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F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE

Posted by Coinseeker 78 
F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 28, 2012 12:00AM
I am a bit confused about which is the better silver machine. I have read many statements the F75 will unmask silver better then Minelabs and go as deep. So why does the majority think the Minelabs are better for finding silver? I realize the Minelabs are supposed to be better in highly mineralized soil but in moderate soils why would they be still better. I owned an Explorer SE for 3 years and found quite a bit of silver but also have found more silver in a shorter time with the F70 in the same hunting grounds. I have compared deep signals side by side with the Explorer SE and F70 and never have missed a signal that a Minelab has found. Having used both detectors I can't find an advantage in the Explorers over the Fisher F70/75. What am I missing?
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 28, 2012 03:29AM
I don't get it either. On one hand the idea that my F70 that cost half as much as an Etrac should even be on the same field seems too idiotic to even contemplate. Even the Explorers cost much more. So it stands to reason that they should be much better. But then there is the real world comparisons that I see every time I hunt with other detectorists. Everyone in my area uses Minelabs. If they are able to get deeper or detect coins that I can't hit than it stands to reason that they should be finder more seated dimes than I do. But they don't. Nobody gets those on a regular basis here. If Minelabs trump me than shouldn't they be able to produce older coins more consistant then me? Also every single time I have taken a Minelab user to one of my "secret spots" that I cleaned out with the F70 the Minelab score zilch. How can that be?
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 28, 2012 03:40AM
I don't think you're missing a thing Coinseeker. I had the same results. My sweethearts are the cz3d and the f-75....that's all I need, bases are covered........for now.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 28, 2012 04:01AM
what kind of soil do you guys have? mild, medium or high mineralized soil??
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 28, 2012 05:57AM
My soil seems to run from mild to medium here in Indiana.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 02:30AM
Agree.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 03:16AM
It is mostly a case of which machine works best for any given individual.If you learn any of the top end machines and learn them well with many hundreds of hours at various sites you will get great results.Site location can make a big difference though as the Fishers do not handle a lot of the higher EMI sites as well as the Minelabs and the E-Tracs for sure.The E-Trac is the most stable of all machines mentioned when operated at the upper end of the sensitivity range.I have many hundreds of hours logged on the CZ3D, F75,Explorer II & SE as well as the E-Trac and the E-Trac has become my main go to machine hands down because of the results I obtain with it.
I hunt mostly moderate to moderate to medium-heavy mineralized soils mostly for old coinage and some CW relics.
If you learn your machine "inside out" so to speak and have faith in it along with sites that have good targets you will do well in my experience based on over 35 years of detecting.I hunted for many years with a 1265X and put a lot of hunting partners to shame with their much newer,more advanced machines because my old 1265 and I had become "as one" you might say .....
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 03:42AM
I think the key is heavy mineralization. The Trac & Explorer excel in heavy minerals. Outside of that, I think several units can meet or best them. And for far less cost of the detector.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 12:54PM
My ground is low in mineralization at only 1%' but of that has a high level of iron mineralization. The Omegabdid noticeably better on coins than the T2 in my ground. The V3i was better than the T2 and maybe better than the Omega, but not by much. The E-Trac has been the best of the bunch, clearly. I think it's from the iron mineralization. It also unmasks in iron better, which has shocked me.

Clearly the ground seems to usually be the deciding factor.

I'm still not brand loyal and look forward to that new Fisher CZ. That said, I find the E-Trac's 2D screen and Fe numbers make finding deeper coins easier.

EMS
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 02:01PM
Heck if an F70 works for you an F75 will also and is a better unit.

As far as Explorers go I feel they have the best guts of any when it comes to finding silver coins but are just too darn heavy for many along with a learning period.

As an addendum heck I am a CZ guy and they work for me but certainly 20 years experience with one helps.

This is not something I read in a book as I tried them all and believe me if the F series works for you stay with it as we are all individuals and personal preferences, likes and dislikes all come into play and in the end use something you are comfortable with that works for you.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 08:24PM
I've hunted side by side with F75-lite users and they were not able to hear deep silver that I could (With an Explorer) AT ALL. You can be 90% sure on most deep silver coins so you can ask folks to compare. No matter what changes they made - the detector didn't make a peep. Once, two barber dimes came out of the same hole. The LTD was a little different story - it could hear everything, but couldn't ID it properly. What I saw is you have to dig anything that's deep because the target ID is off, where the Explorer user is nearly certain on every deep target. The LTD registered a dime as low as 55 in some areas - and deep Indians were in the iron range.

And you're right about ergonomics - I have no idea what they were thinking with the Exporer, but I just deal with the pain, because it's best at detecing the deep targets that are still there.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 29, 2012 09:09PM
Shambler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've hunted side by side with F75-lite users and
> they were not able to hear deep silver that I
> could (With an Explorer) AT ALL. You can be 90%
> sure on most deep silver coins so you can ask
> folks to compare. No matter what changes they
> made - the detector didn't make a peep. Once, two
> barber dimes came out of the same hole. The LTD
> was a little different story - it could hear
> everything, but couldn't ID it properly. What I
> saw is you have to dig anything that's deep
> because the target ID is off, where the Explorer
> user is nearly certain on every deep target. The
> LTD registered a dime as low as 55 in some areas -
> and deep Indians were in the iron range.
>
> And you're right about ergonomics - I have no idea
> what they were thinking with the Exporer, but I
> just deal with the pain, because it's best at
> detecing the deep targets that are still there.

I compared my V3i to my E-Trac on some 8" coins, but not silver. The V3i would hit them but most of the time I would never have dug such a jumpy VDI in a moderately trashy place as it all sounds like that! A jumpy Fe number on a 2D screen, with a relatively stable CO number and consistent sound, just stands out. I was doing this from week one with the E-Trac. Again, the iron mineralization was taking it's toll with the V3i but not the E -Trac, wierd?

EMS
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 30, 2012 03:05AM
That has been my finding as well. When I first got the eTrac I still had the T2 with boost mode. The eTrac could ID things better in the ground to depth....vs the T2 that could also see the signal BUT wouldn't ID them correct. If you were just ignoring ID numbers on the F75 - T2, then you're good....if going by ID...then you're leaving silver and other goodies in the ground cause often times they only ID as iron-tab....silver dimes in my dirt. The eTrac don't go deeper per signal strength but it can ID the coins correctly at depth.

Since having a few sets of batteries under my belt on the eTrac and getting a good feel for it on relics....I'm seeing now that it is doing the same thing at depth on relics. No more having to dig iffy signals to get bullets at 10-13 inches....and on the eTrac EVERY time I have had a signal in the 33-35 range on the ferrous side...it has been iron. I have gotten confident trusting that its not lying when its that far low on the scale.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 30, 2012 03:29AM
I would love to see that. By any chance, Shambler are you the guy from Vincennes(if so I know some great places in Daviess and Martin Co)? Its not that I don't believe you. Its more that I wonder what settings the F70 man was using and trying to adjust to. If he didn't get it cranked up to 99 sens, +9 thres than I would say its very possible he didn't hear anything. I had so many people tell me when I first got the machine to not run it so hot. I was always getting recommendations to run the sens at 80-85 and the thres a 0 or -1. When I do that I don't get near the depth or the unmasking capabiltiy. When I run those setting the machine is no where near what my friends Minelabs get but so far when I run it maxed out no one can humiliate me. I think its also a matter of knowing the machine. You make it sound like getting a 55 ID on the LTD was somehow not a good signal for a deep silver coin. Knowing the sounds of my F70 and seeing a weak 55 ID is one of the best signals I can get. Thats one of the many reasons I espouse the 2F tone. I hope you don't take me as argumenitive. But I am very stubborn and for me seeing is believing. Every time I go out I hope my Minelab friends can kick my butt so as to prove to me once and for all that the expensive detector is the best detector. So far all I have seen is that I can pay off my detector quicker than they can.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 30, 2012 08:28AM
I would like to know how heavy the Etrac feels compaired to the V3i which I could swing all day the gold pro was heavy...the G2, F75, T2 were very light and balanced...

LowBoy
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 30, 2012 11:20AM
The eTrac is a lot more balanced than the Explorer was....they done a little to it to help. The 11" Pro coil was a big part in it, as well as the carbon fiber lower rod. They changed the angle of the grip too. It still isn't as balanced as a F75/T2....especially when you put the SunRay probe on it. The V3 is balanced decently well...with the position of the grip and arm cuff, it puts some weight behind the elbow which helps balance it. The eTrac has everything forward of the grip, which puts a lot of stress on your forearm. If it wasn't for the arm strap I would give out in just a few hrs with it. And this is coming from a guy who has swung the Minelab GPXs for 10+ hrs and never had a sore arm muscle.

I done a video that I never published, with the T2 and eTrac setup with just enough disc to knock out a nail. I show the target sound and ID on a silver dime. There are other guys with similar videos. Point to them is this....pulltab range ain't where a silver dime should be IDing on a $800+ detector. With the eTrac it still shows it where it should be. Sure, you can have a F75 and use it like a non metered "beep and dig" machine. But for cherry picking a site via ID and utilizing your ID meter to up your keeper to trash ratio...the eTrac is one of the best out there. Heck if I wanted ungodly depth with a beep/dig machine, I would take a TDI or GPX pulse machine and dig everything. Especially in mineralized ground! No VLF could touch that....but you're gonna be Diggin a lot.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 03:33AM
Shambler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,
> And you're right about ergonomics - I have no idea
> what they were thinking with the Exporer, but I
> just _____deal with the pain_____, because it's best at
> detecing the deep targets that are still there.

I love my Etrac and the weight of it was also a problem for me,,,,, I fixed it by making it a hip/shoulder mount,,,,, I can swing it ALL WEEK if I wanted to,,, it's easy and no permanant changes or modes to the machine,,,,
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 06:02AM
.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 08:56AM by TerraDigger.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 08:06AM
Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to know how heavy the Etrac feels
> compaired to the V3i which I could swing all day
> the gold pro was heavy...the G2, F75, T2 were very
> light and balanced...

I actually weighed the two on a small scale. The V3i weighs .8 pounds more than the E-Trac (both with stock coils), which means Kellyco has the wrong info on their website. The V3i really bothers my back and the E-trac only a fraction as much (but still bothers it). I feel my back after 1 hour with the V3i and it takes a few more hours with the E-Trac. I hunt with both units' coils just in front of my feet and that really helps. The other thing about the V3i is the larger box - in one way it's nice as you would think it brings the weight back but it seems to affect my elbow as you can't keep it right up against your body and you fight the weight just a bit more since it's back. They both seem relatively well balanced for the weight though.

I wish both companies would take a clue from Fisher /Teknetics and make a light unit. In Europe a lot of guys have moved from the E-Trac to the Deus, just because of weight alone. As much as I am enjoying the E-Trac (6 weeks now), if Fisher comes out with that new CZ and if it's light, I'm going to try it out.

EMS
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 08:11AM
Daniel Tn Wrote:

"Heck if I wanted
> ungodly depth with a beep/dig machine, I would
> take a TDI or GPX pulse machine and dig
> everything. Especially in mineralized ground! No
> VLF could touch that....but you're gonna be Diggin
> a lot."

Daniel would you say that a tdi could get more depth on mid to low conductive coins/relics in good ground than a Explorer/Etrac ,
I know a GPX would but its outside my budget for now.

I enjoy your videos and your realistic opinions on detectors

James
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 05:40PM
James - That is a tough one to answer. I will say....partially. What I mean is, that I'm finding the eTrac to really like mid to high conductive targets and not so much on lower conductive targets. The TDI seems to really excel on low conductive targets. For example, I have a thin brass Civil War eagle cuff button at 9" deep in my test garden. It has been there nearly 7 years now. The TDI will scream out a high tone on it...the eTrac doesnt even null on the threshold with the entire disc screen open over where it is. But yet I have a silver dime at 8-9 inches that it will not only detect, but ID correctly.

The thing about the TDI is that it's the same in good ground as it is in bad ground...the ground never changes its response to targets. If it goes say, 12 inches on a civil war bullet then its going to do it in both good and bad ground...whereas the VLFs may really shine in good ground but as the ground mineralized increases, the IDs become skewed and depth is loss.

I know there are folks using the TDI to coin hunt with that have swapped to mono style coils of various sizes that are reporting digging coins 12-14 inches deep in heavily hunted old parks and such. I'm not exactly sure if the eTrac could do that....at least I've not personally dug a coin that deep with mine although I'm approaching that depth range on minie balls with it....although they appear to be in the tab-zinc cent range anyway.

The major advantage the TDI has is the ability to select which conductive targets you want to hear. This is particularly useful for sites where your encountering particular nuisance items. You can opt to hear low conductors only, high conductors only, or both....all without a performance loss. If you were on a beach and not wanting to dig coins but wanted gold...set it in low conductor and you wont hear anything but low conductors. Or in the US, if coin hunting...select high conductor and you wont hear foil or can slaw, etc....just high conducting targets and unfortunately nails....but you give up being able to hear most all gold jewelry and nickels. Or you can go with hearing both and dig everything.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 06:40PM
Thanks Daniel ,so maybe I would not gain much depth on my real good ground compared to my Explorer,plus all the iron digging problems of a pi ,Whatever company finally brings out a fully discriminating PI is gonna destroy the opposition ,won't hold my breath though!

James
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 07:54PM
As far as Explorers go I feel they have the best guts of any when it comes to finding silver coins but are just too darn heavy for many along with a learning period.


The Etrac is very well balanced and I can actually hunt as long with it as I can the LTD without the weight strain.


Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heck if an F70 works for you an F75 will also and
> is a better unit.
>
> As far as Explorers go I feel they have the best
> guts of any when it comes to finding silver coins
> but are just too darn heavy for many along with a
> learning period.
>
> As an addendum heck I am a CZ guy and they work
> for me but certainly 20 years experience with one
> helps.
>
> This is not something I read in a book as I tried
> them all and believe me if the F series works for
> you stay with it as we are all individuals and
> personal preferences, likes and dislikes all come
> into play and in the end use something you are
> comfortable with that works for you.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 07:56PM
The Etrac is easier to swing than the AT Pro with the stock coil.
Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to know how heavy the Etrac feels
> compaired to the V3i which I could swing all day
> the gold pro was heavy...the G2, F75, T2 were very
> light and balanced...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 07:57PM by markg.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
January 31, 2012 10:50PM
That depends...are you digging coins 12-14 inches with your Explorer? BTW...if the ground is really good, you can put the TDI into pure PI mode and get crazy depth but everything sounds the same without any low/high tone difference...just one single tone but with that, you can open up the depth range to probably 14 inches with stock coil on coins and maybe even 15-16 inches with after market coils.

The closest thing to discrimination you can get right now are the GPX machines. I tell ya this and I swear it's the truth. I took the GPX 5000 that I had and was trying to make it to where it could coin hunt. So I selected the Normal timing (to reduce sensitivity to micro size items) and turned the Gain down to its lowest setting of 1....with that I was still able to EASILY detect a silver dime at 9 inches...at its lowest gain setting. Think about that a minute. With it amped up half way, I was digging minie balls with an 11" coil at depths exceeding 18 inches...no vlf on the planet can touch that with an 11" coil. And just think...they make larger coils for it and it can knock out small iron, and this was just with gain half way. LOL
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
February 01, 2012 12:48AM
Daniel check out this coin depth test from the UK!

[www.youtube.com]
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
February 01, 2012 02:34AM
I could not tell the size of the coil. Looks to be about a 8" coil. Was hoping to see how the E-Trac would 'head-to-head' with the GPX in these dirt mineralization conditions.
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
February 02, 2012 02:56AM
Quote
wurthless
I love my Etrac and the weight of it was also a problem for me,,,,, I fixed it by making it a hip/shoulder mount,,,,, I can swing it ALL WEEK if I wanted to,,, it's easy and no permanant changes or modes to the machine,,,,

Do you have pictures of what you did? I'd love to do this to an Explorer!
jrk
Re: F75 LTD Versus Etrac and Minelab SE
February 02, 2012 08:25PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could not tell the size of the coil. Looks to be
> about a 8" coil. Was hoping to see how the E-Trac
> would 'head-to-head' with the GPX in these dirt
> mineralization conditions.


I would as well. Lot of money to spend, but if discrim works pretty well, huge depth increase, and no performance issues in hot soil, I rather just listen to tone and not deal with an ID screen. Again, if discrim works ok...
Sounds like a winner to me. Where am I wrong in my conclusion?
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