Makro Racer Field Test

I think the fact it has Modulated audio at all puts it ahead of the F-75 for deep turf coin hunting. Maybe relic hunting it would be different. Then again that is just the way I like to hunt as to listen for the softer deeper hopefully ''Older hit's''.

Best take away of Racer vs F75 is this is the NONCASTRATED F75 ---will be interesting to see how one of the "steer" F75's compare. I have a 6 month old "Bull" 75 and I'm not going to send it,it's free, to be made a "steer".

Well,I am one of the few here that has never owned a t2/f75. The emi issues and q.c. issues that have been reported ,always kept me away. Did have an f-70 got in a labor trade,but sold it to get gb pro. Anyway, maybe I can get f-75 performance in an economical,solidly built package...with a light n vibration,lol. Will wait for yalls continued reports,thanks. Ray

Kevin B Wrote:
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> All I ask, if for the Racer to be deeper than my
> F19 with 13 inch Ultimate. In my soil. That
> will be the deciding factor if I buy one or not.

I'll get a racer and then we can compare at a CW relic hunting site!

Hi,,,I don't think the Racer is a slimmed down copycat version of the F-75/T2....The frequencies are different for starters then we get to the other additions like the vibration & light....This basically tells you the company/designers are not lazy and are trying some new innovated ideas.....The Racer may be similar in the way it functions but that don't make it a clone of another machine....Another thing is the testers/reviewers are just giving you a machines name that the Racer shares the same characteristics too....Just my opinion and yes they paid me big to say that....LoL......JJ


PS: Cha-Ching money,money,Money....I think I will take a big trip now..LoL..

jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,,,I don't think the Racer is a slimmed down
> copycat version of the F-75/T2....The frequencies
> are different for starters then we get to the
> other additions like the vibration & light....This
> basically tells you the company/designers are not
> lazy and are trying some new innovated
> ideas.....The Racer may be similar in the way it
> functions but that don't make it a clone of
> another machine....Another thing is the
> testers/reviewers are just giving you a machines
> name that the Racer shares the same
> characteristics too....Just my opinion and yes
> they paid me big to say that....LoL......JJ
>
>
> PS: Cha-Ching money,money,Money....I think I will
> take a big trip now..LoL..



You WISH you got paid Jimmy! lol

What you say about the machine/s is TRUE though ;-)

bubbadirect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kevin B Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All I ask, if for the Racer to be deeper than
> my
> > F19 with 13 inch Ultimate. In my soil. That
> > will be the deciding factor if I buy one or
> not.
>
> I'll get a racer and then we can compare at a CW
> relic hunting site!

Hopefully you have a CW relic site that has not had everything already dug out of it. I hunted 6 hours yesterday and found several pieces of camp lead (about the size of a grain of popcorn). My BIG find was a corner piece of a harmonica reed. Plumb depressing but it was bound to happen. I simply got into the game about 15 years too late. From what I gather, the Racer is really hot on the tiny stuff (but then, so is my G2 and F-19). So it should really find the camp lead.

Hi,,,,It would take some mighty big buckaroo's/bread/greenbacks for me to stick up for them again....These $5.00 days are over I'm going to hold out for $10.00 next time..LoL... The only way to be 100% sure it's not a copy is to take it apart and do some comparing,but I don't think it is at all.....I know there is a lot of reverse engineering going on too.....JJ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 12:31AM by jimmyjiver.

Ok....... real-world field test report. In bulletized fashion:

* Continuously thought I was hunting with a T2 all day. Had to look at the unit to verify it is something different. (Not to implicate negative connotations ...... as this may not be a bad thing).

* The last (approx.) 20% of detection range..... the unit is functioning in all-metal. Weak targets do not have enough signal strength to generate a VDI ID; yet, there is a positive/intelligible audio response. (Common with many detectors). (((Keep in mind...... many detectors do not even achieve the fringe depths this unit achieves/ascertains when 5" DD coil installed))). YET..... all is not lost........,,,,,,,,,,,, as, with a little experience...... you can learn what is ferrous .... and what is not ferrous...... at these fringe depths.

* I categorize this detector as a 'relic' detector for it's primary function/attribute. It is not exactly a 'coins' hunter.

* There is too much depth lost whilst in 3-Tone option, subsequently, I will never use the 3-Tone option in Florida (fast sink-rate) dirt. This leaves only the 2-Tone option for any form of ID mode.

* Rules of physics are applicable with this detector. (((GMP/Deus somewhat defy a few physics principles))).

* This unit follows the same/identical 'up-averaging' principle as the T2/F75 platform. Rust flecks/flakes in close proximity to a non-ferrous target will cause the ID to 'up-average'. A solid nail (or piece of iron) in close proximity to a non-Fe target..... will cause ID down-average. Deep targets (in general) will 'up-average' in Florida inert dirt.

* All aspects (electronically speaking) of pinpoint feature is identical to T2/F75. Pinpointing (a non-Fe target) in carpets of nails is a total failure. Pinpointing a target in clean dirt (no other targets in extreme close proximity) is flawlessly accurate. However; coil design (DD config) allows for easy pinpointing without invoking pinpoint function.

* Unit does qualify as a micro-jewelry capable unit; however/yet..... at a 35% reduced performance level as compared to 71-Khz Fisher Gold Bug-2.

* This unit is nearly exactly the same performance as a F75 LTD/SE in 'bp' mode when unit is equipped with 5" DD coil; however, one (major) difference: This Racer unit presents a continuous open audio-gate (and tone-blending) architect whereby the audio reporting system is always instantly 'continuous'.... to what ever is underneath the coil at any given split second. This feature alone..... is what allows for better/enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics. The T2/F75...... and most other detectors.... for that matter..................... will take a 'snap-shot' of a target...... and report a audio 'beep'. Once the 'beep' starts............ it has a programmed 'audio length' that cannot/willnot be interrupted ....... even though the coil is still in motion...... passing over other/more targets. Once the preprogrammed audio length 'beep' is complete....... the detector is now reset....... and ready to audibly report another target....... even though a few more targets had been passed over...... while the unit was 'busy' reporting one target. This one advantageous feature alone...... on the Racer.......... allows for approx. 7% additional/enhanced adjacent target separation abilities....... over/vs the 'snap-shot' methodology. This is NOT to be (easily) confused with 'unmasking'. Adjacent target separation & Unmasking are quite different. To the best of my knowledge...... only the XP GMP/Deus ........ for the first time in history........ 'start' to genuinely 'unmask'. (Only a few percent...... but that's a start/precedence).

* The internal (non-adjustable) tone break set-point where Makro/Nokta has delineated Fe from Non-Fe appears to be exacting.......... and I'm actually glad that it is not user adjustable. Learn it. Learn the audio. It's rewarding.

* When hunting in carpets of nails for non-ferrous relics....... body rotation around a target whilst continuously sweeping coil........ is a critical skillset/tool. The age/decomposition status of the site-specific nails/iron... dictates how a non-ferrous target (in co-locate with ferrous item(s) ).... responds as you rotate your body around the target. You will find a certain/specific 'percentage' of body rotation....... as to 'how long' a non-ferrous target holds on to a non-ferrous tone whilst rotating around the target. . . . . which............ in turn........ gives a percentage/probability of a non-ferrous target being in co-locate with ferrous targets.

* When you are rotating your body around a potential non-Fe target (in co-locate with ferrous targets)........ seeking to find pass/fail body rotation percentage ......... to see if it's the tip of a nail that is 'falsing'.......... the false non-ferrous tone usually ID's as a '85' (silver dime). Hence/justification/rationalization to NOT look at the VDI numbers whilst detecting in carpets of (human co-habitation common) nails.

* This unit is quite EMI stable.

* With 5" DD coil installed......... it is Flagship deep. Head-to-Head (neck-n-neck) with F75 LTD in boost-process mode.

* Saying it again....... yet, said differently: there is full audio dependency with Racer. In carpets of nails....... rely exclusively/strictly by audio. Never look at VDI. When there are 4 nails and a button under the coil........ what/how do you expect to see a ID/VDI reading.

* This unit overloads fairly easily...... even with small (shallow) targets. I never viewed this as a issue/problem.

* In carpets of nails........ you can run the Disc (ID filter) all the way down to a setting of '1'.......... and still retain a fairly sane level of audio intelligibility (minimal fatigue). That says quite a bit........ especially whilst in nail-infested sites. A Disc (ID filter) of '0' is do'able; yet, can easily audibly fatigue the user/operator. This is where the unit starts to detect/report soil mineral variations.

* This unit (with 11" DD coil installed) will not hunt behind a F75 SE in boost-process mode...... and find coins. It will nearly match it (in 2-Tone)...... but not surpass.

Now that all the buzz is beginning to settle into a slightly more intelligible murmur , I think my first impulse was the correct one and I will continue to attempt to obtain that F75rev2 "tuned" by Tom.
If there was truly something unique and revolutionary about the Racer , it would have surfaced by now in these capable/unpurchased hands.

Lots of great information Tom. I have a question. When you performed your test/comparisons, was this/these test performed in neutral dirt setting as well as mineralized dirt setting???

shoveler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that all the buzz is beginning to settle into
> a slightly more intelligible murmur , I think my
> first impulse was the correct one and I will
> continue to attempt to obtain that F75rev2 "tuned"
> by Tom.
> If there was truly something unique and
> revolutionary about the Racer , it would have
> surfaced by now in these capable/unpurchased
> hands.

Exactly as I called it too = "not a coin hunter" but a RELIC machine most of all ;-)

Thanks for the report Tom = very informative

Tom, my question is under the same conditions would the Racer match or surpass a tuned CZ3D in depth ?

Wow!!! Now there's some info to chew on and digest. It makes me wonder how the 5x 10 coil would work!!!! But the 5 inch coil's abilities sound great! I wish that they would let the consumer pick their own package. I would order a Racer with the 5 inch coil and maybe the 5x10 coil. Man, this is some good info.

Hi Tom,,,,thanks for another informative report....I'm wondering about the three tone mode, is there a lot of noise/chatter while using this mode?....Also you say it loses approximately 15% with 5" DD coil installed while using the three tone mode...You also say it gets 10.6" on a clad dime in Florida dirt while using the two tone mode...So is it safe to say it should get approximately 9.01" while using the three tone mode?....I'm also curious when using the three tone mode if the discriminator circuit still discriminates correctly at it's full depth?....And finally the last question for now, in the three tone mode with the stock coil installed how deep does it go?.........Thanks again.....JJ

Thanks for the review. Looking for more depth in salt mode.

Great report Tom!

Good write up Tom!!

Your findings mirror mine in alot of ways..


As I ponder my findings on the Racer vs CoRe with small coil Vs Small coil...Im starting to think the small coil on the Racer is seeing deeper larger items than the small coil on the CoRe... hence more deep iron falses...i.e. solid 83's till closer to the coil...

the small coil on the CoRe airtest deep but in the dirt its not that deep on larger items..it finds slivers of small stuff on the CoRe like no other... I think on the CoRe the small coil is not seeing deep iron like the small coil is on the Racer...

Keith

Tom thanks for taking the time to test this machine in the detailed manor you always do, and for telling it like it is, even if sometimes you have to (somewhat) read between the lines

Questions I would have:

How do you feel the auto-tracking works? This is a feature I wish I had on my F75 LTD2 (as well as the adjustable backlight)?

It appeared that initially they were designing it around the 5" x 10" DD coil, and then switched to the 11" DD. Being that the 5" DD is on par with the F75 LTD, it would be (VERY) interesting to see where the 5x10 coil sits, as that's a very usable size for detecting relic sites.

Also as you are comparing it to the F75 LTD, does the F75 LTD2 have any advantage?

TIA!
Brian

Several more thoughts/things to share:

* It is priceless that Nokta/Makro takes the high-road when it comes to constructive criticism and praises. And to have the ability to keep all of this field-testing 'above board'.......... out in the open public eye.......... is value-added. I do believe this unit is probably a 'production' unit........... although with these collective inputs....... they 'may' make some small changes on the production line.

* 'WHY' would I compare the Racer to a French XP or Fisher/Teknetics. 'WHAT' methodology/rationalization justifies these other units for head-to-head comparison.
This units 'niche' is = Relic hunting in carpets of nails. This is exactly where the XP and Fisher/Tek (only when 5" DD coil is installed) are also at it's best. . . . . justifying apples-to-apples comparison.

* I do not have a CoRe for head-to-head; yet, I speculate the comparison 'closeness' would generate a moot point.

* It is the 11" Racer DD coil that I compare with/to the Fisher 11" DD coil for head-to-head comparison. And 5" DD coil to 5" DD coil. Once again...... apples-to-apples.

* So far...... all of my testing has been performed in neutral/inert dirt (although/however..... saturated with 'rust'). I do have some fairly heavily mineralized dirt that I hope to find a chance/time to test this unit.

* If a CZ-3D is equipped with a 5" coil and Racer w/5" coil......... both are nearly identical in coin depth performance; yet/however....... if trash content is high (especially iron)....... the Racer is ..... hands-down....... a clear winner. Now...... if the CZ is equipped with the 8" coil and Racer is equipped with 11" DD standard coil..... a properly tuned CZ will surpass the Racer in depth on copper/silver coins.

* The 3-Tone mode on the Racer is a very quiet/stable mode. The 2-Tone mode appears to employ a form of 'boost process' ....... or similar. The 3-Tone mode presents approx. a 15% overall depth loss.... regardless of which (5" or 11" ) coil is installed. I do want to perform more definitive testing on this.

* I have not tested the auto tracking feature yet.

* With the 11" DD coil installed..... and 3-Tone selected........ it does seem to hold a greater level of true target ID to depth. This may be due to the 3-Tone (non-boosted) reduced depth performance/stabilized presentation.

* The unit does have more EMI chatter when the 11" DD coil is installed (vs the 5" coil)........ as to be expected; yet, is controllable/manageable.

* Interesting to see these accolades in a $600 unit....... and/yet.......... head-to-head compare it to a $1000 (or $2500 CTX-3030) unit. Makes a statement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 11:50AM by NASA-Tom.

Very significant!!! Metal detecting industry impacted greatly IMO. Should cause concern for many manufacturers-CERTAINLY. Will be interesting to see their next releases and other manufacturers as well. Are/Will some makers be caught flatfooted?? Probably already are!! These product lines should make huge cuts into others market share. I fully expect more Makro/Nokta distributors to come to light. Wouldn't be surprised to see them set up shop here in USA. Folks want the most performance for the $$$ spent.
Just think-high performance, solid build, good ergonomics, and shipped from abroad (extra shipping costs incurred) and still AFFORDABLE for many.
I congratulate you Nokta/Makro!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 01:00PM by tnsharpshooter.

Thanks Tom. & Keith.

Thanx Keith and Tom for providing an insight into this new kid on the block!

HH
Johnb

Excellent reviews and I was able to determine the Racer currently is not for me. Maybe the Racer Gold?
I applaud Makro on their first attempt to give the US treasures hunters what they are looking for at a very reasonable price.
I am sure Makro marketing will look at all this and future machines will incorporate any improvements recommended.......................
Looking forward to future designs produced by Makro............

Hmmm, just think if Makro had an entry level, priced model.............

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

Hi,,,Thanks again Tom, you basically answered all of my questions and confirmed my beliefs and thoughts....I really applaud the way you lay it on the line regardless of the machines manufacture make or model....This machine seems to offer a good bang for the buck, but I'm pretty certain it's not for me...I feel I might not be able to adapt to the V.C.O. audio and this seems to be this machines strongest point....I'm here and ready to absorb any more data you can throw my way.....JJ



PS: edit changed I to I'm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 07:01PM by jimmyjiver.

Quote from Tom:
"* If a CZ-3D is equipped with a 5" coil and Racer w/5" coil......... both are nearly identical in coin depth performance; yet/however....... if trash content is high (especially iron)....... the Racer is ..... hands-down....... a clear winner. Now...... if the CZ is equipped with the 8" coil and Racer is equipped with 11" DD standard coil..... a properly tuned CZ will surpass the Racer in depth on copper/silver coins."

I'll stick with my 1021 Tom validated CZ-3D for now... as I am a coin hunter.

This machine MAY be for me,since I dont have an f75 or T-2. Toms small coil results really perk my interest. Want to see Keiths and Steves testing on small gold. If that sounds as good or better than my gb pro, Ill buy one. If not,maybe I will wait for the racer gold. Nokta, dont let honest results keep you from doing what your doing...your on the right track...Quality at affordable price. Ray

Deathray, maybe Keith will do the ole bic pen test with Racer and maybe the CoRe. CoRe unit I think already passed.

goodmore Wrote:
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> Findmall sticks by their sponsors. The Guv has
> strict rules about posts. The dollar always wins.
> Just like the detecting mags. I want to hear what
> a detector is good at and what it does poorly. I
> got tired of arguing in the views section. I have
> a much better outlook on things when I stop
> communicating with people I despise. I watch the
> classifieds and that is about it.

And he is correct that forum is heavily censored and at times near useless.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Deathray, maybe Keith will do the ole bic pen test
> with Racer and maybe the CoRe. CoRe unit I think
> already passed.


I sent him off a few small pieces of gold today ,for him to play with. I know how they hit on my gb pro,so can compare.