Can I turn my XP Deus into a CZ-3D type coin shooter??? is

I have 4 tones available to me when I go into the Disc mode and push the expert button. Let's say that I would use 8 khz as my FOC (frequecy of choice) before doing anything, I would take a group of coins, clad and silver, dimes and quarters, maybe a half dollar, a gold dollar, etc and in 8 khz, i would get an air reading of these coins and find out what number they show up at. I then program my disc to knock out all iron, or maybe I would keep it at 6.7 or somewhere in there, to kepp nails and globs of rust from sounding off too high. I would set low tone as iron, obviously, as that is a default agreement. Tone two would be nickels/foil/ small gold. Tone three, pennys form zinc to wheats, and tone four would be dimes, quarter whether clad or silver. I would have to read the numbering system ( I mean, it DOES work in clean environs down to x amount of inches). Would this (or one like it, but maybe tweaked a bit more professionally) be sort of like hunting with a CZ-3D only with the added benefit of a FAIRLY useful numbering system???
For you guys with the 13 inch coil, does the numbering ID system seem to be enhanced, depth-wise? I am still waiting on that 11 inch coil that is supposed to be released. But I have gotten so used to my 9 inch coil that I can make do with it. I have found alot of coins with this unit. I found a walking liberty half dollar the other day that sounded off wonderfully crisp, clean, and quick. (Although I'm sure that a silver half dollar at 6 inches is not that much of a challenge). But other coins as well. The only problem is, if there is other metal under the coil, it changes the actual ID of the targeted piece. I guess what I am trying to ask: Can you program a Deus to be a pretty able coin shooter by adjusting the four tones and assigning different tones to them?
I know that air test don't mean much but my Deus with a 9 inch coil air tests a dime at over 12, closer to 13 inches with a repeatable hi tone. That's not bad!!!! And if I keep on top of the ground balance and don't try to use a too high ground balance, the depth is quite acceptable. I mean, the XP Deus is certainly no Etrac (for coins) but I am thinking that it can be programmed to pick out silver dimes and quarter's form amongst can slaw. And as I grow savvy to it's tone qualities for can slaw and other junk, maybe a gold ring. I found a silver Minie Mouse ring at the last site I hunted that had .925 written inside the band. The ring was squashed, so the ROUNDNESS (no, i don't normally use that word, I am being facetious) was gone from the ring but the Deus reported with enough UMMPH!!! for me to hit a knee after pulling a plug. One thing I forgot to say in defense of the numbering system, the Deus was IDing bullets for me the other day (number ID's) at some respectable depths. One of which was as deep as my Garrett Propointer is long. No exaggeration. But the soil was fairly good in this local and Ground Balanced at 71.
But I think that the Deus can be made versatile with adjustablilty that the designers designed into it. Taking it from being a Niche machine.....to a general purpose machine with the ability to be transformed into a niche machine...ie. square nail carpeted ground. Just an idea that I am toying with while it is pouring sleet and rain.

How to turn a Deus into a CZ-3D???

Don't know how TD did it, but the CZ-3D sniffs out the deep coins in enhanced mode better/easier than a Minelab or that confounded Deus creation.
I say confounded because I'm continually frying my brain trying to make good use of the wireless system, it is ever so ergonomic.

Anyway, targetting deep coins with a Deus is difficult.

Here is my best shot at it and you don't even need tones!

Select your frequency of choice, I'd pick 12 kHz because it doesn't wrap iron as much as the 8 kHz.
Audio pitch mode.
With the multi notch feature notch everything out you don't want.
If I remember correctly 0-35 for most foil
43-45 for the common pulltab
85-87 for the crown cap

Dig every soft low tone, you're targetting small/deep signals.

The 13" coil is decent at covering ground, but not at achieving more depth on coin sized targets.
It does hit Coke cans at unbelievable depths in dry midsummer sand.
Pinpointing is sloppy, you really need to work the coil tip around the target.

Deus coil designs aren't great for scrubbing and fast efficient sweeps of large area's.
You are far better off with a round 10" coil and a frisbee underneath.

HH
Johnb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 09:08PM by scoopjohnb.

The Deus has worked great for me. I never scrub the ground with it, as it picks up ground noise. I never use pinpoint function, I just 90 degree the signal and am rarely off. Out of all the units I have bought and sold, I have kept the Deus the longest. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Besides, I may be asking too much for a machine that was designed for trashy areas, which, for me, it excels in. Thanks for your feedback.

I set the tones of the Deus up to help me with coin shooting. I sacrifice nickels because there just is not enough tones to do what I want to do and include nickels.

The Deus is a great detector. Maybe the best I have ever used. I'm not saying it is the best out there. I'm saying the best I have used for what I want to do. But there are a couple things that that keep it from being a good tone ID machine. First off the tones are related to VDI numbers. And the Deus numbers are not accurate enough to set a tight parameter. I have seen Indians hit pretty far apart. The second being that the VDI numbers totally change when the frequency is changed. I need to be able to drop or raise the frequency in the field. Adjusting tones and remembering three sets of VDI numbers is way too much.

I expect the new version three to offer some help with the VDI numbers. The Deus has come to America where we need to have a better visual display. Our garbage demands it. I hope they do something.

Thanks Goodmore. I am really fond of my Deus to. And to be quite honest, I am quite proud of myself for holding onto it. I even have a 13 inch coil coming Friday.I agree with the nubering system and it's fallabilities.

The machine is outstanding if you pay no attention to the TID readout. I found out a couple of years ago when I got my first Excalibur hearing is where it's at. You'll have to agree that watching numbers will make you miss a lot of good targets no matter what machine you are using.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 02:09AM by Jack Flynn.

Yes I agree that numbers will cost you finds. There is up average, and down average, and other issues that make the numbers unreliable. And I agree that sound determines if I dig or not. But the VDI numbers on the Deus just bug the heck out of me. They just wreck the masterpiece for me. I also have the CTX. Now that is some serious target ID numbers.

Yes, the Etrac built the faith in VDI numbers back up that had been lost with my Deus. I dig hi tones ( I have it set two tone) and no matter what the VDI numbers say although sometimes, if the ground is clean, the VDI numbers on the Deus are often correct. But I sure don't let them dictate whether I dig or not. I didn't wear the right knee out of all my britches for nothing. LOL

I can tell you from over 3 years with the ETrac, superb at teaching the detectorist what to dig. It is a masterpiece of discrimination and TID. When I started hunting by ear my finds soared. Then switched to non TID machines and never looked back until the Deus. I literally pay no attention to the TID until the target is in the pile out of the sand or hole. What I cannot wait for is either the clip for the earphone controller so I can run my RAT phones or some noise cancelling headphones for the machine to see really what the Deus can tell me.

Kevin B Wrote:
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> The Deus has worked great for me. I never scrub
> the ground with it, as it picks up ground noise.
> I never use pinpoint function, I just 90 degree
> the signal and am rarely off. Out of all the
> units I have bought and sold, I have kept the Deus
> the longest. Different strokes for different
> folks, I guess. Besides, I may be asking too much
> for a machine that was designed for trashy areas,
> which, for me, it excels in. Thanks for your
> feedback.

I'm not saying the Deus doesn't work "great". You asked about turning it into a CZ-3D.
In enhanced mode this detector is very easy to use and pulls deeper older finds mixed up with trash in the same hole, no problem.

When you are picking up ground noise with the Deus you are running it too hot.

Deus designed for trash?? I may be rubbing it's fans the wrong way, but I think not.
Lightning fast recovery and blended audio yes. However with the tones blending into each other, you will miss finds.
You need short fast tones which will punctuate a target, or elongated tones in non-discriminated area's like an E-trac.

TID on the Deus is spot on, when the target is centered in the coils sweet spot. A 9" coil is simply too big for real trash, because there will be multiple targets
under the coil at all times. Hence TID jumps around. You can use TID to program you're machine,

Try to input that hunting by ear into a CZ-3D hipmounted or a small HF coil on an X-terra or the 6" coil on the CTX.
You will be amazed at what the blended audio tones on the Deus "blended" out.
I'm not saying the detector missed it, just that audio report isn't tuned for coin shooting.

If XP brings out the V3 with more coin shooting options, my dealer will see cash again.

However it is great for relic style dig it all!

HH
Johnb

Really interesting thread if you are a coin hunter (like me).

I didn't really like the Deus for coin shooting but it was clearly performing for the job it was meant to (in iron).
Johnb - A lot of what you said I experienced with the Deus (I had one for a week) and couldn't verbalize what I experienced, but you points were spot on.
If they can get the tones to NOT match the VID (since that jumps) and just be a tone hunter and have an option not to blend so much, it will be a much better coin hunter (and it is already quite good).
Great machine, just was a big adjustment coming from an E-Trac.

Albert

In my experience a CZ-3D or Minelab X-terra VLF you are trying to coax a good tone out of a target.
A bit like morse code: Dot Dot Dot DIT Dot Dot Dot / Iron Iron Iron TARGET Iron Iron Iron
Easy on the ear and highly recognisable.
Shorten the sweep and it turns to Dot DIT DIT Dot / Iron TARGET TARGET Iron

With a Deus I would discribe it as.
DoOOotdiIIiitdoOOOoot you are listening to pitch and volume changes and really need to lower the iron volume for the target to come out pronounced.
I mostly ran the Deus with as little Iron volume as possible.

Now imagine in non-ferrous trash you are trying to distinguish between a dot dat dut dit dyt all blended together.

I really liked the Deus notch feature, say the most common pulltab in the area you're digging.
Center it under the coil sweet spot, aply 2 points of notch on the TID and a tone break on the TID.
This breaks up the target signal and makes the Deus warble on standardised trash.

Every clean sounding target isn't standardised trash and should be dug.

So in comparison to a CZ or Minelab VLF you aren't trying to coax a good signal, you aren trying to coax a chopped up warbled signal on trash.
You are looking for excuses not to dig, counterproductive!!
If that doesn't mess up your brain I don't know what will.

But Hey,... each to his own and if you enjoy listening to a Deus and having great finds. Why not.
I like Easy going country music with a bit of 80-90's mixed in.
Some people prefer hard rock, metal,... or maybe Bach or that whiiney Chinese stuff.

Don't mind my ramblings.

HH
Johnb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 11:42AM by scoopjohnb.

I appreciate all the feedback. When someone takes the time to type out a reply to one of my questions, I fully appreciate it.......even if my re-reply doesn't sound it. I apologize if/when I got a bit defensive about the Deus. It really does have some.......I don't know if I should call them "faults"......maybe I should say...some "idosyncrasies". The other day, when I was in bullet heaven, I was "calling" what I was about to dig by using the numbering system coupled with knowing what the bullet sounds like. Different from a coin.
Yes, you are correct, i asked, in different wording, if due to the Deus's adjustability, I could turn it into a CZ-3D and have a coin machine that would be close. But really, after reading the replies, and giving it some thought, I would be asking a machine that is totally not MEANT to be like a CZ-3D, to BE like one, just because the Deus has four tones and the ability to adjust those four tones. Upon looking back, I see that the question was kinda silly (especially considering that I had an awesome CZ-3D that I bought from NasaTom that he had calibrated). I was sitting around thinking the other day and I thought: well the Deus has four tones available. I can assign different frequencies to the four tones. But I guess that's about as close to the CZ-3D that I'm gonna git. I have grown very used to using this machine in a very simple two tone configuration. I don't use three tones and make the two lower tones 200 khz. I simply use two tones. And the tone break occurs at the point of discrimination. I could probably get more verstitlity out of my Deus but I can just pitch it into the car, with my pro pointer, and predator shovel, and go have a couple of hours of some pretty intense adventure. Even in the trashiest of places. By NO means am I implying that it's the BEST. I hope that I have THAT one coming within a couple of weeks, give or take ( I have a Vista Gold propack coming). Best for trash and low conductors, that is. Heck, I'll just stop and be totally candid: I just love to try new detectors. Buy and sell, buy and sell, buy and sell. It's all in good fun. I TRULY appreciate the replies, although my first reply probably didn't sound like it. LOL You guys have a great day!!!! I'm going outside to look through all my junk finds and see if I overlooked a gold coin. lol

You can only sound deffensive about something you really like, enjoy,.... love might be stretching it.

Same over here, I bought one and it didn't leave the car for quite a while.
After the initial "cool new tech" reaction,... came the questions, frustrations, limitations concerning its use as a coin shooter/jewelry hunter.

When I'm talking about jewelry, you really need to note that my test piece is a 10mmx2mmx1,5mm platinum "nail with small diamond mounting hole" piece.
Actually nugget prospecting machine stuff.

Deus detected it, in its face with 18 kHz, nearly maxed out sens, spot on ground balance, reactivity 0, disc 1,5 or something like that.
Other detectors in my arsenal had more depth to the target, but a very nice result from a 9" coil.

I guess I don't like Citroen cars,.... the wife drives one,.... aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh

HH
Johnb

I've been using the Deus for almost 2 years and the CZ3D for 2&1/2. Both are great machines. The CZ is good at telling you when a good target is under the coil, although sometimes the machine gets fooled. The Deus is good at delivering raw information about what's under the coil, although sometimes the operator (me) gets fooled. I like the CZ for the deeper stuff and for areas with low to mid levels of ferrous and non-ferrous trash. The Deus is my trash-picker and has earned me the majority of my silver finds at the city parks and urban sites that I hunt. These places have been hit by a lot of machines for a lot of years but the really trashy spots are still giving up some good targets. It's a matter of interpeting those signals, and the Deus can be a noisy beast, especially when using all four tones.

At 18kHz with reactivity level at 3-5 the nine inch coil has an extreemly tight footprint, however it would be nice to see XP come out with a smaller coil to reduce the length of the detection field.

Kevin, I'm hoping for at least one more tone when version 3 comes out so I can set it up more like CZ 3D which uses five tone ranges. Other than that, like you stated, it's a different machine. If Fisher would just come out with a CZ with the iron handling and target seperating abillities and light weight of the Deus.....that would be it for me.

Yes, I have many times just bowed and shaken my head when I consider the fact that I sold the CZ-3D that I bought from NasaTom. At the time, all of my sites where of a more trashy nature, and I dug ALOT of (what I thought) where clean hi tones only to be surprised by a piece of trash, a bent nail or the like. I cannot really remember what the CZ falsed on most, but it would give a good two way repeatable signal, and then again at 90 degree rotation of the body relative to the target. But still, I was SERIOUSLY a rookie when I bought and sold it. I'm still a rookie, but I have added some knowledge to the brain pan thanks mainly to this forum, and Phone Consulations with NasaTom, which are worth their weight in gold. Since I have sold that machine, I have added sites to my repetoire of hunting sites that would bit the CZ-3D nicely.
Yes, I hope that Version Three will address several issues that committed Deus users (like others and myself) have seen as needing refined. BUT:
Since I don't know that much about electronics, particularly what is involved in these machines, I have a hard time thinking that a new downloadable version can really add that much to the electronic components that are presently in the machine. I mean this: Let's say that when the Deus was designed, complete with all the little capacitors and other electronic doo dads, that the designer did his very best at optimizing the entire package for depth, the way it Ground Balances, it's DISC circuitry, et al, how much room can be left for improvement WITHOUT ADDING SOME ACTUAL ELECTRONIC COMPONENTRY. I mean, I can see that a few items can be tweaked in its present state. Maybe the board graphics can be changed, etc etc. But what I am trying to say here.....can a TX-4 be added (boost mode for the transmit power), and subsequently, an enhanced receiving power? (without actually adding electronic components). Anyway, I guess anyone can tell from my talk here, that my knowledge of electronics is seriously impaired. What it boils down to, (in MY mind and with MY grasp of this digital stuff), is: How much can a new downloadable program REALLY help as far as enhanced efficiency. (wow, it is exhausting to try and talk about something of which I know nothing about). Mr.Wilburino, I didn't necessarily mean this post to be a direct reply to your reply, although I seriously appreciate your reply. It is just my general musings about Version Three, and my asking myself and everyone else who might know about the technical aspects of this stuff: Will I have a DEEPER unit, a unit that is even BETTER at separation, or will the changes be minor: ie. new font for the screen graphics, wider iron range (from 1 to 20 instead of from 1 to 10), or other minor, yet welcome alteration/optimization.

Actually you can make a deus work like a cz3d by selling the xp and buying a versatile cz3d.

supertraq Wrote:
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> Actually you can make a deus work like a cz3d by
> selling the xp and buying a versatile cz3d.


I think having both would be a wise choice. They each excel in their intended designs...

What I can't wrap my head around is why someone would buy a Deus for coin shooting?!? You can do that with a $100 detector from Radio Shack. Unless I had a place to hunt where I knew there are a slew of coins pre-1900 below 6 inches that my older simpler machines had no chance of getting, why spend the money on a detector that never gets a chance to "open 'er up!" It's like buying a thorough bred race horse to use for pony rides at the fair? But that's just me!

well Arthur first you have to understand once you turn on the Deus you have 10 factory programs which is 10 defferent detectors,then XP gives you 8 more slots for 8 more programs which is 8 more detectors,so each time you step thru the door to do whatever detecting your going to do you have 18 detectors in your hand, which weights a little more than a pound.I can wrap around with that .

Sorry beau61 but that's nonsense. You have 1 detector with the same characteristic and different ( "digital knobs" ) compromises. The Deus is a very expensive beep and dig machine. You have to dig almost every target. There is no way to get around it. The Deus is useless in trashy areas, unless you enjoy the digging part more than detecting. There are better and less expensive options for coin shooting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 12:05PM by x2000.

Sorry x2000 you never learned how to use the Deus

beau61 Wrote:
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> Sorry x2000 you never learned how to use the Deus


Unfortunately this is the most common answer you will get in almost every Deus topic, as soon as you point out the downsides of this machine. I came to my conclusion, because I understand how this detector works and where it excels the most. I would be careful with statements like "18 detectors in 1". Some people could actually believe it. The disappointment would be huge.

I'm glad the Deus does not have 1000 memory slots...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 05:10PM by x2000.

We all believe in what we want.I like the Deus ,you don't like the Deus.HH

If we all liked the same thing, it would be a boring world, would it not?

There's a lot of opinions about the Deus going around but very little information about what it can do different than other brands.

I have a buddy in TN that swears by this machine and he got rid of his E-Trac after buying it. He won a relic shoot-out with it a couple of years back and beat every other make and model, but then he is a really good detectorist and skill played a big part in his win I'm sure.

I've seen it working on a test bed that is an iron separation test from hell. My Wilson could not do it, but it does not have a DD coil. The T2 was able to perform the test easily as well.

I have another friend that has a Deus and he struggle with digging up crap all the time that he didn't with his XLT and DFX.

Therefore, I am thoroughly confused about what the Deus can do consistently better than any other good detector out there...new or vintage!