Me learning to unmask with the Gold Bug Pro, lesson 2...

Yesterday, we hunted some old home foundations where no visible remnants of the homes remain. As such, as you would imagine, there were nails scattered everywhere -- a machine-gunning of iron tones. That being said, I continued to gain confidence at hearing -- and then recovering -- non-ferrous targets from amongst the nails. I found nothing of particular value, but I considered each small non-ferrous target recovery a success. What I'm noticing is that, with the "iron break" set at 40, nails will at times still chirp through the "break" and give a "high tone." But, it seems that I'm learning some strategies for figuring out if it's a non-ferrous target in amongst the nails, or just a nail trying to ACT like a co-located ferrous and non-ferrous target. Here are three "rules of thumb" I'm learning to use with some degree of success...ONE -- if you can "isolate" a fairly consistent "high tone" by shortening coil sweeps to tiny little back-and-forth movements, it's more likely that there is a non-ferrous target in there (as opposed to a less repeatable high-tone blip that can't be "isolated" ); TWO -- there does seem to be some correspondence (not surprising) between HOW LONG you can maintain that high-tone chirp as you rotate around the target -- i.e. through how large of an angular sector you can hear the "high tone"; in general (and I'm sure this rule is does break down when dealing with an almost completely masked target), the larger of a sector you can hear the "high-tone" chirp, the more likely there's a non-ferrous target in there; THREE -- (again, I know, from listening to Keith, NASA-Tom, and others, this rule also breaks down at times), if you can isolate not only a "high tone," but an ID into the mid to upper 40s or higher, there is a good chance there's a non-ferrous target in there (as opposed to something that barely reports above 40 or 42). It seemed to me that any time I really "reached" for a high-tone chirp that was transient, hard to isolate, would disappear fairly quickly as I rotated around the target, and would only ID into the low 40s, was usually iron (sometimes a bent nail, or one with a glob of rust, thus making it ID a bit high, but still only a nail).

Bottom line, I'm still trying to learn how to sort the "false" chirps amongst the iron grunts, from the "real" ones. It's difficult; square nails especially like to "sound good" -- better, in my experience, than more modern ones. For some reason, the new ones report correctly as iron more consistently than square nails. Still, when the GB Pro insists there's a mid-tone in there, there often is; I'm learning to trust this machine. Again, it just feels like you are using a very precise tool, a "scalpel." It's hard to describe, but using this super-fast machine and the 5"x10" coil, there's definitely a feeling that you can "split hairs" and really work through the iron. The "falses" -- especially those from square nails that can be pretty solid and repeatable through a large angular sector while rotating around them -- are still very challenging. But, I really am learning, and actually am starting to feel a strange feeling -- one where I WANT to go find the nail pits and embrace the challenge. For me, a person who has treated iron as an enemy to be avoided, this is quite a shift going on for me...

One other thing I noticed and that is that there IS some ability to hear "good" high tones, from "not so good" ones. There were several targets that were giving a high-tone and fairly high ID numbers, which turned out to be large iron (tools, etc; I dug a few round iron "rings" about the size of a "bracelet" that sounded pretty doggone good). Often, though, with these iron targets, there's a pretty clear "grunty" or "rough" sound at the end of some of the sweeps, whereas a non-ferrous target IDing similarly has a "softer" or "smoother" or more "mellow" sound on all the sweeps, even at the "edges." Somewhat hard to describe, but pretty distinct once you learn it.

Just some thoughts I wanted to share. NASA-Tom, you were right...while my opportunities to hone this skill (due to a lack of such sites around here), the learning is coming faster than I anticipated. I really feel like, if I had more of these sites available, I could really learn this skill. It's the square-nail sites I really want to hunt, though, since the square nails I find to be MUCH more challenging (since they seem, to me anyway, much more capable of reporting as a "good" target than modern nails). Do other hunters here find that to be true (square nails are harder to deal with, and fool you more often, than modern nails?)

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2014 02:26AM by steveg.

Steve good write up!

In field experince is going to be the order of the day in iron hunting...the more you hunt it the more you become in tune with it...

The tones and such need to be isolated to target size...the large iron, bigger than nails will give the high tone as it should if you are at nail reject only...but its usually a bouncy high tone low high low high...and bigger ..so you know its large iron falsing usually...and you decide if you want to recover or not ..I like to remove as much large iron as I can from a site thats worthy of it...a single hoe head or plow point or kettle chunk can shut down 2 square feet of dirt or more...

The nails that false into high tone are the most troublesome...They give that smaller footprint tight tone that a coin or buttons and such can give off...One thing I can usually pick out of a tone that I choose to dig especially on the snapshot machines like the g2 t2 etc are theres a certain hit the higher tone will make even if its just one way at times that alerts you to investigate...Just yesterday with the T2 I dug a few non ferrous that only reported on the east swing nothing on the westerdly pass or the north south pass.. yet it has that different tell tale sound..a nail false is usually dead hollow sounding but a legitimate hit will have the center filled up so to speak..or in the relic world the round sound....even if its just at one approach angle.....So once you know your not dealing with larger iron by the size of the grunt you can determine the next approach dig the good hit's,, then the iffy hits,,, then the maybe no chance hit's....it wont happen over night or in a month or maybe 6 months but over time the more you chase tone the more the tone will make sense to you..

Im in my 20th year of really hunting iron hard and it was a growing process for awhile.. and for awhile I did not know why things happened why it did ..I did not know in my mind back then what iron did to a signal or even anything about interaction...you come from hunting good clean signals for over a decade or more then you start into house site hunting/camp hunting and things were different targets sounded different but there was plenty of finds to be had....but just easy stuff to start with, then the evolution beigns and your doing it but you dont pay attenttion to why things happen like they do....

Now 20 years later with thousands of nails recovered and thousands of targets recovered a picture and an approach to the job at hand is understandable..about 5-6 years into iron hunting it started clicking in my mind what was happening...and now I just look for tools to help me unlock what I know in my mind to be the problem's...

But back then there was no books on the subject or internet or anything to help Us, so trial and error..now day's with the net and sites such as this and video's and such the learning process is shortened...

One of the biggest things I can stress is Knowledge of iron....by this I mean know what to expect when you are in iron and know why things happen as they do..Know your limitations of the detector and Know the complications of the iron obejcts....learn why nails sound better on the head than the shaft learn why iron rings sound great yet dead at the same time...learn that a carpet of intermingled nails are so complex to hunt that its amazing that anything can come out of them at all...Know the closer the small iron is to the coil the more it cancels out the larger good targets at depth ...Know how to combat the scenarios you come across..either by coil choice,freq choice or combination of both or many....

just get a woking model in your mind of the complications of iron hunting....it's the hardest but the most rewarding at the same time...stay in the iron the most because that's were ancient dwellers stayed the most...the more time spent in one area the more items lost.. the more items lost the more finds to be made yet the number one item lost or discarded is going to be the number one metallic object in the world...IRON....

Dont treat iron as a hinderance but as a site marker..without the abundance of iron in a spot there would not be the other intemrningled items in quantitiy that we seek..

Also dont over look the iron artifacts that are in huge quantity in these site's...the iron buckles are in great quantity in house site's...the Mickey Mouse Head pad locks, the iron skeleton key's.. the implements like hoes, axes, sad iron's, gun locks gun barrels gun parts of any kind bayonet's...Knifes of a large size etc... the artifacts are uncountable...

And yes the last part of your question is the square nails can sound better than a modern nail.. Especially the real early one's like 1840-1850 they are of a pure iron .. they wont rust just turn red... they look like the day they were dropped...no impurities.. they sound very good...

Also find headphones that work with you and the machine....analog paper cone phones dont do well with the G2...a set of high ohm digital style phones work better...

I have set of Timberwolf's that has the limiter on or off... they relay more than any phones to date ( TO ME) on the FT machine's...
little nuances can be heard in the PROPER phones for the machine when you are dissecting a site..

Keith


P.S.

I may also add Steve that the learning never stops....I still learn things after years and years in the iron...New things will be revealed to you if you pay attention and dont just go through the motions of hunting but actually concentrate and study while you hunt...

You can read all you want and talk about it all you want to but in field experience and quality time spent understanding will be your best factor to success..And dont pay much attention to a visual I.D. the tone is alot more informative than the I.D. can ever be...never rely on it especially in iron..

Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 04:06AM by Keith Southern.

Keith --

Thanks for the detailed and informative post. You talk about understanding "why" things happen as they do, when hunting in iron; I obviously am light-years away from that kind of understanding, and can't imagine getting there as I just don't have enough sites to practice on, in my neck of the woods. You really stressed needing to have this "knowledge of iron and why things behave as they do (why the nail head sounds better than the shaft, etc.) I have none of this knowledge, but I hope to gain as much of it as I can.

I fully understand your point about iron being "a marker;" it certainly is a great way to locate an old building or home site -- I understand this, and the reason why this should be used to your advantage. I also understand your point about some iron being an interesting artifact/relic in its own right. I did dig several iron buckles, a really neat/really old hoe, and a couple of tools that I did not recognize.

A few questions...

What does "intraction" mean?

What type of headphones are "analog, paper cone" and what type are "high ohm digital?" I hunt with SunRay Pro Golds, and they do allow me to hear the "nuances" better than the Koss phones that came with my Explorer. But, I have no idea whether they are digital or analog, high ohm or not, paper cone or other material...

I am not familiar with Timberwolf headphones, but perhaps I should pick up a pair for my GB Pro, and keep the Pro Golds for my Explorer...

Thanks, Keith...

Steve

LOL Steve ..I meant to type interaction....

that's the problem with having ad blocker running..I dont have the luxury of the spellchecker....the program blocks the spell checker so I am constantly having to edit my post as I reread them ...

the sunray gold are 150 ohm and should do fine with our machine.. thye have the mylar cone's also..

they would be very comparable ot the Timber's....I think the Golds have the limiter switch on/off also...

Timberwolf is out if business so a Moot point now...rest assured your Golds are the right for the FT machine..

Keith

Keith --

OH OK! "Interaction" makes total sense. I thought you were introducing a concept that I'd never heard of (intraction), which wouldn't have surprised me since I'm such a novice at dealing with iron! But yes, interaction...that makes sense.

Yes, the Golds have a "limiter switch," but I have no idea what it does or how to use it...there are two switches, and all I know is on one of them, I have to switch it one way for them to work on my Explorer, and the other way for them to work on my GB Pro; I've never questioned what's going on there any farther than that. That other switch, I don't even know what it does (I think I recall something about it "limiting" the peak volume on a really loud/shallow target?)

Steve

Hi Steve, I run a G2, the old square nails don't give me much trouble but the "dagblasted" little quarter size pieces of rusted tin are problematic! They always read in the low 80's, but it jumps around a little bit (unlike a coin signal) you kinda know what your digging after a while but on the old sites I usually dig anyhow because a lot of the good artifacts will do that. Came up with an old Spencer carbine reciever (looks like it was stripped for parts) and some old spent rounds. Several had S A W (Sage Ammunition Works) on the headstamp and were rimfire 56 by 56. Lots of hard work those old sites are! Lol

Yes the Limiter is to keep your hearing from getting blown out...but on the FT machiens you will find that they really dont have alot of volume to begin with..so I find keeping the limiter off on the timbers really loudens things up a bit then I turn the volume controls back a little to a reasonable level...

talking of Old hoe's...I have done a good bit of research on hoe's and theres certian type hoes that turn up on civil war period site's and before and I find them excellent dating tool's...

if I find the certian type Hoe I am almost certian im in a period site...

I keep all implement's like this for research... I have dozens and dozens of Hoe's of the 19th century and can break them down into catagories...

4 things every 19th century house has....

1 Hoe
1 Sad Iron
1 Axe
1 kettle

they may not have anything else in them but If no one else has dug them up a took them from the site those items are there..

I can tell you how many of the hoes, the iron's, the axes I have.. probably would be embarrasing to say LOL!!

But the hoes is the best dater... the Sad iron was the same for along time the Axe same deal but the Hoe evolved...

Notice they are all iron too...!!

Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 01:58AM by Keith Southern.

Keith --

Guess I could have kept that hoe! I have never seen one like the one I found...

By the way, what's a "sad iron?"

Los Alamos --

Cool finds -- sounds like you have some old dirt you are digging. I'm surprised though that the old square nails don't give you problems. On that one site I hunt, they REALLY, to my untrained ears and inexperience as a relic hunter, sound pretty doggone good...some days (when the ground is wet), they really, really will fool me.

Steve

"Sad" is an ancient word for heavy..

its an iron for ironing clothes...cast iron about 6 pound's you laid it on top of the stop to get hot then ironed with it.....they stayed almost unchanged through the mid to late 18th century til about the late 19th century other than markings being added later on, the shapes were the normal iron shape...

towards the end of the 1800's like about 1880 or so they became hollow in the center to put coals in to stay warm longer with...they had flues installed to create draft to keep the coals red...


Also Steve one thing you said earlier about not having alot of sites to hone your skill....

Unless you live downtown in a city or something that's the biggest misconception hunters have...No where to hunt...Older sites are everywhere if you know where to look and what to look for to find them...if you have land to roam on and permission to be on property you will find multitudes of places to hunt...more places than you might have time to hunt...Early sites are very specific usually...you need an old forgotten road bed and you need a small stream for water.. the house will be on the side of the road on one side of the stream or the other if its an old road.. and you probably wont see indiactors of the house site unless the Chimney rocks remain...

I know for a fact almost every old abandoned Rd will have house sites on it...But they are tough to find at first and you can walk right by them.. it takes a awhile to get in tune with the sense of finding them.

Pre civil war site will not usually have well holes so they are close to water and in my area a chimney may or may not be there..... bigger sites like large farms and such around the war and after will have well holes and the houses usually sit on the well drained areas aong the sides of the road's...

The reason being about the wells is usually the first settlers into the county would not have a well digger available so the next logical choice was to stay close to the creek and stream's or spring head's...later on as the county expaned and thrieved usually buy the 1850's the second generation houses are built (My area was created in 1830 from indian land's) and are better bigger nicer and in a local of choosing instead of neccesity...so then a well can be dug...Well diggiing is done by a hired person usually ...and these houses will have a better type chimney and maybe even red clay fired brick's.used some time's...

Sites are out ther though Steve I promise you that...sometimes they are just hard to locate without alot of legwork...

Keith




Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 04:26AM by Keith Southern.

good write ups keith and Steve. Very observant about the iron edge sound to iron objects. mostof my square nails come in around 27-28,so I most often run at 29 on the tone break. And i have found that many cool iron relics like pick tips and horseshoes come in at mid thirtys to 40 and stay solid. Steve,have you tried the 5inch in the nails yet? I love the 5x10,but in the thick stuff,i have found the 5incher with sensitivity cranked up high really finds the good stuff. Have fun!! Ray

Ray --

I hear you, on the bigger iron like horseshoes coming in right at the top of the "iron range." I've noticed some of that, too. You say most of your square nails come in around 27-28 -- you don't have problems with them reading much higher, mimicing a good target, at least a good bit of the way around as you circle the target?

No, I haven't tried the 5" yet, in the iron. I used the 5" when I was hunting nuggets on my friend's gold claim, but not in the relic field...sounds like it may be worth giving it a shot, too, in the iron...

Steve

havent had too much problems with the square nails Steve. Im in the motherload of California,and most read a very consistant 27-28. The bent ones get me,and some of the big ones go into the low 30s. For me,I have had the best luck with the 5inch and running it where it just starts too chatter...almost as high as the sensitivity will go. I should mention,i have been working the same 3 sites...havent hunted alot of new areas. Tomorrow I am hiking into a spot I havent been to since summer,so if I notice any changes I will post. Ray

Keith --

I missed your earlier reply about the "sad iron" and stuff until just now...

VERY interesting history! I can't believe they actually put coals inside a hollowed-out iron...amazing history lesson, thanks!

As for the "lack of sites," I hear you, and understand. I guess the reason I say that, is that here in central Oklahoma, there were VERY few folks, aside from Native American tribes, VERY few, prior to April of 1889 (when this part of Oklahoma was opened for "white" settlement.) During the 1889 Land Run, folks claimed quarter-sections (160 acres) of land, which then became farms and what-have-you. But, my point is, even the earliest homesteads (of which there were relatively few -- given only four families per square mile at most, in rural areas) -- only date to mid-1889 at the EARLIEST. When I used to live back in PA, it would have made MUCH more sense to learn to search for these old homesteads -- as the oldest ones there would date up to 100 years EARLIER than those here. So, that's more of what I was referring to when I talked about a "lack of hunting spots" with old square nails...

That being said, I have had it in my mind lately to try and acquire some access to farmland, and then just roam with my GB Pro until I hit a concentration of iron -- alerting me to the existence of a prior building...

Thanks for the info on locating old home sites...fascinating info. It's always great, in my opinion, when you just start talking; it's like an encyclopedia of historical information just comes pouring out...THANK YOU!

Ray --

I can't understand why I have so much issue with falsing square nails, and some others -- including yourself -- do not (unless it is due to what Keith said earlier -- that the older square nails are different; the site I have the issues with the square nails on, is an early 1850s site, so maybe that's the difference...)

Anyway, I'm interested to hear how you do at this new site, whether the nails behave differently, or not...

Steve

not sure Steve...my sites date same...try the 5 and see if that helps

Good thread here Steveg

and

as I've said all along

the way you're describing the Gold Bug/G2 in how it operates, separates, etc. is EXACTLY why I've said all along that IF I didn't have/couldn't afford an XP Deus

I'd definitely buy another Gold Bug/G2 for iron work as they are very precise in working the iron

they can also be set up to coin hunt in parks/on home sites etc (got that tip from DeathRay) after I had been using the Gold Bug for a while about a yr ago and then put it to use myself

they are very versatile machines, light, easy to use, and laser like in cutting thru iron/trash :-)

after you get really good with it/used to it

you may wanna consider getting the 13" Ultimate Coil for it to use on sites with less trash and/or in areas you clean of all the surface finds down to 8" or so and when the 5x10 or 11" don't seem to be finding much anymore ---

it'll get you another 2 to 3" inches in depth and it's very sensitive for being a larger coil :-)

HH, good luck and keep us posted

MRH
Wayne



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 08:50PM by MichiganRelicHunter.

WOW, Wayne -- another 2-3" in depth, with the 13" Ultimate? REALLY?

If that's the case, then I really will look into getting one of those...that would be almost like adding "boost process" to this unit... WOW.

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WOW, Wayne -- another 2-3" in depth, with the 13"
> Ultimate? REALLY?
>
> If that's the case, then I really will look into
> getting one of those...that would be almost like
> adding "boost process" to this unit... WOW.
>
> Steve

Yes sir

it depends on your dirt/soil though

if you don't have highly mineralized soil (salt, black sand, iron, etc.) you will easily get at least a 1" increase in depth over the Fisher 11" coil on higher conductive targets like silver & copper. On the lower conductive nickel, gold, brass, etc. the increase will be more like 2" in depth using the 13" Ultimate coil --- if your soil is neutral/very low in mineral content - you could gain more

but

they're not for extremely iron/trash infested sites though - you'll want to use it where the ground is at least a bit cleaner ---- whether that's just because it's that way to begin with and/or if it's because you've hunted a place over and over removing all of the shallow/er targets and some of the trash so that the coil doesn't pick up on multiple targets at the same time too often (although) it will still have better separation than most because of the machine it's being used on :-)

HH

I will vouch for the ultimate, much more sensitive along with improved depth! My go to coil until the ground becomes "too infested", then the 5". I hear good things about the Nel 5", probably bettter than stock 5.

Well, MichiganRelicHunter, that's a pretty good endorsement of the 13" Ultimate. Yeah, I fully hear you about the "cleaner" ground, but I do have spots that are that way. Obviously, it would not be the "go-to" for working in the nails, but in cleaner areas, another 1-2" beyond the 11" stock coil would be AMAZING...

Los Alamos -- you too? I may be sold on looking for an Ultimate.

Also, I will try the 5" coil next time I'm in the square nails and find myself getting alot of "good-sounding" ID numbers on those darn things, as happens so often; I will be interested to see if that changes anything...

This is really a big issue for me, because it's the biggest hindrance to doing what guys like Keith and NASA-Tom have stated on here in the past about setting a precise "tone break" -- and like what you discussed about your nails being in the upper 20s. It makes complete theoretical sense to me, to see where the nails are hitting on a given day, at a given site (say 27-28), and then setting your tone break right at the edge. HOWEVER, this is something that I've never been able to put into practical use "in the field," because of all the "false" high-toning/high ID numbers which square nails give me, as I rotate around the target. It makes the whole concept of "find out where the square nails are reading" simply a moot point, for me. I can't figure out why I'm having this issue, while many others say they do not...the only thing I can perhaps point to is my red (irony) clay soil; Keith acknowledged that he sometimes has these issues, and he also has (I'm guessing) some of that red dirt. Could it be a soil issue?

I really want to figure this out...because like I said -- in a theoretical sense, the idea of "setting the tone break just above where the nails are all IDing" makes total sense, for the most precise unmasking.

Steve



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2013 10:27PM by steveg.

The 5" just doesn't go that deep but here in the "high desert" small objects especially, don't sink that deep. I've found a lot of old coins pretty much on the "surface". The 13" Ultimate, being double D, is no slouch, even in the trash!

Steve,

I'm glad to your stick-to-it attitude prevails. It'll pay off in a big way. Right now.......... you will deny this........ but ...... in time ..... you will lower your Disc to '30' in these exact same sites. Yes..... there will be more 'good' audio with iron targets........ increasing the 'good audio' report to a larger percentage with these iron targets (including/especially square nails).... as you rotate your body around the target (whilst sweeping coil) ....... yet......... your ears (and internal subconscious mental calibration) will automatically calibrate to the new form of communication.......... ultimately, resulting with even better unmasking in iron.

Stick-to-it!!!

Tom just said it! Ok bud,I just got back from that site,and i had a total of 6square nails that fooled me. One was bent 90degrees,Two where real big,and the others just got me. I did get plenty of ones that false a little one way,but where easily distinguished. I ran it 3/4sensitivity and disc on 29. Ground was super hot in spots(gold mining camp) and tons of nails,along withthe much worse depression era tin cans. Unfortunately,not much good stuff coming out of this site for me anymore,best find was pieces of old opium tin.Ray

NASA-Tom --

OK, I hear what you are saying...I think. In time, what it sounds like you are saying is that I'll be lowering my disc to knock out the NON-falsing nails (which should be upper 20s or so, and lower), and then learning to deal with the "falses" by what will eventually become an almost "intuitive" sense of "no, that's a false," and "yes, that's a non-ferrous target next to a nail." I think I can possibly picture getting to that point, but it's a long way off, in the future.

deathray -- THANK YOU for that report, and it lines up nicely with what NASA-Tom is implying. That is, that running the disc./tone break lower (around 30), and yet recognizing -- due to experience -- the different behaviors of a "false good tone/ID" and a "real" good tone/ID, will allow few nails to be dug, and yet still sorting out the non-ferrous hits amongst the nails. You dug six, with one bent and two very large ones. That makes logical sense to me, and lines up with my (limited) experience. I recall from the prior time I was hunting in the square nails, digging bent ones and very large ones, more often than the others. It's good to hear, though, that three other "normal" ones fooled you enough that you dug them. This all suggests to me that I'm not WAY out in left field, in terms of the falses and such that I'm dealing with, but just not experienced enough to "mentally filter" the falses out with appreciable accuracy yet. You obviously can -- you say you heard lots of falsing from some of the nails, from one direction -- but ignored those ones. For me, I don't yet know how to tell if that just might be a non-ferrous target that's ALMOST masked, but just giving a hint that it's there. BUT -- I think I can get there, in time. While you may not have made the finds you were hoping for today, your hunt DID help further my "education" on this subject, so maybe you could view it as not a TOTAL bust...

As I alluded to earlier, and this is admittedly surprising to me, but I'm feeling strangely drawn toward the nail pits, right now. I actually WANT to go find one, and tackle the challenge. While I LOVE my Explorer, its behavior in iron is totally different. There are similarities -- in that I set my iron mask on the Explorer to eliminate (null) most iron, and then have learned through experience how to recognize and ignore the "falsing" iron that creeps through the disc and tries to mimic a good target. So, the basic premise with respect to how to deal with iron is obviously similar to what you guys are describing with the GB Pro. HOWEVER, the "nulling" has always sort of "unnerved me," from the perspective that it leaves me with a feel that I'm missing alot of masked targets. And I'm sure I am. With the GB Pro, though, it's different; hard to describe, but again -- it feels SO different; it feels like using a scalpel. I'm sure, just like with the Explorer, that I'm missing plenty of masked targets, but the feel of this unit is such that it has begun to give me confidence that I can dive right into the iron and sort of begin to "see" what's going on in the ground...all the rapid-fire grunts almost "paint a picture" of each nail individually, and then -- when you hear even a hint of a "good" tone, I'm learning that you really NEED to check that out more closely; even with limited experience thus far, that machine is showing me that when it HINTS that there's something else down there in the nails, more often than not, THERE IS... It is VERY impressive, and is actually -- like I said -- giving me the confidence, and desire, to want to go and SEEK OUT the "bed of nails" sites...

Steve

Here's a mind blower!

Once you get used to using one machine in the nail beds -- you'll want to try others -

I took my E-Trac out to one of the sites I've been hunting (full of iron) just before the snow hit here but using the HUGE 10x14 excelerator coil and ran it wide open NO disc. whatsoever
(talk about the machine gun effect and hearing EVERYTHING)!

but

I managed to pull a nice 1830s/40s button and an 1860s store card out of the thick of the iron by knowing what to listen for, and going really slow...

I use it on all of the sites I hunt after I can't find anything else with my Deus ---- usually I'll put the 4.5x7" DD coil on it and run it that way but when the weeds or clover/etc. are high - sometimes I have to use a large/r coil in order to work thru them and penetrate the ground with any sort of depth --- works for me ;-) very heavy though and hard to muscle thru the weeds/clover with -- makes for a sore arm to say the least!

Steve.......... with your exceptionally high/intuitive/intelligence......... your learning-curve is/will be faster than your predictions.............. as you are hunting carpets of nails with all of the 'correct/exacting' intelligence (and mindset)......... ,,,,,,,,,,,, soon............. the prideful payoff (and 'finds' payoff) will begin. Then........... the world will seem nearly completely 'unhunted'........ and pridefully challenging/fun. Once again............ your data is exacting. Only real-world experience is (now) needed. Only.

MichiganRelicHunter --

Running an E-Trac with a huge coil and wide-open/no disc would certainly be a noisy experience; that being said, it's impressive that you were able to pull a few good targets out, using that type of setup, and after reducing the detectable non-ferrous targets to the point of almost being depleted. That's really a testimony to you knowing that E-Trac and what it's telling you.

That, in my mind, would NOT be the way to LEARN to hunt in nails -- as that to me would lengthen the learning curve, as compared to a faster/more precise unit. BUT, once you know what's going on -- I can see how different machines in the hands of someone who knows how to hunt the nail beds would manage to hint at targets that other machines would miss...

NASA-Tom -- thanks for the very kind words, and the continual encouragement. I can guarantee this -- were it not for this forum, there's NO WAY I'd be even trying this. All the help and intelligence here, freely shared for the benefit of those less experienced, makes all the difference in the world. THANK you!

MichiganRelicHunter's point, about using different machines, raises a question in my mind. I recall reading that machines with different operating frequencies behave differently in the nails, but right now, I can't remember what -- in general -- some of those differences are. I know that the high-frequency units have certain tendencies, while lower-frequency units have others, with respect to iron. Can someone remind me what those differences are? I know that generally higher frequency machines will hunt small, lower-conductive targets better than lower frequency units, with lower frequency units a better choice for high conductors, but I'm asking more about what about their behavior differences are in an irony relic-hunting type of application? Does a GB Pro, at 19 kHz, have some advantage or disadvantage in this type of hunting, DUE TO FREQUENCY, as compared to say a 15 kHz standard F75? I presume this type of knowledge is especially important if hunting with say a Deus, where you have several different frequencies to choose from...

THANKS!

Steve

Hi Steve,I believe I am pretty much on par with you as far as learning to hunt in iron...im by no means on the level of Tom,Keith or Wayne. I read your response on the other post pertaining to this...and its funny,because in some ways I am the polar opposite. I really dont think enough about the hows or whys,and am the most unorganized person ever.But this thread made me think a little more while I was detecting the other day,and I made an effort to pay better attention so I could report back to you. Those one way and partial falses...guess I never really paid much mind to it,just knew it was iron,but didnt really consider a "false"that would fool me. But the diggin is easy right now,so many of those i dug into just to make sure,or at least see if a good signal would appear after i opened up the soil. Good thread man!

I have pretty good luck hunting around old house sites with a 20+ year old Tesoro Bandido equiped with a small coil. Either a 7" concentric or 5.75" concentric.
When the small ferrous trash gets serious I will put on the 4" concentric coil. I usually ground balance well away from the house sight, set sensitivity around 7 or 8.
This 'ol gal runs pretty quiet at min. disc. with occational spits and sputters but you can hear the good tones through the spits and sputters.

I relic hunt in south central Kansas and old abandoned homesteads are my favorite places to hunt, with the occational torn down old church and old one room school houses.
I've tried several different makes and models, nothing I have ever tried has beaten the Bandido. Believe it or not, I have found some nice eagle and cavalry buttons in these old places.
This detector passes the nail board test with ease with the standard 8" concentric coil. I would love to take this outfit on a vacation to new england and hunt some pounded cellar holes.

welcome Hombre! I have an original bandido and love it. Havent tried any small coils yet.

Thanks for the welcome deathray,

I have been a lurker on this forum for quite a while, thought I would join in the "un-masking" topic as this is the type of hunting I do.
Comparing metal detector performance is an eye opener, just a short hunt or two in the nails soon tells the story. I do not bash other
detectors, I just use what works for me.

If you like the Bandido, you ought to try out the smaller concentric coils, the 4" and 5.75" are still in production. They quit producing the 7" several years ago.