Tweaked on the LOBO ST today and pretty impressed (VIDEO)

I internally tweaked on the LOBO and now have it hitting all the targets in my test bed....

also did the nail board test ...

[www.youtube.com]

Keith

Keith, how does it do in pulling out nonferrous in nail plagued areas? Is is fairly simple to do the mod? with Keith's instructions, of course.

I like the depth, 12/1/4" IN THE GROUND!!.... and bad ground at that.

Its running a hair below 18kHz ozzie...Like tejon.....

it pulls stuff out of iron very very well...once you learn the nuances of a analog tesoro...

The disc circuti is classic tesoro...loves brass and low conductor's....will pick through iron amazingly well...the gain is not quite as hot as the Tejon...but the disc circuit is a little cleaner ..understandable though soonc eit not cranked up...but in iron like all high freq machine sit will unmaask beeter than lower freq counterpart's...

The Lobo St is a Dave Johnson design,,,it has VCO in the disc circuit...its eerily close to the G2 if that makes sense as it should...yet the lobo offers more resolution in the iron range....the G2 can't pass the the nail board test 100%...

that's the thing if just one manufactuer would combine it all together for us we would have our own DEUS-GMP-DTVG right here in the states.. the more I delve into the inner wroking's of American high freq unit's I am not so sure that the Euorpean did not simply copy our unit's and enhance them...with variable tone breaks, DD coils,etc..the GMP could of easily been a tejon tricked out...

I so wish that Tesoro or FT or someone state side would give us the 18-19kHz machines with tone break added with high resolution disc in the iron/nail range...

the tesoros have better resolution in the nail range than the FT machine's...yet not as good as the GMP....

Iron resolution and tight dd's on a high freq machine is the Key to success....and the split tone add the extra little nuance to the audio that startup shut down does not allow...

Not sure where there R&D is aimed but its not at UNLOCKING a iron infested hole to the fullest...

they already have it jsut tweak it ..I amthinking thats what the Euros have done...

but yes Ozzie it works very well in iron for unmasking...LOL...there that was easily said...

Keith

Very cool Keith that thing sounds like a G2 what kinda depth was you getting before tweaking on it?

Great job on the video as usual Keith,
I had no idea the lobo was so fast.
On your nail board test I am wondering if doing the test on a clean piece of ground would be any different?
Being a tracking machine I am thinking (I am probably wrong though) if it doesn't see a ground matrix after each swing it may balance to the nails.
Reading the matrix then having to disc the nails then hit the penny throws one more variable in there for the machine.
I am only saying this because it is a tracking machine and I thought they needed to see a matrix to work properly. I don't think the Lobo has a track lock? so seems balance would set to nails.

Thanks Agian
HH
jim

Hey Jim the Disc ground bal is internally set it does not track....the all metal mode does track...but it does not carry over to the disc side...

yes the Lobo is very fast...its also VCo audio like The G2? Humm....

Seriuosly though Dave Johnson built both the Lobo ST and the G2...And they are both very boundry pushing machine's...the G2 is more updated...

they are both very similiar...

I have said since the G2 came out that its a lobo with target I.D...

The lobo does have more resolution in the nail range than the G2...

Might try and see if the Biaxial can run on the LOBO..

I have dug hundreds and hundreds of relics with the Lobo st over the last couple of decade's....

I discovered the strengths of the Lobo one day in a detector shop...I use to go in about once a month or so and the dealer (now retired and closed shop( was a multi line dealer so he had the all.....I would spend hours in his test field with each and every unit....when the Lobo St came Out I quickly saw the advantage it had in iron...must of been around mid 90s or so?...but yes it was/ is a nice machine in iron for unmasking....That was the period for tesoro when the the other offerings they had was using the 120 disc circuit....the lobo was using the 180...the lobo was able to get in the nail range better than the say at the time the bandidos or silver sabres...they would get to right above the nails...and while the unmasked very well in iron the Lobo was on another level for unmasking when properly set up for the site.


Keith

Thanks for the reply Keith,

Boy I bet your right a DD coil on that baby would really take it to another level!
So the lobo basically does have track lock and in three positions, alk, blk sand, and normal.
I would venture to say some of the internal tweaks you have been making are in that arena dialing in the disc base balance for your specific area!

The years use with a unit as well as knowing the inner workings and taking the time to tweak and tweak until its right sure can take a machine to a new level!
Kinda shows how technology in the detector field really is kinda at a stale point so to speak, new processors components software programs, new ways to look at the same old stuff!!!
Easier more user friendly doing more in software faster performance but really the same foundations that were hot ten years ago.

Once again thanks for the enlightenment!
HH
jim

I had a lobo many years ago when it was the secret weapon in UK, just before version 1 of GMP the goldmaxx.

Not many detectors could compare to it then for small finds. It was the secret ruler. Then came DFX and MXT with high frequencies and the goldmaxx.

Some american insiders to the secret that was joining the Jimmy Sierra Tours used the LST with good results.

Was very efficient on european soil in alkali with the 8 inch Conc coil.

The UK hybrid detector Vaquero- LST lacks the alkali mode, just saying.

Wow that depth is amazing. I have a Lobo Super Traq laying around in the closet. It is a good machine for sure. I haven't used it all that much though. I was impressed with it as soon as I got it. The first good signal I got with it was an 1889 indian head penny. I took it out in my yard and hit the indian right in the middle of the yard. I had previously hunted this whole area with my F2 and stock 8" coil. I used the Lobo a few times then got a deal on an 11"DD coil for the F2 and liked that one alot. Then I got my T2 and the Lobo has just been sitting. I wish I knew how to do the gb mod on my Lobo, but then I might neglect my T2.

Oh by the way. That 1889 indian head was my first indian head and is still the oldest coin I have found.

Looks like a great little iron sifter there Keith -- has depth to boot - - - nice!

Keith, how about posting a photo of which pot to adjust. Can an external pot be put on it?

How does the Tejon compare when power balanced?

Thanks,
Rick, N. MI

You can p.m. me and I will tell you But would rather to not spread it around and cause possible future buyers any problem's...I would hate to see someone tune it for their dirt then sell it and it does not work right for someone else...

In other dirt's it could kill the depth or become too noisy...Hate to see that....

I can honestly say the Tejon is a hotter unit then the Lobo .......the Lobo has a better disc circuit for rejection but in an all out unmasking match the tejon has a advantage once audibly learned...

Thanks

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 10:49PM by Keith Southern.

I was wondering. I haven't used the Lobo in a while, but isn't it silent search in disc mode? How do you set ground balance without a threshold to compare from the air and the ground?

To ground bal an machine in disc mode you bob the coil up and down like you would in all metal and turn CCW on the Ground knob till you hear feedback from the ground as you raise the coil from the soil....go to far and it will be extremely noisy and falsey...just get enough so that when yuo swing it across the ground you dont get too much or any erratic mineral noise...

A DD coil will help to alleviate some of the gorund nosie and get you better smoother hunt when compared to a concentric coil at the same ground setting...

I have a few videos on youtube showing the disc balance procedure...

[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for the info Keith. I really like the videos. I haven't used a discriminater like that yet.

Hi,,,,nice report..........JJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2013 03:42AM by jimmyjiver.

Keith,

When Reg Sniff did the Lobo ST Field Test for Lost Treasure, he reported that in all metal he could distinguish rusty iron and foil from lead by the pitch of the response - the iron and foil giving a much higher pitched response? Have you ever noticed this?

Yes Big iron will squeal at you...surface foil can have some fluttey sound to it also..

So yes the VCO audio if you listen wil have tell tale sign's..

but whta changes it its if the items are deeper in the ground..like foil deep will soud smooth and good...and larger iron deep will sound rounder smoother ...

Th disc circuit also is in vco and offers clues..

Keith

Good stuff Keith, As you probabely know, love my G2...just about the only machine I have consistently been using for 3 years....but to get any decent depth I had to put an Ultimate 13" coil on it. How did the Lobo compare depth wise in your test garden to the G2 as per depth? Also wouldn't mind if you PM'd me the mod you did on the Lobo. Nirvana for me would be if FT would release a G2 SE that had a boost mode like the T2's and F75. I have yet to encounter a site where I have to hunt with less than 100% gain on the G2...and she is smooth as butter....would be nice to be able to bring it up to the edge of instability. Bill

I actually found the Lobo to be a tad bit deeper than the G2...

I cant seem to get a power balance to happen on the G2...I can run it anywhere on the ground bal and it still runs fine no ground feedback if any sort that I can see..still not sure the G2 balances in disc mode...Probably not...I think the G2 has an internal preset Ground bal for disc mode just like the Lobo...

If you look inside the G2 theres a Ground control pot and it does effect the disc mode...

ive always thought the G2 was a Lobo with a I.D....Well the same guy did build both

I will P.M. you

Keith

Shifting ground balance in the discriminate mode to more negative settings increases ground response but also tends to increase discriminate mode depth as Keith demonstrated with the Lobo ST.

If we go back to considering the G2/GBP, There is apparently just the one pot in the G2 and that it controls nulling the detector/coil to ferrite - the set point for ground balance. Keith has now pointed out that it affects discrimination. I have noticed with another manual,ground balance machine (a modified IDX) that excessive negative GB will shift discriminate points "upwards" so that large silver is no longer detected. I recall reading that this was a problem with early examples of the new Gold Big platform and that FT adjusted the pot to fix it. I also recall that some complained that the fix reduced depth!

Yes the G2 has an internal pot...

Yes I was the one who found out the machine was not set correctly and reported it to First Texas...So I know the whole story LOL!!

And the problem was the internal pot was aligned to the Omega specs...the people on the assembly line not really knowing just set it up like the Omega...so we lost the highest of conductor's.you can tell a dime was weak maybe 4 inches then a quarter about 2 inches then a half was almost gone and a silver dollar was gone....

But the depth on low conductors was hot..

When they realigned them them then the silver came in but the depth dropped off a bit on the lower conductor's but not alot..as you will notice its not as hot on a silver dollar right now as it is say a quarter...and a nickle is the hottest...but it should be like that because of the freq...Im thinking after the realign went on that there was some more circuit change by the time the final model came out...Mine was a 2.9 and after the silver fix it was still pretty hot but what sticks out in my mind the most is a nail wuld reject at 17 on the disc now it takes 30 on the 4.0 so there was more tweaking going on after the first circuit like VCO adjsutments self clearing I.d. sceen and such..Ihvae all the info posted here somwhere,,,,but the 2.9er was alway's the hottest and best at unmasking of the Gold bug's..but the g2 and gold 4.0 has better needed things excpt the 2.9 depth and resolution...


(((((Thats not the case with the X5 is it...19Khz and has to be one of the hottest silver machines I ever owned....Troy had a unique design in the X5...I believe Dave Johnson desinged that machine for him but said that He was not around when Troy did the high conductor boost magic...That machine is a screamer on deep silver ...)))))

But back to the G2...if you mess with the pot you will mess with the I.D.slightly...

It messes with the Disc circuit on the Lobo ST also but you just readjust your disc and its no biggie...but on the G2 it causes the I.D. to be off..I really would not tweak on the G2...

I at first though it was an offset but its not its is its own circuit it so seems..

A few machines offset the disc ground even when it carries over form the all metal..Like a tejon and most other tesoro's...you can take a tesoro except the Lobo/Cortes of course.. and set it dead on for all metal and then when you flip into disc mode it will be slighlty too positive..but it runs smoother.....They call this built in mineral rejection...so that's why on say a tejon if you set it up right in all metal and hunt disc you wont see the full advantage of depth..I use to watch videos of people when they would do a video of the tejon against other machines but they would not go to the trouble to adjust for the offset..adjust for the offset and watch things even up...

The X5 on the other hand is set up witht the all metal ground carries into the disc and offers no offset...have you ever read were people had alot of problems witht the X5 being too noisy in the dirt in disc mode and quickly dismiss it as erratic...well you will find that to make a X5 run smooth in bad dirt you turn it up anohter half to full turn on the gorund bal while in disc mode...but watch what happens wherever you had your discrimination set at when the all metal ground bal was dead on will change when you adjust it upwards to compensate in disc mode ground....it will say be rejecting a nail at 2.8...move the ground bal for smoother performance and then the Discrimination might take 3.1 to reject same nails...

but the tejons or X5s and lobos and such have no meters so no biggie...but you can see why thyings happen like they do...that's why its important to know what happens on each model of detectors when you adjsut the ground ..how does it effect the disc and how to set it up rigt instead of dismissing alot of machines as inferior..

I have added the Mr Bill Mod to alot fo Idx's and classics and surfmaster's....and the mod does effect the I.D. on the IDX...

these type machines where the disc changes and the I.D. changes as you move the ground bal are the simpler circuit's...

The more advanced machine's like the MXT the 3030 xlt 5900etc etc have sophisticated algorithims to take care of alot of this...

Keith

Keith,

It's thoughtful, detailed input like you just posted that makes this forum the best. Thanks for taking the time to do,what I had hoped you would, namely answer my short post with a big dose of good data.

Merry Christmas to you and yours and thanks for another year's worth of sharing your knowledge and experience.

Rick Kempf