New water machine in the works from Whites...

Whites does have some catching up to do.. At least from a customers eye... According to s howard whites is in the best shape ever. And whites is doing great.. Says all companies are losing people daily ,not just whites.. I say if whites is so successfull why dont we as customers know that??? Are customers supposed to sit back and wait for nothing?? While all these other companies are making better machines... I just dont get whites way of thinking... Keep putting new stickers on old machines... Keep saying they are fine...do they read forums?? Of course the whites forum appears all is fine because they dont allow anything bad said about them.. My thread was shut down quick.. Whites just dont want to hear it.. Oh well. They better hope they are just wonderful..

basstrackerman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whites does have some catching up to do.. At least
> from a customers eye... According to s howard
> whites is in the best shape ever. And whites is
> doing great.. Says all companies are losing people
> daily ,not just whites.. I say if whites is so
> successfull why dont we as customers know that???
> Are customers supposed to sit back and wait for
> nothing?? While all these other companies are
> making better machines... I just dont get whites
> way of thinking... Keep putting new stickers on
> old machines... Keep saying they are fine...do
> they read forums?? Of course the whites forum
> appears all is fine because they dont allow
> anything bad said about them.. My thread was shut
> down quick.. Whites just dont want to hear it.. Oh
> well. They better hope they are just wonderful..
It doesn't matter what Whites forum you're on - your post will be deleted within seconds of posting constructed criticism. By listening to us their best field testers they can grow.

Steve H., my apologies for losing track of this thread. Got married this week and been kind of busy. I had no idea you had fought so hard with Whites over trying to get them to make the exact improvements that we the customers have asked for so long only to have it fall on deaf ears. If they will not listen to people like you who have so much experience and have added so much really important testing of their products, then what chance do we the customer have of getting the product that we want from them? The management does make the final decisions as to what will be produced, good or bad. Their customer service and turn around time on repairs are still terrific, and maybe I am wrong about the talent that is in the Whites stable. Only time will tell. But one thing is for sure, there is no denying that they have fallen behind in the battle for a top of the line detector. Something new had better be coming out in the near future that really grabs the detectorists in big numbers or they may never catch up to the now smaller companies who are overtaking them, much less someone like Minelab. I like competition between companies. That competition is good for the quality of products produced ( and lower price in everything except the metal detector industry it seems ). If a company can not or will not produce what the customer can get from a competitor then they will fold. Time to see what Whites has up it's sleeve.

Its time for several manufacturers to think new and adapt to the dynamic market where new innovations come rapidly

Kodak was the leader in cameras and filmrolls.
They also had the first digital camera in their hands but neglected it maybe because they could not sell filmrolls for it.
Where is Kodak today ?

It is about understanding what the customers want in the nearest future and bring just what they want. And particularly what they dont even know they want. The X quality formula.


But remember, US manufacturers sell volumes of detectors to people who are satisfied and do not know what the 1% detectorist community do.

It will cost millions in investments to make detectors for the niche market that the volumes of users dont even care for. Therefore the X quality thinking is needed to surprice people.

10 years ago I didnt know i needed an iPhone.

search and recovery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve H., my apologies for losing track of this
> thread. Got married this week and been kind of
> busy. I had no idea you had fought so hard with
> Whites over trying to get them to make the exact
> improvements that we the customers have asked for
> so long only to have it fall on deaf ears. If they
> will not listen to people like you who have so
> much experience and have added so much really
> important testing of their products, then what
> chance do we the customer have of getting the
> product that we want from them? The management
> does make the final decisions as to what will be
> produced, good or bad. Their customer service and
> turn around time on repairs are still terrific,
> and maybe I am wrong about the talent that is in
> the Whites stable. Only time will tell. But one
> thing is for sure, there is no denying that they
> have fallen behind in the battle for a top of the
> line detector. Something new had better be coming
> out in the near future that really grabs the
> detectorists in big numbers or they may never
> catch up to the now smaller companies who are
> overtaking them, much less someone like Minelab. I
> like competition between companies. That
> competition is good for the quality of products
> produced ( and lower price in everything except
> the metal detector industry it seems ). If a
> company can not or will not produce what the
> customer can get from a competitor then they will
> fold. Time to see what Whites has up it's sleeve.


believe they got plenty! if anybody can "pull a rabbit out of a hat"
it's whitey in sweet home!.they got the history,money and know how
to make it happen! i wouldn't bet against 'em!

(h.h.!)
j.t.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 04:10AM by jmaryt.

I wish them all the luck. IMO they are going to need it and then some. Their market share has to be slipping no doubt; especially flagships sales. Minelab and XP are for real, Makro/Nokta as well. It's almost like White's only makes one flagship and quits. I mean I look at things differently maybe. A company like White's should always have for example 2 flagships on the drawing board. Sure one might get released, but you have to start another. The breech must always be loaded. The conveyor belt loaded, If not gaps will appear and the competitors will take advantage. For heavens sakes, drop the tin can look. Using a metal box on a metal detector is now getting close to the stone age. I'll bet the V3i could be reworked with better rolling/blendy tones, use plastic instead of tin can, scrub the battery hog color screen, use a small lipro battery, a lighter overall rod, and some good coils. I've really quite never figured out why/how aftermarket coils could be better overall for brand x model y detector??? I mean why can't the detector maker make these supposed better coils?????? And it seems Minelab for all practical purposes owns the PI detector market in the USA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 05:21AM by tnsharpshooter.

It's possible Whites tested and dissected the Atpro and decided they couldn't do better in that price range? As tnsharshooter mentioned - better audio. My etrac in 1,2 or4 tone mode sounds better than the V's. Minelab's audio just sounds pleasant. But ML could get some pointers from Whites on a better display.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

I know Whites has employees policing ebay and other sites to make sure no dealer is stepping on Kellyco's toes. How about letting all of us dealers sell to whoever we want? That would free up your police to read posts like this one!

This thread has been personally entertaining to me. Some of the opinions and comments are spot-on, others are not even close. Sorry, but ya'll don't get any more than that from me.

"It's my wild guess that White's have designed and built [ a few ] models but decided to not introduce them?
They [ might have ] gone further with multi-frequency i.e. more than 2 and might not have been happy with that either?
They are probably a bit [ gun-shy ] now after several re-hash jobs and a few 'over-engineered' ones e.g. V3, and know whatever they do next will have to FLY really well!"

Sounds like Paralysis by Analysis. Yes they need a home run but you can not get a home run unless you swing the bat.

A better MXT on all counts would be at least a solid base hit if not a home run - just has be better in all ways then current one. How about using what they learned from the V3 and what they know about the MXT and merge them into a multifrequency killer. Drop the color display - loose weight - keep the wireless headphones and for sure make it water resistant or even better at least 10 ft like Garretts. Also - Keep the price down. Volume can cure a lot of pricing issues. Or pull a rabbit out of your hat and bring us something new and inventive that will have us all talking.

Des D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It's my wild guess that White's have designed and
> built [ a few ] models but decided to not
> introduce them?
> They [ might have ] gone further with
> multi-frequency i.e. more than 2 and might not
> have been happy with that either?
> They are probably a bit [ gun-shy ] now after
> several re-hash jobs and a few 'over-engineered'
> ones e.g. V3, and know whatever they do next will
> have to FLY really well!"

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

Nothing beats a winner. If Whites comes through with a detector that has has some unique features and performs well the public will buy it. We don't need a thousand adjustments. Makro has shown everyone what a great feature simplicity is. We don't need the same old detector with a new face plate either. FT should be very aware of that. And it would sure help if Whites had a forum where the customer could criticize. Being the bullies of the detecting world by controlling negative feedback and negative reviews in magazines is over. We have the power of the forum and the truth will get out. So Whites needs to listen to their customers and produce what we want and need. Simple as that.

Goodmore,
You're right on the money as usual. Yes, this pinning the tail on the donkey with all these different settings is for the birds. I want to detect not play with knobs or buttons. And I definitely don't want to be second guessing myself with, "Did I have the right settings"? Of course there will be someone post here soon I'm sure saying it's really not that hard or complicated. You really don't have to change that many settings. My answer to that is,"Then why are the adjustments on the unit in the first place then"? Some folks it seems loves to play the "mad scientist" meaning they love to tinker around with knobs, switches, then when they eventually find something worthy, the detector is a hoot and so is the operator. I mean all White's has to do is hire a reasonably intelligent person to read this forum. There is enough info on this forum to get them pointed in the right direction.--NOT SO on the White's forum and a few others.


ps You want to find out how good a Ford auto is, where do you go??? Ford dealership right. Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2015 09:51PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
There is enough info on this forum to get
> them pointed in the right direction.--NOT SO on
> the White's forum and a few others.

I remember when Whites started their forum. I was happy there would be a place for some direct exchange of criticisms and ideas. But you are correct, even mildly gray areas critical to a product were deleted or that Fox moderator would just jump all over it and tell you how delusional you must be. I first lost motivation to post there and soon after gave up reading it. Just company line propaganda for all I could tell. I lost some trust in the company and their desire to serve their customers and felt the forum was mainly there for show.

Maybe Whites should had been recruiting Garrett and FirstTex engineers instead of running the ones they had off? Then the headline would have read "Garrett Atpro engineer is heading to Sweet Home to shake up the industry" Even though Whites has handcuffed me since the internet - Nothing would make me prouder if they came out with an Atpro killler and recovered the number one spot. Then maybe I could sell some! Lol.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

Great. Another single frequency waterproof detector. Let's compete in the market that is already saturated by the AT Pro.

What I wish Whites would do is revamp the beach hunter and give us a real dual/multi frequency beach detector that can compete with the Excalibur or the CZ21.

Put it in a smaller, lighter weight package and lose that ridiculous garbage can lid of a coil and they would sell Thousands of units.

This running around trying to copy each other's success stories is getting old.

Come on Whites, I have watched you put out revolutionary machines.

You can do this.

Miser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great. Another single frequency waterproof
> detector. Let's compete in the market that is
> already saturated by the AT Pro.
>
> What I wish Whites would do is revamp the beach
> hunter and give us a real dual/multi frequency
> beach detector that can compete with the Excalibur
> or the CZ21.
>
> Put it in a smaller, lighter weight package and
> lose that ridiculous garbage can lid of a coil and
> they would sell Thousands of units.
>
> This running around trying to copy each other's
> success stories is getting old.
>
> Come on Whites, I have watched you put out
> revolutionary machines.
>
> You can do this.
I think Whites has proved they can't even copy a success story. How will they come up with something fresh? For 25 years they have been in the label printing business.

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Whites should had been recruiting Garrett
> and FirstTex engineers instead of running the ones
> they had off? Then the headline would have read
> "Garrett Atpro engineer is heading to Sweet Home
> to shake up the industry" Even though Whites has
> handcuffed me since the internet - Nothing would
> make me prouder if they came out with an Atpro
> killler and recovered the number one spot. Then
> maybe I could sell some! Lol.


they already done this!.."mx-5" will find anything an "at-pro" will
except "under water" of course! i guess they figure no body hunts in the rain anyway,
unless they "stink" and need a bath anyway!..(lol) i'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Miser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great. Another single frequency waterproof
> detector. Let's compete in the market that is
> already saturated by the AT Pro.
>
> What I wish Whites would do is revamp the beach
> hunter and give us a real dual/multi frequency
> beach detector that can compete with the Excalibur
> or the CZ21.
>
> Put it in a smaller, lighter weight package and
> lose that ridiculous garbage can lid of a coil and
> they would sell Thousands of units.
>
> This running around trying to copy each other's
> success stories is getting old.
>
> Come on Whites, I have watched you put out
> revolutionary machines.
>
> You can do this.


yes they can!..have done so in the past,so don't count 'em out!
i'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.