Have trouble walking to detect, consider this..............

Some folks may have difficulty with walking a lot either from a disease, injury, or old(er) age. The Nokta CoRe unit and the Makro Racer unit, both with small coils attached, can be taken to yards/areas with lots of iron/trash and the operator really doesn't have to do as much walking like maybe they would with another detector. You can literally stand in one spot and turn while sweeping and maneuver the small coil ever so slowly and step and repeat, after time you've really not walked much. Most other detectors will not separate as well, causing you not to be able to hear the good targets, hence forcing you to walk more to find a good detectable nonferrous target.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 12:19PM by tnsharpshooter.

Dude,your working hard to sell that Racer!lol. Are you a dealer? Same case could be made for say an etrac...you gotta go slow and listen for the faint hits.

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dude,your working hard to sell that Racer!lol. Are
> you a dealer? Same case could be made for say an
> etrac...you gotta go slow and listen for the faint
> hits.

So, you noticed too!!

No dealer, I've used my CoRe unit and watched Jack's videos. If you'll notice in his videos, he's not walking around a great deal. More sweeping and small coil movements vs continous walking. And I believe if you'll try to use an etrac and CoRe and Racer in the same trashy area, you'll indeed see what I'm saying is in fact true. Sure a person could even use a F75 with small coil in trashy areas to get almost similar results, but NASA Tom, in his testing has stated Racer separates better than F75LTD2 with small coil attached.
So on paper the CoRe/Racer it seems would lend themselves to a person finding good nonferrous targets in areas with high amounts of trash and iron with fewer steps taken. My statement is based on facts of detectors separation and law of averages. And I believe it has merit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 11:17AM by tnsharpshooter.

Im not trying to be a jackass,but that is no different than ANY detector/small coil combo. Trying to understand how this makes a core/racer special.

Ray,
Consider the following. Imagine an old house yard and let's say for argument sake, the yard is medium sized and not real trashy and we know there are several silver dimes there at 9" deep. Now you have an ace 250 you hunt the yard, you zig and walk around making circles, gridding and only dig 1 silver dime. And you figure after your hunt with ace 250 the site is more or less dead. How many steps did you walk with detector in hand. And you found 1 silver dime.

Now go into the same yard again using all the stipulations as above. Do you think you would find more silver dimes using etrac with less walking. And remember the time it takes to dig more silver dimes would infact cut into your detecting time, this too would contribute to less walking.

So I could make the same case for etrac as well in my original post, but remember when the site is real trashy/load of nails/iron, depth is really not achievable, but separation is. And this separation level achieved is dependent on you detector and attached coil.

I really believe over the last 10 years for example, more silver coinage has been located and dug using minelabs with fewer steps taken as compared to other brands. Partly due to their ability to give good tone on deep silver and the other part in their ability to give a better TID on the deep silver as well. But the areas hunted were more moderate to cleaner areas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 11:57AM by tnsharpshooter.

Many ways to detect...even know one fellow that at times will walk backward to change what his coil goes over. Of course with any unit you could stand still and spin and work in a circle but imagine you would have to have a slow unit to work to max performance. Don't know beans about the unit you speak of so can't comment. Never could master going backwards but have walked left or right just to change up as if you hunt a small area you will find yourself hunting the same area. For whats it worth the best swing I ever saw was a women in her sixties using a left handed swing..So whatever works comes to mind...Just watch a planted hunt sometime and you will really see a variety of swings...Starting to warm up so hope its not too hard to change to my natural swing from a snowshovel swing...

Dan your shoveling has probably done more for you you than me. I haven't had the snow totals as you, no shoveling. Just Sunday, I went and hunted. I could tell my sitting around because of extreme cold and snow, my body was not at it best for swinging.

In my original post, I think it's a fair statement to make. Once we sweep our coil a few times while using discrimination and we cannot detect a tone of a dig me signal, we have no choice but to step forward and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, until we do find a dig me signal. Now in the trashier areas and areas with extreme nails/iron, this stepping forward swinging and repeating will occur moreso using a detector that has a lesser capability in the unmasking/separation department on average compared to detector/coil arrangement that has higher capability when it comes to unmasking/separating.

Just basically detector capability and law of averages. This can be applied to say deeper seeking coin capable detectors vs shallower capability coin detecting detectors as well, but would apply more to overall cleaner ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 03:01PM by tnsharpshooter.

A person can do the same thing with a small coil Compadre and a 5 gallon bucket to sit on in a target rich environment !

Never ran a Compadre, can it hunt mostly all sites with just a flip of power switch, or does it take a little knowing/experience to get the disc setting correct for optimum performance in trash/iron??? And remember not all are tremendously experienced, especially folks new to the hobby or thinking about taking the plunge.

You really can't walk much with a small coil you are at a snail's pace but if you turn the deus on and know how to program it you can use a bigger coil and hunt in the same trash and or iron..turn your reactivity up to 4 and swing fast then lock in on the VDI you want to dig..Lower you sens to about 80 you don't need depth and you can use more disc. I have a racer coming and I will do test on both detectors so we will see.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

My point is you make it sound unique to the core/racer. Hell,me and a buddy stayed on our knees(no gay) all day in one spot around a tree...pulled 40 old coins. I was using a tesoro and sov. Your acting like the racer is the only detector with a small coil. Hell,even with a bigger coil,if you are in trash,you gotta go slow.

Ray, it is unique, flip on power switch, ground balance and go. Sure more experienced folks can/would be successful with some of the other detectors with small coils attached.
But the learning curve/experience factor is far less to achieve great performance with CoRe and Racer than most of the other units. And Keith has alluded to this on this forum and others.

If you'ill point me to a detector that will yield same performance with even simpler operation, please direct me. Then I will post about it and forget about the CoRe and Racer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 04:18PM by tnsharpshooter.

Hombre Wrote:
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> A person can do the same thing with a small coil
> Compadre and a 5 gallon bucket to sit on in a
> target rich environment !


I like the small coil Compadre & 5 gallon bucket idea the best!!!-----Why---I could just keep turning my butt on that bucket swingin in a complete circle!!!-----Shucks, I'll bet that would work EVEN if you weren't in a target rich area!------Wait, wait---I'd STILL have to get up off my butt & walk to move the bucket once in awhile! --------I think we all need to get out & do some hunting---small OR large coils! ha ha

It's all a matter of how you look at things.

In my opinion, what makes a good trashy area coin detector, is a detector that has great ID ability to pull coins out of non wanted junk items. Not only to pull coins out of the area, but to be selective on what coins you pull out of there.

You used Jack as an example, so I will use sites like he is hunting to lay how I see it out on the table.

If I were hunting a site like he is...trash filled sidewalks, etc. I would want a machine that could work in the trash with the ability to cherry pick good coins out of it. NOT all of the coins. Just the good ones. That's the one thing about a Minelab...no digging of pennies if you don't want to dig them. If I came in there with a CTX and 6 inch coil, and hunted a 10 feet section, got ONLY two good silver sounding signals I liked and dug two silver dimes, then I would be happy. It wouldn't matter to me if someone came in behind me with another machine and dug 100 holes, and pulled out 20 zinc pennies and 80 pieces of aluminum shards, or even vice versa, 80 pennies and 20 pieces of trash. In my view..I got the better finds out of the spot, and am 200+ yards up the street cherry picking silver from the other strips too. In someone else's view, I only dug 2 coins while they came in behind a $1500 detector and found 20 coins, or 80...even though they were just pennies. I'd rather dig two holes and have the two silver dimes than digging 20 or 80 holes for pennies. But that's just me. The only penny I like digging is a indian head lol

For some it's a numbers game. For others its maximizing the productivity of finds vs the wasted time of digging junk.

I personally don't like digging junk. Now, if the Racer or CoRe had the capablity to offer superb ID for cherry picking coins out of trash, and the super fast recovery speed to go along with it....then it would be a game changer for sure. From what I am seeing in the videos though...including Jack's 30 minute one he posted...is that a LOT of junk is being dug that sounds pretty good via audio. But you gotta remember...I'm the guy that throws those memorial pennies into my trash pouch. Where I personally think the CoRe or Racer machines excel...is for the relic hunter looking to dig all non ferrous items out of a site like an old mill or abandoned home site. If you are coin hunting a well kept lawn of an older home or park..you're not going to be able to dig holes everywhere like Jack is doing on those construction site sidewalks. You are going to have to be selective on what you dig, or risk getting kicked off the property for good. Otherwise, like mentioned above...someone could take a Compadre with small coil and do the exact same thing...set the disc above foil and dig everything that beeps, dig like a mad man. My goal when coin hunting in trash is to dig less quantity of holes...but fill the good side of the pouch with silver. And leave all the trash and clad behind. The only clad I like, are quarters.

I agree on filling pouch with silver. I have dug several silver dimes with Etrac/CTX that gave good tone and ID 12-39 thru 12-43. These silver dimes actually ID'd as pennies and even a tad lower TID than pennies. And the silver dimes that came in low and were dug were all worn. So on worn silver and worn copper coins, one may cheat themselves if they're not careful, by depending on the TID information while using Etrac/CTX. I have even seen worn silver quarters come in as both dime and penny TID.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 05:40PM by tnsharpshooter.

Thats why minelab guys use tone first ,Tnn. War nickels are perfect example.
Funny thing is,I am considering a Racer, but not for what yall have stated,except simplicity. No offense meant,but I hate digging clad,and really not interested in trashy parks or yards,with one exception. I want early gold rush items...and so far,only Tom and Keiths report on the small coils abilities,has me interested.But back to your original topic, I still do not see ANY difference in manufacturers when it comes to using a small coil in trash,and how with a Racer/Core somehow it magically makes you go way slower than any other.

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats why minelab guys use tone first ,Tnn. War
> nickels are perfect example.
> Funny thing is,I am considering a Racer, but not
> for what yall have stated,except simplicity. No
> offense meant,but I hate digging clad,and really
> not interested in trashy parks or yards,with one
> exception. I want early gold rush items...and so
> far,only Tom and Keiths report on the small coils
> abilities,has me interested.But back to your
> original topic, I still do not see ANY difference
> in manufacturers when it comes to using a small
> coil in trash,and how with a Racer/Core somehow it
> magically makes you go way slower than any other.

Ray,
Let's assume we have brand X detector with small coil and brand Y detector with small coil. Brand X detector with small coil, through laboratory test shows it out separates brand Y detector with small coil by 15%. Both brands are reported to have identical depth capabilities in like mineralized soil.
So on average in a site that has heavy trash/nails/iron, there will be targets Brand Y detector will not alert the user to that Brand X detector in fact, can alert the user to. So in a site the person using brand X detector will be digging nonferrous targets that Brand Y detector user couldn't detect. Hence Brand Y detector user has to keep sweeping and walking to find nonferrous targets they consider worthy. Brand Y detector user might even have to leave the site and find another because Brand Y detector user has exhausted their detector's capability in trying to find any more worthy targets in said site. In all the while, Brand X detector user is still digging worthy nonferrous targets in the said site.

Yes a person can take any detector with small coil to a polluted site, and they can stay there until doomsday and walk very little, and they may find some things depending on target layout amongst the iron/trash. But in the end the site for all practical purposes will have a drop dead time/date, based on the detector that's being used capabilities in the depth/separation department. The person who's using the detector that separates/unmask the best will have a later drop dead time/date as opposed to someone using a less performing detector in the separation/unmasking department.

Remember, for argument sake, the above scenario stipulates all users are experts/know their respective Brand X and Brand Y machines.

Sorta like open field hunting, do you notice when you start finding relics in fairly short succession, what happens?? You stop walking right. And the person who's accompanying you, if they haven't found anything what are they doing? Still walking and sweeping while you're digging, Correct.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 07:09PM by tnsharpshooter.

WHAT IF I had a Racer in my right hand an a CoRe in my left hand?? Would I ever get home to see MaMa or would I be stationary for how long??

If you are hunting a postwar site where the silver is going to be rosies, occasional mercs and Washington quarters then, strictly from a coin perspective assuming you have no interest in clad or memorials, odds are you won't be missing too much if you ignore the copper and zinc hits.

But if you are at an older site you will be. I've dug numerous older silvers that hit more like coppers or lower in the ID range. Older wheaties and Indians will likewise often fall into the zinc range or lower. Some that I have dug have been surprisingly shallow. The older the coin, the more likely it is to fall lower on the conductivity scale than the same denomination newer coin.

Sunday was a good example of this for me. I got a solid shallow 81-82 signal on my AT Pro that I said to myself memorial penny before I dug. Instead out popped a 1906 Barber dime at about 3".

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHAT IF I had a Racer in my right hand an a CoRe
> in my left hand?? Would I ever get home to see
> MaMa or would I be stationary for how long??

When you return find you someone who is a Doctor of Jurisprudence.

I get the feeling you love to hear yourself talk...about Core/Racer. Do you even have a Racer? Im done with this nonsense.

I put a 6 inch coil on my etrac. Disc out iron. Search a basketball court and just stay on my knees for the 2 hours it takes to make it one pass across the end. There's a target every 4 inches if you want it?

Yep, that's the trade off in cherry picking. You know you'll leave some stuff behind but in some sites, you really don't have the opportunity to dig every single signal, or maybe not the time either. I am a good example of this. I have been working 7 days a week for the past 8 months. The only days I have gotten off, are the main DAY of Labor Day (not the weekend of...just the day), Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day. I've been pulling 10 and 12 hour shifts inside of those weeks too. But on occasion, I will get a "comp" day...in which if we work 19 days straight without taking any time off, we get a comp day off. So here and there, I have gotten a day off and after getting everything caught up that I have gotten so far behind on (things around the house, etc)...then I might go grab the detector and find a spot nearby to hit for a couple hours. In that couple hours time...I don't want to spend it by digging pop tops, can slaw, etc. I'll go hit a site and cherry pick the easy coins and then go to the house. Yeah I dig a few memorial cents but most are pre 1982. I have figured out the zinc cent sound on the detector and don't even bother digging. I might leave something good behind by doing so...but who is to say that we haven't already walked over a 14k ring with a 1 caret solitaire diamond in it, worth a few thousand dolllars, by thinking it was a piece of foil? You can't dwell on what you leave behind. And you are gonna drive yourself nuts digging all the foil signals everywhere you go, in order to keep from missing jewelry. Same with coins IMO. A gold $1 piece will read as foil on most detectors...including the CTX. I'd like to have one for sure, but I'm probably not gonna do it while coin hunting. If I find one at all it will be by relic hunting...

If I am relic hunting...I go into a totally different zone and mindset. I dig everything that isn't a nail. Yep. I clean out everything non ferrous and then if the site permits me to do so, I will go back on later days and dig the bigger iron as well. I've got one site in town that I have hit with every VLF machine I've ever owned...but not only that, I have gleamed it clean with pulse machines as well. I am almost to the point of saying that I would buy a person a steak of their choice at Ruth's Chris Steak House if they could go there and find anything bigger than a pencil eraser size piece of camp lead. lol

TnSS: How can one miss what one can't measure?? Think.

Daniel,
I find your post very educational, very meaningful and well thought out. I enjoy reading them very much. I look forward to your reports and hunts on your what looks like a GPX purchase. I consider you like Keith Southern, a valued member of the metal detecting community. I see you have many other outdoor interest. It's amazing to me, but you seem to be on top of your game when it comes to all of your endeavors. I think it takes not only an intelligent person to do what you do, but also a dedicated person. My hat goes off to you!!!

Is this a proposal??

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this a proposal??


lol!

Whew...My eyes are tried!

doc holiday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this a proposal??

Hello Doc,
Wyatt Earp here.
While I was out walking on water today while detecting I got to thinking.
To begin with I feel if a person's work and their surrounding comments, if warranted, deserve congratulating I will do so. There are others here as well, when I feel the conditions have been met will also get my kudos. That's the way I do business. Its seems some here have automatic touch pads, mouse buttons, cursors etc, that automatically take them to threads/post they feel are either useless, unworthy, or promoting or a combination of. I don't have such equipment. You know human interaction can be a powerful thing, at the same time is can be just as destructive. Many here may find some of my threads/post indeed remedial to them. And this may in fact be true, but remember other folks who visit this forum may indeed learn something from these thread/post. I'm not one to make a thread/post in a slap happy fashion reflecting "my way or the highway" kind of thinking. I usually try to convey what I hear and see, and try to relate my thoughts to other trusted sources in constructing my responses. I try and ask folks questions to get information or shed light on equipment or metal detecting in general. And I also feel sometimes, if I can't understand or don't know something, someone else here may be in the same boat. So it then becomes an educational process for many besides myself. I like this forum and I love to metal detect. If I can help anyone using my knowledge or experience I try to do so. I don't expect all folks to agree with, nor do I agree with all folks here. But if I do disagree, I try and be respectful, and give reasons for my disagreeing. I don't mind jokes, if they are in good taste and used in the right setting.

Fifty years from now this forum may or may not exist. One thing I think we can all agree on. Fifty years from now, many of us will not be detecting or even be living souls. Sure there will be people still detecting I think and other detecting forums will be created and the folks with the different forums will be posting. Our time on this earth is far shorter than we actually think. Mr Keith Southern alluded to this just recently in saying spend all the time you can with your folks. We as people (humans) never know what the future holds. My wife is ailing with a dreaded disease, it will eventually take her life sooner rather than later. If not for her disease, I would travel longer distances to visit other detectorists. I feel I can learn from Daniel, Keith, Tom, Old California, just to name a few. I have a trip sorta planned to visit Tom 41, who post here if the weather would cooperate with his time off schedule. He only lives about 70 miles from me, and he has a Blisstool and some sites I would like to hunt. At the same time I want to share my equipment with him so he can get the bird's eye view of maybe of their performance and operation.

In closing I hope some folks learn something from my threads/posts. I hope I can ask questions in the future that will shed light also for other members.
Doc, you have a good evening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2015 01:03AM by tnsharpshooter.