One change to your favorite machine?

We need:

A multi-frequency machine, light-weight, waterproof, with adjustable freq settings for peak performance on relics, beach, and goldfields, cordless headphones, tone break audio, fully desensitized to EMI, extremely sharp unmasking ability, unmatched depth and sensitivity, superior iron rejection, disc abilities to separate foil/pull-tabs from rings/coin targets, dead-on pinpointing, clean and clear TID, solid and stable without chattering, range of coil sizes with easy-on/off coil attachment, tone/audio control, back-light, comfortable ergonomics, long battery life, and a lifetime warranty.

It should also be under $1,000 and come in a variety of colors and be made in the U.S.A. or one of its territories (including Washington D.C.)

The most expensive of the top-end models would be available for gadget freaks just freaks in general. In this product line the manufacturer would add many additional perks not found on the unit above. Such upgrades as: a color Global Positioning System (GPS) with video conferencing, a heads-up display (HUD) TID visor/helmet with look-down shoot-down capability, a quartz timepiece imbedded in the handle with alarms, moon phases and tides, a specialty glow-in-the-dark paint job done by federal prison inmates that includes an airbrushed portrait of either Hernan Cortez or Ponce de León on each coil cover, an upper-shaft with a built-in Pez dispenser, each rechargeable battery can double as a safety whistle, an integrated AM/FM radio/CD player inside each coil housing, and on cold days heated hand-grips with a switch to provide massaging-vibrating action to cold fingers, custom coil covers made from your choice of either real Corinthian leather or camel hair, adjustable side mirrors with multicolored tassels (to see whose sneaking up behind you), and finally in the pro models only, a quick-release mechanism for the stem that instantly converts the upper shaft and detector housing into a fully-functioning Thompson sub-machine gun (a.k.a., your sneak-up from behind problem-solver). These add-ons would add an additional $5,000 to the cost and twenty-five pounds to the unit's weight - but because of the super ergo-balanced arrangement of all the add-ons this heavier unit would be said to actually feel lighter, almost as light as your wallet. A great many people would buy this improved detector because these many upgrades would obviously make it the best detector ever produced by man, or so the many rave reviews will say.

"heated hand-grips" - I guess you would indeed need more than one hand-grip given the weight of it.
If it was made outside the USA, it wouldn't feature any reference to nickels, dimes, Sacagawea quarters etc etc, and it's depth gauge/gage would be in centimetres so that users worldwide would understand it. It wouldn't include a firearm on the accessory list either....

On the subject of different searchcoils. Coils need to be identifiable (size/type etc) by the detector. This can be done for trivial money - a serial access memory chip could fit in the plug housing. These chips are often fitted inside battery-packs for phones, laptops etc - tiny things, 50 cent items. Then the detector can give a correct depth indicator, it could (optionally) switch in more gain/sensitivity when a smaller coil is used, other parameters could be optimised too (I recall the Minelab RelicHawk had a switch to identify coil size, circuit changes were made accordingly?)

I'd like to see this in all new machines, have phones and clocks , you can control it thru the pad

Another thing I often wish the F75 had was a 'tame' mode. Less fidgety and easier to use, sacrificing some sensitivity/speed etc in the interests of a more relaxing detecting session. This should be achievable, as all this aspect of the machine is determined by 'software'. Either activate this mode at power-on (eg. hold in the pinpoint trigger at turn-on) or possibly replace the largely redundant PF mode with 'EZ' mode.

EZ mode, ha ha ha, that's funny Pimento.
Tha AT Pro has an easy mode.

Glad you like 'EZ', I thought it up just for the US guys. We don't use that expression in the U.K - it would be prononced ee-zedd here. Trouble is, the F75's '88' display would turn EZ into E2, ruining it. True about the AT-pro, I imagine the lower reactivity modes on the XP Deus would also be similar.

'Tame Mode' is the F75LTD run in CL mode at sensitivity=10. Add variable pitch and it mimics a Minelab with faster recovery. Near maximum depth too with modulated audio.

Concerning the Bandido II Umax with VDI and tone alerts and the ability to switch to a freq lower than 8khz for my soil...On second thought, I've been eyeing the T2SE or F75LTD for some time now, but I just don't want to risk it due to the higher freq in my soil. Now, if they could make those in a low freq, or with the ability to switch to that lower freq when you want...There might be a lot of potential there. Especially if it was say around 3khz or so. Talk about the potential to be a dream machine...

Speaking of 3khz, I see the blatant gap in the Xterra line up of coils has been addressed. Far as I know they never made a 3khz coil about the smaller Minelab one to push depths on silver/copper coins deeper? At least last time I checked they only had that Minelab 8" coil or so in 3khz. Anyway, I see now that Coiltek has come out with a large coil that you can get in any of the coil freqs selections you want. 3khz in that big coil might do some serious damage on deep silver/copper in even bad mineralization. Anxious to hear how that pans out for people...

Here's that new 15" Coiltek Xterra coil that is available in all the freq ranges...

[coiltekmanufacturing.com.au]

Curious though, that they say the 3khz model is for "low mineralization"? That seems counter-intuitive to what I've always experienced with low freq detectors, where it's the higher frequencies that seem to have issues with at least my mineralization. Perhaps it's that this coil, being 15" in size, is sucking in too much ground matrix for the Xterras to handle well?

I've always read/experienced that about the rule of thumb for max coil size in a DD to still retain sensitivitity (and thus increased depth) on coin/ring sized targets was about 14" in coil size. Of course that all depends on the levels of mineralization too, where as say 12" in a DD size might be all you can go to to still see depth gains on deep targets, because anything larger begins to lose/degrade the target signal to the ground stew the coil is soaking in.

I found this to be true in my soil for the 15x12. Although it ran stable at high sensitivity levels, it seemed to get less depth than my stock 10" coil on coin/ring sized targets. In fact, I found that running sensitivity about 1/3rd lower than max stable often gave a better ID on a target at depth (due to running the coil too hot sucking up too much ground signal I guess), but still didn't show me gains in depth or even as good of depth as the stock 10" coil.

Thus far the 13" Ultimate appears to perhaps be as deep as the 12x10 in the ground, though I'm not sure yet which does what on that in my head to heads on marked targets. I need to find fringe depth targets because that is where any difference (if there is any) will show it's self between it and my 12x10. I have my suspicions though that the unique/tight/less fuzzy field generated by the 12x10 might be the reason why it gets deeper in my soil over my stock 10" coil.

It might be even a 12" round coil would not get the depth of the 12x10. The Ultimate though doesn't appear to be a "conventional" round DD coil, so I have high hopes for it. When my loaner goes back to the owner I'm getting one of my own to sit along side my 12x10, because the bit easier coverage of the Ultimate makes it a fun coil to use, and although it weighs the same as the 12x10 on the BBS units (which is lighter than the FBS versions of the SEFs), the Ultimate just "feels" lighter on the shaft, probably due to it's round shape and more evenly distributed balance on the shaft I would guess.

Either way, as to the new Coiltek coil...I'm eager to here how that 3khz puppy pans out for people. If it does wonders in mineralized soil on silver/copper I may have to add an Xterra to my line up, as I had been waiting for a larger 3khz coil for those machines.

PS- I see that Minelab has new VFLEX protocals for their coil/detector communications, which they state will cause some unauthorized aftermarket coils to no longer work on newer Xterra models. Nothing like squashing the aftermarket so people are forced to pay a higher price for "authorized" coils. I feel that's like the old Betamax/VHS thing. The harder you try to squeeze and control things in your hand the more it slips from your grasp in terms of what is better for you in the long run...

Hey Critter the 3kHz also come ina 6" DD NOW!!

talk about a silver picker in trash...Thats going to be a good coil I bet!!

The 3kHz has a unique audio on foil and iron ...Theta freq really dont like foil and the small stuff..

Now We know why the lates Xterra's wiht holgram images on the control box wont run the Nel coils...The must of epdated the chips and gave them to coiltek to come to an agereement...

Coiltek builds some great coils....

If memory serves me correctly they are the ones who build the original and in my opinion the best sovereign coil for minelab....

They contracted the stock 8 inch white dd round to be built by them....And also the 11 Inch super....

Keith

Yes, I don't care for coil encoding chips trying to lock out the aftermarket myself. Makes for poor coil selection and steep prices IMO. Like trying to force you to only buy original manufacturer parts for your car. I see Coiltek is authorized though by Minelab so no worries of the coils not working with newer Xterras. I see they also sell a 3khz trash coil for it like 5 or 6" or something. A little coil like that might also be deadly in very mineralized ground for silver/copper coins, where even 3khz but on a larger coil is drowning out the target due to ground matrix issues.

I finally did some snooping on the NEL coils that have been out for a while and see they've got a 3khz 12x13 for the Xterra models, as well as I think a 3khz trash coil for it. But sounds like the newer productions of the Xterra detectors have made it so the NEL coils will not work with them. I suspect the very reason Minelab updated the encoding was to lock NEL out of sales on future Xterras produced perhaps?

The 3khz 15" Coiltek coil...I'm thinking it may be beyond the point of no return in terms of size of a DD coil to see gains in depth on coin/ring sized targets. Way I always heard it/experienced myself is that about 14" was max size roughly, and even then you are at risk at losing depth on coin/ring sized stuff, although I did see a WOT on a Sovereign in a video get a shot gun shell at (I forget) either 14 or 16 or 18" on video. Very impressive. Regardless, 15" is for sure pushing it to see gains I would think. And then there is mineralization that will even limit DDs down in size to see gains in depth due to target matrix issues with the minerals at depth. Seen that with my 15x12. Just too big for my soil.

I'd like to see a 12" DD 3khz coil for the Xterras, although I guess the NEL 12x13 is pretty darn close, so it might not cost me depth and instead gains me depth in my soil. Not talking about bigger targets than coins here. Of course a larger coil will show gains on that stuff. The official field tests of the 15x12 showed it got more depth than the 12x10 on a target I think about half dollar or bigger in size, but not on smaller coins and even lost some depth compared to the 12x10 on them.

Good point about lower frequencies tending to give a more distinct "trash" breakup on foil and other bits of junk. I've owned high freq machines known for their sensitivity to thin gold chains and such. Didn't care for them land hunting. Made for a bumpy ride, chatter, and had me chasing tiny junk that gave me a solid hit. I prefer the small bits of foil and such to either be ignored or made to sound like junk when land hunting. Only place I'd really care for that kind of sensitivity is at the beach for thin chains or earrings, but most of the time I just want max depth on gold rings, and even on the thinnest of those a Minelab will bang hard at depth due to the nature of a ring being an intact metal loop.

Here's a question for you...What machines are there out there these days in production below 8khz for potential depth on silver/copper and penetrating minerals better. Of course the Xterras with the proper coils, I think a few of the Technetics units, and what else? I'd like to see a few of those put into a T2SE package with the boost mode and all that. Better stability/depth in my soil, and probably less prone to EMI.

E-Trac is my favorite machine, but I would like to have the Whites V3/V3i running 2.5-7.5-15.5 frequencies instead of the 22.5. An 11 inch DD coil for it would finish of the wish list.

Quote:" 'Tame Mode' is the F75 LTD run in CL mode at sensitivity=10"
I've just downloaded the manual for the LTD, and it seems the CL mode is a slow-sweep mode? So it's not what I was after, I would want normal F75 behaviour, just less chattery. If this mode was selected at power-on, then Tame DE, Tame JE (and the other 2 ) would be available. Tame JE might be rather a contradiction in terms, but at least the disc settings wouldn't have the 'sensitivity hole'.

Hey Jack, nice to see you around. Having run the V3i, I can agree with your frequency choice, at least at a theoretical level. I still wonder why in 3 frequency I couldn't get much depth and my mineralization isn't as bad as yours. (It did hit better (but not as good as the E-Trac) on silver at depth, just not so well on e.g. zinc and bronze coins). Outside of the energy being put across 3 frequencies, and not 1 or 2, that 22.5kHz frequency might be the one responsible in my somewhat mineralized ground. I wonder if the freq. range was dropped if the depth "issue" would be resolved. Or, perhaps it would take running in two frequencies, like Fisher CZ's, BBS and FBS detectors do.

Critter, regardind NEL coils working on the newer X-Terra machines - I contacted "detectordistribution" on ebay.co.uk around a month ago and asked them this question. They said the stock coils also work on the newer machines.
I dislike the coil in the chip way of locking out competitors. It really is just a business arrangement and gives the consumer very minimal protection. I mean if coils are bad performers, word gets out there quick with the internet. I don't think manufacturers (e.g. Nel) would risk a successful business by putting out crap. I haven't heard any bad stories regarding the NEL coils. They may be out there, as with any coil, but it is below the horizon apparently.

Albert

I agree that if manufacturers use an ID chip in their coils, they should make it public domain knowledge what the parameters are. Also, if no chip is fitted, the machine will still work, using default parameters, eg. using the stock coil response.

Many times when I put my T2 down to dig a hole I inadvertently switch it from disc to allmetal. Why is it so easy to do this? Didn't it happen during trials? I'd change that :-)

Quote
Pimento
I've just downloaded the manual for the LTD, and it seems the CL mode is a slow-sweep mode? So it's not what I was after, I would want normal F75 behaviour, just less chattery.

The "CL" slow sweep mode is not as slow as you think. The audio is quiet, stable and very descriptive. The only downside is a jumpy VDI. The mode is very deep and EMI resistant as the software is doing all the work.

Someone perform this test: hold an F75LTD vertically upside down in a low sensitivity CL mode. Swing a target past the coil. Tell me how fast you can swing that target and still get an accurate audio.

I run in this mode more than half the time I hunt. In fact, I never use any of the original F75 modes anymore (DE, JE, PF...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2012 10:24AM by go-rebels.

Garrett Pro Pointer with two tone ID, Ferrous/Nonferrous.

Go-rebels: thanks for the info, I think I'm going to stick with my standard F75 for now, but in the future I may change.
Badger: I did wonder if the ProPointer woud come up on this thread. Now it has, I may as well link to a couple of threads that discuss it in more detail:
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Badger wrote:
"Garrett Pro Pointer with two tone ID, Ferrous/Nonferrous."

YOUR PROPOINTER IS YOUR FAVORITE MACHINE??

You must not cover to much ground let alone depth!

A backlight on my T2. Why don't they have any light?

Of course a lighter and more ergonomic CZ and Explorer series....guess that's we all have more than one....

A lighter? Do you smoke Dan? .........................just jokin.

ATPRO needs a swivel mount for the electronics unit so as to orient the display towards the user. It would be much easier to see the pinpoint cursor along with the rest of the display for those of us with older eyes!

rlc1940 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATPRO needs a swivel mount for the electronics
> unit so as to orient the display towards the user.
> It would be much easier to see the pinpoint cursor
> along with the rest of the display for those of us
> with older eyes!

That is a good idea and gives me some thoughts on a Mod.

One thing I have always thought would be nice if the ATPRO had a 4th tone, higher than the middle tone but lower than the high tone. With a settable breakpoint between the new tone and the present mid-tone which can be set anywhere between 40 and 75. Just like the present middle tone now has with iron.

This would provide much more audio information as to what is under the coil without having to look at the meter.

Jerry

Sounds like a very good tone addition. I think we'd all be able to use it!

Hi, this thing is about a year old but I'm going to bite....


PittsburghWill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A backlight on my T2. Why don't they have any
> light?


I'm guessing they did not pay their light bill....LoL....JJ

Whites 6000/XL-PRO,Manuel ground balance.The E-trac and Nautilus IIba,lighter in weight and better balance. The CZ-3D,Not a thing!

Troy X-5 with 2 Tones Ferrous/Non-Ferrous