CTX 3030 Shocked Me Today

I finally got to go back to my honey hole for around 4 hours (Probably spent 2 hours on the strip I mentioned below). This is the place I had been waiting to hunt with the CTX as I hunted it methodically and very very hard with the E-Trac. I pulled quite a few deeper coins from there (8" - 9" in my iron mineralized ground is nearing max). Well, I hunted a small strip, maybe 10ft X 40ft that ABSOLUTELY was not giving up any more deep coins. It was easily identifiable as it's a bit raised and contained by a tree at one end and bushes at the other. I had hunted this strip from many many angles. I need to emphasize that I hunted this little spot so many times, again and again, from different angles. Yes, it's possible I missed a target, but today was beyond that.

Well, I pulled 3 coins from 8", one large (quarter sized) silver from 9" that was masked from 2 directions (a first and my deepest silver), a thimble from 8", a pulltab from 9" (my deepest ) and a few others at 6" or so. Also got a small crushed and rolled up mini tube of toothpaste from 11.5" (length of Lesche). It was like I was hunting a new spot. I was really really shocked. I approximately matched my best day as far as deeper coins go but it was from a spot no longer giving any deeper signals - the reason I was so shocked. I wish I had the E-Trac to compare signals against, but I can't discount this - I know that spot well. The CTX did something similar at my local park but I had only hunted that spot with my T2 and Omega, never the E-Trac, so I had been waiting patiently to get back to todays spot. Also, today I only dug one nail (huge one) that barely hit but I was curious - thought it was a nail but had to check.

Just a note, that 9" deep silver coin was mostly a 2 way hit. It pinpointed a foot wide to the left. I didn't film the screen cause it was iffy and there were some people near that I didn't want to bug. But I was wondering if there might be silver in there as it was very clean in two directions and a silver VID. This was the second coin that hit only from 2 ways on the CTX. There was the occasional hit from the other direction and I almost filmed the screen, wish I had. I did film the hole and coin after the fact but I was a bit disappointed that the toughest coin hit I have yet to dig on the CTX was silver at 9" wasn't caught on video. Would have been the ultimate educational video of sorts. Silver is pretty rare in Germany compared to the States. To get it on my first hunt back here after hunting this spot for over 100 hours on the E-Trac and getting 5 silvers is way ahead of schedule! Anyway, watch those high tone two way hits that don't pinpoint small!

I have over 25 or so hours on my CTX and was really wanting to get back to this spot and I waited to post, good or bad, until it happened.

You guys who know me know I like to shoot direct. I don't shy from complaining when I feel it's warranted and likewise I give props when I feel I should. Well, this is one of those times - today was the test, the big one. Today reminded me of when I first got my E-Trac and hunted this spot after having hit it for 20+ hours with another machine. It was like a new place for deeper coins. Well, imagine not getting any more deep signals with the E-Trac in a small strip. With the E-Trac I used the 6X8 SEF, 11" stock and the 13" Detech in this strip. It was finished, no more decent signals. I'm absolutely flabbergasted and am just giving the CTX its due. There is a fair amount of iron there, which is probably the reason for the CTX doing better.

Albert

One of the 8" coins and I did a lot of comparisons via the modes and settings - will give you a decent idea of the CTX (note - I use the user button in the upper right to switch between the 50 Conductive and Combine tone ID profile.
[www.youtube.com]

Good report Albert, nice going with the CTX!

Nice video Albert!

Nice Coin Albert!


I notice the CTX seems to really run smooth...

My Explorer will run alot more noisy than that LOL!!!

Seems with the quiteness I have seen on the video's it ought to be able to really hit some deepies...

A machine that quite with that much power when properly learned ought to really eek out a few ultra deep object's..

I know what the explorer is capable of doing in the dirt at extreme depth...Depth I wont mention...Seems if the CTX is as deep as the Explorer [and it should be] it ought to really nab some items at jaw dropping depth...

Do you think the CTX is as deep as the explorer? I Don't mean Visual I.D. wise but tonal wise ?
Do you think the CTX will unmask like the DEUS? I Don't mean Visual I.D. wise but tonal wise ?

I might have to get one soon...

It just involves having to release detector's for it to happen...I have been testing the water's lately trying to sell some stuff but the resale of machine's is in the tank right now...

Weirdest I have ever seen you cant sell nothing right now unless you give it way and pay shipping LOL!

I will say it again you know nothing about a machine till you run it awhile!
Just expensive sometimes to find out...
But you never know to you try!

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 01:48AM by Keith Southern.

Albert, how big is the silver coin? ie American coin size comparison maybe, And did you did any trash with it? Seems with a pinpoint like you stated, I would suspect coin on edge or iron deflecting the signal.

I realize that detectors respond differently per geographic area. But what is the ultimate goal of your testing? Is it to get the deepest detection depth of your area? I have to admit that I don't like adjusting detectors during a hunt. Sometimes I have to back one down or add power here or there. But over all once I'm finding targets the adjusting stops for me. I enjoy your videos. I guess my question is do you ever shut down the analytical stuff and just hunt? And in some of my area what settings work well doesn't seem to work all that well a block down the street. So my testing basically stops after a few hunts. Once I understand what the setting does I either use it or forget it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 01:47AM by goodmore.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Keith - The CTX is hotter than the E-Trac. What I notice is e.g. - On the E-Trac I could hunt this spot and most spots on 30. I can do that on the CTX but from 28-30 it falses more than the E-Trac. I also notice that auto runs maybe 2 points hotter than on the E-Trac and auto at the same level seems hotter as well, but barely. I find myself running auto +3 (or even +1) on the CTX MUCH more than I ever did on the E-Trac and that is because the CTX will false more at high settings. Mind you, I ran at 30 for a while as I pick out the falses immediatly, not a big deal, just noisy. The VID appears more unstable at a very hot setting - to be expected.

I would love to run the CTX in non iron mineralized ground as I think the depth enhancement might be a bit more. I can see already that it is slightly deeper in my ground. I'll take a guess and say 1" - 1.5" deeper than the E-Trac in my somewhat iron mineralized ground. Maybe in good ground you get 2" more. (Not that I have dug 10" coins but how the 8" - 9" coins hit, I think I'll get another 1.5" out of it.

I never ran an explorer but read enough on it to hear it might be deeper (on the audio side) than the E-Trac. Perhaps the CTX is effectively deeper being that it is just newer and runs smoother. It will find deeper coins closer to iron I would bet. And you won't have to swing as slow. But that shouldn't be a shock, years of newer technology and signal enhancement should do that.

Regarding how does it compare with the Deus. I suspect it will be very close, but perhaps not in poughed land. The videos I saw, showed it outperformed the Deus no matter the land but I find that hard to believe (but it sure costs a lot of money so maybe it is better!) The CTX is not using as fast a recovery speed as the Deus is, that is clear. I would say though that the CTX is doing something special in how it's enhanced FBS2 pulls out coins near iron (in the ground). I will say the recovery speed on the CTX is MUCH FASTER than on the E-Trac. On freshly buried targets I was able to put a nail IN LINE with a coin 2" from it and 8" deep and hit it no problem, with accurate VID. You are more a relic hunter and I get the feeling an accurate VID is less important to you. In my ground and since I am a coin hunter, I love that accurate VID to the depth limits.

I need another 75 hours or so on the CTX but I feel pretty comfy with it right now. The rest is fine tuning so to speak.

Goodmore - I like making educational videos, it's a bit of an extension of me being a teacher. I have 25 hours or so on the CTX and I am playing with the settings on EVERY DEEP SIGNAL and I will continue to do so until I can say I know what settings work best. I am pretty close to being there but I am curious about a coin at the absolute depth limits hitting better in ferrous coin or ground coin (latter for high mineralization). I think ferrous coin in my somewhat iron mineralized ground wins out. I just realized yesterday that recovery fast on does indeed clip the audio on deeper targets, not as bad as the E-Trac though AND the VID is barely affected (was very much affected on the E-Trac).

The danger and I don't want to go there, is to settle on settings too quickly and realize much later on that areas I covered I did so without the optimal settings.

The CTX is simple to run, but you just need to find the targets you are after to find what settings are best. That is mostly what I am doing and also I have a lot of fun playing with the settings right now. I normally don't find so many deep coins so when I have the opportunity to compare settings I will as the CTX's shortcuts make it easy. But you don't have to, not at all. It is as easy as an E-Trac with just a bit more to play with .

Just a message to everyone - As much as I am enjoying the CTX, yes, I do think it is still overpriced. It performs better than the E-Trac but not 2X better. The E-Trac might hit on 80% - 90% of the signals but you got to go slower on the tough ones and probably use the 13" Detech to get the same depth, but the CTX will still probably be a bit beyond that. If you water hunt, then I could see the justification regarding the price. I don't use the GPS function much if at all - I'm not a techy in general, have a simple cell phone - prepay, and did that reluctantly. The CTX's balance is spot on but I feel the weight in my shoulders a bit. The screen could be better regarding contrast. Nothing is perfect but I am enjoying the machine a lot right now. But still looking forward to what Dave J. and company comes up with in that new CZ. I still would prefer a lighter package. If I could get similar performance for have the price I will take it and not look back.

Thanks,
Albert

I owned the Deus and E Trac at the same time. As I got to know the Deus I started to dislike the recovery speed of the E Trac more and more. So when it came time to pick the detector for the hunt of the day I was never picking the E Trac. I had a beautiful detector propped in the corner that I knew I was not going to use anymore. Yes the weight also figured in on that. So I sold the E Trac. I still have no regrets on that. Once you have a detector in your hand with blazing recovery speed you realize that you just added another dimension to your ability to find good targets. I'm glad that the new CTX has a much faster recovery speed. Combine fast recovery with FBS2 and Smartfind2 in a cheaper package and I'll be all over it. I water hunt about 4 to 5 times a year at the jersey shore. I have read many posts on the CTX in salt water. I have come to the conclusion that water hunting should remain basic and simple. I will stick with the tones of the Sovereign and Excalibur. From the reports and posts I read you are not alone on the GPS feature Albert. Many have said they will never use it. Your estimation on depth seems to be on par with the estimation of others as well. Depth is always the factor mentioned on top end detectors. You mentioned the 13" ultimate coil. A very nice coil. But it was too big to use where I hunt. I had it with the E Trac. Masking was a huge problem. Having never used the new CTX I just assume that going to a smaller coil is not nearly as important because of the multiple target ability. So depth with the CTX is not dealt a death blow by the need of the smaller coil. That is something else that the Deus had over the E Trac. People like Gonehunting claim that the E trac got better depth than the Deus. True in a way. But I knew I had to go to a smaller coil with the E trac to hunt where I was going. The 9 inch coil on the Deus does not act like a 9 inch coil. It goes places I always had to use a much smaller coil. And it does it better. So to boil it all down I will say this. If Minelab puts the CTX in a cheaper package I'm all over it. Will they? I doubt it.

Good report. I only wish you had used the 12x10 in that small spot before your CTX. The 12x10 really amazes me in how tightly compressed the width of the DD line is. It feels like I'm using a much smaller coil in that respect. The separation just blows my mind. Some say it not only separates better width wise than the Pro Coil, but that it is deeper and makes deep targets sound much louder. I see you said you used the 8x6 there. In that soil it might have been pushing that coil to find that masked coin that deep. I know some say they've got 10" or so with it and it's a great coil, but it all depends on the soil. From your description of about 9" being (?) about the deepest you've dug silvers in the past, it sounds like your soil is like mine where even minelabs struggle at some sites to punch past about 8 or 9". If that's the case, it might be that the Ultimate is just too big to show gains in depth in that type of soil. The 12x10 rides on and sees a lot less ground matrix in my soil due to it's less "fuzzy" field than round coils, and that's why I feel I see gains in depth with it while say the 15x12 didn't even get the depth on coins as my stock 10" Tornado coil. For that reason, I have suspicions the S-12 or 13" Ultimate might not get deeper than my stock 10" coil, or even the deeper depths of my 12x10 at least. The Ultimate is said to have some unique abilities to see coins in iron not seen on other round coils, but when it comes to separation my money is on the unique field generated by the 12x10.

So far I'm really waiting to hear in field tests of the CTX to a GT, Etrac, or Explorer using a 12x10. In both depth and separation I'm real curious to see how that pans out. I've only seen one in field test of the CTX to an Etrac using the Ultimate coil and they said the CTX seemed to have a bit better depth or at least ID at depth. Again, I wish they would have related how mineralized their soil is, because that could have held the Etrac back with such a big coil. It might be that the 12x10 or say even the 11" Pro Coil or X-12 could have done just as well on depth as the CTX because they weren't too big for that soil.

Anyway, thanks for the field report. It does carry some weight being a small site, but I really hold out for the infield head to head tests of machines on undug targets because we all know we can hunt the same spot for the 100th time and suddenly start popping stuff. Soil condition, EMI, just your attitude on that day, a slighly different sweep angle over the target....All those things can be a factor. That's why I wait anxiously to see the CTX and another Minelab checked from the same angle(s) over the same undug targets.

Goodmore - I REALLY liked the Deus - great sounds, extremely fast and it got depth. My somewhat iron mineralized soil kills the VID accuracy on most machines and the Deus was no different. It worked down to about 7" or so. Very small targets at around 3" game no VID as well (making me think they were deep). I dug quite a few 9"-10" targets with no VID that sounded good and small but only one was a keeper (not a coin). That just isn't fun for me. I love having VID. But a lot of hunters don't care for it and I understand that. I like the CTX but still want a lighter unit. It doesn't hurt when I swing it but today my muscles are a bit tight in my back and it must be from yesterday. I have a sensitive back so I can't fault the CTX fully, but 5 pounds adds up.

The 13" Detech is a really nice coil. But I agree with you Goodmore - it also was a bit to big in spots at this site. It separated great, yes, but when you have 4 targets under your coil it is a headache and I just don't have patience for that. I think to compare the Deus and the E-Trac it would be closer with the 6X8SEF coil, at least it's 1" off the length and not 2" like the stock coil. But you are right, the E-Trac isn't fast, though it still does very well with that coil in iron, just have to go a bit slower.

Critter - Ok, you got my attention since our soils might be similar. Can you explain something - I don't understand, the Omega, T2 and V3i all said I had somewhat iron mineralized soil, but outside of the Omega, they didn't get depth nor VID accuracy. The E-Trac started getting me 9" where as the others peaked out at 7" (But the Omega was solid to there). Hearing the CTX in my soil on a 8" signal just tells me I ain't getting a foot ever! Maybe on a large silver but even then.

This silver coin which was at 8" - 9" was my deepest silver by 2" and even though the signal wasn't really a 4 way, it hit VERY HARD in two directions. It sounded MUCH MUCH BETTER than the coins I dug at 8" or 9" before. So, I do think I will get 10" - 11" on a quarter sized silver coin, but I'm guesstimating.

I did run that 10X12 coil at this location, just not on the strip. I did locate targets to 8" or 9" with it, but I was hearing lots in the ground, too much, just like the 13" Detech. And the weight of the 13" Detech won out. I think you may be right about not getting much more depth with the larger coils due to the ground. But, my ground isn't terrible, just enough to affect coins at that post 7" level. The 6X8 SEF can hit coins at 8" in my ground, no problem. I cross checked quite a few. It was iffy on a 9" small silver ring, so a bigger coin or silver coin it will pick up at 9" imo. I think it picks up less of the mineralization. Damn, I do wish the CTX had that coil.

There is one report I read of a guy with his CTX finding deep coins and checking signals with the E-Trac with the 13" Detech. The E-Trac hit on all of them but the CTX just hit them harder and with a much more accurate VID. No matter, from my experiences with those larger coils, they are just too large for most of my spots. I don't think I will get anything larger for the CTX because of those past experiences (unless I start to hunt more open areas). I might get the 6" coil but I heard the depth isn't great on it and so I want to wait for more reports. Funny thing though, the CTX comes apart quicker than an E-Trac (and I imagine explorer as well) so changing coils, even with the waterproof design, is quicker (The detector is in 2 pieces,not 3 and to unscrew the coil is VERY QUICK - just slide the housing back and unscrew). I might just end up being a one coil guy with the CTX...

Thanks for the comments,
Albert

Nice report on the CTX and nice coin .
One of the forums just posted a 1874 10 pfenning found just south of Boston Mass , go figure.

I found a few E-Trac - CTX comparisons over at Finds. Here are two:

# I actually hunted an old hunted out park this am with my buddy who has an etrac (at least till his CTX gets here lol.) We had very few coin signals but I had a soild nickel 12 12 5" could see several other targets around it. On the etrac it was iffy and jumpy
# settings were almost identical only difference I have the options the CTX offers. It was only a 1959 Jefferson but the point is the etrac was not smooth and the numbers jumpy. That impressed me cause I was looking at an etrac, when this came out cause he
# would smoke my se on old sites. I truly believe the CTX is it's own machine and Iam learning to truly trust what she tells, me cause so far iffy's are trash. mtwolf2270

# I wanted to see if the CTX was worth my wild since getting the new machine. I am very happy with it thusfar! I went out to an old church today that burnt down around 1830 with a friend who is very proficient with his Etrac. We were both running in auto plus 3
# and something told me to ask him what his was running at. He said 18 or 19......cant remember exactly but what I do remember is that mine was running at 28:surprised: That to me is a huge pat on the back for Minelab with the CTX. Now on further note....I
# pounded this site when I had my Etrac and only found a few coins and buttons. Out of the 6 times I've been there and about 8 hours spent each time I found 1 v nickel and a half penny for coins and 4-5 flat buttons. I spent less then an hour today and found 2 # flat buttons and an indian head that my friend said was super iffy if at all something he would dig. I am totally sold on the CTX :thumbup: I'm now curious what you guys have been finding in comparison of these 2 machines? HH Joe

edit - Not a head to head but a friend just PM'd me with this:
Greetings Albert,

The CTX really is more capable than the Etrac. Yesterday I revisited the only confirmed Roman site that I know - an area located near what was a Roman garrison. A few months ago I found two Roman coins there using the Etrac. Yesterday, in the same 20 square feet that I had worked with the Etrac and 15x12 SEF coil, I found six more Roman coins - five of them deep (9 inches) and one next to a chunk of iron. I was in Combined with minimal disc, Deep on, and +3 sensitivity. Occasionally I would check a target in 50 Co.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2012 07:32AM by earthmansurfer.

I got out for 5 hours today and I rehunted the same spot from a different angle as well as immediatly next to it (which was also hunted very hard).
I got 4 coins from 8" and 3 coins from 9" - My best day ever for depth. I was flabergasted as I remember hunting these two spots the last few times and getting nothing with the E-Trac.

The E-Trac hit 8" quite regularly and 9" on occasion.
With the CTX 9" seems to be near the max in my somewhat iron mineralized ground. Maybe another 2" on a quarter sized silver and 1" in general. The BIG DIFFERENCE with the CTX is it's speed and unmasking. I think it will give me 1" - 1.5" more than the E-Trac, maybe 2" on a good day. I have to play with manual GB and the ground settings on a deeper target.

Found something nice from America at 8":
[www.youtube.com]

Here is a Aluminum Bronze Nazi Coin at 9" and I played with a few setttings:
[www.youtube.com]

Albert

I found this post really interesting over at Finds. [www.findmall.com]
Now, I understand EMI and such can be different on different days and affect depth, but none the less, very interesting. The evidence is continually trickling out:

- Had one of the greatest days ever to date. I met-up with a few other MD guys for a hunt at the park, turned on the CTX, and the very first target within seconds was a 1919 Merc.
- Continuing on I was fortunate to find 4 more silver dimes, all between 6-8", and two of the 8" dimes were found in old plugs that I had dug with the E-TRAC. Since the ground is extremely trashy and full of iron, I remember the E-TRAC wouldn't lock on to a
- target, was very iffy, and I quit digging at 6" thinking falsing. Ronfin

Another post with a similar story to mine: [www.findmall.com]

- These are from a USFS housing complex torn down recently, but built in the fifties. I have been over this ground with my Etrac, Tesoro Silver uMax and a Fisher CZ3D. I have found four or five Tootsie toy's,a nice cap gun, a few wheat's, and lots of clad here
- but NEVER any silver. I was always always disappointed in not finding some silver. Well my first hunt over the same ground yielded two silver dimes, two wheat's (not shown) a double edged razor that still works !!!! and the collar badge. I was BLOWN AWAY - !!! One dime had a 1 inch large thick washer above it, the other was in the area covered by roofing nails from prior repairs. The badge was near a fire-ring with lots of trash that I'm sure masked it before. I am very happy with my 3030,, I run with long tones
- and they just blast my ears when on a good target, they really stand out over the blips and burps of trash and ground noise. Deep off, fast off for the most part, I see little difference in the long tone when you have fast on so I use it in heavy trash sometimes,,, - but honestly try to keep it off (fast off) most of the time. This machine rocks,,,,,, thanks for looking,,,,
- (reply) and I have checked several targets with an open sceen and with disc on,,,,,, the 3030 seems to sound off RIGHT THRU THE NULL,,,Grouser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 07:08AM by earthmansurfer.

As I read this, a place we call the buttonfield has been cut short. It's loaded with square nails and flat buttons. We have pulled out some nice early 1800's coins there using ET's, f-75's, SE's and a DFX and it's not producing any more.
I just called my buddy to tell him the field has been cut as he is bringing his 3030 to see if we can squeeze some more non-ferrous from there...I'll be back with a report.

Remember.......... Head-to-Head Comparison............. IF time permits.

Just got back from the buttonfield. Never seen so many dead voles from the cut, they were every 10 feet and the vultures were getting their fill. I found one flat button with the cz and so did my buddy with the 3030, no coins and not much time.

We did compair a few signals, but mostly it was a roam around hunt with not much time ahead of us. With his 3030, he did complain about falsing a bit in the iron. He would dig a mixed signal only to find iron. My opinion is that he is hoping the 3030 to be a magical machine without putting the hours to learn it to its full potential, he IS short on patience.

Comparing the button signals, the first flat button was 1/2" dia, 6" deep and both units (cz3d & 3030) easily sounded off with mid tones. The second flat was 1-1/4" dia and 8" deep, mid tones again and they easily hit them. There was iron around both targets, no less than 6" to 8" away.

One target I got faint whispy high tones 360 degrees w/ the cz. He scanned and said it was iron. I dug it and it was a 2" iron bolt, about 10" deep, kudos to the 3030. That's it.

Sorry for the cheap (and useless) report. Neither of us are the type to do a head to head like Tom or many of you would perform.

Earthman, not trying to hijack, but I was hoping the 3030 would have shocked me at this buttonfield, maybe next time. Like DanPa says, "could be the nut behind the wheel".

Here is another bit of information on a signal hit with both the E-Trac and CTX. It was pm'd to me by someone on another forum as I had shared some tips with him.

Found my first silver today. A Merc. Combined picked it up. (12-40) solid @ 5 inches. Switched to 50 Cond, same VDI. Both 2 way hits.

Just for kicks I took out the Etrac showed 12-46 in Mult Conduct, but it was iffy, bouncing around in the numbers. with high tone.

Theres a lot of iron around my house (nails). I noticed I was getting hits in 50 Conduct (coin numbers snd sound. 12-38-12-43 but when I switched to Combine, I was getting similar numbers but iron tones.....the digs were iron.

edit - This was also in my own back lawn. Its been pounded for 2 years. The 3030 Picked it up in 5 minutes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 05:09PM by earthmansurfer.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Goodmore - I REALLY liked the Deus - great sounds,
> extremely fast and it got depth. My somewhat iron
> mineralized soil kills the VID accuracy on most
> machines and the Deus was no different. It worked
> down to about 7" or so. Very small targets at
> around 3" game no VID as well (making me think
> they were deep). I dug quite a few 9"-10" targets
> with no VID that sounded good and small but only
> one was a keeper (not a coin). That just isn't fun
> for me. I love having VID. But a lot of hunters
> don't care for it and I understand that. I like
> the CTX but still want a lighter unit. It doesn't
> hurt when I swing it but today my muscles are a
> bit tight in my back and it must be from
> yesterday. I have a sensitive back so I can't
> fault the CTX fully, but 5 pounds adds up.
>
> The 13" Detech is a really nice coil. But I agree
> with you Goodmore - it also was a bit to big in
> spots at this site. It separated great, yes, but
> when you have 4 targets under your coil it is a
> headache and I just don't have patience for that.
> I think to compare the Deus and the E-Trac it
> would be closer with the 6X8SEF coil, at least
> it's 1" off the length and not 2" like the stock
> coil. But you are right, the E-Trac isn't fast,
> though it still does very well with that coil in
> iron, just have to go a bit slower.
>
> Critter - Ok, you got my attention since our soils
> might be similar. Can you explain something - I
> don't understand, the Omega, T2 and V3i all said I
> had somewhat iron mineralized soil, but outside of
> the Omega, they didn't get depth nor VID accuracy.
> The E-Trac started getting me 9" where as the
> others peaked out at 7" (But the Omega was solid
> to there). Hearing the CTX in my soil on a 8"
> signal just tells me I ain't getting a foot ever!
> Maybe on a large silver but even then.
>
> This silver coin which was at 8" - 9" was my
> deepest silver by 2" and even though the signal
> wasn't really a 4 way, it hit VERY HARD in two
> directions. It sounded MUCH MUCH BETTER than the
> coins I dug at 8" or 9" before. So, I do think I
> will get 10" - 11" on a quarter sized silver coin,
> but I'm guesstimating.
>
> I did run that 10X12 coil at this location, just
> not on the strip. I did locate targets to 8" or 9"
> with it, but I was hearing lots in the ground, too
> much, just like the 13" Detech. And the weight of
> the 13" Detech won out. I think you may be right
> about not getting much more depth with the larger
> coils due to the ground. But, my ground isn't
> terrible, just enough to affect coins at that post
> 7" level. The 6X8 SEF can hit coins at 8" in my
> ground, no problem. I cross checked quite a few.
> It was iffy on a 9" small silver ring, so a bigger
> coin or silver coin it will pick up at 9" imo. I
> think it picks up less of the mineralization.
> Damn, I do wish the CTX had that coil.
>
> There is one report I read of a guy with his CTX
> finding deep coins and checking signals with the
> E-Trac with the 13" Detech. The E-Trac hit on all
> of them but the CTX just hit them harder and with
> a much more accurate VID. No matter, from my
> experiences with those larger coils, they are just
> too large for most of my spots. I don't think I
> will get anything larger for the CTX because of
> those past experiences (unless I start to hunt
> more open areas). I might get the 6" coil but I
> heard the depth isn't great on it and so I want to
> wait for more reports. Funny thing though, the CTX
> comes apart quicker than an E-Trac (and I imagine
> explorer as well) so changing coils, even with the
> waterproof design, is quicker (The detector is in
> 2 pieces,not 3 and to unscrew the coil is VERY
> QUICK - just slide the housing back and unscrew).
> I might just end up being a one coil guy with the
> CTX...
>
> Thanks for the comments,
> Albert

Iron rich soil, not just mineralization, can cause the same problems as each other. The larger the coil the more "iron" it takes in as a whole, degrading or even nulling a coin at depth. This gets worse the bigger the coil is, and for the same reasons as it does for seeing too much mineral content in the ground signal. As many of us know, a coin at extreme depth on any machine will eventually fade to just being an iron signal or a null due to the microscopic iron in the soil crossing a line where it is now stronger than the weak coin signal mixed in with it. That's why my theory is that some Excal or GT users say they get more depth in PP or All Metal. I think it's not really more depth per say, but rather better ability to sound off at a target at the outer fringes of depth.

I agree with Tom...Head to heads eliminates a lot of variables, but just the same the machines have to both be set up for optimum performance, same low level of discrimination, and also the same sweep angle needs to be used.

I'm really looking forward to seeing a GT, Etrac, or Explorer with a 12x10 go up against the CTX, as the 12x10 is said by many to not only go deeper than the Pro Coil by seperate better left/right wise. I've also found the 12x10 hits coins on edge better than my stock 10" Tornado, so that might even things out in that respect too. As said, there is a fine line when coil size can actually cost you depth or at least target ID stability at depth due to the increased ground signal. I feel the 12x10 rides on and sees less ground than a round DD coil due to it's tighter DD detection line width wise and also it seems to have a far less "fuzzy" field, soaking in less ground stew than a round DD coil. That's not to say it's coverage isn't as good. It will cover a sweep as good as any coil that is 12" in size. It's that the field isn't floating around out there sucking up bits of "fluff" at the edges of the signal and such IMO.

I'm also curious as to the seeming (so far) low depth reports of the 6" CTX coil. Some of what I've read on judging it's depth isn't very impressive, as I can probably beat that with my S-5 5.5" coil on my GT I think. For that reason, it would be interesting to see how a small coil on another Minelab does against the 6" on the CTX in both depth and separation to it. And, I'm curious if a small coil such as perhaps the 8x6 might actually beat the CTX in depth with the CTX using it's stock 11" coil, for the reason of a bigger coil getting less depth in some soils and sand as described above (due to microscopic iron or mineralization).

All these things are interesting to ponder and wait for on head to heads. I feel there is a strong possibility the right coil on any given day for the right situation on another Minelab might outshine the CTX in both depth and separation. For sure there are enough variables to play with there with the huge selection of excellent aftermarket coils for the FBS and BBS machines. Until I see those options played out to the end I won't be making the leap to a CTX. So much less expensive to buy a coil or two than a new machine, so I'll wait to see how all that pans out in various head to head videos and such with numerous coils.

I'm also curious to see any head to heads on the CTX against the GT in one specific aspect as well...That being raw depth. I know some strongly differ but some say the GT is deeper than any FBS machine they've ever owned *in their soil* for one reason or another. I have similar experiences with my GT compared to my Explorers *in my soil*, but that might have been due to the lousy 10" coils they used on the EII.

You've inspired me to spend some time looking up some Youtube stuff on any head to heads of the CTX to other machines. If I find anything of note I'll post a link.

critterhunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
And, I'm curious
> if a small coil such as perhaps the 8x6 might
> actually beat the CTX in depth with the CTX using
> it's stock 11" coil, for the reason of a bigger
> coil getting less depth in some soils and sand as
> described above (due to microscopic iron or
> mineralization).

I can agree pretty much with the rest of your post (and learned some things).

I can answer your question on the 8X6 in my ground vs the stock coil and depth. No - the 8X6 in my somewhat iron mineralized ground will definitely not get the same depth as the stock coil on the E-Trac. And the E-Trac with stock vs the CTX with stock goes to the CTX, at least in my ground (and everyone's ground that I have read on). I have a few videos on deeper targets comparing the E-Tracs stock to 6X8 SEF. The memorable one was a small silver ring at 8" that the 6X8 SEF didn't hit on well enough to investigate imo - see below. But, that said, the depth between the two was close in my ground - say 1" - 2". That is pretty amazing, goes to show you and give another perspective on my ground as well as the quality of that 6X8 SEF. On a different note, I really do wonder how much better the CTX would have been using a different stock coil - a more SEF like design.

Here are some videos of the E-Trac.

8 Inch Coin - Stock Coil Vs. 6X8 SEF [www.youtube.com]

8 Inch Very Small Silver Ring - Stock Coil Vs. 6X8 SEF [www.youtube.com]

critterhunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm also curious as to the seeming (so far) low
> depth reports of the 6" CTX coil. Some of what
> I've read on judging it's depth isn't very
> impressive, as I can probably beat that with my
> S-5 5.5" coil on my GT I think. For that reason,
> it would be interesting to see how a small coil on
> another Minelab does against the 6" on the CTX in
> both depth and separation to it. And, I'm curious
> if a small coil such as perhaps the 8x6 might
> actually beat the CTX in depth with the CTX using
> it's stock 11" coil, for the reason of a bigger
> coil getting less depth in some soils and sand as
> described above (due to microscopic iron or
> mineralization).

Critterhunter, here is a report of the 6" coil on the CTX getting a good 8" of depth. Of note, the depth readings are spot on. I hope to see more depth reports like these.
[www.findmall.com]

Albert

When it's all said and done on the CTX, we will see it's not that the CTX will go deeper, but that it will un-mask targets better, Albert, I believe you will find this true also.
Have you ever read Tom's articles on masking?
They're a must.
I got scolded when I posted how I didn't clean the ground up before making my test garden some 5+ years ago. It's an eye open at different times before and after a good rain. It still amazes me how one machine will do better than another on the same target and direction. Two of my targets are silent until you hit them at just the right angle, then a solid signal comes through.
Still amazing and thought provoking.
I really enjoy your post, keep them coming.

Yeah Mark, I remember Tom stating one must really clean the ground of iron for a test bed. I would like to have two test beds some day, one "more natural" and one cleaned.

I read Toms articles way back when and still have the Fisher Intelligence report of whatever it is called - small printed pamphlet.

I've already noted the CTX is better than the E-Trac with unmasking, but of course a side by side test would be optimal. Some side by side signal comparisons have been reported and the CTX has hit better and ID'd better at depth, but so far I believe the E-Trac still hit on the targets checked (though some wouldn't have been dug said the reports). So, I think the CTX is truly better, but as I've said before, not 1000 bucks better. We'll see as time goes on if that holds true.

Albert

edit - Here is another thread of the 6" coil hitting an 8" deep coin (dime), but in a test garden. [www.findmall.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 08:28PM by earthmansurfer.

A machine can't see what the coil can't see separately, meaning one target at a time with no other in the field with it. The first shallow object the field sees is pretty much all it can see, as the field warps or bends around whatever the first metal object it hits is like a moth to a flame, even if that object is a good bit off to the side of the coil, yet is shallower than whatever is deeper. If it's in the field then game over, you aren't goint to see something deeper. That's why the shallower (or closer to the coil) the trash is, and the deeper relative to that trash the coin is, the further off to the side that coin can be and you'll never know it's there, because detection fields tend to be much broader towards the coil than they are at further depths, so the shallow trash can easily be in the "side vision" of the coil and it's field will never see the deeper coin several inches to the side of it.

Sharper field or smaller coil= more ability to unmask. Period. End of story IMO. It all comes down to the coil. You can't control the shape of the field by cramming electronics into the control box. The coil windings determine the field shape and that's static. Well, by changing the power to the TX winding you can change how big the field is to some small extent, but turning up the sensitivity on most machines isn't changing the strength of the field, but rather increasing the RX gain.

It might be the CTX has a sharper field than the old Pro Coil perhaps IMO, because if you watched my one video the Sovereign as slow as maple syrup on a cold day and yet it can unmask a coin right up against a nail. Even several nails, due to the sharpness of the DD line on the 12x10. I often see people bragging about how fast a machine is when they never mention how sharp the field is. You could have the fastest reseting detector in the world and if it's coil's detection field isn't as sharp as a slow machine using a sharper one then which one do you think is going to unmask coins better? Picture it as one guy waving a flashlight fast at two objects close to each other. His flashlight has a broad beam. Then picture another guy waving a flashlight much slower, but his flashlight has a real tight beam. Which guy do you think can light up one of the objects but not the other at the same time better?

Far as speed goes, I used to be a big fast recovery speed kind of guy. Always thought that was what the meat of separation was about. That's until I compared the 12x10 and GT to a faster machine known for unmasking coins in iron or trash better than other machines. Not a dime's worth of difference between them in response on coins so badly masked by iron that they nulled all the way around them for both of us both one tiny spot where they sang through at a very tight angle. Faster machine with minimal iron rejection being used and an otherwise open screen, versus a slower GT with all that built in iron rejection you can't lower, but yet using a coil with a super sharp DD line.

We've compared many targets over many months. Never a different response on masked targets between them at all. Not one. So what did that teach me? Well, for one, lowering iron rejection is not as important as I once thought to unmask coins. At the very least a sharp detection field can make the end results between the two a wash.

Second, recovery speed on the GT is slowest I ever used, but so long as you control your sweep speed it's a non-issue, and in fact what is critical (IMO) to unmasking coins is not recovery speed (so long as you use proper sweep speed and also proper coil control), and it's not even your level of iron rejection, but it all comes down to the coil.

What the coil can't see separately the machine can not unmask. Only way it can unmask a coin and another target in the hole at the same time is if that other target is iron, because a detection field can tell you the ferrous/non-ferrous properties of a mixed signal (or at least Minelab has figured out how to do that with Iron Mask on the Sovereign and of course the 2D display on the FBS machines).

But beyond seeing ferrous properties, every thing I ever read on detection fields says if two targets are at the same depth/very close/and washed in the field at the same time (only time that is possible), if those two targets are non-ferrous, there is no way to know there are two targets in the field, let alone what their proper IDs are. When that happens the ID of that "single" target of the combined two is usually averaged between them on the conductivity scale.

If you are the type who has to swing fast then by all means a fast machine is a necessity. But, one thing about that IMO. I feel compared to my fast machines, my slower machines hit harder at depth and got more depth. They are not trying to constantly reset over the target and cut it short, so you can really linger over a super deep one and soak and drink in it's signal to try to "bring it up" to a coin ID as you work the coil, but on my faster machines when trying to pull that deep ID out of them they tended to fight me and want to constantly be resetting the ID and threshold as I'm trying to take a good hard look.

All just my opinion on recovery speeds and such. A few years ago I would have told you you were crazy if you told me these things because it's the opposite of what I always believed (concerning levels of iron rejection, recovery speed, etc...in unmasking). I'm not saying none are more important than others, other than saying if the coil can't see the targets separately then no amount of recovery speed or iron rejection is going to matter really. Low iron rejection isn't "seeing" the coin in iron better. It's just reducing the lag time from "rejection mode" to "accepting mode" on the machine. A sharp detection field can more cleanly go from "seeing the iron" to "seeing the coin", so it can compensate for recovery speed or low iron rejection that way.

Critter - Thanks for the explanation but I think you already stated the above (basically) in another post. It is appreciated. I definitely take it in and I am all the more bothered by the chip in the coil of the CTX, for obvious reasons and some not so obvious ones.

But, I just dug up this old post for 2 reasons: 1 - There are so many CTX posts that I didn't want to start a new one and 2 - Both of us were concerned with the depth of the CTX's 6" coil.
So, I just posted the results of some good depth on the 6" coil and adressed it to you since you had the same concerns as me.
But, you never replied to my point! LOL The small coil seems to get very good depth, at least 8" anyway.

I do wonder about the stock coil though, is it redesigned to be sharper? (I mean Minelab and other designers must know about what you are talking about - why no stock 12X10 or SEF like stock coils?) Physically we can compare two opened coils, but I think it might be a miniscule difference. Perhaps some electronic testing of the fields is in order and I have no idea on how to do that outside of just practical comparisons. The CTX does seem to hit hard and ID better at depth, so this either points to a coil redesign, some clever programming/electrons (maybe that chip in the coil?) or a combination of both. I do wonder...

I also wonder if they did something with iron mask and integrated it into the target trace pinpoint as I can't quite wrap my head around how come it sometimes does indeed SEE (but not report audibly), a coin right next to iron. Key word - "sometimes", other times it falses a lot (visually) when running ferrous coin (a setting for iron containing ground - both pieces (says the manual) and mineralization (according to my findings)).

Albert

I havent really been following this thread however I am happy to announce that after 3 months I've finally recieved my 6" coil and hopefully Tom and and I will be able to head down to Ft Meade and put it through the "gauntlet".

Any tips from the CTX hunters who've been hunting in iron infested areas will be appreciated.

Thanks

Aaron

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That wasn't the response I was looking for...

That's a weird one...

Go slow and low with the 6" coil. The 6" coil on the CTX is awesome in the iron beds and nails, even in modern trash. Always circle the target and make sure the tone your chasing doesn't move, if it does it's a nail or wire. it won't take you long to figure it out, just remember it's a tiny coil and going super slow helps.

I've had my CTX for over 2 months now, I should post all my finds for that time.

It's out there fellows! Go get it!
"Ged Peacehavens"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2012 02:44AM by TheGeorgiaCanuck.