All Metal

Wayne, welcome to the forum.

That is the depth number (12 plus) I'm looking at when pinpointing (pp) over the target while centering the coil over it....not the ID number. The ID numbers will bounce on a deep coin.
When you pinpoint (pulling the toggle trigger), the numbers will be a pro stadium ballpark depth.... If the depth number reads 13",, the coin, when dug, will be shallower, measured with a rule at 10", give or take.

He says ID mode..(ID's with tones and or numbers) meaning discriminate mode. Many units unlike the f-75, do not ID in all metal..... ID means identification. Re-read the posts. Sometimes I may not explain very well, verbally or on paper....it's a gift.

Keep at it with your f-75, keep asking questions...it will come to you.
Hope I didn't add to the confusion.

Thank you, Tom and Ozzie for your kind replies. Yes, Tom I have read the thread you mentioned as well as compilations 1 and 2, and anything else related to the F75 here and else where. I've read them dozens of times and will continue to do so. Like I said, lots of valuable info here, but that has to be put into practice until it becomes my own.
Whew, ozzie, I'm glad you straightened that out for me. I don't mind bouncing numbers; that's why I carry a shovel. But so far, most of them have been old shotgun brasses and modern bullets.

When the F75 rings so loud and strong on the smallest of targets such as .22 bullets and short casings and minute bits of wire at good depth, i.e., 6 to 9 inches, I suspect it will ring just as nicely on the deep somewhat larger targets I am after.
But I confess to having trouble deciphering the differences between the tone and "shapes" of the sounds it makes on trash items and the good ones. Duration of the tones, as Tom points out, is something I need to watch more closely.

I hunted a beat-to-death CW camp recently and found several shotgun brasses up to 7 inches deep, and several modern bullets, 22 to 45 cal, 4 to 6 inches deep. I dug everything except <20 and targets that rang with the coil held high.
So I'm thinking either I did not cover a button or bullet with my coil, or I did and it was masked and/or rang <20. I'm encouraged to find the nonferrous items because if they have not been dug, then the minis and buttons could still be there.
But I am left to wonder why I could not find them?
One possibility is to start digging all the <20 targets to 1) see what shows up and 2) start to unmask hidden targets. Are there other courses of action for this site?

My advice would be to "dig to learn". Pay attention to each target and how the f-75 reacts to each one, take mental notes or if you have to, write it down. Like you stated 'make it your own'....may take hundreds to thousands of hours, and you can still learn after that. One great thing about this hobby....the learning never stops.

You will get more in-depth advice from the better and more experienced guys on this forum...especially the relic hunters. I'm strictly a old coin hunter with buttons, relics and jewelry a byproduct, so to speak. Any civil war battles are a half a days drive from me and the revolutionary war stuff is deep...I'm in prime 'old coin' area.

Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question, except for the one you don't ask. But, we do reserve the right to bust you chops a little. lol

WTG ozzie!

Thanks for sharing the all-metal approach, After reading what you've experienced many here will try and duplicate your success.

Congrats!
Paul

Thanks Paul. My 'share' may need a little tweaking but it's a start.

WTG ozzie!

Thanks for sharing the all-metal approach, After reading what you've experienced many here will try and duplicate your success.

Congrats!
Paul
Reply Quote Report

I agree Paul, though I'm still trying to understand the all metal approach to hunting w the LTD. I've been reading all the posts, it's confusing. Daniel stated he does not rely on the meter at all, though in all metal it's all 1 tone, I'm sure some are wondering how can you tell the difference between fe and non fe?

I do know from hunting w Tom, and digging pits, using the F75 in (((all metal)))) with no headphones, he'll be digging and I'll be scanning the pile w the F75 watching the meter and he knows when I've hit a Non Fe target before I even say anything because his ears are trained to it so well (though his eyes arnt as good as mine as I'm the one who he has check the fine print on stuff!) So I know it IS possible.


Let's keep this post goin!

Aaron

I think it comes down to a persons hearing ability. My eardrums have taken a beating. We have talked about this in the past. If I had a set of headphones with an equalizer built in, I may be able to adjust the sounds nuances for my hearing...I don't know. I believe we mentioned a ID graph sound recognition, built into a detector. Maybe the Russian Signum does that with the hodograph.

So for hunting in all metal mode, I'm glad I can rely on the the detectors numbers and gauges and secondly, the sounds I hear. When using disc mode I go by tones, their length and loudness, changing angles and mainly digging. My hearing isn't to the point of having to wear aids, unless of course you ask my lovely wife.

Are the time sigs off? it's before 8pm here and the time reads 11:52



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2014 12:29AM by ozzie.

I've never been good with sound, and my hearing isn't the greatest. Probably from not wearing headphones when I used a string trimmer 8hrs a day for work back in the 80s.

For me to be successful at all metal hunting would just take a lot of time/ear training...something I don't have.

Aaron

All Metal mode = It's all in the audio.

((( ..... and my hearing is quite sub-par. Too much open header/high powered cars, aircraft, rockets/spacecraft, guns, youth loud music/concerts...... etc....... yet; once again......... All Metal = it's all in the audio )))

...YOU....loud concerts??!

That's news to me..... : )

An ole timer by the name of "tinfoil" told me he could tell, by the sound of a nail in the ground using the F75 in motion all metal mode. I've tried to acquire this skill, but can't seem to get it. I still look at the ID to see what it is. But he says he can tell by the sound. Anyone else here can tell by the sound.

When 'Tinfoil' speaks, you listen.

HH
Mike

Yes. It is actually pretty easy. At one time, I had a couple of videos on the Fisher website showing this sound and the differences in it. But I took everything down when I ran into some rude know it all types. I taught a couple of classes on this subject at the DIV hunts in Culpeper, VA regarding the F75.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> All Metal mode = It's all in the audio.

Tom, I'm sure your hundreds or thousands of hours afield have helped you define what the audio is telling you, but have you developed any aids or training exercises you might recommend to further one's intelligent audio comprehension?
Is there a need, and market, for an audio training file that is detector (model) specific and that could be purchased/acquired by download?
I already have both your land and water detecting DVDs.

And regarding your comment above, doesn't it apply even more to the Discrimination mode (which I find more confusing, audio wise, than AMM mode)?

Wayne,

VERY valid questions/concerns and tuition request. I have answered exactly this in some deeply buried past thread(s). I have tried multiple times to figure out a way to impart/convey 'audio nuances // audio intelligence' .......... either in written words (for this forum) ....... or in captured video. It is too difficult. SOME written words/data can be conveyed; yet, not to the extent of bulk/aggregate level of understanding. I can say this about all metal mode:

1. The deeper the target, the weaker the audio response.
1a. The smaller the target, the weaker the audio response.
2. The smaller the target, the shorter the audio length duration.
3. The larger the target, the longer the audio length duration.
4. A round or spherical target will give a linear/consistent audio length duration while rotating your body around the target..... whilst continuously sweeping target.
5. A elongated (not round/not spherical) target will give a "varying in audio duration length" report as you rotate your body around the target.... whilst continuously sweeping target.
6. Once a target is located........ there is a (signal strength) linear audio ramp-down when you raise the coil at varying heights above the surface of the ground........ in direct proportion to mass/weight/size of detected target. (Experience/skillset required...... for intelligence gathering///target ID data collection).
7. With any brand detector that has a VDI/ID readout whilst in all metal mode....... the VDI numbers will vary in all metal mode.....as they will linearly vary in the ID/Disc mode. Yet, more confusion will ensue when multi-tones are introduced.
8. A Fe (ferrous) target will shift pinpoint location (change location) whilst rotating your body around the target........ especially the more elongated or odd-shaped the ferrous target. It is also common for a Fe target to give a double audio report.
9. A tiny fleck/flake of rust in close proximity of intended/detected target .... can throw all this data out the window.

This is only a 'start' of all metal audio training. It is too difficult to convey things like: A nickel 7" deep will report with a 196 milliSecond audio length duration...... with a certain/prescribed signal strength/amplitude. A piece of aluminum can slaw (also at 7" deep) the diameter of a nickel,,,, about the conductivity of a nickel..... but the thickness of a sheet of paper...... will report with a audio length duration of 189 milliSeconds...... and with a certain/prescribed signal strength/amplitude.
Another example = A nickel at 8" ............. vs ............. a lead BB at 1". Both have similar conductivities. How do you describe the linearity of signal strength ramp-down whilst starting to raise the coil to varying heights above the surface of the ground........ of either target. Amplitude, VCO, ID-bounce..... etc............

All Metal mode unique nuance audio intelligence is difficult to convey in words. . . . in all of its splended glory; yet, sooo much can be gained from it........ with the conclusive end-resultant being: a much wealthier/prideful lining in your pockets. Yes....... all of this data (in most forms) does convert/transition over to the Disc/ID side of the house.

Awesome info and post Tom, thanks for time/trouble.

Aaron

.......and if anyone feels this data belongs on the Rcpt Ack of F75 LTD Prototype thread (due to 'consolidation' purposes)........ feel free to cut-n-paste.

Done

Ok........... and probably a good move for all.

Only because this data pertains to all brands of detectors, I posted it independently; yet, the F75 LTD/SE is Flagship status for all-metal mode of operation. (And some other modes of operation).

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok........... and probably a good move for all.
>
> Only because this data pertains to all brands of
> detectors, I posted it independently; yet, the F75
> LTD/SE is Flagship status for all-metal mode of
> operation. (And some other modes of operation).


I continue to think how funny that is considering how long the LTD has been out now.....


Aaron

..........and I still use a 25 year old platform (CZ)........... and certainly not because of any sentimental reason.