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Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach

Posted by wolfau 
Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 01:40PM
Hi everyone,

Just wondering, once a ring drops in the salt water and becomes buried
In the sand would that ring remain in the same spot give or take a couple
Of feet or would it move? I have a friend that lost her ring about 5 years ago
and i am going to find it for her. I am wondering if it moved considerably
from its original spot during the 5 years it was lost.

I have a feeling it would be within a couple of metres where it was dropped but would like your feedback.

Thank you

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 01:42PM by wolfau.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 01:54PM
Gold does not move once dropped, especially once it sinks to hardpan.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 02:21PM
It's worth a try, but 5 years is a long time with a few hurricanes thrown in. If it hasn't moved your biggest obstacle will probably be depth, unless you have hardpan that is not too deep. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 02:37PM
I cant remember if Tom told me this or it was on one of DVDs it he found a class ring lost by a gentleman in the 1920's in the ocean and returned it to him over 80 yrs later, and it was found exactly where the old guy lost it.

How many hurricanes have blown through since then.....?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 04:12PM by Aaron.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 03:18PM
Depends on if any tide movement especially if there has been any big storms and one could probably write a book on it. Some tides I have seen could move a 57 chevy not alone a gold ring so you guess is as good as mine and as one other poster said depth is another problem and of course detectors are limited on depth.

Hunted a freshwater beach that was quite active in the 40's and every silver coin or wheatie was approx. 10 inches deep until it hit the hardpan. No hardpan might measure the depth in feet not inches...

Lots of theories for sure but if you get any signal dig it and good luck in your venture...
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 04:30PM
As long as the ring was not dropped on a hard surface (ie: sheet-rock, gravel etc... )........ that gold ring will not travel. The only movement it will make..... is ....... DOWN. I'm sure the ring is still there........... just excessively deep.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 09, 2012 06:00PM
It depends on the beach, and how storms affects the different parts of a beach. I’d suggest watching some of Surfdigger’s videos on Youtube. His beach hunting videos are very informative. He points out how strong storms move heavy fishing weights and gold jewelry at the beaches where he hunts at.

At the beach where I hunt, light weight gold jewelry, gold jewelry that has a lot of surface area per volume, and thin gold rings with large stones (the large stones lower the overall density of the ring) are moved when the denser sand is moved during stormy weather.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 12:37AM
Now ive got to ask...... if rings dont move why are more than one ring found in low areas? Were they lost together? Ive noticed on some beaches there areas i hunt repeatedly finding rings just because of the way the waves come in and tend to cut the beach. The farther out you go the current maynot move the target just because of weight...... but within waist deep with a natural hardpan these targets seem to move toward the surf and are burried rather than sink. I know the high low tides and where people stand during them play a factor. A recent find of mine for a young lady in a somewhat choppy water ended up 15 ft or so behind here.... im assuming because of the underwater movement and wave action as the ring sank onto the hardpan.

Dew
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 01:58AM
if the sand is firm enough and the waves and current strong enough the ring must move? and why do people find "gold ring holes" ? , gold and sinkers mixed together in a line?
chuck.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 02:27AM
Most answers coming soon!
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 02:28PM
Lots of theories, different winds, tides, sands and your guess is as good as mine.

Several years ago understand studies were done with gold rings tied with string and after several tries the rings on different days just moved at will so certainly no fixed science.

I do know from hunting salt water beaches with tides articles of equal weight seem to run in a line along the tide line.

In addendum rings are where you find them I guess and in certain cases if they fall quickly enough might not be affected and be in the general area where dropped as they might not be influenced by line #1...
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 06:41PM
seeker41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if the sand is firm enough and the waves and
> current strong enough the ring must move? and why
> do people find "gold ring holes" ? , gold and
> sinkers mixed together in a line?
> chuck.


One of the books that I've read on beach hunting points out that very thing. Tidal currents can form coin pockets, a small pocket where many coins can accumulate. It also points out the heavy items can also form pockets, including gold rings.

Surfdigger videos on Youtube points out how some areas can form coin lines. Where targets of similar density can wash up on shore in lines.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 10, 2012 07:09PM
Digs_alot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seeker41 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > if the sand is firm enough and the waves and
> > current strong enough the ring must move? and
> why
> > do people find "gold ring holes" ? , gold and
> > sinkers mixed together in a line?
> > chuck.
>
>
> One of the books that I've read on beach hunting
> points out that very thing. Tidal currents can
> form coin pockets, a small pocket where many coins
> can accumulate. It also points out the heavy items
> can also form pockets, including gold rings.
>
> Surfdigger videos on Youtube points out how some
> areas can form coin lines. Where targets of
> similar density can wash up on shore in lines.

yes but, gold is a different animal, very dense with almost no surface area!!!!! i am told like items are "classified" and grouped together by wave and current action. the question is......how much does a gold ring move and under what conditions.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 11, 2012 01:32AM
my 2 cents on finding gold rings for people, they are never found where they think they lost them, it's seems their memory is always faulty
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 11, 2012 02:59AM
Oncea ring has hit the hard pan or bed rock it will stay there until all of the sand above it is removed. JMO
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 11, 2012 05:50PM
Pure gold has a density of 19.32g/cm^3, silver 10.49, and lead 11.34. But low karat alloyed gold can be nearly half the density of pure gold. I keep information on all of the gold jewelry found to date (over 130). Including karat, inner diameter of rings, mass, density, map location, date, etc.

The density of most 10k finds is mostly between 10 to 12 (excluding jewelry with stones). 14k is 11.5 up to 13.5, 18k is 14 up to around 16. But it depends a lot on what it is alloyed with. Lead is in the 10k to 14k range.

So far, found only a few medium to large, well rounded solid gold bands higher up in the tidal zone of a beach. Most seem to lurk further out. It’s the wide, thin (very small inner diameter to outer diameter), light weight gold bands that seem to “roll” closer in to the lower parts of a beach.

The gold jewelry location map shows where gold jewelry seems to have accumulated over the decades. I think it has something to do with where the ring was lost, and how tidal currents and storms move jewelry into those locations.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 12, 2012 12:21AM
If any targets movement is stopped.... it gets covered up. I find pull tabs and all sorts of targets that are located deeper than their density..... they didnt sink or werent corolated. NOW heavier targets may move or get classified much like different size of rocks do out there.

Dew
two weeks ago a local fella lost one of his 6 rings on wed chest deep zone
August 12, 2012 12:47AM
i knew where and within a tight cirlcle - after about 40 mins. of searching the rip current was bad and the life guards closed that section of the beach - this is a 1 oz. 14k gold ring with a mex. 5 peso coin on top.
the next day a get my buddy tim and we hunt for it and after about 15 mins. my buddy finds it........as far as we know, it did not move any - just settled in the sand. - 28 grams.

5 blocks south last year i find the biggest class ring i have ever seen - 67 grams - i trap down the owner........this area of the beach is one of the best ring zones we hunt, due to the off street parking - and what we call lots of depositors area......two days before we had hurrican irene i think it was......anyway a hurricane - several of us are spinning and here i come and get this nice hit and out it pops - guy lost it in the same general areal in 1998 - how far did it move.......no actual clue, but the hurricane caused something to change and there it was.

f y i

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<".)))))><(
Re: two weeks ago a local fella lost one of his 6 rings on wed chest deep zone
August 12, 2012 12:32PM
I can hardly imagine a ring the size of a half dollar. That guy must have huge hands.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
August 13, 2012 06:34PM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If any targets movement is stopped.... it gets
> covered up. I find pull tabs and all sorts of
> targets that are located deeper than their
> density..... they didnt sink or werent corolated.
> NOW heavier targets may move or get classified
> much like different size of rocks do out there.
>
> Dew


That happens a lot at certain areas at the beach where I hunt. The sand literally piles up, deeply burying shallow, low density trash like pulltabs, fast food condiment packets (mustard, ketchup), crunched up soda cans and foil.

That extra sand has to come from somewhere. Somewhere near that piled up sand is an area lacking a lot of sand overburden. If the sand pileup is caused by alongshore drift, (bedload transport, suspended load transport, or swash load transport), somewhere nearby adjacent to the pileup maybe a very good location to detect. If the excess sand came from a sandbar, then water hunting below the pileup might be a good place to hunt. It all depends on how tidal action, currents, and storms affect different parts of a particular beach.

There is a lot of very good information both on the internet and in books on the dynamics of coastal beaches. Some of the information can be very useful to both beach and surf detectorists.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 11, 2012 02:41PM
i recently came up with a theory that there is a carpet of gold rings laying on the hardpan and or deep marl or clay or shell base. and that is why you start to gain access to these rings when you start finding sinkers and greenie quarters. not because the gold items have been moved and classified along with the sinkers and old greenie quarters. in other words, gold rings move straight down stay where there at and litter the hardpan/modified hardpan(imagine a carpet of gold rings) while other items quarters dimes cents sinkers are moved around above the stationary gold rings. finding a few sinkers or greenie quarters just means you are getting close to that gold ring carpet.

any and all input on my theory is appreciated.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 11, 2012 06:45PM
seeker41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i recently came up with a theory that there is a
> carpet of gold rings laying on the hardpan and or
> deep marl or clay or shell base. and that is why
> you start to gain access to these rings when you
> start finding sinkers and greenie quarters. not
> because the gold items have been moved and
> classified along with the sinkers and old greenie
> quarters. in other words, gold rings move straight
> down stay where there at and litter the
> hardpan/modified hardpan(imagine a carpet of gold
> rings) while other items quarters dimes cents
> sinkers are moved around above the stationary gold
> rings. finding a few sinkers or greenie quarters
> just means you are getting close to that gold ring
> carpet.
>
> any and all input on my theory is appreciated.

Here’s my understanding on the subject. The sources of information came from books and articles that I’ve read on; gold nugget prospecting in streams, tides and beaches, and on personal experience of finding light-weight old gold jewelry that had washed up onto the lower beach area.

1) Some beaches can have sufficient tidal currents to transport denser objects along the bed (bed-load transport).
2) Some storms on some beaches can strip most of the sand off of a beach, and move dense objects along the hardpan.
3) Strong tidal currents can literally liquefy several feet of sand.
4) Heavy high karat gold will have a tendency to move to the lowest point it can. It can be moved by water and gravity.

Say, for example, there is a shallow bowl-shaped hole with a diameter of 10m in the bedrock or false bedrock (clay for example). This bowl is filled with a few feet of sand. If a heavy high karat gold ring were to be lost in the bowl near the rim, it will sink straight down to the hardpan in the bowl near the rim. Tides and currents, along with gravity, will eventually move the ring down the slope toward the lowest point in the bowl. Over time, heavy high density objects will accumulate near/at the base of the “hole”. When storms strip most of the sand overburden out of the hole, that’s when a detectorist can have a field day. But very strong storms can produce tidal currents that can strip all the sand out of the “hole” and even move heavy objects out of these shallow holes, and possibly move them up on the beach.

It all depends on how tides, tidal currents and storms affect a beach or parts of a beach.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 11, 2012 07:20PM
Seeker, Your theory sounds reasonable. I can imagine a beach coast line after a storm and the run off from the surrounding area plus the wave action according to the micro geography of the beach, would cause the sand to be washed out into the sea in shallow to deeper trenches, so to speak. All heavy metals have sank over the years till they have come in contact with a condition of the beach that slows it down or stops it. When you would walk up and down this beach, you would be aware of the uneveness of the terrain... kind of like little swells that go up and down. In the areas that the sand has been removed the most (the lower valleys), you would begin to find these things that were unobtainable before due to the depth of the sand... sinkers, lead weights, old crusty coins (from being there so long) and of course, gold rings. You may not find much of this stuff closer to the edge of the beach at the towel line and back, because fewer would have been lost there out of the water, and water activity rarely had any influnce on them and they sank very slowly, so they may have been found being within detectable depths. ...but the heavy items lost in the water would have been very sucessible to the action of the water over time, and thus sank quiet quickly out of detector range in the sand if the hardpan that would stop their decent was measurable in feet instead of inches. People lose most jewery in the water during activity, not laying on a towel or in a chair on the dry sand.

So now, it's low tide, and several feet of sand is gone in these low valleys, and the heavy items are now within detectable range. If you walked a few more feet down the beach and out of the low area to where the sand had not been washed away, you would begin again to not find any sinkers, lead weights, old crusty coins and gold rings. They're all down there togather is why you will find sinkers and such when you begin to come across a ring or two. There are a ton more of lead weights and old crusty coins lost than rings, and you will start finding them first. They probably moved very little in their life time in the sand except down to where they stopped.

Just imagine, all those gold rings are still down there covered in a LOT of sand. All you need to do is remove the sand and during low tide, they're yours! Since we can't reasonably do that, we have to let nature do it via storms.

It's kind of like panning for gold, you swirl the contents of the pan until everything is liquified and suspended in the water, and then the gold sinks immediately to the bottom of the pan. The hardpan of the beach acts like the pan you are panning with and stops it's decent. You can agitate the contents of a gold pan for about 20 seconds, and all you have to do is scrap off everything but the last 1/2 inch or so, because all the gold has already sank to the bottom of the pan. Why play around trying to get all the dirt off of the top of the gold by swirling it around the pan and over the edge? Sure you have to do that once you get down to the last of the contents in the pan, but not the majority of the contents. You can pan a lot of contents that way quickly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 07:37PM by connortn.
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 12, 2012 11:26AM
Very, very good!

(yes Chuck).
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 12, 2012 01:35PM
Look at how 'raw' gold migrates from the vein of origin downhill to the location of dredge or panning in the stream bed perhaps many miles away. The main difference is the more rounded shape from friction the nugget acquires as it travels vs. a ring’s dynamic that skews the progress to travel more linear downward and slows lateral progress. Also the time factor allows millions of years for the nuggets to move verses decades for jewelry.
Does that advance the theory?

Past(or )Tom
Deus, OBNcalibur, SE Pro, GB Pro, HHPI & a Welsh Corgi named Sadie
Re: Movement of buried rings in sand at ocean beach
September 14, 2012 06:22PM
Had to review some of the books that I’ve read on beach/shallow water hunting, which was another source of information on the subject.

One of the books that I have, “Water Hunting: Secrets of the Pros” by Clive Clynick, recommended reading “Advanced Water Working Techniques” by Andy Sabisch, and “The Beach Hunter’s Guide” by Donald Barthel.

“Advanced Water Working Techniques”, best describes a technique to find “pockets”, or “glory holes”. On pages 46-50, he utilizes a method called “the bobber technique”. He indicates how objects that are hundreds of feet apart can migrate to a common location (pocket), and how the bobber technique can locate such pockets. Such pockets can hold not only fishing weights, but also old coins and old gold jewelry that had migrated to that pocket over time.
At the beach where I hunt, old coins and jewelry appears to move from deeper water towards the extreme low tide zone in certain areas. By periodically checking these areas during the extreme low tide periods, have been able to periodically recover both old coins and old gold jewelry.

“The Beach Hunter’s Guide”, pages 16-17, describes how “cut” forming waves or storms can pull sand, along with targets, down the beach slope. From this, I gather that if enough overburden sand is removed, such waves/storms should also be able to move gold rings down the slope also. Page 21 indicates how storms, (with heavy onshore winds, tide, and surf combination) can uncover (remove overburden sand) and move heavy targets up the shoreline.
Such information has been very useful at the beach where I hunt. If I believed that gold rings just sank to the hardpan and stayed in one spot, much of the gold that I’ve found would still be there. A good example is a rocky area near the main beach that I’ve searched many times. Periodically, old 10k and 14k gold rings, usually less than 3 grams, wash into this area, along with a few broken gold ring faces. Searched the strip thoroughly, and find a gold ring or 2. A few weeks, or months, later, more old gold pops up in the strip.

Although these books are very informative, I still had to learn the beach’s seasonal changes and find some of the hotspots before being able to find gold jewelry on a regular basis. Some beach/shallow water hunting books concentrate on hunting mainly at a single beach, or region with similar tidal attributes. Such a book would be very helpful if the beach where you hunt had similar tidal seasonal changes. Other books might contain information on general hunting techniques on a wide range of beaches.

Getting the right book or information which best describes the beach conditions where you hunt is the trick.

Detecting since Feb, 2010
E-trac with 18"x15" SEF, 13" Ultimate coil, Pro coil, Minelab 8" coil, 4.5"x7" SEF, Sunray target probe
CTX3030 with 17"x13" DD coil, 11" DD coil
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