er of "needing more experience." Again, the issue
> wasn't that I couldn't sort out what were falses,
> and what were legitimate high tones, but instead i
> t was that I had to stop A MILLION TIMES, and take
> a few seconds each time to confirm that they WERE
> falses. I felt like I was bogged down in quicksan
> d unable to cover any ground.
>
> Once I "tamed down" the machine with ATLC, I was a
> ble to manage a few wheat cents and a silver dime;
> all but one were "moderate" depth; I THINK the sil
> ver dime was on-edge but the MC nailed it. One of
> the wheat cents -- the deep one -- was deeper by a
> little bit (estimating almost an inch) than any th
> at I ever dug with the Equinox, at an estimated 10
> " deep.
>
> On the next hunt, I may test AT General, to see if
> it is close to being as "tame" as ATLC is...
>
> Steve

Steve pretty much what I'm finding. ATLC seems to minimize falling and still gets deepon coins. ATG seems to work pretty good also . Lowering my sensitivity to 16-18 helps a lot in all modes and still seems to get plenty deep. The more I use the Manticore the more I like it.

That is the point sensitivity should be lower... you avoid noise from the ground and falsing and you get a better ID.

Steve......... I'm glad you discovered All Terrain Low Conductors for your situation.
How slow was your sweep-speed whilst in AT High Conductors?
Yes....... DO try AT General........ after some more experience in heavy nails whilst in AT Low Conductors!

Shelton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is the point sensitivity should be lower... y
> ou avoid noise from the ground and falsing and you
> get a better ID.


Shelton,

I was already running my sensitivity lower than what I "could have" if I were only considering the EMI issues. In other words, I WAS trying to utilize the idea of lower sensitivity to try and help to mitigate the situation.

SINCE I was hunting for DEEP coins, specifically, though, I did not want to lower it TOO much (and risk limiting my depth too much). That's why I instead opted for ATLC, which actually then allowed me to RAISE sensitivity without "ill effects" with respect to both EMI, and falsing.

At some point, if you are SPECIFICALLY targeting deep coins (which are often all that are left in our heavily hunted public areas, where nearly all of the shallower coins have been found by prior hunters over the past several decades), you need all the help you can get, in terms of "depth." Exceeding the depth that prior hunters, using older machines, could achieve, is one place where you can exploit an advantage...an advantage that gets undermined by having to lower sensitivity too far...

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2023 10:28PM by steveg.

NASA-Tom,

I was sweeping at what in my mind was a slow speed; this is something I do in general, after so many years of hunting Minelab units...the old "low and slow" mantra is drilled into my head, LOL!

I am "with you," in the idea that sweep speed really matters. When I DO hit a suspected false, that needs just a bit of interrogating to confirm, I will always vary/slow down my sweep speed substantially, as this offers excellent intel (i.e. how the signal changes with changing sweep speed) that helps to sort out a false, from a "good" high tone.

Yes, this is exactly the plan; get "used to" ATLC, and then "bump up" to general. I'm assuming that general would have a bit more weight toward frequencies that might help "re-acquire" some of the slight depth loss incurred by switching from ATHC to ATLC, but I'd also assume that the falsing will probably fall somewhere between that of ATHC and ATLC. Yes? Clearly, testing is in order...

So, am I correct that the Manticore's "high xmit power," coupled with a frequency weighting skewed to the low side in ATHC, combined with my irony red dirt, is simply going to be "too much," at times, for the machine to run "stable" (i.e. without excessive falsing)? In other words, it's not a FLAW in the unit, that can be "fixed," but instead is more of a case where you have to know your dirt, know your machine, and utilize the mode that is best suited for the situation? From that perspective, the MC having the different modes is VERY advantageous. I had NO trouble, once I switched to ATLC. I must say, I was shocked. It was a night-and-day difference...I mean a STARTLING difference. I would have NEVER expected that the difference could be that drastic...just by a switch of detecting mode (all other settings remaining the same, except with an INCREASE in sensitivity, that this mode allowed).

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2023 10:31PM by steveg.

Steve........ It sounds like mineral blowback/feedback and EMI was hindering your performance at this particular site......whilst in A.T. High Conductors. Yes....... it can be night-and-day differences when switching to A.T. Low Conductors. A.T. General will show/express yet, another facet of variables..... that may/may-not work out to your advantage. And....... with your minerals.,.,.,.,. maybe a Recovery Speed of 4 (or 5) might also show uniquenesses...... possible improvements.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve........ It sounds like mineral blowback/feed
> back and EMI was hindering your performance at thi
> s particular site......whilst in A.T. High Conduct
> ors. Yes....... it can be night-and-day difference
> s when switching to A.T. Low Conductors. A.T. Gene
> ral will show/express yet, another facet of variab
> les..... that may/may-not work out to your advanta
> ge. And....... with your minerals.,.,.,.,. maybe a
> Recovery Speed of 4 (or 5) might also show uniquen
> esses...... possible improvements.

NASA-Tom, thanks for this information. Gives me plenty of things to consider/adjust. As "discouraged" as I was through the first half of that hunt, I became equally ENCOURAGED to find how much difference that can be ascertained by adjusting the machine, for the conditions...

I have said before that I like to "set it and forget it," for the most part, when using a new machine, as I simply try to get a consistent set of behaviors/sounds fed back to me, for awhile, that are NOT varying due to constant settings changes. I like to limit all of the settings adjustments/changes until LATER, after I understand the machine better. BUT -- while this particular change was necessitated earlier than I would have liked,it appears to have been "fortuitously so..."

Thank you!

True. You may not be at peak performance (and......... in some cases.........possibly FAR, FAR from it)........ if unit is not set up (dialed-in) to.......(sometimes) HARSH environmental conditions.

Steve Here Is the Highlights of the Anker 321 Power Bank (PowerCore 5K), 5,200mAh Portable Charger.

General Settings
Screen max brightness.
Sensitivity at 22-25.
Vol at 25
Headphones paired and turned down
No vibration selected.
No keypad lighting selected.
ATG High Conductor program.

Test 1 Full Battery
With the Anker 321 5200 mAh battery bank I detected 5 1/2" hours today and started with a full battery. I was gonna put a video together lol. But here is the meat of it. The Anker has 4 LEDs and at the end of 5 1/2 hours it was on 1 of 4 LEDs flashing and My Manticore was still fully charged. Not bad for a $25 investment. I probably would do as TOM suggested wait till it gets to about 10% and then turn it on.

Test 2 Battery At or Near 20%
I finished up testing the Anker 321 Battery Bank I will be doing a video But here is the meat of it. This time I started with a battery at about 20% and turned on The Manticore and the Anker Power Bank and started detecting it charged the detector to about 60-65% while I was detecting. The power bank total run time 2hrs and about 15min. So if you figure your detector will detect in AT HC for about 7-7.5hrs or so I've heard, You get another 2hr 15mins while charging / detecting at the same time. Plus now at least another 3+ hours. That's a really really long day detecting lol. For $25 I wasn't getting any kind of EMI interference it's light weight I didn't even know if was there to tell yea the truth. I will post my video here when done but for those that just want details here you are.

Mike K



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2023 01:28AM by Mike K.

Really good reporting, Mike. Thank you!

This is perfect, and just what I had hoped. Mine just came yesterday, so I should be good to go, based on your testing.

The device is very small, and very light -- moreso on each of those points than I had expected.

Thank you!

Steve

Here Is My YouTube Unboxing Video it's my first so it's a little rough around the edges lol.

Anker Power Bank Review for the Manticore.

Here's a way to run (attach) external battery to Manticore.
This setup easily put on or taken off.
One could start out with full battery and after 5 hours of detecting install battery with mount quick and keep on detecting while detector battery is indeed charging.

Enjoy.
[m.youtube.com]

MIke,

Nice review!

It looks to me like either approach -- starting with the MC battery full and hooking up the charger from the start, to keep the MC battery "topped off," OR, letting the MC battery run down a good bit BEFORE hooking up the charger, will substantially increase your run time.

For your first test, when starting with the full battery, and hooking up the charger from the start, you were at 5 1/2 hours detecting time, in ATHC, still had one light out of four flashing on the Anker 321 and you had a fully charged Manticore battery. SO, just using rough numbers, that 5 1/2 hours from the Anker (maybe you could have gotten 6 hours before it died), and roughly 6 1/2 to 7 hours then available from the MC battery, gives at least 12 hours total run time, which should be PLENTY for most folks. That brings the MC back up to, or even exceeding, the EQX run time. This test showed that the Anker charger was able to both KEEP THE MACHINE TOPPED OFF, while at the same time ALSO providing enough power for the MC to run properly in ATHC.

Meanwhile, on the second test, when you started with roughly 20% charge on the MC, and then hooked up the charger, it was able to BOTH a). run the machine for an extra 2 hours 15 minutes, AND b). increase the charge of the MC battery substantially, at the same time. IN other words, it's putting out PLENTY of power -- enough to charge the MC (at least partially) AND provide the MC with enough operating power at the same time. It was clear that after the 2 hours 15 minutes that you got out of the charger in that second test, the MC battery was recharged to the point where you would have had several hours of additional run time available.

SO -- either method will work; I still think I prefer the "hook it up from the start" method. However, which method you use could at times be dictated by weather conditions. Because, as another poster pointed out elsewhere, the charger apparently should NOT be used if the conditions are wet, and DEFINITELY underwater per the manual (due to the way the magnetic charge port functions), AND the power pack ALSO should not be used to charge the MC if temperatures are below freezing (per the manual), which is, apparently, a characteristic of lithium batteries...the internal MC battery can apparently be permanently damaged if charged when temperatures are below 32F/0C.

Anyway, very good testing, and it's great to have these results available, for anyone needing more battery run time, and looking for an appropriate portable charger.

Thanks!

Steve