has any detector ever offered graphic representation of audio report/signal?

I'm just curious if any detector has ever offered a graphic representation of the audio reports or signals?
It looks like a graphic "snapshot" of the audio report would contain more intelligible information for the eyes than the sound conveys to the ears.

Has anyone here ever recorded the audio from their detector(s) and analyzed it by running it in an audio editing application?

Comments, anyone?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

The machines that do the hodograph function are probably along the lines of what you're thinking. They show phase lag vs. amplitude, usually on a Polar diagram display. Some of the AKA machines do it, the XP Deus has it as a hidden screen, the Whites V3 can do something like it. I've also seen amateur projects on Geotech1, such as a recent one on an Arduino controller based add-on, showing phase lag vs time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2014 07:30PM by Pimento.

No, Pimento, I don't think so. I'm not talking about graphing the target data; I'm talking about taking the audio report, i.e., sound the detector makes in response to the target, and simply graphically displaying that report/signal in order to analyze it visually as well as audibly.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

The audio is just a representation of the raw data. And the hodograph etc is a visual representation of the data. The visual representation of the audio representation of the actual data is not going to be that informative, I think. Especially on the 99% of machines that are of the beep-and-dig style, which use differentiation techniques to work out the peaks of the signal. On machines like the XP GMP/Deus that give a more continuous audio report, there would likely be a closer relationship between sound and visual.
Could you give an example of what type of thing you want to see on your display? Are you thinking of a large colour display, like a tablet PC? I have this vision of huge amounts of graphical data whizzing by in front of me as I sweep, none of which I could follow....but my ears could.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2014 12:57AM by Pimento.

OK, so a picture is worth a thousand words, right? Let's say the words are spoken and listened to, not written and read. You have the picture and the sound. Each conveys information.
Some detectors are described as tonal. Lots of information in the audio reports they give of the targets they find. Low tones, high tones. Grunts. Clean. Dirty. Round sounds. Clipped. Long. Short.
Generally, when I find a target, I hear it initially and then repetitively swing the coil over it, listening for what information I can gain from the audio reports from the repetitive swings over the target. Sometimes I circle the target, listening, analyzing the sounds my detector is making. The best I can. OK, what if my ears are not as good as yours. Maybe its my headphones. Maybe its background noise.

What if I could take a visual graphic snapshot of the sound made as the coil passes over the target? If the sound starts kinda ratty or growly or low and rounds out, or is short(er) or long(er), or becomes dirty or muddy, or doesn't, the snapshot of the visual representation of the sound provides a signature of that target. If I turn 90 degrees and take another visual graphic snapshot of the sound, I have another signature of that target. I can compare how this target sound LOOKS to how target sounds from bottle caps, pull tabs, mini balls, buttons, foil, silver dimes, zinc pennies, and whatever else LOOK. If one can HEAR the iron in a target, shouldn't one be able to also SEE the iron in a graphic display of the sound that target makes?

Why do audio editors display the sounds graphically? I suspect it's because there is MORE PRECISE information in the graphic representation of the sound than there is in the sound, itself. Otherwise, why not just listen to the sound and cut, crop, copy and paste, and clean up the audio simply by ear, instead of employing VISUAL analyzation, as well?

I get your point about the sound the target makes not being the raw data of the target, itself. I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that if a tonal report is given to convey information about that target to the detectorist, perhaps there is MORE PRECISE information in the graphical representation of that tonal report. And perhaps it is more convenient, i.e., cheaper to capture and display a visual representation of the sound data than it is to capture and display a visual representation of the raw target data.
And to my point; would it be (more) cost effective (than other visual data) AND would it provide MORE intelligible information to the detectorist about the target than sound alone?

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Quote:"would it be (more) cost effective than other visual data"
It seems I was on the right lines with my 'tablet PC' display. You're inspired by 'sound studio' audio gear, things like spectrum analysis, VU meters et al. So no, it won't be cost effective if it needs a 1024+ pixel wide colour screen and a dual-core micro board. Unless of course, you were intending using an existing smart-phone / tablet device that you already own, to do the hard work. Then it starts to look viable.
But even so, if you're sweeping your coil at 80cm per second, and targets 3cm apart can be resolved, how would this appear on a display? A huge amount of graphs flickering away, anything of interest is gone in a second or so.

there must be many hunters whos ears and hearing are not what they used to be due to tinitus and declining hearing so a graphical display would be usefull .IMO

Tactile feedback apparently is moderately effective, too, if your hearing is impaired. I'm thinking of vibration motors like cellphones use.

Re. the visual display. I can see some use if you were able to store the previous second or two of audio data or raw data. Then if you heard a sound that alerted you, you could grab a trigger-switch, and review what it looked like in a visual perspective. You could replay the audio, too, I guess, so you could determine if it was how you though on the first hearing.

I like the idea of being able 2 have both audio and perhaps switch to vibrate when ear fatigue starts. you could have a strong vibrate for shallow targets a medium for the average depth targets, and for me personally a lead to my backside to give a good kick for those deep-faint targets? That's no joke give it to me twice as hard if I try and walk away? HH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 07:01AM by rapidroy7.

The V3i has the best visual vs audio respresentation on the market in my opinion.

I like the signagraph on the V3i. It allows you to see what you hear.

You have a choice of using the Spectragraph or the Signagraph display. I like the signagraph because it is simple to interpret. Change the resolution of the spectra/signagraph bars from 7 VDI numbers per bar (default) to 1, 2 or 3 VDI numbers per bar. That lets you see the ramp up, the peak and the ramp down of the signal response. You can also change your fade rate and review the details of every target captured in a sweep if you wanted to, then clear the display with a trigger click and sweep again.

Then with a push of a trigger you can see the ferrous affects on the polar plot.

Alot of info when you learn how to use it and set it up to give you want you want.

HH
Mike

I was just thinking about this again, re-reading the posts, and when I read my line:
"You could replay the audio,.. so you could determine if it sounded how you though on the first hearing"
And it occurred to me that replaying in 'slow-motion' might be useful, so you can pick out the details, like the subtleties the original poster mentioned - raspy, clean, clipped, slight iron buzz etc. In principal, if your raw data is stored, then the detector could do a more thorough analysis/processing of the signal before it presents it to your ears at half-speed (or suchlike).
In practice, I find it straightforwards enough to just re-sweep / pinpoint etc to get the repeat and home in on the target. But as the implementation of the 'slow-audio-replay' feature is just a button-push, it's not the most far-fetched idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2014 08:21PM by Pimento.

Part of the hobby is the expectation of what you have before you dig in my eyes...Depending on the hunter, unit, headphones many long time users of one unit can pick out certain audio variances and give him an idea. Having said the above of course various units give graphics, tones, audio variances to help but all in all no unit can be 100 percent. For instance certain targets will give a dead on quarter signal when its not and perhaps a foil signal may be can slaw or perhaps a nice gold ring. Heck gold deposits can be found from an airplane but the cost of the device is astronomical and far out of reach of the average detectorist and with the price of some of the new units its getting that way with common metal detectors.

"Depending on the hunter, unit, headphones many long time users of one unit can pick out certain audio variances and give him an idea. Having said the above of course various units give graphics, tones, audio variances to help but all in all no unit can be 100 percent"

very true, and I'd wager that I could probably dig 10 targets while the other guy with various 'analysis' might only dig 6 or 7. From my extra targets I might get a keeper.....

as an aside, gold & silver dropping like rocks since the all-clear has been given to the US economy.....lots of jobs.....all is well.....