What's Wrong with America? - warning, this title is shameless click bait - it's really only about metal detectors'

Okay I thought that would wake everybody up.

What I really meant was what's wrong with American detectors and/or America detector users.

The answer of course is nothing really but

A lot of people get really upset when their machine shows numbers to jump all over the place and refused to logon to one good number or type range of good numbers when they put the coil over the US coin of a certain denomination.

Since our coinage has not changed its mix of values or the metal composition of the various values (with a few exceptions like WWII steel cents and silver nickels), all visual ID detectors made in the US – with very few exceptions – have been more or less optimized for correct identification of the denomination of a buried coin. On Whites machines with VDI displays, it seems to have meant that the pre-set programs have neen crafted to make quiet, smooth operating machines with good positive ID of US coins. It is usually possible to coax considerably more depth out of them by manupilating the controls so that effective power is increased, sometimes at the cost of smoothness or simplicity of operation.

When it detector comes along which is not optimized for coin shooting in the US, it tends to generate a lot of complaints about failure to lock on to a certain VDI or jumping all around etc. The XP Deus is doing really well now in the US but complaints about it usually center around the VDI not being a good guide to what you're going to find.

On this forum a lot of folks are now coming around to believing that the key to better finds in heavily hunted areas or at teardown sites and other iron infested sites is to use a modern detector with some form of tone discrimination and listen for hints that the target you're examining is something other than ferrous metal. Our very own Keith Southern is a prime exponent of the school of detecting and he's produced some nice videos that clearly show what he's onto.

The only problem with all this is that the kind of detectors that give this sort of performance seem to started about $1000 and go up from there. There may be hope however for those of us whose detector budget doesn't run to several thousand dollars a year. acouple days ago I saw a local ad and bought a white eagle spectrum detector from a guy. I won't say how much I paid because if I eventually want to sell it somebody might "hold it against me". this is the model that came right before the XLT and is pretty much the same detector but in the bigger box, uses c cells not AA's, and doesn't have as good a VDI display.

This darn thing if you set it up correctly has amazing depth - deeper,than anything I have tried excopt my F-75 on my test quarter which has been buried about 9" down for 6 years or so. Target separation however is not its strongest point - using Keith's nickel next to a 12d nail test I can't get a nickle like signal sweeping horizontally along the nail with the nickel a quarter of an inch away or closer. This is with the standard 9.5 inch coil. I didn't get it however primarily for use with the 9.5 inch coil – I have a bigfoot for this series of detectors – the 6.59 kHz ones - and I mostly got the detector to drive the Bigfoot.

My first experiments with it are promising. Bigfoot coils are not supposed to be deep, but by adjusting the multitude of controls on the Spectrum I can get almost as much depth with the Bigfoot as with the standard coil. when I try Keith's nail and nickel test, I find that I can sort of "tickle" a good signal by the "withdraw from the target while wiggling" technique with the tip of the Bigfoot. This is using the full tones option which white's calls tone ID – and the mixed mode option where you get the all metal signal and the discrimination signal at the same time – I don't think it stereo however.

The only problem with all this however is that the Bigfoot is an 18 inch coil and if you used it in a trashy spot you would have several targets under the coil at the same time. I need to get hold of one of the small DD coils that were made for these machines and try it as well as trying to find a "Goldfoot" coil which is a 9x2 ciol like half a bigfoot - there was also a rumor that bounty hunter coils can be adapted.

We will see how it goes. If I run out of stuff to try, I can hook it up to the 25" Magnum Force coil I bought in a weak moment last year and see if I can find an iron meteorite in one of the cotton fields around here.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 03:04AM by lytle78.

YIKES---25"!!-----You better bring along your grandson to help you swing that motha, Rick.--------And I thought my 17" CTX coil was a mother ship! ha ha

The 25" coil is light as a feather, but it is cantilevered out so far that it's still a hassle.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Basically that bigfoot is made for coverage not depth....buy yourself one of those 5.3 six inch coils and it may never come off...Personally not into swinging garbage can lids myself but whatever works...
That Spectrum you have is one of the most accurate meters around but heavy as h..l..unfortunately it has a long learning period so good luck. Heck try one of those older Tesoro $200 notch units if you want tones and sound variations. Not belittling your post just setting things straight from experience...and good luck in your ventures..
PS: Mixed mode audio in competent hands is a potent weapon...

Well talking about detectors OK

BUT I just wish that was the most we had to worry about.

What's wrong with America?

PacMan

Thanks for the info Dan. I have used Bigfoot coils in a V3, a Prizm, an IDX Pro and now the Spectrum (there were 3 different Bigfoot models - and I have had them all).

What amazed me with the Bigfoot on this Spectrum is the fact that I could get amazing depth with it. Very nearly equaling the standard 9.5 coil - which on this Spectrum, of you drive it hard is scary deep. Perhaps I could have figured out how to do that on the V3i, but it was just too complicated and I couldn't resist selling the DFX/MXT Bigfoot for a silly high price when I got the chance, leaving me only with one for the 6.59 kHz machines - which why I bought the Spectrum.

The other thing is that where I live, all the electric service is underground and even normally mild mannered detectors like the Gold Bug Pro sound like a Nazi MG-42 machine gun at 100% settings. The Bigfoot is a figure 8 configuration coil which is quiet as a mouse at settings on the Spectrum - settings which drive the standard coil nuts.

I got a 5.3 coil, brand new, never hooked up - with the Spectrum. It doesn't seperate adjacent targets in my dirt significantly better than the standard coil - and doesn't go as deep. It is for sale.

As far as the garbage can lid 25. Yes it probably is a bit of a joke, but several folks have used it with deadly effect to find old privies and made good money digging them out - mostly for the bottles!

I apologize for my "clickbait" subject line. As far as what is - or isn't - wrong with our beloved country - I like to get my politics and my metal detecting in seperate places. I have a wide variety of both types of information - and like my whiskey and my water, I don't like to mix them.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 02:39AM by lytle78.

Hi Rick, in the Finds Forum you mentioned you already have the F75LTD 2 (with new software).

you say above:

"When it detector comes along which is not optimized for coin shooting in the US, it tends to generate a lot of complaints about failure to lock on to a certain VDI or jumping all around etc. The XP Deus is doing really well now in the US but complaints about it usually center around the VDI not being a good guide to what you're going to find."

can you speak to how well the F75 does is this regard, i.e. how well the VDI locks on, especially in the new FA mode?

looking forward to your thoughts on the F75 in general...


cheers...

when i visit Houston to see family and i go into a mobile phone shop i am astonished at the ancient phones on the shelves .compared with the UK phone shops they look about 10 years behind the times ,and i cant buy a sim card only deal to fit in my unlocked phone.
the US is advanced on military electronics but lags on general commercial stuff it seems .
US phone companies seem to have buyers over a barrel .

Those 6.59 kHz Big Foot coils are getting rare as hen's teeth as the guy who made them passed on. Any time you see one in half way decent shape they go for 250.00 -300.00 or better. It's kinda like the Sunray FZ-12 coil for CZ's as not made anymore really drives the price up. I would still like to get a Big foot coil for my Tone I.D. Modded XL-PRO.

Hey Rick..

a few machines pass the test such as that....and mostly older whites.. even the 2 filter classic 3..and using the concenctric coil..

the problems will arise when you get into real world hunts....the machines will do well for sure..but the settings you use to get that response when used in real world hunts in tight iron will not give you enough audio intelligence to overcome digging all sorts of trashy iron through out the hunt...

Believe me I know Ive been there and done that..

the modern fast machines on High freq with DD coils are the one you need to look for to pass those test...

do this test....hunt a iron loaded spot good and hard with that machine set up like you have it for that test....Now take the DEUS and put it into say the DEUS fast... go back in there and see how many more targets you will find...even though the DEUS cant pass that test..

The machines to be on the look out for when trying to locate site unlockers are Tight DD's higher freqs tonal qualities comparable to all metal with disc tones audio..Pure audio feedback picture painting reports...and when you see one that fits the bill and also passes the test...your on the right track...Also know to apss that test witht he DEUS it would do it quite easily if it had a small coil...

the 6.59 machines will get your goat at that setting you have for passing the test when used in real world hunts...no audio intelligence..

The most important thing though is that you are TESTING units out...very beneficial for your mental notes...I say the more machines you can get your hands on and test and use in the field the more instinct you will build for what works and what does not work...I truly commend you Rick on TESTING and researching....its almost as addictive as the hunt its self..

Keep at it !!!

Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 12:31AM by Keith Southern.

Thanks, Keith.

My latest run at the nail and nickle used a nail and a dime, and the detector was my Whites TDI. THIS pI machine can be set up so that iron is ignored totally and high conductors (no nickles) sing out loud and clear. The depth in that configuration is no better than a Tesoro Compadre sadly, but it's fun to make the nail disappear and the dime sing out!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Keith,

I know the Spectrum is far from your well chosen pick of the litter detectors for the bed of nails. The 6.59 Whites machines never had a decent factory or even aftermarket DD COIL, PLUS THEIR BEST RECOVERY RATE IS NOT UP TO CURRENT BEST PRACTICE ( sorry about forgetting the caps lock, but I'm too lazy to go back and fix it), however, an audible threshold null is audio information too, and with the Bigfoot, I can test that null easily with the tip of the coil and get a nice middle nickle tone. If I had a Goldfoot (half a bigfoot, more or less) I think it would be an actually usable setup. Would it be a worldbeater ? No of course not, but for about $300 worth of coil and detector, it ain't bad!

Anyway, I wouldn't be wasting my time on this if it weren't for you, so you have only yourself to blame for this nonsense! LOL.

Thanks Keith.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Hey Rick...

Thats the name of the game..

Find something that works...and maybe in an unorthodox manor...

Hey Im glad people (YOU) are experimenting...Trying..testing...I like to read about things that people discover...Or even things people like ....one thing about detecting the more your enthused the more fun the hunt is and the more you will find...

Sometimes the best machines are the ones not being talked about ...Wink Wink...
Sometimes the best finds are the one not being talked about ...Wink Wink....


Keith

Rick actually many find the 5.3 newer version not the old 6 inch wide variety to get good depth and perception, apparently that is not the case with yours and could be malfunctioning as Whites coils go out of tune.
Experiment with the mixed mode audio as it can be a killer as you learn its pro's and cons.
Not into those large coils but many do well with them.
As far as the Bigfoot coils really cover a lot of area and not depth demons but certainly have their place.
Whites makes excellent detectors but many have learning periods so hang in there.
Previous post was made from my experiences however in your neck of the woods results may vary.
Many think the hobby is easy as pie but takes many years to become a true detectorist and good luck in your ventures,,
As always great forum to learn from so any questions feel free and we have a lot of bright detectorists...

Imreally nezed to find a Goldfoot coil, if any of you folks know somebody who might have one in a closet somewhere, please let meknow.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold