XP Deus: Observations after the first 100 hours

XP Deus: Observations after the first 100 hours

I began my pursuit of this hobby approx. twenty years ago with a Tesoro Toltec 100. A year or two later I switched to a Fisher CZ-6A and have used only a CZ-6A and CZ-3D over the last 18 years. 

In June I began looking at the newer machines as I wanted to add another detector to my arsenal. Since I knew nothing about the digital  platforms I sought counsel from the master himself, NASA-Tom Dankowski via a one hour paid training session. I highly recommend seeking Tom's advice prior to making a major purchase such as a new high end detector. Thank you again Tom for all of your help. Based on our conversation and some physical limitations, I chose the XP Deus. 

I now have around 100 hours on the Deus and I'm ready to make a few observations. This is an fine machine, combining power and an amazing ability to work in real-world iron situations. After using the Deus with the 9" stock coil for approx. 75 hours in the 'Basic 1' program around parks and schools, I returned to a circa 1910 home site. I worked this site with my CZ-3D two months ago and assumed I had cleaned it out.  While using the Deus in the Basic 1 program I immediately noticed that on most swings of the Deus coil the left side of the horseshoe lit up completely, alerting me to the presence of iron everywhere in the small (30' X 35') yard. Over the next three hours I proceeded to pull 16 Wheaties and three silver Rosie's from this yard. I then switched over to the factory program 'Deus Fast' and pulled five more Wheaties and a Mercury dime from this yard. Total finds from this old yard were 21 Wheaties, 4 Silver dimes, a sterling ladies brooch and a sterling silver US Navy Anchor & Rope chest pin. All coin targets were recovered from 2" to 7" depths and all gave good dig-me audio signals. Keep in mind that all these items came from the same yard I thought I had cleaned out with my CZ-3D!

Regarding my Deus and depth: Proper ground balancing is critical. The first few hours on the Deus I used the Basic 1 (really good program) and Basic 2 programs and left the machine in the default (90) GB setting. It didn't take long for me to notice I had no depth beyond 5". In my very dry, hard packed clay soil with moderate mineralization pumping or manual Ground  Balancing seems to work best, especially offset slightly negative (1 to 3 points). GB'd properly, even in my difficult soil conditions I have dug Wheaties and silver Merc's in the 7 to 9" range and last weekend dug my first V Nickel (1910) at a depth of approx. 8". 

With respect to the visual ID meter on my Deus it seems to be more accurate at depths up to 7" on higher conductive targets (dimes, Wheaties and quarters) than on nickels. In fact, the V Nickel at 8" read from 53 to 88. Once pinpointed, the ID on that nickel gave a consistent 88 VDI reading, like a wheat cent. That particular V nickel is red in color; as red as any copper coin I have ever seen and in the ground  it ID'd as a copper coin, however once recovered it read 53 just like a modern nickel.  Very curious.

I am also able to comment on the Deus vs. E-Trac debate as my hunting partner for the last three weeks runs an E-Trac with a 13" Ultimate coil. We have spent hours comparing both detectors using in-ground, undug targets. It is also important to note that he has approx. two and a half years of experience with his E-Trac (versus my two months on the Deus!) and he is HIGHLY proficient with that machine. This was my first exposure to an E-Trac and I must admit that in skilled hands  it is an incredibly deep, accurate machine.  His detector was considerably deeper at open parks and ball fields  (he had clean dig-me VDI and audio signals) vs. my Deus with the 9" coil. However the performance gap between the machines narrowed considerably when the Deus was outfitted with the 11" coil, ground balanced properly and running Sabisch's High Performance Coin program (Reactivity 1, Silencer 0 or 1). We have yet to hunt in a trashy or iron laced site together but we both suspect that when we do the Deus will outperform the E-Trac in such a scenario. To sum it up, if all you are a looking for raw depth, with audio and VDI intelligence at depth,  get the E-Trac, the 13" coil and a shoulder harness.  Otherwise consider the Deus and outfit it with the 9" or 11" coil, depending on your intended hunt sites. 

In conclusion I'd like to state that learning to operate the Deus was not easy for me. As Keith Southern says, there is a lot of intelligence in the Deus audio but I didn't have the digital skill set or experience to make much sense of it. After 100 hours I am now at the stage where I am learning the nuances of the audio. So, if you choose a Deus make sure and give yourself time to learn what the detector is saying.  

Thanks for reading and happy hunting! 

PS. I would love to hear from veteran Deus users regarding the jumpy nickel VDI readings past 6" inches in depth. Does your Deus jump around on deep nickels? 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2014 04:40PM by tnduke.

Good post...thanks for your input!

Thanks for the post. Very informative. Glad to hear from another die hard CZ user switching to the Deus for additional target finds in iron type conditions.

As far as the nickel readings go, did you try switching to Deus Fast ( program 3) when getting those jumpy signals. Since Deus Fast uses the 18kHz frequency, it may give a better target signature/ID as opposed to Basic 1, which uses the 12 kHz frequency, on nickels ( and other targets in that conductive signature).

Looks like the only difference between the two is the iron level and reactivity settings.

In reading all the good posts about the new 11 inch coil, seems I gotta get one now...they are just so darn expensive ! But I think it will be more than beneficial for hunting the beaches come Fall.

If I was going to hunt the beach I would have an 11 inch coil. Don't be afraid of the size for dirt either. The 11 inch will have you saying WOW just like the 9 inch. It will hunt right up there with any detector out there. Yes some are deeper and some ID better. But for all around hunting the 11" and Deus do very well together.

Thanks Therover61 for the suggestion. I have not tried switching to Dues Fast or 18 kHz. I will try that on my next jumpy, deep nickel signal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2014 05:27PM by tnduke.

Very good writeup Duke..

The DEUS is first and foremost built to unmask/handle iron...

there's Tricks to get more depth...but the I.D. at depth suffers..but the ferrous/non ferrous I.D. at depth is very good..

That's why the DEUS is a tool to be used where it excels.its core is Audio not visual I.D.

It can hold its on in comparison against other high power units in depth with offset ground and such..but you also find you'll dig more deep iron thinking it's good compared to Say a FBS or a B.P. .mode F.T.product..so there's trade offs..

A year ago I would of said get a GMP instead of a DEUS for unmasking.And I still feel the gmp has a slight depth advantage but the 3.2 DEUS has in my opinion better intelligent audio when compared to a GMP or a 2.0 DEUS..And for unmasking I now prefer a 3.2 ..for Depth I like other units...I especially like B.P. modes...

The DEUS in my opinion needs a BP mode...

Keith

tnduke,
On the 1910 site, can you describe the setup of the CZ? coil size, disc settings if any, etc? Also, did you find a lot of coins with the CZ there when you hunted it on the previous occasion? Same depth range? If they each found relatively the same amount of coins, would be different than if you got 200 with the CZ previously. I am trying to get a feel for more comparisons.

Thanks.

Sorry, thinking out loud not trying to hijack.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2014 06:14AM by Pasttom.

Hi Keith: Thanks for your comments and I also want to thank you for your videos. I have found them extremely helpful.


Hi Rod-PA. My CZ3D has the 8" coil and the settings at the old home site were as follows: Disc at 2, Sens at 4.8, GB at 6. With the CZ I found 5 Wheaties (up to 7" in depth) and 6 or 8 other clad coins at that old farm home. I remember being very disappointed and thinking that someone must have already hunted the site. The thought never crossed my mind that iron might be masking the coins from my CZ. I also want to stress that my OP was not intended to be an indictment of the CZ. Over the years I have found thousands & thousands of coins with my two CZ's and I love my current CZ3D.
Needless to say, this was an eye opening experience.

tnduke,

What would be interesting is going back to that spot ( or some other spots where you hunted with the 3D with those same settings), and mark off targets hit with the Deus that are deeper and on the fringe of possibly being iron or a good target masked by iron.

Then run the 3D in 0 discrimination setting and see how the 3D reacts. Does it hit the target as a low tone only, or a low/high tone or low/mid tone.

Just wondering if the discrimination setting of 2 that you are using, hinders those fringe targets that may be masked by iron.

VERY good report....... and performance/results are perfectly in line with (more common than suspected/expected) nail infested site(s).
It sounds to me like you did not hunt this area in 18Khz. If you have not........... it will be another entire eye-opener if you select 18Khz and Reactivity 2 (GMP mode)........... and hit that site all over again. That is................ once you complete the learning-curve for these settings.

You "thought" you cleaned the site out with a CZ.
NOW........ you "think" you (now) have cleared most coins out of this site (due to Deus utilization). In reality....... you may have cleaned out (up to) 5% of the coins out of this site. This is how bad masking truly is. Digging (and sifting) pits............ and hundreds of them........... can really paint a large/overall aggregate picture of some stunning data.

There are a few properties I'd love to set up a grill and a coffee maker..... with help, dig pits till the sun goes down..... wake up and do it again.

Ozzie I will take a day off for that......

Tom, Thanks for your comments and suggested settings. I will use these settings on my next visit to this site.

Great write up tnduke. I was in the same boat as you a few years ago a diehard CZ user. I had 14 years on a CZ then in 2008 decided to try something different. I ended up with a F75 and all I could say was WOW!!!, The ability of the F75. To work in and through iron at the time blew my mind. I would imagine the GMP and Deus are even somewhat better then the F75/T2's.
I had a V nickel last winter ID in upper 70's and low 80's on the F75. The dirt was iron looking. The chunks of iron just corroded to nothing I guess. If I would take a shovel and flip the dirt over you would see pieces of nails and other iron chucks. So maybe that had something to do with the high VDI number ???
HH
Corey

Very nice report, tnduke. Thanks.
To what do you attribute the finds of the Deus that were not found when using the CZ?
Was it reactivity, i.e., target separation? Was it greater clarity/less noise in audio? Was it more accurate and/or stable VDI? Was it that you had signals where previously there had been none, or were the signals perhaps just more favorable to digging?
Was your swing speed with the Deus the same as with the CZ, or faster or slower?
I'm just trying to get a sense of HOW the Deus helped you discover those additional targets.
Thanks again for your report.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I can say that the Deus is one of the best machines in iron and Tom said you would never know how much masking there it in the ground. And I think in the USA we can find some ways to really play with the programing to get better depth. I wish I had a test garden where I could play around with the Deus and learn how to push it to a better depth. Remember when hunting in iron you don't need a lot of depth and you have to remember that old iron will leave flakes in the dirt that can cause a lot of problems and when it gets damp or wet it must get worse. So when you start to clean an area you may want to try ajusting the deus for less iron and more depth....=== test garden just a thought

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Hi Corey, Thanks for your kind comments. With respect to the V Nickel VDI, I always scan the hole once the target is retrieved and in this case it was clean. Before I dug that V I had my E-Trac wielding partner check that target and he responded by telling me 'Jumpy Deep Nickel'. So the E-Trac read it as a nickel and the Deus read it as copper. Either way, it was a 'dig-me' at 8" deep!  Regarding the F75, it was on my short list. I really like that machine.

I have a pic of that red nickel I would like to post. Can someone tell me how post a pic? Thanks.

Since you covered the yard the second time in Deus Fast, you hit it with 18khz...thats the default frequency for Deus fast. I would try bumping the reactivity on the Deus fast prgram from its default of 3 to 5. Users are saying that the depth loss drop between 2 to 3 is considerable, but from 3 to 4 or 5 is not much. Just a thought

Hi ncwayne. Thanks for your questions. All I can do is report what happened at this site: my beloved CZ gave me no signal on the coins the Deus found. The Deus did. As for HOW, I leave that question to more qualified individuals.

Hi Wayne. Thinking about your questions last Saturday while hunting a school yard with the Deus. This school property dates back to the 1940's and has been in continuous use for 70+ years so it is FULL of old (iron) and modern (aluminum) trash. The soil was extremely dry, hard-packed clay based soil.  Final tally for Saturday's four hour hunt was 60 coins including three Wheaties (up to 7" deep) and 17 nickels (record nickel day for me). Several of these coins had trash (mostly canslaw) right next to or in the same hole. On one occasion there was a junk bracelet at 4" down (ID'd as foil out of the ground) and right next to it, two inches deeper, was a nice Wheatie. On these occasions with co-located trash the Deus separated the targets so well that I had solid VDI coin readings and the audio rang out a clear 'dig-me' signal.

At that old farm home site there was iron EVERYWHERE: whole nails, small pieces of nails, bolts, nuts, farm implement pieces, 'blobs' of metal and iron piping. In fact there was so much iron present that I had difficulty using my Propointer, as many times it was sounding off in every direction of the hole during recovery. And yet the Deus gave me 'dig-me' audio and VDI on the Wheaties and silver dimes. The machine is so fast and separates so well, even when set on Reactivity of 2 or 3 (out of 5), that it feels like it is seeing through the iron. 

I hope this helps.

Duke

Here is a link to a video on understanding 'Deus Speak' on deep targets. I pulled three more silver coins (1-SLQ, 2-SL Dimes) out of very dry hard-packed clay soil last Sunday with my Deus. The silver Washington qtr. was only 6" deep and hit like thunder.  The dimes were between 7" and 8" deep and both sounded faint, with a tinge of iron in the audio similar to the third signal in this video at 3:20, described by Gary as 'Smooth, Ghosty'.  The VDI on both dimes was not useful as it ranged from no reading to 85 to 99. One of the dimes, a Mercury, was repeatable in one direction but was not repeatable at 90 degrees; that one turned out to be partly on edge. The other silver dime, a Rosie, was repeatable at 90 degrees but very, very faint in all directions.

I hope that other Deus users find this video as helpful as I did. Happy Hunting!

Video Title: XP Deus Deep Targets
By: garysdetecting.co.uk
[www.youtube.com]

Great posts, Duke. Lots of info there. Thank you very much.
And congrats on the nice finds you mention!

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

I have not yet had much time with my new Deus. Maybe 5 hours total in 2 places. Enough to know it feels really good in the hand. Readability of the display is quite good. Did find 3 wheaties in an area I'd covered very thoroughly with the F75. Two of them were within 10 inches of each other and only 5 feet from where I parked. Have only used the Program 1 so far. Much more "ear training" needed and more understanding of setup parameters.
I have not checked behind the Deus with another detector, target by target, but my first impression is that the Deus simply signals/finds targets where the F75Se and AT Pro have not. I've still a long ways to go in setting up the Deus to help me make better dig/no dig decisions. I'm still very much digging to learn at this point.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

"Digging to learn" is KEY.

Here is a picture of that red 1910 V nickel. This is the nickel mentioned in my OP.


PS. Thanks Keith for your thread a while back on posting pics. Worked like a charm!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 03:04PM by tnduke.