CZ-3d falsing

Took my newly acquired CZ-3D for it's maiden run today. Took it to a site which I have hunted severl times with my CZ-6. I grd bal the unit at about 5 same as the cz-6 and started to hunt. Seemed to be getting a lot of false signals, and then realized that if I bumped my headphone jack or or tapped the coil on the ground I would get a signal. "PANICK". So i turned the sen down to 2-3 and it made know difference, So i then tuned the grd bal down to 2-3 and it stabalized. I hunted that way for a little longer and then had to leave but was confused as to why it was falsing, since I had hunted the same site in the same spot with my 6 without any problems.
Tom or anyone with similar experience can you explain what was happening.
The CZ-3d is a 1121 ser. number with lifetime warranty.

Thanks for the help

I'm glad you thought to run the Gnd Bal at a different setting...... stabilizing the units operation. Were you (then) able to run the Sens back on a setting of 4 or 5??? Or ...... did you have to use lower Sens settings?

I was able to run the sen at4-5

That sounds much better. At least you are able to run the unit at 'almost' the settings you need to run at, , , so as to ascertain 'per design' performance. I'm still a bit concerned as to why the unit is 'chattery' (sounds like electrical interference) when the unit is properly Grnd Bal. -Stability takes priority...... then real dirt ID accuracy.

Hi Tom

I ran my CZ-6 in exactly the same location without any problem from electrical interference.
I took the cz-3 out in my back yard and tried this. Grd bal 10,disc 0, sen 10,
vol 10, enhance. I then tapped the coil on the grnd and turned the grd bal until i had know falsing, which was about 4. the unit now appeared to be stable without reducing the sen. Would this possibly be another way to grd bal the unit.
Is there any advantage to running the sen at 10.

Thanks

There is something wrong about the unit; however, not fatal. On your CZ-3D, when you are rotating your Grnd Bal to ascertain interference-free stability/operation..... this procedure is in disregard of actual ground mineralization. You are not Grnd Bal your unit to dirt mineralization per-se; rather, you are utilizing the Grnd Bal function for a different unintended purpose..... a extenuating circumstance...for your handicap application, , , , so as to ascertain 'usability' performance status. Fortunately, it appears you are indeed acquiring normal, per-design operation & performance characteristics out of your CZ-3D..... albeit having to correct for a handicap. ((( Try swapping your CZ-6a coil onto the CZ-3D....and see if the problem changes,,, or goes away ))).

Running Sens on '10' is nearly never recommended (unless you are in All Metal --autotune-- mode). You will achieve max depth with a Sens setting of approx 4.3 to 4.9,,,,, and acquire better stability vs. running Sens on '10'.

Tom

Before reading your last post i took the 3D out to another site that i know for sure that my 6 would have grd bal to 5, and very carefully manually grd bal it. It bal. at 2-3 and seemed very stable. My concern is if i get into some real hot grd which i have here, or salt water beach, how will i ever get it to balance. I never thought about trying my CZ 6 coil. I will give it ago and let you know.

Thanks for your help

Tom

Just ran out in the rain and did a quick G.B with the coil from my CZ6.
Balanced at 3, so about the same.

I was so pumped about getting this detector for its capabilities. Hope that i am not to badly handicapped.

Okay, that rules out the coil (and associated shielding/shield-paint). It's within the stability of the electronics in the control box. Still......... with all that's said-and-done........... set the CZ-3D for most stable operation..... even in bad dirt, , , and truly see how it performs in bad dirt and/or mild dirt. This is the true indication for performance measurement.

Hi Tom

I took it out to a local river that is very hot with a lot of hot rocks.
It would grd bal. at 2 but was a hair splitting adjustment between + -. I also used the pinpoint
button grding method which was easier to bal. On most hot rocks it gave a low tone,with a few exceptions that gave a high tone. One spot on the river that only had water during high water made the unit false when i tapped it on the grd. I panned out some of the gravel and there was a lot of black sand. I didn't have my cz6 with me but am pretty sure it would have handed this location easily.Not sure if that is a good comparison.I may have to go back with the 6 just to prove it to myself. My confidence is shaken.

Understood. ... And I'm uncertain Fisher could repair this..... as it would perform 'per design' on the BENCH.

Hi Tom

I totally agree with your assessment about fisher's ability to deal with this problem. I certainly do not mean this in a negative way.
I guess my next question is would you be willing to take a look at the unit for me?
I understand you are very busy and have a lot of people who that would like you to look at their detectors. I am not in a rush to get this detector back, i would just like to have the CZ-3D opporating as you had intended. That's why I was so keen on getting one.
I have a perfectly good explorer II sitting here but plan on selling it and making the CZ my main detector.

Thanks for your consideration
Tom

Tom,


If you live in bad dirt territory, I would recommend you keep the ML Exp. --As far as the CZ problem, I have witnessed this exact problem on a few of these machines... but have yet (had the time) to figure out what the cause is. Right now, I have one major project on my plate that is consuming all spare time. I truly wish FTP could jump in, yet I'm aware of their resources.

I understand.

Do you think this problem has an effect on depth or target i.d and if not would it still be a capable machine.
Most of the dirt I hunt would not be as bad as the dirt at the river were i tested it. Most area's G.B at about 5 on my CZ-6.

Appreciate all your help

Tom

I surmise it may hurt ID accuracy in bad dirt a bit..... but not a show-stopper. Only one way to really find out..... and that is to try it several times..... and in several areas, and see just exactly how it performs.

Today I put my 3d control box on my CZ6 shaft which i like better anyway. used the cz6 coil. When I grd bal. both manually and push button it balanced at 3-4, pretty close to 4 and ran dead stable. So I am going to hunt with this set up for a while, as you suggested, and see if anything changes.

I had a thought. Is it possible that the problem is with the grd balance control itself because it is still hair splitting to set manually.

You could answer this yourself with one ops check. Test one exact spot of dirt with the CZ-3D ..... AND THEN the exact same spot with the CZ-6a......,,,,,,,, paying extra attention to the 'window of acceptability' with the Grnd Bal knob on BOTH units. If there is a hair-splitting 'window of acceptability' Grnd Bal set-point on the control knob in which you achieve proper Ground Bal.... ((( in which a very slight rotation of the Grnd Bal knob in either direction... causes the unit to no longer be Ground Bal ))) then..... the problem is..... your in highly mineralized dirt. Not a problem of the unit.

If one CZ goes out of Grnd Bal with the slightest of knob rotation...... but the other CZ is more forgiving, , and you can rotate the knob maybe say; 1 full number (a half-point in either direction) before it goes out of Grnd Bal...... then there is a problem with the 3D. Yes, it may be a internal alignment directly relating to Grnd Bal, , , , , yet, I still think the problem is somewhere else in the electronics.

Tom

Ran that test, and both units had hair splitting results. The 3D balanced at exactly
3 in the enhance mode. The 6A balanced at exactly 5 in the normal mode.I never thought about it before but the 6A has also and always had hair splitting bal. regardless of location.

What State..... and what type of soil is it that you have?

I live in British Columbia Canada. I not sure how to describe the soil. Some area's
seem to have a fairly high clay content. Certainly not what you would describe as sandy. It also tends to have a fair number of rounded rocks through it. The rivers in this area are extremely mineralized. Quit often you'll hear people comment that if you want to check a mental detector for nugget shooting there is no need to send it to Australia, just send them here. Sorry my description is not a little more specific, but I'm struggling to put it into word's.
The other test that i didn't do today but will tomorrow is grd bal the 3D in salt mode and see if it reads a little different

Thanks
Tom.

Hmmmmmm, Sounds like severe mineralization content. Which leads me to recommend a Minelab Explorer..... or a Pulse Induction (PI) unit. HOWEVER; continue to try the CZ. Also, try burying a dime at 5" deep in different areas (different dirt).... and see how the CZ-6a and the CZ-3D will ID the coin. You may want to try slightly differing depths to see what happens specifically to the ID of the dime.

I have an explorer II, and and it is very stable it seems anywhere i take it,but i find it to be much more fatiguing to hunt with. Now i have dug some silver coins with my Cz-6a but nothing real deep, and that also applies to the explorer. I was hoping with the CZ-3D to possibly get a little more depth. I also think it's a confidence factor with the CZ's because they are single tone. I haven't hunted with the explorer enough yet to really know it and be able to take advantage of it's full power. So in my dirt it's sound's like you think I would have a better chance to find coins at depth with the Explorer. What are your recommended settings with the explorer. How do you think the F75 would perform in my dirt? After reading your comp. #1 + #2 I've got the urge to try one.
I will try burying the dime at 5,6,7 and 8 inches and see how the Cz's perform.
I have to get my act together and build a test garden

Thanks for your help
Tom

* CZ's are multi-tone.

* Try a test garden first....... testing the Explorer & CZ's. If your dirt is as bad as it sounds,,,, some 'true colors' will expose...... after a head-to-head comparison. ((( This can be a painful eye-opener ))). Run the Explorer in manual Sens (not semi-auto).... and set the Sens at around 14 to begin with (later to work your way up to around Sens '25'). Select Iron Mask (approx. -11), Audio-1 and tones to your ears likings.

* The F-75 is only slightly better is SOME bad dirt applications compared to CZ. The ML Exp (to date) is the ticket......... unless you choose to go by way of PI.

* A test-garden is more difficult to build than most would think. Primary reason: Sanitizing the soil of all metal objects (including tiny rust flakes) BEFORE burying coins/targets.

HI Tom

I have been running the Explorer at 22-23 sen manual and iron mask at 15-16.
Ferrous. I'll back it off a little.
What I meant when I referred to the Cz as a single tone was that your usually only hearing one or two tones at a time, were with the explorer it like an orchestra.
What's the best way to sanitize the soil for the test garden?

Use a sifter in concert with a magnet..... and also a gold prospecting unit, , , if one is available. Small rust flakes are the worst enemy for building a test-garden....... which creates silent masking..... a severely unwanted condition.