Best Detector For Discerning Small Shallow Targets From Large Deep Targets

It happens to me a lot with the hotter machines we have these days. I am trying to find that, faint, deep coin. I dig a plug, only to find a small bit of metal an inch into the top of the plug instead of deep in the bottom of the hole. It got me to thinking that maybe I need to go back to trying lower frequencies for deep coins. Any thoughts?

What you describe seems to happen on the fisher machines quite a bit. Get a small faint signal that sounds like a deep coin and its a small piece of foil or something real shallow. Out of all the detectors I have tried the Etrac seems to do the best job for me.

I agree, the Etrac seems best at doing that, especially with not digging foil like that. I have however dug many .22 shells that I thought were deep indians.......

Ever run a CZ with the volume in the 2-3 range ? Shallow targets will sound a lot louder than the deeper ones...and for deep silver and copper coin hunting, dig only the faint, mellow repeatable high tones.

Good to use a pair of headphones with separate volume controls too, so you can set them up to listen for the deep coins.

The modulated audio on a CZ is a plus when it comes to separating out the shallower garbage from the deeper targets than may be a deep coin. The VCO pin point button is also a valuable weapon in this type of hunting.

I think the 6.59KHz do a very good job on small targets that are not deep.

I know that this is not an answer to your question but in a way it does.

I like the UniProbe headphones with the built in PI probe for checking surface targets. It will get a faint signal on 5 inch dimes before I open the plug, it screams on surface targets down to 3 inches. I have had mine for 8 years, I don't leave home without them.

I forgot about the CZ's too. Like Therover said, if you run the audio on about 3 it will give a nice faint signal on deeper targets.

lower frequency and larger coil.

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever run a CZ with the volume in the 2-3 range ?
> Shallow targets will sound a lot louder than the
> deeper ones...and for deep silver and copper coin
> hunting, dig only the faint, mellow repeatable
> high tones.
>
> Good to use a pair of headphones with separate
> volume controls too, so you can set them up to
> listen for the deep coins.
>
> The modulated audio on a CZ is a plus when it
> comes to separating out the shallower garbage from
> the deeper targets than may be a deep coin. The
> VCO pin point button is also a valuable weapon in
> this type of hunting.


Actually, modulation is just what is causing the issue. A very deep coin is a very faint sound, just like a small target nearer the surface. Without modulation both targets would sound off loud, instead of both targets sounding off faint. Yeah, I have used a few CZs. One of my favorite all time detectors, and I sure wish for an updated version.

Steve,

Using a CZ as an example, running in discrimination mode 0, volume 2-3, sensitivity in a range where the unit is stable but can still hit a silver dime in the 7-8 inch range with a high tone, any smaller surface item will sound louder, or if it's a smaller piece of iron or foil, although it may sound just as faint as a deep silver/copper coin, will not have the same tone ID signature. The coin will be a high tone for the most part, whereas the smaller piece of shallow target would be low or mid tone ( for iron or foil). Very rarely on my 6a's, if ever, will a shallow piece of iron or foil sound off as a high tone. Those targets may be faint and seem deep, but the tone ID give it away. Even if the deeper coin may high tone along with some mid or low tones as well when sweeping over the target, the shallower garbage of iron and foil/aluminum never go into the high tone area ( at least on the 6a's I have).

Now, where if becomes tricky is when the deep silver/copper coins are on the fringes, and the CZ wants to down average into the mid tone or low tone for that target. This is where the VCO pin point comes into play, where sizing the target, as well as listening to the all metal tone signature and getting a depth reading, helps out.

Bottom line though is, when I am hunting in spots that can produce old coins, with my CZ's, I dig all targets that read 8+ inches when getting a depth reading, regardless of tone ID.

I am waiting for a newer version of the CZ too. Seems it's not going to happen. Since I am so used to the built like a tank, never die old CZ's, maybe it's best they don't come out with a new version !!!

A machine that can audibly talk to you ..

Good modulation with size perception...

I find a AT series to do this very well...

with the ability to report a target with duration and strength goes along ways in deeper target retrieval..

a small tight sound with weak sound can be usually regarded as small surface to few inch targets...small targets cant be heard deep...larger wider coin sized hits with weaker audio are more of the dig me type hits...

machines like say a Tejon for instance will have you chasing small .22 bullets that sound like deep .58 caliber bullets....they sound the same...the Tejon while a great unit in its own right does not have the nuances like some others...a deep .58 caliber bullet on a tejon like 10 inches deep can beocome jsut a narrown weak hit...but a surface .22 bullet under straw can mimic that same sound...

Fast machines and High Khz are the most noticable at doing like above mentioned...

slow machines with lower Khx are better suited for definiton at times...

But now we are starting to see machine slike the at series High freq but High definiton Audio and not extremely fast..

The DTVG is another good one to LISTEN to...its on 25 Khz but has a slow mode...it allows the deepies to sound deep....Drawn out if you will...

And of course with the full audio modulation report of the DEUS and ability to slow it down it too can be customized to listen for deepr target's...

Higher defintion Disc audio like we are starting to see on the ATs and the Xps can and will help figure out some depth perceptions..

all my take..

Keith

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> slow machines with lower Khx are better suited for
> definiton at times...
>

Good point Keith. In my opinion a CZ's dominate frequency is the 5kHz, and it's a slower speed unit. Running mine I can tell shallower garbage from deeper potential non-garbage. But I have been running them for 20+ years, and they are my main units, used about 80% of the time, so I do have some 'run time and ear time' on them.

Not easy for a person who has not had years using them, to hear the nuances and know how to target indentify using both the discrim audio, all metal audio and the VCO pin point. Takes some time and lots of digging to get a confidence level up. But thats part of the fun.

The coil design, being concentric, may also contribute to this....caveat for me is I am in mild soil or on the beach. I know the areas and places you hunt, as CZ may cry for help !

That is the real secret - using one machine until you are one with its language. I switch up units too often and fall victim to being a jack of all detectors but a master of very few. I do not think I am really good with anything these days. It does not take a ton of skill to run a PI and dig everything, just a strong back!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2014 08:22PM by Steve Herschbach.

bump for the op

The ET/Explorers do a good just just because you do have the ability to adjust modulation of the target. Not sure that a lower freq would make a difference.... it might get you deeper targets... along with more EMI but the problem is still there. The DFX did a pretty good job as well so i suspect the V3 would and you do have the ability to use a single freq unlike the ET.

Dew

I would also think the Deus it was a machine the V3 should have been but never became..different freq you can hunt at 4-18 and different levels of disc and audio vol iron vol reactivity TX power a lot of ways to hunt...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

therover61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve,
>
> Using a CZ as an example, running in
> discrimination mode 0, volume 2-3, sensitivity in
> a range where the unit is stable but can still hit
> a silver dime in the 7-8 inch range with a high
> tone, any smaller surface item will sound louder,
> or if it's a smaller piece of iron or foil,
> although it may sound just as faint as a deep
> silver/copper coin, will not have the same tone ID
> signature. The coin will be a high tone for the
> most part, whereas the smaller piece of shallow
> target would be low or mid tone ( for iron or
> foil). Very rarely on my 6a's, if ever, will a
> shallow piece of iron or foil sound off as a high
> tone. Those targets may be faint and seem deep,
> but the tone ID give it away. Even if the deeper
> coin may high tone along with some mid or low
> tones as well when sweeping over the target, the
> shallower garbage of iron and foil/aluminum never
> go into the high tone area ( at least on the 6a's
> I have).
>
> Now, where if becomes tricky is when the deep
> silver/copper coins are on the fringes, and the CZ
> wants to down average into the mid tone or low
> tone for that target. This is where the VCO pin
> point comes into play, where sizing the target,
> as well as listening to the all metal tone
> signature and getting a depth reading, helps out.
>
>
> Bottom line though is, when I am hunting in spots
> that can produce old coins, with my CZ's, I dig
> all targets that read 8+ inches when getting a
> depth reading, regardless of tone ID.
>
> I am waiting for a newer version of the CZ too.
> Seems it's not going to happen. Since I am so used
> to the built like a tank, never die old CZ's,
> maybe it's best they don't come out with a new
> version !!!


100% correct!..also might add that i will dig any "modulated"
deeper high tone from approx 4" plus..in my experience,modulation begins
around that depth,(at least with my ears)....generally,in my area (new england),
"war" silver is found at approx. 4" to 5" depth. anything deeper,and we are talking
barber,seated,and/or colonial...i'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.