How widely were gold coins dispersed in the US

The city of Detroit has a program going on where all of the abandoned homes are being bulldozed. Many of the homes (at least 60%) were built between 1890-1930. How many people lived through the War Between the States?
WW1?
The Great Depession?
Bank runs?
FDR?

There has got to be alot of buried monies in the ground here. One of the contractors leveled a home in February, and the walls were full of old cash.

This was real money, NOT a Federal Reserve Note.


















5

A U.S. $10 Eagle gold coin will ID as a '62' on a F75
A U.S. $20 Double Eagle gold coin will ID as a '69' on a F75

What's interesting is...... for the most-part:

ID's: 42, 52, 62 is the Quarter-Eagle, Half-Eagle, Eagle (F75 ID's)........... respectively. The Double Eagle's "thickness vs diameter" may not be a linear-scaled differential; subsequently, the ID is not '72'. Two points to be made from this data.

1). The F75's ID "span" design architect is 'scaled' in proper ratio/proportion.
2). All of the gold coins are made out of the exact same material.....and has the exact same 'gold' conductivity. So WHY do they NOT ID the same? (((This is a question for Keith Southern..... and should help aid him in a previous thread/question))). xxxxxx ((((((( You can extrapolate the same data with: silver dime.....vs.....silver dollar; 'why' do they NOT ID the same. They are made out of the same exact material ))))))).

Let's go another step further...using F75 ID numbers:

Type 1 U.S. $1 Gold coin ID = '26'
Type 2 & 3 U.S. $1 Gold coin ID = '24'

ALL of the coins are made out of the exact same material...... AND...... their mass/weight is also exactly the same. So.... 'why'.... the ID differential !!!

Hi, sorry I removed my answer I wasn't quite awake yet......I just read the question again and seen it was directed towards Keith......JJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2011 02:51PM by jimmyjiver.

Tom, I remember when I found my cache, I id the metal in the ground, not a good signal, but of iron, the lid to the jar was tin and was starting to rust, how many containers have iron on top of gold and are just a foot away from us

I have dug many a mason jar lids, they have a porcelan milky white disc under the deteriorating metal lid. They always give a high tone on the cz and 75 and are usually deep.

Well Tom From what I have always known on how a detector works is it reads the surface area of a target through the eddy current principal...So it does not read the mass of the target just the part of the target that is surface aligned to the bottom of the coil....





To take a stab at your gold coin question

Coin Type..................Diameter....................weight Grams............I.D.

Type 1 Dollar..............12.7 mm........................1.7.........................26
Type 2 Dollar..............14.3 mm........................1.7.........................24
Type 3 Dollar..............14.3 mm........................1.7.........................24
1/4 Eagle....................18.0 mm........................4.18.......................42
1/2 Eagle....................21.6 mm........................8.36.......................52
Eagle..........................27.0 mm......................16.72.......................62
Double eagle..............34.0 mm......................33.436.....................69


As the surface area goes up so does the I.D to a Degree......All same metal.......

The I.D. is not proportional on the Double as one would think ...as the next linear number would seem to be 72 but it is not....the coin made the biggest progressive jump in Diameter here gaining 7 mm over the eagle yet only went up 70 % increase this time in I.D.

The dollar coin's are just 4 mm smaller than the 1/4 eagle yet read close to half on I.D.

This would lead one to believe that metal conductivity reaches a saturation point....At least in my thought process......



There's a break point on all target's...High conductors becoming low conductor's by surface size and and mid conductors reading higher because of surface size.......Yet it's not an absolute ....

One thing I would like to add is I notice the thicker type 1 dollar coin read 2 digit's higher than the the thinner but larger diameter type 2 &3...if this is correct? I see when objects are close to the same size and same metal makeup that mass add's a slight different reading....on the up scale....

Wonder if a 7 inch Nickle would read higher than a 7 inch silver dime both on edge? More surface area exposed...?




Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2011 03:45AM by Keith Southern.

So if I one was to take a gold coin for example and hammer it out to a much larger diameter (making it thinner) it would report a higher ID?

markg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all this said, where is the most likely place
> to find a gold coin?
>
>
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have expended a large part of my life
> performing
> > research on gold coins. I could write a book on
> > this subject. I have reported this in some
> > previous threads............but, in a nutshell;
>
> >
> > Gold coins were heavily circulated in the
> 1840's,
> > 1850's and through April, 1862.
> >
> > A very important factor is the fact that our
> > military during all of the said years.....paid
> the
> > soldiers in "Specie" payment. That being;
> silver
> > and gold coin. This is the definition of
> 'specie'.
> > In general, enlisted were paid in silver....and
> > officers were paid in gold. Yes, the enlisted
> > would up-trade silver (when enough were saved)
> for
> > gold coins.
> >
> > In the early 1850's.......gold coins were in
> such
> > plentiful quantities.....so much so......that
> the
> > value of gold (somewhat) dropped......thanks to
> > California 1848 - 1850's gold rush. This caused
> > silver coins to become slightly more
> > valuable/rare; subsequently leading to the
> > complete disappearance of silver coins from
> > circulation. (( The weight of silver coins were
> > reduced-----as indicated by arrows beside the
> > date...to signify the weight-reduction )).....
> so
> > as to stop the hoarding/melting of silver
> > coinage.
> >
> > Gold coin (and specie payment) resumed around
> the
> > Fall of 1870.......and would carry through the
> > mid-1880's.
> >
> > Gold coins began to slow down circulation in
> the
> > late 1880's.
> >
> > Another slow down of circulation took place in
> > 1895.
> >
> > Then, yet, another very serious slow down of
> > circulation in late-1916...early-1917.
> >
> > Mintage ceased in 1933..... and gold coins were
> > made illegal to hold for all Americans in
> > 1934.....enacted by Franklin D. Roosevelt. (((
> > Nixon.....in 1974.....reversed this decision
> ))).
> >
> > You will see HUGE volumes of gold coins
> > "MINTED".......BUT, BUT......what REALLY
> > matters.......is when were-they/did-they
> > "CIRCULATE"! This is the critical concern for
> us
> > detectorists. I could nearly care less about
> > 'volume minted'.....as....it is in the
> > 'circulated' status that is important to us.
> > CRITICAL!
> >
> > Remember, not long ago.........there was no
> such
> > thing as FDIC or FSLIC. And when a yesteryear
> bank
> > was robbed....YOU LOST YOUR MONEY!
> > Imagine needing to go to the bank to make a
> > deposit. The bank is only 4 miles away.
> > BUT.....the year is 1905. Most
> probably......you
> > don't own a car. It would be a half-day
> experience
> > to travel to the bank to make a deposit.....in
> a
> > building without much security (or insurance).
> > This is not a very good strategic/financial
> move.
> > SOOOOOOOooooo.........what do you do?
> Ball-Mason
> > jars were VERY common. Two per household.
> > (Another large study of mine ).
> >
> > Mid-West had fewer people.....but silver and
> gold
> > coin were just as trusted/popular/circulated.
> >
> > You see a picture starting to 'paint'???
> >
> > Now..............would you trust paper money?
> > Paper money that said "First Bank of Richmond".
> > "First Bank of Allentown". """"Confederate
> States
> > of America"""". Etc......... You see a
> picture
> > yet?
> >
> > How about 1929. It's one thing to lock the
> doors
> > on a bank.....disallowing you to get your own
> > money out of the bank. BUT....it's ANOTHER
> thing
> > to NOT even be allowed to access your
> > safe-deposit-box!!!!!
> >
> > I have witnessed (so far in my lifetime).....
> >
> > *Banks collapse
> > *Economies collapse
> > *Goverments collapse
> > *Monetary systems collapse
> > *etc..............
> >
> >
> > I have NEVER witnessed GOLD or SILVER
> > collapse!!!!!!!!! And it's a universal
> language.
> >
> > Federal Reserve established in 1913 by the
> > powerful-7 on an island.
> > "FEDERAL" is to imply 'Government' (or at least
> > quasi-government).
> > "RESERVE" is to imply 'Ft. Knox'.
> >
> > Do a little research on this. You may learn
> that
> > they are private bank notes......not backed by
> > silver/gold. No more silver certificates; gold
> > certificates.
> > Also .... find out about 'fiat currency'.
> >
> >
> > Tom


in a little league ball field! .any place older than 1933! i guess!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Keith........... exactly. Now............ as far as the tiny $1 gold coin (vs the Quarter Eagle)....... your are approaching the opposite of 'saturation'......... more like detecting something that is closer to a mineral... because it is so small.

Now........... take a U.S. $1 Type-1 gold coin....... and hit it with a hammer just once. It then becomes the size (diameter & thickness) of a Type-2 and Type-3 gold dollar........... and the ID goes down (from '26' to '24'). If you hit the coin a few more times with a hammer.... and made it thinner; yet, larger in diameter..... it now becomes the diameter of a silver dollar...... but is as thin as foil. It will now ID as '18'. The 'mass' has not changed. The gold conductivity has not changed. All of the gold is still there. The thickness HAS changed. There is MUCH more surface area..... allbeit... it's as thin as chewing gum foil. But..... the ID is much lower. NOW what are the thoughts!!!???????????

It might be that, at an f75's operating frequency, a thicker gold dollar target is needed in order to create adequate eddy currents. A higher frequency gold detector probably could produce adequate eddy currents within a thin gold target. Eddy currents produced by higher frequencies don't penetrate as deeply into a target as those produced by lower frequencies. Also, a thicker target might create more eddy current phase lag than is created in a thinner target of the same mass and material, which might effect target ID by a detector. Well, those are my WAGs. Rick Shaw



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2011 06:29PM by Rick Shaw.

My thoughts are that the currents pass through the object and don't get distorted as they would on a thicker piece of metal, therefore changing the ID.
My answer has nothing to do with knowledge of how these things work. If my guess is close to being correct, it's from reading Keith's and Tom's posts and adding 2+2.

From my understanding the type 1 Gold dollar target is thinner when beaten to foil thin and silver dollar diameter ......So a metal detector looks at the surface area of the target and not necessarily just the horizontal plane to the coil but also the sides (thickness) of the target....


Now whats weird to me is if the theory I am using is correct the surface area even on the sides of the coin added to the flat side of the coin would not create the surface area of silver dollar size flat foil gold piece......

The thickness of the metal enhances I.D.

As seen with your thicker type 1 coin reading 2 points higher than type 2&3 which has a slightly larger surface and slightly smaller thickness.

One way to look at it is the metal absorbs the transmission to a degree creating better energization of the target...Maybe thicker metal creates stronger eddy current's across the surface when thicker?

I Know say a half dime on edge in airtest can be heard with the double beep because the sides of the vertical coin are being energized and makes it be heard at decent depth.......take a piece of silver as wide as the edge (surface area of half dime on edge) of the half dime say like a fingernail clipping and it is almost undetectable ....Surface area is the same on a horizontal view but the side's of the half dime is now gone....


That question has me pondering why it happens Tom........I lean toward surface area more than the thickness increasing say an absorption of the signal creating more eddy's .....But to be honest.....that screws up the foil thin Silver dollar size surface area reading lower than the original thick type 1 smaller diameter coin ......

I believe a little of both is going on and the detector design works off this set pattern....you get lets say reflection and absorption of the signal on metal's...


Not sure I have used the right terminology but that's where I am at on my thinking as of the moment....


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2011 06:23AM by Keith Southern.

Can't wait to see NASA Tom's answer here...this is fascinating...

Steve

Two more 'phenomenon' thoughts to ponder:

Say.......... a silver Walking Liberty Half Dollar ID's as a '88' on the F75.
Now......... wave a 14Kt GOLD PLATED Walking Liberty Half Dollar in front of an F75..... and it STILL ID's as '88'.

If Eddy currents follow the 'skin-effect' rule (surface of the object)..... then why does any metal detector STILL 'see' the silver of the coin????


Okay....... thought number 2:

Let's say a 'correct' CZ can detect a nickel to 11.5". Now.............. take that same nickel.....and drill a hole in the nickel. A hole so big that there is nearly no nickel left. In fact the hole is so big..... you can wear the nickel as a wedding band. A very thin ring. Nearly ALL of the 'mass' of the coin is gone. BUT........... the nickel ring/wedding-band....... is still detectable to 11.2".
((((( Keith.... you are on the right track )))))

What say you?

Does the "Right hand rule" play into effect here?

I have no idea, just curious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2011 10:42PM by TheOtherLeggoHead.

Explain.

Well, I'm thinking that silver is one of the best conductors known, maybe it's specific resistance is why the machine registers it?

Dusting off my brain from Gordon's ham radio testing from 1996. Total guess.

1===Silver Half dollar Gold plated 14kt.......

As I understand plating it is of a minute thickness...1/1000th of a millimeter ...So at that I would think the gold is probably....May I say probably invisible to the detector?
Normal absorption occurs through the gold skin and reading the silver at it's full value of 88....the silver is just basically overpowering the micro conductor since they are basically bonded metal's....Again the Gold I believe is non-existent in the eyes of the detector???...Patina is probably thicker on a copper coin than the gold plating on silver?

2===Drilled out Nickle....

One thing I do know is a ring of any conductor is heard at decent depth's.....even iron rings fool a detector into thinking it's a desirable target...

Through my trial's of air testing I have always seen ring's get remarkable depth even super thin one's....

Reasoning ....the Eddy current's become supercharged from the infinity of the circle actually energizing better than if the surface is flat.....like a car going around a race track they get faster and faster and maybe even create more eddy's in the process?

Clip the ring and it becomes very very less responsive....breaking the conductive circuit...

Great question's Tom!

I like to keep my brain thinking/pondering..... my drive home from work late at night when I can run different scenarios through my mind after reading a post before leaving the Plant seems like it just takes a few seconds to go my 37 mile 50 minute trip.....

We take detector's for face value ......Turn them on set them and hunt....but never really understanding fully what is going on and how complex a process it is.....the detector's are truly Machines of curiosity and wonder....

Some of the thing's you have asked me....I studied on with available literature from manufacturer's a couple of decade's ago because I wanted to know what really goes on especially with the eddy current's....Now it jog's my memory to piece together what little Knowledge I had gained then....I ended up focusing on the physical aspect of hunting and becoming dormant on my thinking of what happens and why.....

You see certain thing's happening while detecting like digging odd iron or pieces of tin or crown caps by the dozen's and don't bother with the reason why you dug it......But as you delve back into the study of it thing's make sense.and why it happen's...

There's lot's I don't understand about detecting even after 30 plus year's...But never want to become complacent in my studying and learning...

Anyone can make the every now and then find or stumble onto the find of a lifetime...But to find stuff regularly in hunted hard spot's Knowledge of all aspect's of detecting equal's success.


Thanks


Keith

What would a zink cent ID if the outer copper were removed? Mabee i'll try it if I cann find time.

I think this link will get to a pdf that Carl, now at Whites wrote up some 5 years ago:
[www.geotech1.com]

It is a real basic study and he doesn't touch on thickness, which has been mentioned here.
Yet thickness or I suppose it could be called mass does comes into play with how a metal is detected.

One can take a piece of alum. foil of any Length times width and scan it.
Then fold it once and rescan, then continue folding and watch the ID rise on it.

Also resistance probably plays a part on how a detector reacts to a given signal.
This may also interplay with the "skin" effect.

Metal detectors ID and disc system seems to be calibrated for relatively small items....
Interesting discussion.

Hey Steve, thanks for that absolutely excellent article. I loved it, and now understand at least the basics of how the induction principle works, and how it is utilized in the function of a metal detector. But, I can see there is alot missing here. The "eddy current" idea makes sense to me, and is fascinating. But, given this understanding, still there are clearly pieces missing. For instance, while TYPE of metal in the coin, and its inherent efficiency at conducting electricity, affects the phase shift and thus how the machine "reads" the object, why does coin <i>thickness matter</i>; also, what is this "skin" effect? Further, what is going on with Minelab's FBS machines, where there is obviously a measuring of inductive response of a target (the "Conductivity" number), but then furthermore then there is a "ferrous" number given -- what is going on there? Must be something different than induction/eddy currents? Or no? Also, does each different type of metal "lose" its "energization" (eddy currents) at differing rates after "activation" by the coil's EM field, such that the subsequent rate of decay of "energization," or in other words the rate of decay of the eddy currents, can be somehow measured/exploited? Clearly, we are getting into second derivatives here (calculus), which I have for the most part forgotten many years ago. But still, there must be a way for this to be understood in somewhat "layman's" terms, no?

Steve

Very VERY good. You are all on-board.... and on-track.

A few more thoughts.... in the form of statements:

"Skin effect" = electrons following (conductive via) the 'surface' (or skin) of the object

Skin effect can (and is) easily misleading. (((Where do I start))). Electrons (in our case, eddy current) will USUALLY flow on the outer surface of a metallic object... because it is the LARGEST part of the object. Why? Because it is the area of LEAST RESISTANCE.......... due to the LARGEST surface area. In the case of a silver coin (that is gold plated)...... STILL........................................... the path of LEAST resistance would still be the silver. It does not matter that the gold plating is one or two mil's thick...... or is HGE (Heavy Gold Electroplated); the conductivity of the silver still wins. Yes, the gold plating is electrically connected (shorted) to the silver. A silver Walking Liberty Half Dollar may conduct 1060 amps. If you gold-plate this coin.......... it will STILL conduct 1060 amps. If you make a Walking Liberty Half Dollar entirely out of 24Kt pure gold..... now it will only conduct 650 amps..... subsequently, the conductivity of the metal detectors ID system would be linearly lower.
In furtherance: If you were to gold-plate a Walking Liberty Half Dollar (or any coin)...... BUT..........this time...... you could somehow 'suspend' the plating ABOVE the coin.... and the plating was NOT electrically touching the silver coin......... you would thusly have a 'gold faraday' cage around the silver coin. NOW,,,,,,, NOW......... you would see a huge difference. The conductivity of the object would be severely/completely altered.
(((Theorem..... turned-Proof))). Make sense?
If you were to find a man's 10Kt HGE (Heavy Gold Electroplated) ring......... and the ring is made out of copper...... but is 10Kt gold plated........................... it may ID as a Zinc Penny. Now............ find the exact size/dimensions ring ... but... this time ... in true solid 10Kt gold. (Not gold plated copper). NOW..... the conductivity of the ring is MUCH lower.... and will NOW ID as 'foil'. ((((((For those of you that have found gold plated rings..... you will now understand the 'why'.... they ID much higher))))).

A nickel with a huge hole drilled through it...... to the point where only a thin ring remains. Education here: The metal detector hardly knows anything has changed. The detection range/distance is still nearly the same. The detector does NOT know there is a huge hole in the nickel; rather, it does detect a lower conductivity. The coin does not carry nearly as much amperage/current. BUT.... the diameter (and thickness) have not changed. This means a LOT .... in reference to the inductive coupling of electromagnetic energy generated by a external source (the metal detector). ---A complete 'loop'. A closed circle. Is critical.--- This authorizes full generation of eddy current envelopment. Hence; nearly complete detection of the nickel-ring. xxxxx Now.......... if you were to take a pair of tin-snips..... and cut the nickel-ring open...... so it is no longer a closed 'loop'................ the detection of the object nearly COMPLETELY disappears. The 'closed-loop' continuity... self-cancels electromagnetic inductive coupling. A detector.......... especially in 'salt' mode........... will not detect this (no longer) annular target. ((((Painful thought: After a hurricane......... how many exposed OLD gold rings have 'failed detection'... due to the old 'sizing' solder-joint "opening up"..... and breaking the closed-loop continuity)))). xxxxx Another interesting phenomenon: Say you have a gold ring. You can detect it at 10". Now you take a pair of snips and cut it open. It's detection range becomes 1".... in 'as is' condition. Now..... you bend the (cut-open) ring.... to the point of straightening it out into a straight line. NOW...... your detector can detect it to 3". Interesting. This phenomenon occurs due to the removal of the 'self-cancel' portion of the electromagnetic inductive coupling effect.

((( How many people just went back to FindMall and TheTreasureDepot!!! )))

Pulse Induction DOES INDEED work on the principal of electromagnetic decay rate (time domain). Steve...... you are looking for the word "hysteresis". VERY IMPORTANT! Metals are primarily composed of 3 different elements/EMF-status: Paramagnetic, Diamagnetic and Ferromagnetic. On a pulse-induction metal detector........ the 'transmit' portion of the unit seeks to find objects with permeability/magnetic susceptibility. Then the transmitter turns off. Then........ the receiver turns on.......... and seeks to find hysteresis ((magnetic memory retained in a metallic object after the external source (energy from the coil) is removed)). If the receiver turns on more than once.... before the transmitter pulses again..... then (through a comparator)..... the detector can then analyze the 'time-domain' decay 'rate' of the object..... and have some ID capabilities. (((( Mfr's have yet to discover..... thus 'invent' this yet )))). I have covered this topic in greater detail in another thread........ and if someone has the time to find this.... and paste it in this thread.... it would be most helpful.

What a great read . It also explains why gold chains are so hard to hit on .

Where else would we find this great info.

Am I going back to FindMall and The Treasure Depot? That is humorous! In my opinion, the Thomas Dankowski Open Forum is a very interesting and informative forum. It appears that forum members here are quite interested in learning how and why metal detectors operate as they do. Rick Shaw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2011 08:03PM by Rick Shaw.

Great books that cover this are the Gordon West testing series.

Thanks for the information Tom. Very interesting.

Hobo........... I nearly forgot your Zinc Cent test. This would be a case where the external coating/jacket of the zinc cent (is of very thin solid copper)..... which is the highest conductor........ and........ the inner core is a lower conductor. In this case.... the external coating of copper makes a large difference in it's overall/final conductivity. The inner core is highly compressed powdered Zinc.... which is not very conductive.

Thanks for the detailed reply Tom!!! It means a lot!!!

Your Pulse statement has me thinking......Are you stating that if the detector can receive/Sample twice before sending another pulse it can get some discrimination?

I think I see where you are going with this comparator .....do you think the comparator could sample twice between pulses and still keep the sensitivity to lower conductor's..

I can see where dual analysis could be of great benefit,,

Keith

Steve, from what I have read, which I don't know if it is true... that ML multis(vlf detectors) use a form of time domain.
Time domain usually applies only to pulse detection as Tom has mentioned above.
I think in fact Tom has referred to that ML uses a comparator of sorts(vlf detectors) for disc and ID, tone ID.
So if that is true, it uses one freq. for a "baseline" reading and then another freq for a comparison
and then assigns value to a given signal...or something to that effect.

If in fact ML uses Time domain as part of their ID system, that is different than what any competitor uses.
They are definitely doing something different with their ID system.........and I bet ML ain't gonna tell exactly
what they are doing...there does seem to be a "kinship" between how ML pulse detector's operate and
their Explorer/Etrac...at least they both are using multi-period signals.
Yet the Explorer/Etrac is VLF while their gold machines are true multi-period pulses.

All other detectors use Frequency domain(VLF)...yet I don't know if that has to do with the IDing part.
From what little (which is very little) I understand about this, standard vlf detectors use an "X" and "R" components.
See here halfway down the page where is says:
"Why a VLF ground balanced detector has less sensitivity to higher conductive targets in the all metal mode".
George Payne goes into a little detail:
[jb-ms.com]


Good question, Keith...I do hope Tom will comment on that.
Have you tried one of ML's high end pulses for relic?
There is a guy over in TN that swears by them.....
I have heard even way back to the gpx 3000..or whatever it was called back then
that they do well for relics....but they are too rich for my blood.

Hey Steve the only one I have ever ran for any amount of tie was the 3500 model....A buddy of mine had one when they first came out and we used it in a camp I had worked on pretty hard with an explorer....

The Explorer was digging Bullet's (ringtail sharp's) at extreme depth's in there......the 3500 could here them also but with no disc circuit it heard every nail and other ferrous object the explorer was I.D.'ing as such......

I would love to try the 5000 and was close to just getting one but the economy went south about the same time and I hate to invest that much in a machine just to hunt open spaces...With Minelab's track record they would put another one out and the 5000 would loose alot of value ....

I still think once a decent disc circuit is incorporated into a P.I. I will get one ...

Speaking of the explorer I always thought the explorer had some sort of vlf/Pulse type hybrid setup going on.....The way it see's through mineral's is alot better than any other offering....

I remember reading when the Sovereign's first came out that they did not ground balance and then the explorer followed and did not ground balance...


The camp I mentioned that had the ringtails in it was an overnight spot and it rained on the cavalrymen pretty hard....They actually only went 3 miles before camping in this spot because of the rain....I had found it in a Diary and worked on it for a couple of year's with lot's of machine's and got probably around 60 Ringtail's out of there...I used tesoro's.....White's.....Nautilus....Fisher.....and my depth in the soil was usually the best with the all metal mode's and checking in disc.... any weak target's that was out of the disc I.D. range was dug...

Well I thought I had pretty much cleaned that spot out of the Ringtail sharp's and button's and such getting up to 14 inch deep item's.....


When the Explorer came out I got one and my first stopping spot was the ringtail camp in the wood's....had sens wide open 32 manual -13 iron mask nothing disced out....well to make along story short within a week I had recovered 127 sharp's and over 30 colt pistol teardrop's and depth's that you rarely see approached....They were all laying on the hardpan or right close to....they were in the 16-18 inch range....The dirt was pretty nice but under the surface at the 18-19 level was a clay gravel type mix and that's where the deepies settled....


I went back down there a few year's ago when they graded for a shopping center and the dirt was being moved and did not find anymore bullet's except for a pile of 40 right under a huge tree that was pushed over but they were all together and concentrated to one hole.....the explorer truly cleaned that spot out...


Still to this day the explorer will find stuff in mineral dirt other machine's call iron or just cant here...

Keith

Keith...... yes and yes.

Steve(MS)...... very good. Yes, ML is quite secret about their IP. Reverse engineering is the only way to find out.