Dilek just dropped the gauntlet

ScoTTT2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I purposely made the statement which included "sou
> r taste" a general one, as to describe things I av
> oid watching. But to include Nokta in that stateme
> nt would be for the reason that it was the third t
> ime that quickly came to mind where Nokta either d
> own-plaid the intelligence of the end-user or an o
> pinion of an end-user that differed from what Nokt
> a wanted to hear or portray.
> As an end-user, and one that is in the market to
> buy a new machine or two, I 've been studying wher
> e it is I should spend my money.
> I may have missed where another company has said
> that your machines are no good or not as good or r
> eally anything at all about your company. Please d
> irect me to that statement.
> I have heard however, your statement of "best val
> ue", being equal to or better than the competition
> (one company in particular) for less money. If ind
> eed you are vying for my money, the burden of proo
> f is on you.
> Should I spend my money on your machine because
> you say it's as good? or, as Loren said, "so close
> it doesn't matter" and save a couple dollars...or
> maybe with the company whose machine is just as go
> od, but doesn't downplay my opinion or intelligenc
> e, for a few dollars more?
> If one feature is worth the extra money, then so
> be it.


Thank you! ''If one feature is worth the extra money, then so be it.''You are just agreeing to what I said in the video though. We have a lot of respect for customers' decisions. And we are fighting those who are downplaying the customers' intelligence and trying to impose ''the best detector'' on them. So it's actually really interesting that we are saying the same thing but looking at it from different sides. It may be the fact that each user has access to limited information and more locally. Our products have proven themselves already... if you look at global sales numbers, you could easily see that. So the effort is not about selling more... it's about fairness and having a healthy competition. Anyway, this can go on forever and it's best I, at least, end it here. Was a nice discussion though...

No offence intended.

Nokta/Makro is the only reason these other companies are stepping up to the plate and reworking they're old tired tech. .. Minelab is starting to get like Fisher, putting out a watered down equinox and calling it a Xterra Pro...And XP deus did it too with the ORX ....
You guys ought to be giving Nokta/Makro credit for making these other tired companies get off their asses and get back in the game... Xterra PRO? Lol
The only thing I haven't figured out yet is which Equinox they watered down,the 600,700,800 or the 900..give me a freaking break



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2023 04:25AM by Woodbutcher.

This I feel is definitely combative behavior. Never seen a company like this. It's almost like watching a political ad in the USA. They talk alot about how bad the other guy is before talking about their own promises. I absolutely hate that kind of advertising. Also to note... Daniel has been detecting for decades like me and many others on here so to call him out as if he "wouldn't understand" is calling many of us stupid.. some different wording would have been nice like ..."please understand"this is our business model. Maybe I'm wrong or read it wrong idk. But to spend half of your videos simply attacking people and competing companies is not helpful imo.

Agree.

And =
Let the end-user perform the head-to-head comparison.

This will be my only post in this thread. I will not be responding to anyone here period in this thread should they reply to what I am going to say.

For the record I bought Legend detector.
I tested Legend detector and used in the wild.
I based my opinion on using the Legend on what had been said by marketing person.
For example. Legend would do what Equinox would do and then some.

So, I when I first received unit revisited an issue I believe current at the time version 1.08 was yielding.
I did video showing the older version 1.05 I think it was to the newer V1.08. And noted a flaw. A flaw that actually had been shown earlier by another youtuber.
I posted the results here on this forum I think. And it was said by a particular person no problems with Legend.
Even other folks were saying they couldn't duplicate. Hard for me to believe this as this could be seen very easy with just one nickel and vary GB manually and note ID presented.
It was said it was not a flaw, rather caused by not doing machine resets after update. This by my own account using actual detector was BS.

Next I discovered Legend fell way short using a land based (soil) program when trying to get high conductor targets to yield more correct higher conductive ID when higher conductors were in fact - masking (partially at least) by lower conductive trash like foil and real small aluminum , etc.
I was even able to show this -- on both elevated above ground as well as I showed on onetarget in the wild via video and posted.
The defendo Legends folks were saying my tests results flawed as ID scale different on Legend vs Eqx. Well, I showed this via video was NOT true. Using a fixed level conductive target to compare the detector models.

Calabash digger even showed where use of ferro check was flawed in its by the book use when checking targets.

All of what I showed and talked about along with what Calabash showed with ferro check -- Was labeled as bashing, hit job, etc on Legend and perhaps even on Nokta Company.
Neither is true.

I put the Deus 2 through same/similar tests -- even the mighty Manticore doing prerelease testing.

Bottom line. No detector I get gets a free ride.
I shake all down best I can to see possible flaws, and tendencies.
I show these via YouTube and post on some forums on public released detectors.

So with what I showed and what Calabash showed.
What happened later on?
Guess.
New version of Legend software incorporates bottle cap setting.
New version of Legend software adds new Park M3 mode to better cope with higher conductors being masked by smaller lower conductors.
New version elimafed flaw with lower conductor target ID being improper as ground phase was increased.

So in the end Legend improved.

Were my efforts and Calabaah's efforts the reason for the improvements?
IDK.
I do know both I and Calabash are neither liars, BSers, etc.

I never charged Nokta a penny for my efforts. Nor did Calabash.

I will even go on to say here. Certain person was directing folks not to watch you tube testers of Legend.

Yeah.
I look at all models in get. I show no preferential treatment to not one.
They are what they are.

And could my finding the flaws help make a unit better. Seems so.

Cheers and have a good day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2023 03:47PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This will be my only post in this thread. I will
> not be responding to anyone here period in this th
> read should they reply to what I am going to say.
>
> For the record I bought Legend detector.
> I tested Legend detector and used in the wild.
> I based my opinion on using the Legend on what had
> been said by marketing person.
> For example. Legend would do what Equinox would d
> o and then some.
>
> So, I when I first received unit revisited an issu
> e I believe current at the time version 1.08 was y
> ielding.
> I did video showing the older version 1.05 I think
> it was to the newer V1.08. And noted a flaw. A f
> law that actually had been shown earlier by anothe
> r youtuber.
> I posted the results here on this forum I think.
> And it was said by a particular person no problems
> with Legend.
> Even other folks were saying they couldn't duplica
> te. Hard for me to believe this as this could be
> seen very easy with just one nickel and vary GB ma
> nually and note ID presented.
> It was said it was not a flaw, rather caused by no
> t doing machine resets after update. This by my o
> wn account using actual detector was BS.
>
> Next I discovered Legend fell way short using a la
> nd based (soil) program when trying to get high co
> nductor targets to yield more correct higher cond
> uctive ID when higher conductors were in fact - ma
> sking (partially at least) by lower conductive tra
> sh like foil and real small aluminum , etc.
> I was even able to show this -- on both elevated a
> bove ground as well as I showed on onetarget in th
> e wild via video and posted.
> The defendo Legends folks were saying my tests res
> ults flawed as ID scale different on Legend vs Eqx
> . Well, I showed this via video was NOT true. Us
> ing a fixed level conductive target to compare the
> detector models.
>
> Calabash digger even showed where use of ferro che
> ck was flawed in its by the book use when checking
> targets.
>
> All of what I showed and talked about along with w
> hat Calabash showed with ferro check -- Was labele
> d as bashing, hit job, etc on Legend and perhaps e
> ven on Nokta Company.
> Neither is true.
>
> I put the Deus 2 through same/similar tests -- eve
> n the mighty Manticore doing prerelease testing.
>
> Bottom line. No detector I get gets a free ride.
> I shake all down best I can to see possible flaws,
> and tendencies.
> I show these via YouTube and post on some forums o
> n public released detectors.
>
> So with what I showed and what Calabash showed.
> What happened later on?
> Guess.
> New version of Legend software incorporates bottle
> cap setting.
> New version of Legend software adds new Park M3 mo
> de to better cope with higher conductors being mas
> ked by smaller lower conductors.
> New version elimafed flaw with lower conductor tar
> get ID being improper as ground phase was increase
> d.
>
> So in the end Legend improved.
>
> Were my efforts and Calabaah's efforts the reason
> for the improvements?
> IDK.
> I do know both I and Calabash are neither liars, B
> Sers, etc.
>
> I never charged Nokta a penny for my efforts. Nor
> did Calabash.
>
> I will even go on to say here. Certain person was
> directing folks not to watch you tube testers of L
> egend.
>
> Yeah.
> I look at all models in get. I show no preferenti
> al treatment to not one.
> They are what they are.
>
> And could my finding the flaws help make a unit be
> tter. Seems so.
>
> Cheers and have a good day.

Hi there... as I try to show respect to every one, I will talk to you directly instead of calling you ''that person'' etc. and I would also like to say one thing.. Calabash wrote on this same forum that the product cannot be as good as the others because of its price point...before even 1 person got it in their hands! Now is that not a biased comment? And he also said that we copied the Pitch Tone - like it was firstly used in Deus 2! Pitch Tone is so old I cannot even remember when it was used on a machine first ...We are not against input and we are 1 company that loves it BUT WHEN IT'S DONE ethically and respectfully AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FAIRLY. Yes we added a lot of things to Legend but stop taking all the credit to yourself or your friend. We asked the people on the FB group what they would like to see in the Legend and we acted on their wishes - the post is still there and you can see it yourself. For some reason, you guys loved to find a fault with the Legend yet were very quiet about the faults of the units that cost a lot more. The crowd out there may not be as experienced as some of the people on this forum and they get misled by some of the things they hear or watch. Listen, this subject is really getting me tired too...at the end of the day we and all our users know what Legend is capable of... and the growing sales numbers are the biggest proof... and being at one of the biggest hunts now, all the people who come up to us and thank us are more important than this whole endless debate... The funny thing you cannot realize is that I am personally on the end-user side of this story...you and anybody else who is a user... and I try to avoid any conflict until somebody gives me the right to respond with their comments ... you continue to do what you think is right ...and I will do the same... I will fight for the sake of all end users especially the ones who are not that experienced and for their hard earned money. Listen, I put all this behind and have no issue with you or your friend .... whether you and Calabash do the same or not is all up to you...everything is cool on my end...cheers!

I've been at this a long time, and I'm pretty sure my finds are just as good as any other hobbyist on these forums. I don't consider myself an expert,and I'm not a narcissist telling everyone that my opinions are facts... But there seems to been a few hobbyist doing that in the last 5 years, on this forum and every other forums ..It's a hobbie ,that's it. The experts are in the drawing rooms coming up with new R&D to make money and hopefully help out the hobbie.
I started to get drawn into this XTerra pro thing and the fact is I could care less. Won't own one,won't buy one, I'm not a newbie starting out in the hobbie and I have better machines now that serve my purposes..And I really doubt any of the guys making videos,or giving uneducated guesses about the Xterra pro will be using one next week..When the videos dry up and the shows over you'll not hear another peep about this machine.For a cheap starter machine there sure seems to be a lot of ruckus,,,let's see if the guys babbling about how good it is are using it in any real live digs a month down the road..I already have my opinion on that, I say no ..Time to move on to something a little more productive...I've said it before,my test bed has more time in this hobbie than the self proclaimed experts.....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2023 09:08PM by Woodbutcher.

VERY WELL SAID Woodbutcher.----My test bed also has more time in this hobby than some of these self proclaimed "experts" popping in & out of these different forums recently.---Wisdom/lessons learned over MANY years through the school of "hard knocks" is what really counts.----Moral of the story---do your OWN work detector testings/hunt site evaluations/efforts)-you will be glad you did as an end result.----Your find rates will speak for themselves.----- Woodbutcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been at this a long time, and I'm pretty sure
> my finds are just as good as any other hobbyist on
> these forums. I don't consider myself an expert,an
> d I'm not a narcissist telling everyone that my op
> inions are facts... But there seems to been a few
> hobbyist doing that in the last 5 years, on this f
> orum and every other forums ..It's a hobbie ,that'
> s it. The experts are in the drawing rooms coming
> up with new R&D to make money and hopefully help o
> ut the hobbie.
> I started to get drawn into this XTerra pro thing
> and the fact is I could care less. Won't own one,w
> on't buy one, I'm not a newbie starting out in the
> hobbie and I have better machines now that serve m
> y purposes..And I really doubt any of the guys mak
> ing videos,or giving uneducated guesses about the
> Xterra pro will be using one next week..When the v
> ideos dry up and the shows over you'll not hear an
> other peep about this machine.For a cheap starter
> machine there sure seems to be a lot of ruckus,,,l
> et's see if the guys babbling about how good it is
> are using it in any real live digs a month down th
> e road..I already have my opinion on that, I say n
> o ..Time to move on to something a little more pro
> ductive...I've said it before,my test bed has more
> time in this hobbie than the self proclaimed exper
> ts.....

basstrackerman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Never seen a company like this.


I agree, but to me it's refreshing. Not annoying at all.

dave_e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> basstrackerman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Never seen a company like this.
>
>
> I agree, but to me it's refreshing. Not annoying
> at all.

Yeah it's not refreshing at all to have a company try and silence people that just don't agree with them. Sounds too political and controlling. Venezuela? Lol.

Wasn't Minelab the one who stated [ad-nausem] in the runup to the Equinox release : "This detector will obsolete all other detectors" ?
Why yes, it was. So don't insult everyone intelligence trying to defend minelab as high and mighty and above the fray - They if anyone can engage in crass marketeering and overhyped sensationalism more so than anyone else.

This has actually become an interesting thread. Nokta has set the standard for customer service and interaction with Dilek's presence and clearly there are a lot of other brand fanboys who seem to have a problem with it. I think a while back there was a representative from Fisher , Scott something or other , who tried to maintain an interactive presence with Fisher users but I haven't seen him or any other company put forth a rep to actively engage end users even though many users have clamored for it. Minelab has none to engage in questions about their outrageous advertising other than thin skinned Stevie in his ivory tower and Tom is shackled by knowing they will pull a lawyer from the Nokta suit to sue him for NDA violations should he say the wrong thing.

This thread reveals those with skid marks on their foreheads from having their head up their butt who can't seem to accept a rep defending a product which they see as a righteous competitor.

X Terra Pro lol Not for me but a killer starter. Video's I've seen it handles EMI well. Thats half the battle in park hunting.

Shoveler with best insight and summation.

In the end it’s all really about what it’s always been about money and ego stroking. Companies like Minelab and Nokta only care about the bottom line totals and not the consumer. Minelab sues and Dilek spews.

I say, in the end, a metal detector is an inanimate object. Having a love affair relationship with one, or a company, or rep for a company is just plain stupid. I don't care which one it is, or who it is. They are tools and nothing more. But I get it. Some of you are into drama and probably idolize that Joy Behar whoohaw from The View TV show too for being your voice.

Anyone who thinks thin skinned Stevie represents Minelab is an ignorant fool. Typical of the gutless types that hide behind fake screen names and a keyboard though, thinking they are oh so brave as they attempt smear others from their own anonymous ivory towers.

There is a guy on detector prospector with the same name that has the same 60 grit personality as you.
Coincidence?

Does anyone remember the guy who did all the "testing" and pimping when Minelab introduced the Equinox?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2023 03:20AM by shoveler.

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a guy on detector prospector with the sam
> e name that has the same 60 grit personality as yo
> u.
> Coincidence?

Hahahahaha good analogy!!! I am interested to see the answer if any.