How widely were gold coins dispersed in the US

Yes those coins would have circulated in the U.S. up through the Civil War....

What better than to pay someone with than Gold...

I would love to find any gold coin and of course a U.S mint one yet for Speaking volumes a Escudo off a Deep South history rich site would be top's!!! For me ..

I Would love to dig one off a early federal period site....

Thats why I love to dig Reale's...theres just something about coins being accepted in the U.S. that's not minted here that is mind boggling to me...

I really love the Spanish coin's I must say!

Did you dig those coins Tom?



Keith

My dream for detecting for almost 30yrs has been to find a gold coin....ANY GOLD COIN.

Aaron

Fascinating stuff, and yes I totally agree that gold has carried a near-universal acceptance as "something of value" -- for thousands of years. Huge armadas of ships, filled with warriors, from a multitude of countries, were willing to risk their lives, crossing great expanses of ocean, all in an attempt to secure additional sources of this metal...much violence and loss of life -- all in pursuit of this ever-so-important commodity. It is indeed no different than today, with respect to the time-tested value that gold carries...it's just that we've been trained to view paper as having the same value (through a great deal of sustained effort on the part of those who control the paper).

That works, as long as the system stays up, and running. Should that ever change, for whatever reason, I don't think it would take long for many people to realize/remember what the more solid/stable/desirable currency actually is...

It's not hard to envision a day/scenario where those U.S. AND those Mexican gold coins (and those of whatever other country) would once again become preferable to a Federal Reserve Note...

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 02:44PM by steveg.

I bet I have found lots of gold coins...just never dug them up. I almost never dig signals in that disc range in parks. Maybe I should start...especially if they are deep.

Just ordered the Bower's book!!!

I saw a video on youtube demonstrating the V3i's ID numbers on gold coins, but does anyone know what the numbers are on the F75?
one dollar
2 1/2 dollar etc.

Arthur-Canada wrote:
I bet I have found lots of gold coins...just never dug them up. I almost never dig signals in that disc range in parks. Maybe I should start...especially if they are deep.


Depends how old your parks are...

TNdirtdigger --

If you are talking about Bowers' illustrated history of U.S. gold coins book, it's a good read. I'm about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through it, and I'm enjoying it.

Steve

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TNdirtdigger --
>
> If you are talking about Bowers' illustrated
> history of U.S. gold coins book, it's a good read.
> I'm about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through it, and
> I'm enjoying it.
>
> Steve




Yep,that's the one. Looking forward to the read!

F70/F75 gold coin ID as follows:

U.S. Gold $1.00 Type-1........................25/26
U.S. Gold $1.00 Type-2 & Type-3..........24
U.S. $2.50 Gold Quarter Eagle..............42
U.S. $5.00 Gold Half Eagle...................53
U.S. $10.00 Gold Eagle........................62
U.S. $20.00 Gold Double Eagle.............69

This is under absolutely textbook perfect conditions. ((( Controlled environment air-test )))
Coins that are heavily worn........ or ...... especially..... has a rim 'ding' (damage) can/will ID a bit differently.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F70/F75 gold coin ID as follows:
>
> U.S. Gold $1.00
> Type-1........................25/26
> U.S. Gold $1.00 Type-2 & Type-3..........24
> U.S. $2.50 Gold Quarter Eagle..............42
> U.S. $5.00 Gold Half Eagle...................53
> U.S. $10.00 Gold Eagle........................62
> U.S. $20.00 Gold Double Eagle.............69
>
> This is under absolutely textbook perfect
> conditions. ((( Controlled environment air-test
> )))
> Coins that are heavily worn........ or ...... especially..... has a rim 'ding' (damage) can/will
> ID a bit differently

Thanks Tom! Btw,how much variation in ID numbers can you expect in moderately mineralized soil? I ask this because some friends and I had a "gold" day in which we buried (one inch) several gold pieces (coins and jewelry) - one of which was a type 2 1$ gold coin with a hole in it - and each of us experienced wildly fluctuating numbers on the coin. Was this due to the hole in the coin, the soil,or both? Thanks!

Really enjoy reading all the great information concerning this topic. Its sounds like our best chance of finding gold would be rings and jewelry and most likely place being at the beach. However, many of us do not live close to the beach, so for us it would I assume be next most likely found at parks, schools, ball fields ect. ..... Now, for the rare gold coins...most likely places as mentioned by Tom.... old military locations, then old parks and places where people congregated during the mid to late 1800's. Questions(:#1) If a 1/4 eagle gold and a silver quarter were dropped together in the mid 1800's which coin would be deeper and (#2) in average soil about what depth? (#3) There has been a lot of talk about new PI technology in the future to discriminate conductance and ferrous values to ID coins and relics..... Now the question: (#3)Do you think anyone is researching PI depth in order to discriminate ( adjustable 0 to ? inches) out the top soil in order to find the deep gold or silver coins? This would electronically clean up some of the trashy parks. (#4) If able to discriminate both TID and depth do you think this would this help? It would look to me that if I knew something was deep no matter what the TID said, I want to dig it anyway. Thanks

TNdirtdigger......... a 'holed' coin does not change the equation (and/or ID) very much......... and certainly does not cause the ID to bounce/fluctuate wildly. If the hole is infringing upon the rim........... that makes for a completely different story. But....... as long as the rim of the coin is intact...... the ID shall remain stable.
Dirt/mineralization is a vague term......... and resultants are variable. The more mineralization...... the more ID fluctuation. The higher the operating freq of the detector....... in concert with mineralization....... the more the ID fluctuation. There is no concrete answer due to excessive variances. I have witnessed a 5" deep Type-3 gold dollar .... in medium mineralization..... span in ID from as low as 'iron' .... to 'silver quarter'. I speculate that if the coin was just one inch deeper..... at 6"..... the ID would have been more consistent. That being: constant iron ID.

BamaJoe = Gold coins do sink at a faster rate. For example: a clad dime is 2.27 Grams. A Quarter Eagle is 4.18 Grams. The gold coin is nearly double the weight of the dime. The two coins are nearly exactly/identical in dimensions...... except for the weight. Gold is much heaver (higher density) than a copper (clad) dime. If you displace a dime.... and displace a Quarter Eagle......... they will displace nearly exactly the same amount. Specifically because of the weight (mass) the gold coin will 'push harder' on the dirt; hence, a faster sink-rate. I do not know of a formula (and I'm certain one could be formulated) that would show a linear sink-rate differential between the two coins..... with a 'base-reference density' dirt.
Also........... because of so many variations in soil structure.......... there may be cases whereby...... a copper dime may sink very slowly; yet, it's (identical dimensions) gold coin counterpart... may enter into the wrong side of the bell-curve soil stability (read: instability) equation; subsequently, sinking at a non-linear rate...... that may be several times faster than the copper dime.
It has been a detector designers dream to create a PI unit with ID abilities..... to depth. No joy (thus far).

Thanks so much

I received the Bower's Illustrated this weekend. I can't to get further in to it!! Looks awesome!!

It is really interesting...I continue reading it bit by bit, every night reading a little. Let us know what you think...

Steve

steveg.......... did you ever get past page 182 (all the preamble history)...... and into the section of the actual denominations? All of it is fascinating; however/yet, the data past page 182 is what really educates the 'detectorist'.

NASA-Tom --

I just last night started into that part of the book...the part on the gold dollars, and how they came into being (legislatively), all the "test" coins that were struck -- some even with "holes" in the middle like Chinese coins. There was alot of controversy surrounding them -- due to the small size, and the fact that many thought the silver dollars were a better option...

I agree -- this is going to be a FASCINATING part of the book...

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2014 01:16AM by steveg.

Let the detectorist 'value added' section/reading/portion of the book begin!

Got a good deal on a used one on Amazon.....

[www.amazon.com]

Aaron

Amazing where treasure leads come from sometimes.

HH
Mike

Exactly.

Also......... I feel this book should be a mandatory 'History book'.... to be imposed on all high school kids for a multiplicity of legit justification(s). VERY deep meaning about humankind..... and the workings thereof.

I got into the part of the book last night where it discusses when, and how, gold dollars were circulated (or not circulated, as the case may be, during certain years). Seems that during quite a bit of the time they were in production, the gold dollars either sat in bank vaults, or were massively hoarded by the public. As NASA-Tom has mentioned previously, huge mintage numbers, and maximum circulation, occurred in the early 1850s...during the period when the silver/gold value relationship completely broke down. This breakdown was due to two factors working simultaneously -- 1, the limited availability of raw silver -- thus raising the price of silver to a point where there was for a time (in the early 1850s) more silver in silver coins than the coin was worth (leading to illegal melting of coins to cash in on the silver content, and thus a major shortage of silver coins in circulation), and 2, a corresponding (temporary) flooding of gold into the market due to the California gold rush...

Fascinating stuff.

As such, early 1850s sites (military especially) would seem to be good places to focus our efforts...as NASA-Tom has alluded to...

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 04:17AM by steveg.

Steve....... thankyou for your step-by-step comprehension/retention documenting..... of your readings/findings.

I just order the book so i can keep up with what you guys are talking about. Hope it will help me find a gold coin. If it dose i will send Tom a big special delivery KISS, just hope a good looking woman brings it. Flintstone

I checked to see if I could get the book on my Kindle....they had many of Bowers books, but not that one.... I wonder why.

Hi,,,can you guys elaborate more as far as the years go or put a timeline like 1850 to 1860 would be the best age of a location to have a better chance of finding a gold coin?????...JJ

Thanks Aaron for posting that there were decently priced copies on Amazon. Last time I checked they were almost as much as new. Have one on the way now! This thread has been fascinating, educational, and eye-opening, so thanks to everyone's contributions on this.
Rich



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 11:59PM by samandnoah.

JJ.... I thought I did this. Is it not in this particular thread? I know I posted a tremendous amount about exacting era's/dates that would best increase your opportunity to finding gold coins.... possibly in another thread. Would love to find that old thread........ and 'link' it to this thread.

Hi Tom,,,I think I found it at the start of this thread April 07, 2010 12:06AM.....Thanks....JJ






"I have expended a large part of my life performing research on gold coins. I could write a book on this subject. I have reported this in some previous threads............but, in a nutshell;

Gold coins were heavily circulated in the 1840's, 1850's and through April, 1862.

A very important factor is the fact that our military during all of the said years.....paid the soldiers in "Specie" payment. That being; silver and gold coin. This is the definition of 'specie'. In general, enlisted were paid in silver....and officers were paid in gold. Yes, the enlisted would up-trade silver (when enough were saved) for gold coins.

In the early 1850's.......gold coins were in such plentiful quantities.....so much so......that the value of gold (somewhat) dropped......thanks to California 1848 - 1850's gold rush. This caused silver coins to become slightly more valuable/rare; subsequently leading to the complete disappearance of silver coins from circulation. (( The weight of silver coins were reduced-----as indicated by arrows beside the date...to signify the weight-reduction ))..... so as to stop the hoarding/melting of silver coinage.

Gold coin (and specie payment) resumed around the Fall of 1870.......and would carry through the mid-1880's.

Gold coins began to slow down circulation in the late 1880's.

Another slow down of circulation took place in 1895.

Then, yet, another very serious slow down of circulation in late-1916...early-1917.

Mintage ceased in 1933..... and gold coins were made illegal to hold for all Americans in 1934.....enacted by Franklin D. Roosevelt. ((( Nixon.....in 1974.....reversed this decision ))).

You will see HUGE volumes of gold coins "MINTED".......BUT, BUT......what REALLY matters.......is when were-they/did-they "CIRCULATE"! This is the critical concern for us detectorists. I could nearly care less about 'volume minted'.....as....it is in the 'circulated' status that is important to us. CRITICAL!

Remember, not long ago.........there was no such thing as FDIC or FSLIC. And when a yesteryear bank was robbed....YOU LOST YOUR MONEY!
Imagine needing to go to the bank to make a deposit. The bank is only 4 miles away. BUT.....the year is 1905. Most probably......you don't own a car. It would be a half-day experience to travel to the bank to make a deposit.....in a building without much security (or insurance). This is not a very good strategic/financial move. SOOOOOOOooooo.........what do you do? Ball-Mason jars were VERY common. Two per household. (Another large study of mine ).

Mid-West had fewer people.....but silver and gold coin were just as trusted/popular/circulated.

You see a picture starting to 'paint'???

Now..............would you trust paper money? Paper money that said "First Bank of Richmond". "First Bank of Allentown". """"Confederate States of America"""". Etc......... You see a picture yet?

How about 1929. It's one thing to lock the doors on a bank.....disallowing you to get your own money out of the bank. BUT....it's ANOTHER thing to NOT even be allowed to access your safe-deposit-box!!!!!

I have witnessed (so far in my lifetime).....

*Banks collapse
*Economies collapse
*Goverments collapse
*Monetary systems collapse
*etc..............


I have NEVER witnessed GOLD or SILVER collapse!!!!!!!!! And it's a universal language.

Federal Reserve established in 1913 by the powerful-7 on an island.
"FEDERAL" is to imply 'Government' (or at least quasi-government).
"RESERVE" is to imply 'Ft. Knox'.

Do a little research on this. You may learn that they are private bank notes......not backed by silver/gold. No more silver certificates; gold certificates.
Also .... find out about 'fiat currency'.


Tom