Usable data vs depth vs seperation vs unmasking

OK - Since I am on the hunt for my next detector have been crusing the Youtube and reading from the well of knowledge - also known as Dankowski Detector Forum. So here are a few observations:

Usebable data - White's V3i has to be the King of data - but does not appear to be the king of depth or seperation or unmasking - maybe the duke or dutchess

Depth - OK - lets eliminate PI and stick with VLF - also lets go modern vs classic - so even after all that I have no idea - Blisstool maybe - F75 - CTX? - Blisstool - Data pesant, F75 prince maybe, CTX queen or prince depends

Seperation - Seeing too targets close by (responsiveness) - Maybe the new F75 with new FA Queen maybe - XP Dues I think is King but others opinions may vary

Unmasking - Euro something - they really focus on this more then we do - Not really sure which detector is at the top of this heap except I am pretty sure it comes from europe.

So now the $60,000 dollar question - which ability trumps the others - well lets assume that zero is not a realistic outcome so all of them have some data (sound) some depth (8 inches) some ability to see adjacent targets, and some ability to deal with iron.

My intial thought was depth followed closely by seperation and unmasking - but with out good data (or trustworthy discrimination) you may spend a lot of time digging whole ( but some say dig it all - not sure that is realistic or much fun)

So I guess we need a detector that can see two dimes on edge a 1/4 inch apart at a depth of 20 inches with a layer of nails above and the detector will tell us one is silver and the other is clad. - One can dream :-)

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Detectorists are by nature compulsively analytical. After studying this phenomenon obsessively I can truthfully say I have overcome that trait and can accept the conclusion that no detector or operational property trumps the others but they all work in synergy. Ones perspective of the activity prioritizes all of those traits with the addition of one you failed to mention---ergonomics. For many , the ability to swing a machine for extended hours makes the entire activity possible. Few detectors have determined values for the effort of sweeping either calculated or even considered except in anecdotal accounts from users. Weight is only one of the considerations and doesn't tell the entire story which is why detectors that may actually weigh more are sometimes easier and more user friendly than other lighter models when being used. The F75 vs Deus is one , the CTX vs the etrac is another. It would be nice to see a sweep effort calculation for all detectors with a "stock/standard coil" but the only one I ever see listed is the 75 @ 7.1 newtons.

Makro and Nokta have been very visible here lately . I wonder if they make or could provide the sweep effort calcs for their machines.

And don't forget.......... what are YOU (specifically) hunting for. Coins, Relics, Cache, Jewelry, Prospecting (or a combination thereof).
And.......... how are YOUR mineral/ground conditions.

shoveler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Detectorists are by nature compulsively
> analytical. After studying this phenomenon
> obsessively I can truthfully say I have overcome
> that trait and can accept the conclusion that no
> detector or operational property trumps the others
> but they all work in synergy. Ones perspective of
> the activity prioritizes all of those traits with
> the addition of one you failed to
> mention---ergonomics. For many , the ability to
> swing a machine for extended hours makes the
> entire activity possible. Few detectors have
> determined values for the effort of sweeping
> either calculated or even considered except in
> anecdotal accounts from users. Weight is only one
> of the considerations and doesn't tell the entire
> story which is why detectors that may actually
> weigh more are sometimes easier and more user
> friendly than other lighter models when being
> used. The F75 vs Deus is one , the CTX vs the
> etrac is another. It would be nice to see a sweep
> effort calculation for all detectors with a
> "stock/standard coil" but the only one I ever see
> listed is the 75 @ 7.1 newtons.
>
> Makro and Nokta have been very visible here lately
> . I wonder if they make or could provide the sweep
> effort calcs for their machines.

Yea I am definitely being over analytical - it was a little tongue and cheek or at least I intended it to be. Though the questions are are very valid. What got me going is watching a video of the V3i and how much data it provides - yet even with all that data most really seem to struggle to know if it is a nickel a pull tap or a foil cap they are about to dig. If there was ever a detector that could come close to giving you a decent clue it would be the V3i but then it does lack depth and is not that fast and has trouble unmasking. So if you learned its language it could be a great park hunter.

You have a great point on swinging fatigue some detectors just ware you out. if you ain't swinging you ain't detecting.

Tom - yes your favorite form of detecting is a huge influence on what you get along with where you plan on detecting.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Certainly a lot of variables to consider. My thoughts are: With current released machines, XP Deus, Nokta FORS Core pro pack, CTX 3030, and Fisher F19, Fisher F75LTD-2 all get the nod. Throw in some pretty bad mineral, the list dwindles to XP Deus, CTX 3030, Nokta FORS CoRe, and Fisher F19.
As far as good visual info at depth, the list dwindles to CTX 3030, Nokta FORS CoRe.
As far as weight the list dwindles to F19, XP Deus, F75LTD2.
As far as simple operation for max performance=Nokta FORS CoRE
Unmasking in iron with most intelligible tone/sound=Xp Deus, Nokta FORS CoRe
Unmasking in modern Trash=CTX 3030 with both small and stock coils
Pure raw depth in light to med mineralization=F75ltd2
Pure raw depth in medium mineralization= all machines listed
Pure raw depth in heavy mineralization=Xp Deus, FORS Core, F19
Visual info at depth for soil conditons=Nokta FORS CoRE, CTX 3030
Easy to swing=Nokta FORS Core, Xp Deus, F19, F75LTD-2
Overall audio clarity=Nokta FORS CoRe, Xp Deus, CTX 3030
Screen readout in sunshine=XP deus, Nokta FORS coRe, F19, F75LTD2
For coins=CTX3030
For relics=Xp Deus, F19, F75LTD2, Nokta FORS CoRe
For both=Xp Deus, Nokta FORS CoRe
Low Sweep speed sensitivity= XP Deus, Nokta FORS CoRe
Value for the $$$=Nokta FORS CoRe propack, F75LTD-2, note F19 if offered a coil package would probably make list

Lets not forget learning to use what you are swinging in your neck of the woods...

You read this forum you focus on what kind of hunting you do and then you read as much as you can and buy the machine that does the best for your hunting..I would say for coins and parks and iron and trash if the deus had a small coil it maybe the best one for now..give that some big software update is coming that may make it on of the top five for a lot of different hunting..If I and I at some point this year will get a second macnine it will be the racer or the Fors Co Re. I don't care for the Minelabs have had a few. Don't think whites has a clue how to move forward. Would like the try the new F75 and the F19 and all the rest don't interest me

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

And don't forget, when you consider a particular machine, you have to also consider the coils that are available for it. Example, fitting the 5" DD on the T2 / F75 makes it a better machine in 'busy' ground. Fitting larger-than-stock coils on some, but not all, machines makes them deeper.

Experience trumps all. If u can get any machine into the hands of an experienced hunter, they could make magic happen. CTX 3030 is a great "do it all" machine especially with its near perfect ID system, decent depth, and with the small coil, seperation.

"So I guess we need a detector that can see two dimes on edge a 1/4 inch apart at a depth of 20 inches with a layer of nails above and the detector will tell us one is silver and the other is clad. - One can dream :-)"

Although my statement above seems like a pipe dream - there is a way to achieve this kind of performance using currently available technology - or at least get very close. I would hope detector companies are already looking hard at ways to use these technologies to move the metal detecting high bar to the next level. This would build upon existing VLF methods - maybe also PI.

This is a very smart group so I am betting many of you already know to what technologies I am referring.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

I would hold out to see what the racer offers. Half of us are going to take the plunge. We are selling the other detectors listed to pay for it. So I can't tell you to get a Fors when I just sold one. What was the problem with your Safari?

Hi Bryanna,,,,It would be hard for anyone to make a sound recommendation of one machine over the other or any machine for that matter, without more information....Like Tom is asking what kind of items/stuff are you going to pursue plus soil conditions etc.....Without that info I would be only guessing too.....(without more info)..... I do however lean towards a validated F-75 with the stock & 5" coil and since I also believe you might be a female (dainty) it would fit you better....I'm sorry if I made an assumption that you are a female and you are not....Heck you could be six foot tall & bulletproof and have hands like Monkey Wrench's plus a six inch beard to boot for all I know....LoL...JJ

PS: Please don't beat me like a red headed step child if I was wrong...LoL...

Beyonder-Pa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Experience trumps all. If u can get any machine
> into the hands of an experienced hunter, they
> could make magic happen.

There is much wisdom in these statements. Your quantity/quality of finds depend far more on your knowledge/experience and your research/location that the hardware you carry.
Don't get too caught up in splitting hairs about the latest hardware. It's fun to do, and far too many of us spend far too much chasing that elusive 'holy grail' of detectors...whatever it might be this month.

But owning several (o.k. - too many) detectors, I can say the best detector in the world is the one in your hand when you pass it over a good target.


Good luck, and HH
mike

Nokta CoRe or Racer when it comes out next month.

We need to know what your hunting for mainly to exclusively and also your soil types and also the type areas you will hunt to get wanted targets..

I have alot of recommendations for you some you probably have not seen posted..

but to get a good setup for YOU..not someone else it requires some more info..

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 11:20PM by Keith Southern.

Bryannagirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shoveler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> .. What got me going is watching a video of
> the V3i and how much data it provides - yet even
> with all that data most really seem to struggle to
> know if it is a nickel a pull tap or a foil cap
> they are about to dig. If there was ever a
> detector that could come close to giving you a
> decent clue it would be the V3i but then it does
> lack depth and is not that fast and has trouble
> unmasking. So if you learned its language it
> could be a great park hunter.

I used to hunt with some friends that were into multiple machines, but had the Etrac and V3i. They were very skilled at using both machines, and both felt the V3i was equal in depth to the Etrac. They loved the analysis screen, whereas they could easily tell a crown cap from a legit target. Could almost tell a pull tab from a gold ring, almost. I think the problem with that machine is that it's so programmable, that you have more chances of getting it wrong then right. I like the ability to select individual frequencies, or the ability to use them all at the same time. In California mineralized soil that's an awesome feature, also makes for a great ocean beach machine (barring getting it wet!).

I've seen the V3i used in trashy, iron infested ghost town environments and they did as well or better then others that had more relic oriented machines, I've seen them pull out deep silver in well hunted parks, and gold rings at the beach. So I think it all comes down to what kind of detecting you want to do.

I am 5' 11" and female - I may not be dainty - not even close - but I am not muscalar so swinging something heavy or awkward or both is not good. So yes that is an issue.

Just curious why are people excited by the Racer that already have or have owned a Fores machine. Are they not the same machine with different packaging - bigger display smaller control box, lighter weight but other then that sounds like they are the same - are they doing anything different with the Racer that makes people want to switch other then a lighter more compact package?

The Safari was fine - it was heavy but other then that I liked it - Minelabs tones sang to me better then whites - they where able to communicate the nuance of what I was swinging over better - that was true for both the Sovereign and Safari. I have detectoritis after I have a detector for a while I get an itch for a different one. ;-)

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Are you after coins?Jewelry?relics?

Is your ground loamy? or mineral rich? are you a modern trash hunter for your finds or are you an old site hunter where iron is your enemy...Do you like to search in the water..

on the Racer people are hoping its as good as (or better is always welcome ) the CoRe...The racer should offer more Info and maybe be a bit more ergonomic appeal...

alot more people would alredy have the CoRe if the Racer had not revealed itself early...the CoRe was only out about 2 months before the Racer was revealed...so its a waiting game...The CoRe is excellent but the Racer may be more...so WONT BE LONG NOW I PROMISE...

Keith

Hi Keith,,,,,There was a song out years ago, called, Little Red Riding Hood by Sam The Sham & The Pharaohs...I wonder if the book was any better?...LoL....JJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 11:42PM by jimmyjiver.

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WONT BE LONG NOW I PROMISE...
>
> Keith


Hmmmm... you are talking about the field report your about to post correct?

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you after coins?Jewelry?relics?
>
> Is your ground loamy? or mineral rich? are you a
> modern trash hunter for your finds or are you an
> old site hunter where iron is your enemy...Do you
> like to search in the water..
>
> on the Racer people are hoping its as good as (or
> better is always welcome ) the CoRe...The racer
> should offer more Info and maybe be a bit more
> ergonomic appeal...
>
> alot more people would alredy have the CoRe if the
> Racer had not revealed itself early...the CoRe was
> only out about 2 months before the Racer was
> revealed...so its a waiting game...The CoRe is
> excellent but the Racer may be more...so WONT BE
> LONG NOW I PROMISE...
>
> Keith

Currently I live in a city - I want to find old deep silver - who doesn't - if I lived near a beach I would be a big time beachcomber. I like old things like me :-) or a walk on a beach both are good. If I lived in the southwest I may try my hand at prospecting. So I am talking three different detectors. Relic/coin, Beach, Prospecting.

Right now it will be relic/coin in moderate ground - lots of old, but very trashy parks. So separation and some unmasking and deep - looks like the good stuff around here is down 10 inches or more. I mention beach and southwest because there is a chance I might move to one or the other for work. South Texas or Southeast New Mexico or Western Texas

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Bryanna....

Go with the CTX for where your at now....Moderate ground,modern trash,10 inch coins

Pricy but worth it...

Keith

If I were you I'd I'd pick up a quiet running used Explorer for $300-400 and see if the hobby sticks. If it does, great, then trade up. I've seen too many new detectorists get cold feet when they actually have to get out in the field and detect.

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I were you I'd I'd pick up a quiet running used
> Explorer for $300-400 and see if the hobby sticks.
> If it does, great, then trade up. I've seen too
> many new detectorists get cold feet when they
> actually have to get out in the field and detect.


Been there done that - been detecting since 2010 - took a break last year but still found myself missing it. So have say the Fores Core and new Racer seem very appealing.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

I believe the CTX will be too heavy, not enjoyable to you. It does perform. Might want to wait, maybe ML will release a lighter, even better machine.

lets not forget wifi phones and light weight ,these can trump ,other goodpoints ,many brits wont now consider a machine without wifi phones despite its good points in other areas

with wifi phones you are not held back when digging more holes compared with plumbed in headphones with wires



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 02:29PM by diggers.

The minelabs are the only machine I'm aware of that can accurately tell the difference between a silver and clad dime, even at depth. Combined with the stop you in youre tracks audio and this really adds enjoyment to the hobby. The seperation isnt as bad if you open it up disc wise. No personal experience w/a ctx, but I understand you can assign the tones to make all audio not be overwhelming.

Keith mentioned the CTX3030. I agree, with him and it should not be eliminated because of weight. Consider the harness that Minelab has as an accessory to help with the weight.
The other plus is that the CTX is a great salt beach detector should you get the opportunity to salt water beach detect. If you walk the surf, salt spray and splash are not a problem because of its design.
I too used the Safari and GT, both are wonderful and I still have both, but the information the CTX provides at depth makes it very special.

DJK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith mentioned the CTX3030. I agree, with him
> and it should not be eliminated because of weight.
> Consider the harness that Minelab has as an
> accessory to help with the weight.
> The other plus is that the CTX is a great salt
> beach detector should you get the opportunity to
> salt water beach detect. If you walk the surf,
> salt spray and splash are not a problem because of
> its design.
> I too used the Safari and GT, both are wonderful
> and I still have both, but the information the CTX
> provides at depth makes it very special.

What about used Etrac - lighter almost same info - almost. Or the new Racer or the Current Fors CoRe

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Used Etrac is a great choice and can be had pretty cheap right now. Some like it better on the beach than the ctx (though not waterproof). You also have unlimited coil options, ctx not so much and the coils available are costly