White Gold Rings

Ive be watching Gary Draydons posts and finds for the month...... 43 Gold pieces so far. I noticed something about his finds and went back and checked mine for the last couple of months. He had 1 piece of white gold and i only had 2. Is white gold difficult to find, do people wear less white gold, do people loose less white gold. We obviously arent talking chains here..... these rings are .... what an average of 2 to 6 grams? So why so few being found? If its the detector sensitivity...... which machine might do a better job on them IN the salt water?

Dew

I have found one white gold ring 14k 6.4grams and it read on a g2 at 59 which is a pull tab signal,easily overlooked, I have a yellow gold 14k (8.4grams ) that reads 69 on the G2, I also have 2 10k rings that read 52.
You have to dig just about every constant repeatable signal. On the G2 I would get a triple sound ring passing through out the whole coil. hope this helps.

Greg.... ive got over 50 gold rings this year and maybe 3 white golds rings. I dig or investigate everything but a shallow bottle cap out there and hunt in PP on an Xcal. So i cant say im getting it all... no one does, but i was looking at the odd percentage and wondering the cause.... machine or the white gold.

Dew

Simply put......... white gold has less detection depth (size-for-size).......... especially the smaller pieces.
This has been a big education for me..... since hunting with the Aquastar. I find a lot of white gold........... to the point of being a very disproportionate ratio............ and all along, I am computing/calculating the 'why' factor. Recently, I have been giving a fair amount of one-on-one training on just exactly this........... to include theory and demonstrations. Also....... white gold has a better percentage of valuable stones...... vs ..... yellow gold.

From a personal standpoint my wifes engagement ring and wedding band are white thin gold and come in at about an 8 on an XLT which is low foil reading.

White gold comes in really low and feel many more yellow gold rings lost as white gold seems to be old fashioned and many more yellow gold rings sold.

These may be two reasons to answer your questions...

Tom.... isnt the Aquastar a PI made here in Fl.? If its a PI.... what makes it stand out over say a Deep Field PI? Hummm is white gold mixed with nickel.... where as yellow gold is mixed with copper? Dan... you may well be right. White gold seems to come in and go out of fashion. Seems those with stones and prongs are even harder to locate. They are a little more common for women.... more so than men and often are small. Thanks guys.

Dew

AquaStar is a PI...... but is no longer made (in Europe/England).
....... Yes..... the primary alloy of white gold is nickel.......... and the primary alloy with yellow gold is copper.
Pulse Delay is a primary 'key' to the success of the AquaStar ................ vs ............. all other PI's.

So.... we are talking sensitivity vs depth sort of. Even in yellow gold they normally use white gold to hold in stones. So i have a 10 coil Xcal...... best investment.... a PI with good pluse delay or an 8 inch coil. Both will be a little slower coverage wise. In a trashy area i know a small can be the ticket but on a beach that isnt trashy...... is it a time waster or even that much more sensitive to smaller white gold?

Dew

I don't believe there are any PI detectors on the market that are sub-10uS.

dew, you are thinking of the aquasound a high power vlf/tr detector.

a few of us have been trying to figure out on various forums if a pi or which pi would help us deal with the heavily sanded in conditions of this past summer. i propose some of us get together and test the following machines all with 8,10 inch stock coils........
1. excal
2. cz20
3. cz6a
4. tesoro sandshark
5. whites tdi
6. minelab ctx 3030
7. toms aquastar
8. aquasound
9. garrett infinium
10. ?????

i could add some dry sand only machines that will blow most of the above machines away on tiny/microgold but lets just deal with wetsand machines. we will bury specific targets at accurate depths and do some sens,depth,swingspeed tests. i will host this event over here on the beach across the street from my house with only a few people invited. if you are interested and tom is willing to bring his aquastar we can get this together , learn , have some brats and some fun.
chuck.

So..... if a pi isnt 10 uS its not any better than an Xcal? Or did i just get confused? Isnt the DF 15 uS? Chuck im thinking VLF or PI more sensitive than an Xcal to those chains or smaller gold and white gold..... im not to concerned what it is as long as you can get it wet. I dont think in Fl the depth between a PI VLF is that great. especially when you know sand is moving in in feet not inches.... so im trying to find a machine i can use in and around the water sensitive to those hard to get targets. It would be interesting to see some respected machines tested.

Dew

seeker41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dew, you are thinking of the aquasound a high
> power vlf/tr detector.
>
> a few of us have been trying to figure out on
> various forums if a pi or which pi would help us
> deal with the heavily sanded in conditions of this
> past summer. i propose some of us get together and
> test the following machines all with 8,10 inch
> stock coils........
> 1. excal
> 2. cz20
> 3. cz6a
> 4. tesoro sandshark
> 5. whites tdi
> 6. minelab ctx 3030
> 7. toms aquastar
> 8. aquasound
> 9. garrett infinium
> 10. ?????
>
> i could add some dry sand only machines that will
> blow most of the above machines away on
> tiny/microgold but lets just deal with wetsand
> machines. we will bury specific targets at
> accurate depths and do some sens,depth,swingspeed
> tests. i will host this event over here on the
> beach across the street from my house with only a
> few people invited. if you are interested and tom
> is willing to bring his aquastar we can get this
> together , learn , have some brats and some fun.
> chuck.


Seeker, if your test day does happen, you have got to video it, Just the thought of it has me thinking since I have three of the listed water detectors that I'll do some testing of my own out back just to see how mine hit on white gold and depth.... I'll have to try some chains too. (which I'm confident none will see without something attached)

Cliff

Tom's Aquastar is in a class all by by itself, none of those other machines can even touch it, especially when he's getting gold earring backs @ 6"!

Dew, you bring up a VERY valid point. I have been searching for this answer for several years....... and have come to the conclusion that there are a few variables (that make this answer somewhat difficult); yet, a somewhat reasonable averaging answer ensues. In my somewhat rough conclusion.............. a PI needs to be around 12-uS or lower........... in order to quantify/justify it's usage for wet salt jewelry/gold hunting. Otherwise a VLF presents more efficiency due to its ID capabilities (ferrous vs non-ferrous).

Now..................... for me......................... I need 10uS (or lower) to quantify/qualify/justify the use of a (all metal) PI. If I'm going to dig fairly large volumes of iron (due to a all-metal PI)..............it better be worth it............... as the PI better be (at minimum) 40% more sensitive on small gold ... over any VLF unit on the market. I need to find at least 40% more gold with the PI (that has me more digging iron) ....... so as to make it worth my time. It is a "ratio's" game of time-vs-gold-vs-efficiency. If you are digging a LOT more iron.................. and ............................... once in a blue moon........................... dig a extra piece of gold that you would have (otherwise) missed with a VLF..................... this would NOT be worth the time/labor/effort. Life is too short.

So what can a poor average beach hunter get his hands on in a PI with those specs?

...and why can't someone make a high performance (10-uSec) production unit today???

When yesteryear's technology trumps today's availabilities! Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Right now......... there is no 10uS (or lower) PI available on the market. Continue letting this forum be your 'dream-sheet' request outlet. It works. (((Look at the past 4-1/2 years))).

Thanks Tom.... im thinking along the same lines so its good to know im in the right mind set when considering my options. I understand Richard Rudy still makes the AquaSound..... hefty price tag $2500. Ive been told its a great machine with its weak point being black sand..... but is excellent to id iron. So you are liking it for gold hunting?

Dew

dew, aquasound is a high power tr machine not pi!************ aquapulse is a pi used by alot of treasure salvors/divers but is not good on gold.********** tom has a aquastar II made by eric foster. the aquastar II is no longer made and pretty much imposible to find.

i have seen toms aquastar in action a couple times and he even asked me once at the beach to check a few of his small gold finds with my cz6a. his aquastar was getting very low on battery strength. long story short, his machine would pick up these items at about 4 inches mine(cz6a 10.5 inch coil) would not even see them!!!!! ................really heartbreaking and discouraging!

you just have to realize that of all the machines available, if you are using a cz or a excal(i have both) you are using the best available machines in production!!! try and tweak them a little, go with a sef coil or wot...thats about all you can do.

now......the aquasound might be worth looking into if you can afford it but it needs clean sand to acheave depth , or so ive heard.

tom, a couple questions....
1. have you ever used a aquasound????

2. on most machines, how much more sensitive to white gold is a 8 inch coil vs a 10 inch coil????

Isn't the Aquasound a old (based on the 1266-X.... or 1260...... or DMC) single freq VLF unit???? I also seem to remember/think the Head Hunter VLF...... was a souped up 1266 built into the headphones. And............. once again............. single freq units just simply do not handle wet salt well at all. Just because a unit (or Mfr) claims "will work in wet salt" ..... does NOT constitute it was specifically designed for wet salt NOR will it work 'well' in wet salt.

I have yet to see a 8" coil express/present a measurable differential to small gold targets (white gold .. or otherwise) ...... as compared to the 10" or 10.5" stock coil. Now.............. that being said................. and I know folks reject/resent this next statement.............. but.............. will say it again: the SEF or.... especially the WOT coil (14" or 15") is a loss in depth/sensitivity/performance to small gold items in wet salt. This is a most undesirable effect..... the reciprocal of what is originally intended to achieve. Now.................. this is probably a question (on the lines of what/how Dew thinks) is............. okay................... MUCH more ground is covered with a 15" WOT coil. Depth is lost on important items; yet, more coverage is ascertained. What and Where is the break-even/turning-point to quantify/justify more area efficiency .. vs .. less depth.

I have learned (with approx 40.5 years of detecting) that............. in general.............. the smaller the gold item found.......... the greater the percentage of higher value precious 'stones' embedded. Seems like tennis bracelets, earrings, pendents etc........... will give more 'valuable' diamonds than found in rings....... including in the aggregate averaging number: engagement rings. For our entire detecting history........... everybody (whether they realize it or not).... is a gold "ring" hunter. We have been measuring detectors performance for gold 'rings'. Rings, rings, rings, rings. And why would folks think anything different when/whereby the bulk of the gold recovered in beach hunting scenarios.... is rings, rings, rings. Because "rings" are about the only gold target that most metal detectors can detect.......... why/how would anyone think there is anything 'different' to find/detect on the beach. What a geophysical metamorphosis epiphany it would be if something 'different' would/could be detected on the salt beaches. Say........ earrings and necklaces. The "new" detecting mindset // 'thought-process' would turn the world up-side-down. How do you know what you are missing.......... if you do not know it even exists. A genius design engineer is aware of the 'unknown' world..... and can create devices to identify/capture and present things that are not known to exist. But they do indeed exist; although.... have yet to be discovered. When Gerhard Fisher invented the first metal detector............ it opened a world that was not known to exist. This is what inventors do.

((( These a few of the things that I teach in my one-on-one training lessons ))).

1) I have not tested/detected with a Aquasound.
2) Answered above.

That really puts you to thought Tom. Rings rings rings are what we judge our success on..... with a rare chain or earring find. About like anything else.... give us whats easy to do and we accept what we are given as the only choice. Cant tell you the number of chains i see worn on the beach..... and earrings seems most women wear them.... and they come in pairs by the way ... and now even men wear one. People use the WOT and larger coils looking for the deeper LARGER rings. Even the scoops designs have larger holes to allow smaller targets to drop thru..... if it goes thru twice they keep moving. I know several hunters may not realize the why.... but do know they are looking for deeper rings.... and coverage. It appears..... based on current tech if all we are is ring hunters they have the right idea? You arent wrong about my thought process..... thats also why i chose a disc machine over a PI as my initial machine out there. That really puts it all in true perspective Tom. BUT.... thats exactly why im looking for a machine or coil (which may not exsist for salt water hunting) that is even a tad better than what a good many use ... the Xcal or cZ. Skill and coverage will only take you so far if everyone is using the same equipment. Apparently it does little good to DIG IT ALL with a PI or cover more ground..... because basicly you are doing the same thing.... playing the averages to see which will pay off. Because neither even in AM is going to hit the targets we are just walking over if it cant. IF such a machine existed..... what would be the trash to treasure average... would it be even worse than using a ML gold machine in the towel line?

Ill have to check into the AquaSound being a single freq.... especially since i know several use it in the water and claim great depth except in black sand. At that price.... for a single freq id pass.

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2012 12:08PM by dewcon4414.

So far............... to the best of my skillset/experience:

In all metal mode.............. a VLF detector will (in the wet sand) detect a certain number of non-ferrous targets and a certain number of ferrous targets. (((( I measure this with a 'ratio' )))).

This PI AquaStar-II will detect all of those targets (both ferrous & non-ferrous)...... plus additional smaller Fe & non-Fe targets. It appears the "ratio" is the same; yet, the volume of targets to select from...is greater.

((( Food-for-thought = What if a good VLF finds 1% of the targets in the wet salt............ and a superior PI finds 3% of the targets in the wet salt ))).

By your comments.... there isnt a superior PI out there YET. Or are you saying a PI with say 15 uS like a DF is that much superior in the wet sand over a VLF im AM? Wouldnt i not only increase what im finding by your 3%, but also because of the increased depth over a VLF almost double the amount to sift thru? Thanks for all the really good information and thought.

just to add on the 1% vs the 3% of a PI..... how does the ratio change thou if i have the ability to check those targets with my disc on a VLF?

Dew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2012 02:59PM by dewcon4414.

ok, myself, dew, and a few others have been talking about this all summer!!!!! we are looking for a little extra edge in the sanded in super fast gold ring sink rates that we have been dealing with. lets try and get specific. for now/at present, regarding the aquastar we have no machine to match its capabilities so lets talk about gold that the cz or excal are capable of seeing.
.....
1. do any of the pi machines on the market offer an advantage in depth or sensitivity on yellow and white gold rings that are detectable(no micro gold or tiny gold)
a. in the wet sand
b. in the surf
c. in waist deep saltwater
d. in chest deep saltwater
e. in loose uneven unsupportive sand sand (waist deep salt water or wet)
f. in hard packed supportive sand (waist deep saltwater or wet)

2. i have heard that an excal looses alot of its depth capabilities in a loose or uneven sand matrix. for example a waist deep hole wth loose hilly sand on top of a harder base?
a. is this also true wth a cz, or a pi?
b. forgetting about micro and tiny gold , when and where and by how much will a good pi give the beach hunter or saltwater hunter an advantage over the excal or cz? and by how much.

thanks, chuck.

.

I have to believe the DF with a uS of 15 is an advantage over the Xcal on sensitivity and depth.... even here in Fl. My Xcal dont seem to like loose sand anymore than my Exp does on land. In fact if you take a huge first bit with your scoop..... you can even loose the target in the hole. My hunting buddy just found that out thinking his machine had a problem. Its still a percentage game..... are you willing to stay in one spot and dig 50 targets to one good ..... or move and have the ability to cover more beach hunt in disc or have the ability to disc out some targets.... say digging half that? BUT .... adding a WOT coil and maybe missing some rings that are REAL deep just be cause it sees them as ferr targets? Like Tom said its about time and pay off.

Dew

what am i willing to do?..........almost anything at this point!!!!! dew, i know that you know who bigscoop is. bigscoop and i have been comunicating by pm two or three times a week over the last 7 months. the discussion usually goes like this
.............................................................".are you finding any gold? i just cant understand why im not getting any rings!!!!! im hunting all the time! gridding the beach! getting there before other hunters and beaches are packed with people wearing bling. im thinking of getting a pi, or big coil!!!! just dont understand this!!!!! i feel like im waisting my time!"etc:

i have been at the beach at 3 pm with the beach packed during a high tide and hunted until around 9 pm with very poor results.....two or three pieces of junk jewelry per hunt was my normal hunt this year. i hunt primaraly at night and i hunt slow and cover the beach from high tide line to about waist deep at low tide. only thing i can figure is that the lost rings hit the sand and are gone/out of detection range within about 5 or 10 mins. seen relativly few other detectorists and the ones i seen were not hunting grids or were swinging there coil in a pendulam fashion, moving really fast, etc: other hunters are not my concern or problem......sand seems to be my problem!!!!!
how well did you do this year on the west coast? over here everyone seems to have had the same very poor results !!!!!

dew, if you asked theese questions or made these statements on any of the other forums what kind of response would you expect?
"pi detectors are not any deeper on gold rings than a excal or cz".
"you will not get any more depth with a sef 10x12 or 12x15, 18x15 coil than you will get from a stock excal or cz 10 /10.5 inch coil"
"a tesoro sandshark is no match for a excal or cz"...........how much discussion/arguments did you see this year on the forums regarding the sandshark?.

i have absolutly no experiance with a pi machine and the only one i have ever seen used is toms aquastar. it looks like you have the same questions i do? some pros swear by the whites dual field! garrett infinium is supposed to be top of the line pi machine!.....why? why not? forgetting about micro/tiny gold are pi machines that much better than a cz or excal and under what conditions?

so many questions, misconceptions!!!!!!!!!

chuck.

The Aquasound is based on the DMC2b and the headhunter is based on the 1280x.

Chuck.... yes ive talked to Bigscoop and now hes going another direction with the 8 inch coil finding more chains. Again... working small specific areas. Yes we have somewhat of the same question.... whats the difference in sensitivity to say a white gold ring with a PI that is uS15 over a VLF like the Xcal? Is sensitivity and depth the same thing in a way because each of these targets will vary..... small gold, white gold, gold with stones ect? So depth difference may vary per target detected. PI handles mineralization very well..... but doesnt care much for EMI.

You arent to far off on what people think about their machine selection. Many arent willing to accept there may well be something better if they look and be specific in their choice. No one machine does it all WELL.

Thanks swmomark..... good information. I knew about the headhunter, but not the other. Ill do some more looking around..... hefty price for a DMC2b.

Dew

A very thin white gold ring or for that matter, a very thin yellow gold ring can give you a broken sound on a CTX. I think most people would not stop to investigate to find out what gave you that sound. But due to the fact that I have a bad hearing problem, I am very dependence on the TID meter to help me decide if to go after the target. So far my lightest thin white gold ring weight is 1.3 grams and the lightest thin yellow gold ring weight is 0.8 grams.

Terry

IF you can stand it on the Exp if you switch to LONG you can get a bit more depth on the smaller stuff just because the audio is given enought time to respond.

I guess much like they did in choice of freq for single freq machines they choose what worded best for the masses. Same with water machines. Not everyone is a Tom.... more like me so companies give us a pretty wide span of small to large gold. But some think outside the box and see that many large deeper targets are miss and use a much larger coil. Others think..... man look at all the gold being missed how can i get the smaller stuff. To me.... i believe there is a LOT more of the near/undetectable gold being missed. Right now increasing sensitivity to it also increases sensitivity to trash.... tiny trash. Lets hope like Tom said someone with vision reads these posts and thinks outside the box like us. There could be a totally different detector produced.

dew