New water machine in the works from Whites...

You make some good points JMaryt. Glad to hear I am not the only one to not bury Whites just yet. The pinpointer thing seems so silly to me. Guess that may upset some here but, although I traded a G-2 for a 1021 CZ-3d with a pinpointer I almost never use it. I still just turn the coil on end and X over the target like Tom D. in his videos. Works for me as well as ever. Pinpointer is nice and on an occasional very deep target useful, but really not needed in my opinion. Guess I never had one for so many years that I see it as a great marketing ploy more than a necessity. Rarely saves me any real time. Just my opinion.

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so it would appear! the pro-pointer was already in
> "play" for awhile before whitey tried to compete!
> to be truthful,i don't have much use for a pin
> pointer as for over 35 years have let the coil do
> it for me!
> guess i got good enough not to "need" one!..i said
> "need' one.i have a pro-pointer,keep it on my
> hip,
> but always seem to "forget" to use it in the
> field! it gets used,just NOT all the time!..i look
> for whitey to
> ''snap out of it" and get back in the game,and
> smart money says they have something ready for the
> xmas market!
> i'm just sayin'
>
> (h.h.!)
The MX5 is no MXTpro no matter what Whites tells me. I've always loved notch discrimination and this is what the 5 has going for it. Other than that it sounds like a Prizm or Coinmaster. Kind of like hearing a beep in a cardboard box. They need to upgrade the speaker and audio driver. Also it keeps being said the 5 beats the Atpro or is at least equal to it in performance other than it's not waterproof. That is the total point - it's not waterproof........ You don't have to use a waterproof machine under the water to reap the benefits. Being waterproof makes them dust, moisture and rain proof as well. The Atpro has a lot of room for improvement. If Whites made their own version it would sell like hot cakes. But this is not going to happen. Garrett since the Ace 250 has been several steps ahead. They started looking forward not getting fat on the couch. I really believe that if you lined up 100 detectorists and they had to choose between 2 exact machines. One had a Garrett sticker the other Whites. 70 of them would grab the Whites. ( This is just me thinking. ) I for one would grab the Whites for sure. But we ain't got no Whites to grab!
> j.t.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

I posted this on another site, but thought those looking to increase the waterproof depth of their CTX might find this info helpful. Below are possible O-ring replacements for the battery port (remove the ML red ring). Listed is the O-ring to be added to the USB port. The Acetoxy silicone sealant is applied to the threads of the USB port after adding the new O-ring. You can still break the seal and open the port when needed (just reapply afterward when done). Keep all the nitrile rubber O-rings lightly coated in silicone grease so they don't dry out. The whole setup is less than $10 and should allow the CTX-3030 to be submerged to 40+ feet without issues.

I haven't added an O-ring to the USB port but have upgraded the battery compartment O-ring to N2.00x080 (2mmx80mm Buna-N 70 O-ring). For snorkel work it is more than enough. I've sprayed the battery/USB ports with jets of water and no leaks - it'll do for my surf work. I use silicone grease on the O-ring and threads of the USB port too.

USB PORT REPLACEMENT O-RINGS
ID = Inside Diameter CS = Cross section (thickness)

20.0mm (ID) x 2.65mm (CS) N70 Price: $1.18 - MEDIUM
[www.theoringstore.com]


BATTERY CASE REPLACEMENT O-RINGS
ID = Inside Diameter CS = Cross section (thickness)

79mm (ID) x 3.00mm (CS) N70 Price: $1.82 - THICKEST FOR SCUBA (will have larger gap)
[www.theoringstore.com]

80.6mm (ID) x 2.62mm (CS) N70 Price: $2.95 - THICKER FOR SCUBA/STRONG WAVES (will have gap)
[www.theoringstore.com]

79mm (ID) x 2.50mm (CS) N70 Price: $1.50 - MEDIUM FOR SNORKEL/WAVES (will have gap)
[www.theoringstore.com]

80mm (ID) x 2.00mm (CS) N70 Price: $1.43 - NORMAL FOR WADING (case closes w/o gaps)
[www.theoringstore.com]


SILICONE GREASE
Akfix 100E Clear 10.5 oz. Universal Silicone Sealant
[www.amazon.com]

Johnnyanglo

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so it would appear! the pro-pointer was already
> in
> > "play" for awhile before whitey tried to
> compete!
> > to be truthful,i don't have much use for a pin
> > pointer as for over 35 years have let the coil
> do
> > it for me!
> > guess i got good enough not to "need" one!..i
> said
> > "need' one.i have a pro-pointer,keep it on my
> > hip,
> > but always seem to "forget" to use it in the
> > field! it gets used,just NOT all the time!..i
> look
> > for whitey to
> > ''snap out of it" and get back in the game,and
> > smart money says they have something ready for
> the
> > xmas market!
> > i'm just sayin'
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> The MX5 is no MXTpro no matter what Whites tells
> me. I've always loved notch discrimination and
> this is what the 5 has going for it. Other than
> that it sounds like a Prizm or Coinmaster. Kind
> of like hearing a beep in a cardboard box. They
> need to upgrade the speaker and audio driver.
> Also it keeps being said the 5 beats the Atpro or
> is at least equal to it in performance other than
> it's not waterproof. That is the total point -
> it's not waterproof........ You don't have to use
> a waterproof machine under the water to reap the
> benefits. Being waterproof makes them dust,
> moisture and rain proof as well. The Atpro has a
> lot of room for improvement. If Whites made their
> own version it would sell like hot cakes. But
> this is not going to happen. Garrett since the
> Ace 250 has been several steps ahead. They
> started looking forward not getting fat on the
> couch. I really believe that if you lined up 100
> detectorists and they had to choose between 2
> exact machines. One had a Garrett sticker the
> other Whites. 70 of them would grab the Whites. (
> This is just me thinking. ) I for one would grab
> the Whites for sure. But we ain't got no Whites
> to grab!
> > j.t.


your point on the "waterproof" aspect of the at-pro
is well taken,however,can only speak for myself,and i really
don't care 2 sh*ts about that because i am not a water hunter,and
i don't hunt in the rain!,so with that said,waterproofing means nothing to me!
i'm just sayin'..the mx-5 is to me, a "crackerjack" coin sniper in the trash with the small coil on board!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Thanks JohnnyA for the CTX information. Much appreciated! Maybe I will buy one yet...Stuart

Jmaryt..... but thats what this thread is about NEW WATER MACHINE. Sorry, but if you lined up water machines...... im afraid, most would still grab a ML. Not because we like the company per sa, but because right now id say the majority use a disc machine for beach hunting and ML does it best. I think the forum finds support this. Thats a LOT .... i mean a LOT of beach and water to cover during recent drop time especially here in FL. I believe another problem with water machines is tuning. How does one know they are tuned properly. Most using new machines use them for years without knowing if they are working right or not. I know a guy that helped produce several machines and he will be the first to say...... send it to me so i can tune it. Other wise they may say its a 15 or what uS, but odds are its not. Most of the people on here arent water hunters so they dont how much we'd love to see some improvement in these machines. Id like to see some of the companies now producing some of the newest and best relic detectors help us out. Salt water hunting isnt like dirt hunting ...... when that machine hits the water it dont take long to tell if its going to work or last.

Dew

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jmaryt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > so it would appear! the pro-pointer was
> already
> > in
> > > "play" for awhile before whitey tried to
> > compete!
> > > to be truthful,i don't have much use for a
> pin
> > > pointer as for over 35 years have let the
> coil
> > do
> > > it for me!
> > > guess i got good enough not to "need" one!..i
> > said
> > > "need' one.i have a pro-pointer,keep it on my
> > > hip,
> > > but always seem to "forget" to use it in the
> > > field! it gets used,just NOT all the time!..i
> > look
> > > for whitey to
> > > ''snap out of it" and get back in the game,and
>
> > > smart money says they have something ready
> for
> > the
> > > xmas market!
> > > i'm just sayin'
> > >
> > > (h.h.!)
> > The MX5 is no MXTpro no matter what Whites
> tells
> > me. I've always loved notch discrimination and
> > this is what the 5 has going for it. Other
> than
> > that it sounds like a Prizm or Coinmaster.
> Kind
> > of like hearing a beep in a cardboard box.
> They
> > need to upgrade the speaker and audio driver.
> > Also it keeps being said the 5 beats the Atpro
> or
> > is at least equal to it in performance other
> than
> > it's not waterproof. That is the total point -
> > it's not waterproof........ You don't have to
> use
> > a waterproof machine under the water to reap
> the
> > benefits. Being waterproof makes them dust,
> > moisture and rain proof as well. The Atpro has
> a
> > lot of room for improvement. If Whites made
> their
> > own version it would sell like hot cakes. But
> > this is not going to happen. Garrett since the
> > Ace 250 has been several steps ahead. They
> > started looking forward not getting fat on the
> > couch. I really believe that if you lined up
> 100
> > detectorists and they had to choose between 2
> > exact machines. One had a Garrett sticker the
> > other Whites. 70 of them would grab the Whites.
> (
> > This is just me thinking. ) I for one would
> grab
> > the Whites for sure. But we ain't got no
> Whites
> > to grab!
> > > j.t.
>
>
> your point on the "waterproof" aspect of the
> at-pro
> is well taken,however,can only speak for
> myself,and i really
> don't care 2 sh*ts about that because i am not a
> water hunter,and
> i don't hunt in the rain!,so with that
> said,waterproofing means nothing to me!
> i'm just sayin'..the mx-5 is to me, a
> "crackerjack" coin sniper in the trash with the
> small coil on board!
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.
I believe the term "waterproof metal detector" implies the only advantage of said machine is it's use in and under the water. What if any machine was said to be "environmentally sealed"? Who wouldn't want a dust, rain and water proof machine if it was the same cost as others? I've had at least 5 Atpro's and rarely get a chance to water hunt. Last year Zero times. But it's nice to have a machine that can do the job if need be. Plus all the other advantages that come with an environmentally sealed machine. I'm glad the MX5 is working great for you and your style of hunting. I can see your comfortable and know your machine well. I'm happy we all have a ton of choices out there in the detector world.
On a side note -- This is what I think happened when the manufacturers were caught sleeping when the ATpro hit the market. Other manufacturers purchased ATpros to be dissected in the laboratories hidden deep under their manufacturing plants. They were tested, ripped apart and studied. I think then what was said is "we can't do better in this price range" Manufacturers take a huge warranty risk as well. Garrett took on that risk and succeeded. I'm sure they are not done. They may already be sitting on the ATpro+ machine as we speak. Just waiting for another manufacturer to spend all their money on R&D. Only to beat then to the punch again just like the PropointerAT. This is just me thinking out loud here......

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jmaryt..... but thats what this thread is about
> NEW WATER MACHINE. Sorry, but if you lined up
> water machines...... im afraid, most would still
> grab a ML. Not because we like the company per
> sa, but because right now id say the majority use
> a disc machine for beach hunting and ML does it
> best. I think the forum finds support this.
> Thats a LOT .... i mean a LOT of beach and water
> to cover during recent drop time especially here
> in FL. I believe another problem with water
> machines is tuning. How does one know they are
> tuned properly. Most using new machines use them
> for years without knowing if they are working
> right or not. I know a guy that helped produce
> several machines and he will be the first to
> say...... send it to me so i can tune it. Other
> wise they may say its a 15 or what uS, but odds
> are its not. Most of the people on here arent
> water hunters so they dont how much we'd love to
> see some improvement in these machines. Id like
> to see some of the companies now producing some of
> the newest and best relic detectors help us out.
> Salt water hunting isnt like dirt hunting ......
> when that machine hits the water it dont take long
> to tell if its going to work or last.
>
> Dew


i just wish i could get past how i feel about hunting the water,because a lot of
great stuff is found at beaches and such!..been after silver on land for so long
i am stuck kinda in a one dimensional world,and maybe need to bust out of my comfort zone and give water hunting a try!
i may move to southeast asia in a year or two,and the ONLY way to stay in the detecting game for me WILL be to hunt the water
because all that will be left to hunt is jewelry,as the coins over there are crap compared to u.s. stuff!..i am just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > khouse Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > jmaryt Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > so it would appear! the pro-pointer was
> > already
> > > in
> > > > "play" for awhile before whitey tried to
> > > compete!
> > > > to be truthful,i don't have much use for a
> > pin
> > > > pointer as for over 35 years have let the
> > coil
> > > do
> > > > it for me!
> > > > guess i got good enough not to "need"
> one!..i
> > > said
> > > > "need' one.i have a pro-pointer,keep it on
> my
> > > > hip,
> > > > but always seem to "forget" to use it in
> the
> > > > field! it gets used,just NOT all the
> time!..i
> > > look
> > > > for whitey to
> > > > ''snap out of it" and get back in the
> game,and
> >
> > > > smart money says they have something ready
> > for
> > > the
> > > > xmas market!
> > > > i'm just sayin'
> > > >
> > > > (h.h.!)
> > > The MX5 is no MXTpro no matter what Whites
> > tells
> > > me. I've always loved notch discrimination
> and
> > > this is what the 5 has going for it. Other
> > than
> > > that it sounds like a Prizm or Coinmaster.
> > Kind
> > > of like hearing a beep in a cardboard box.
> > They
> > > need to upgrade the speaker and audio driver.
>
> > > Also it keeps being said the 5 beats the
> Atpro
> > or
> > > is at least equal to it in performance other
> > than
> > > it's not waterproof. That is the total point
> -
> > > it's not waterproof........ You don't have to
> > use
> > > a waterproof machine under the water to reap
> > the
> > > benefits. Being waterproof makes them dust,
> > > moisture and rain proof as well. The Atpro
> has
> > a
> > > lot of room for improvement. If Whites made
> > their
> > > own version it would sell like hot cakes.
> But
> > > this is not going to happen. Garrett since
> the
> > > Ace 250 has been several steps ahead. They
> > > started looking forward not getting fat on
> the
> > > couch. I really believe that if you lined up
> > 100
> > > detectorists and they had to choose between 2
> > > exact machines. One had a Garrett sticker the
> > > other Whites. 70 of them would grab the
> Whites.
> > (
> > > This is just me thinking. ) I for one would
> > grab
> > > the Whites for sure. But we ain't got no
> > Whites
> > > to grab!
> > > > j.t.
> >
> >
> > your point on the "waterproof" aspect of the
> > at-pro
> > is well taken,however,can only speak for
> > myself,and i really
> > don't care 2 sh*ts about that because i am not
> a
> > water hunter,and
> > i don't hunt in the rain!,so with that
> > said,waterproofing means nothing to me!
> > i'm just sayin'..the mx-5 is to me, a
> > "crackerjack" coin sniper in the trash with the
> > small coil on board!
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
> I believe the term "waterproof metal detector"
> implies the only advantage of said machine is it's
> use in and under the water. What if any machine
> was said to be "environmentally sealed"? Who
> wouldn't want a dust, rain and water proof machine
> if it was the same cost as others? I've had at
> least 5 Atpro's and rarely get a chance to water
> hunt. Last year Zero times. But it's nice to
> have a machine that can do the job if need be.
> Plus all the other advantages that come with an
> environmentally sealed machine. I'm glad the MX5
> is working great for you and your style of
> hunting. I can see your comfortable and know your
> machine well. I'm happy we all have a ton of
> choices out there in the detector world.
> On a side note -- This is what I think happened
> when the manufacturers were caught sleeping when
> the ATpro hit the market. Other manufacturers
> purchased ATpros to be dissected in the
> laboratories hidden deep under their manufacturing
> plants. They were tested, ripped apart and
> studied. I think then what was said is "we can't
> do better in this price range" Manufacturers take
> a huge warranty risk as well. Garrett took on
> that risk and succeeded. I'm sure they are not
> done. They may already be sitting on the ATpro+
> machine as we speak. Just waiting for another
> manufacturer to spend all their money on R&D.
> Only to beat then to the punch again just like the
> PropointerAT. This is just me thinking out loud
> here......


yes this has been going on since detectors started getting built! manufacturers routinely
tear each other's equipment a part on test benches to ascertain if patents can be circumvented
to compete...nothin' new there!..i believe whites COULD have made the mx-5 waterproof,however,i believe
they chose NOT to because of cost factors,as you stated!.if you notice,the mx-5 has a dedicated "beach " mode
which when used in water runs the risk of getting the control box wet!.with that said,one can easily determine that it SHOULD
have been made waterproof.it is only an opinion,but is in line with what you say,in that probably whites would be "outside" the at-pro's
price point IF the 5 was made to be waterproof!.in any event,as previously stated,i just use it in dry conditions anyway so it it rendered
academic for me!.i'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dewcon4414 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jmaryt..... but thats what this thread is about
> > NEW WATER MACHINE. Sorry, but if you lined up
> > water machines...... im afraid, most would
> still
> > grab a ML. Not because we like the company
> per
> > sa, but because right now id say the majority
> use
> > a disc machine for beach hunting and ML does it
> > best. I think the forum finds support this.
> > Thats a LOT .... i mean a LOT of beach and
> water
> > to cover during recent drop time especially
> here
> > in FL. I believe another problem with water
> > machines is tuning. How does one know they
> are
> > tuned properly. Most using new machines use
> them
> > for years without knowing if they are working
> > right or not. I know a guy that helped
> produce
> > several machines and he will be the first to
> > say...... send it to me so i can tune it.
> Other
> > wise they may say its a 15 or what uS, but odds
> > are its not. Most of the people on here arent
> > water hunters so they dont how much we'd love
> to
> > see some improvement in these machines. Id
> like
> > to see some of the companies now producing some
> of
> > the newest and best relic detectors help us out.
>
> > Salt water hunting isnt like dirt hunting
> ......
> > when that machine hits the water it dont take
> long
> > to tell if its going to work or last.
> >
> > Dew
>
>
> i just wish i could get past how i feel about
> hunting the water,because a lot of
> great stuff is found at beaches and such!..been
> after silver on land for so long
> i am stuck kinda in a one dimensional world,and
> maybe need to bust out of my comfort zone and give
> water hunting a try!
> i may move to southeast asia in a year or two,and
> the ONLY way to stay in the detecting game for me
> WILL be to hunt the water
> because all that will be left to hunt is
> jewelry,as the coins over there are crap compared
> to u.s. stuff!..i am just sayin'
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.
You can water hunt without a waterproof machine. It just takes a little more care. Last year we went to Panama City Beach. I usually buy a new "salt water" machine and sell it when I get back. This time I took my etrac. I did a lot of wet sand hunting and in a few cases ventured out is some calm waters I found. I tied the etrac pretty tight to my belt with a cord in case I dropped it. Plus I was always looking for wakes coming in. I actually got deeper than I should but did just fine. Along the way home to Missouri we would stop about every 3 hours at any park and I would hunt for 30 minutes and the wife would read a book. It made the whole trip more enjoyable. By using the GPS and setting it to "Parks" on the way home we found some really cool old parks.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dewcon4414 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jmaryt..... but thats what this thread is
> about
> > > NEW WATER MACHINE. Sorry, but if you lined
> up
> > > water machines...... im afraid, most would
> > still
> > > grab a ML. Not because we like the company
> > per
> > > sa, but because right now id say the majority
> > use
> > > a disc machine for beach hunting and ML does
> it
> > > best. I think the forum finds support this.
> > > Thats a LOT .... i mean a LOT of beach and
> > water
> > > to cover during recent drop time especially
> > here
> > > in FL. I believe another problem with water
> > > machines is tuning. How does one know they
> > are
> > > tuned properly. Most using new machines use
> > them
> > > for years without knowing if they are working
> > > right or not. I know a guy that helped
> > produce
> > > several machines and he will be the first to
> > > say...... send it to me so i can tune it.
> > Other
> > > wise they may say its a 15 or what uS, but
> odds
> > > are its not. Most of the people on here
> arent
> > > water hunters so they dont how much we'd love
> > to
> > > see some improvement in these machines. Id
> > like
> > > to see some of the companies now producing
> some
> > of
> > > the newest and best relic detectors help us
> out.
> >
> > > Salt water hunting isnt like dirt hunting
> > ......
> > > when that machine hits the water it dont take
> > long
> > > to tell if its going to work or last.
> > >
> > > Dew
> >
> >
> > i just wish i could get past how i feel about
> > hunting the water,because a lot of
> > great stuff is found at beaches and such!..been
> > after silver on land for so long
> > i am stuck kinda in a one dimensional
> world,and
> > maybe need to bust out of my comfort zone and
> give
> > water hunting a try!
> > i may move to southeast asia in a year or
> two,and
> > the ONLY way to stay in the detecting game for
> me
> > WILL be to hunt the water
> > because all that will be left to hunt is
> > jewelry,as the coins over there are crap
> compared
> > to u.s. stuff!..i am just sayin'
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
> You can water hunt without a waterproof machine.
> It just takes a little more care. Last year we
> went to Panama City Beach. I usually buy a new
> "salt water" machine and sell it when I get back.
> This time I took my etrac. I did a lot of wet
> sand hunting and in a few cases ventured out is
> some calm waters I found. I tied the etrac pretty
> tight to my belt with a cord in case I dropped it.
> Plus I was always looking for wakes coming in. I
> actually got deeper than I should but did just
> fine. Along the way home to Missouri we would
> stop about every 3 hours at any park and I would
> hunt for 30 minutes and the wife would read a
> book. It made the whole trip more enjoyable. By
> using the GPS and setting it to "Parks" on the way
> home we found some really cool old parks.


Kenny, you're braver than I am! Not on the Etrac hunting at beach but stopping on the way home every once in a while. I saw a sidewalk tearout in an old town on my way home yesterday from a 4 hour trip. My wife said "don't even think about it, get me home first and you can go hunt anywhere you like!" Lol

Fletch88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jmaryt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > dewcon4414 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Jmaryt..... but thats what this thread is
> > about
> > > > NEW WATER MACHINE. Sorry, but if you
> lined
> > up
> > > > water machines...... im afraid, most would
> > > still
> > > > grab a ML. Not because we like the
> company
> > > per
> > > > sa, but because right now id say the
> majority
> > > use
> > > > a disc machine for beach hunting and ML
> does
> > it
> > > > best. I think the forum finds support this.
>
> > > > Thats a LOT .... i mean a LOT of beach and
> > > water
> > > > to cover during recent drop time especially
> > > here
> > > > in FL. I believe another problem with
> water
> > > > machines is tuning. How does one know
> they
> > > are
> > > > tuned properly. Most using new machines
> use
> > > them
> > > > for years without knowing if they are
> working
> > > > right or not. I know a guy that helped
> > > produce
> > > > several machines and he will be the first
> to
> > > > say...... send it to me so i can tune it.
> > > Other
> > > > wise they may say its a 15 or what uS, but
> > odds
> > > > are its not. Most of the people on here
> > arent
> > > > water hunters so they dont how much we'd
> love
> > > to
> > > > see some improvement in these machines.
> Id
> > > like
> > > > to see some of the companies now producing
> > some
> > > of
> > > > the newest and best relic detectors help us
> > out.
> > >
> > > > Salt water hunting isnt like dirt hunting
> > > ......
> > > > when that machine hits the water it dont
> take
> > > long
> > > > to tell if its going to work or last.
> > > >
> > > > Dew
> > >
> > >
> > > i just wish i could get past how i feel about
> > > hunting the water,because a lot of
> > > great stuff is found at beaches and
> such!..been
> > > after silver on land for so long
> > > i am stuck kinda in a one dimensional
> > world,and
> > > maybe need to bust out of my comfort zone and
> > give
> > > water hunting a try!
> > > i may move to southeast asia in a year or
> > two,and
> > > the ONLY way to stay in the detecting game
> for
> > me
> > > WILL be to hunt the water
> > > because all that will be left to hunt is
> > > jewelry,as the coins over there are crap
> > compared
> > > to u.s. stuff!..i am just sayin'
> > >
> > > (h.h.!)
> > > j.t.
> > You can water hunt without a waterproof machine.
>
> > It just takes a little more care. Last year we
> > went to Panama City Beach. I usually buy a new
> > "salt water" machine and sell it when I get
> back.
> > This time I took my etrac. I did a lot of wet
> > sand hunting and in a few cases ventured out is
> > some calm waters I found. I tied the etrac
> pretty
> > tight to my belt with a cord in case I dropped
> it.
> > Plus I was always looking for wakes coming in.
> I
> > actually got deeper than I should but did just
> > fine. Along the way home to Missouri we would
> > stop about every 3 hours at any park and I
> would
> > hunt for 30 minutes and the wife would read a
> > book. It made the whole trip more enjoyable.
> By
> > using the GPS and setting it to "Parks" on the
> way
> > home we found some really cool old parks.
>
>
> Kenny, you're braver than I am! Not on the Etrac
> hunting at beach but stopping on the way home
> every once in a while. I saw a sidewalk tearout in
> an old town on my way home yesterday from a 4 hour
> trip. My wife said "don't even think about it, get
> me home first and you can go hunt anywhere you
> like!" Lol
LOL! Besides the fact that my wife likes to stop as well. She's wearing two rings that I found and is always excited to possibly upgrade on every dig! Also if I drive more than 3 hours I have to sleep 8! So I have to stop.......

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

search and recovery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sven, I agree with you and said that it was only a
> rumor started by Whites to me. But I am hoping
> that with all the talent recruited by Whites in
> the past year that they realize their past
> mistakes in ignoring the "nitch market" of water
> hunting. The TDI has great potential for
> improvement as a water machine in my opinion, and
> the AT Pro and ATX have been very successful for
> their company. It would be hard to imagine that
> Whites has hired so much talent only to ignore the
> growing markets and the growing costs of those
> detectors and not use the talents at hand and not
> try to capitalize on it. They have to understand
> by now that they are way behind in that area and
> have to come out with their own game changer and
> that people will pay for a machine that delivers.
> Mid price or upper price really, both can do very
> well. I know Minelab has the seemingly unlimited
> budget but as other foreign companies are showing,
> it does not take an unlimited budget to make a
> great detector, just a different angle on an old
> idea. Finding good targets and eliminating the bad
> as much as possible with a machine that the
> majority of the users can comprehend how to use
> easily and efficiently. So not out of the realm of
> possibility at all. I am not in any way a
> dedicated Whites user although I started with a
> Spectrum and now own and use a TDI and a Dual
> Field, but have several detectors from other
> companies that I use as well, so just my opinion
> on their statements. I hope they come out with the
> next detector that will knock my socks off for
> water hunting. I feel they have the talent to do
> it if their management does not suppress them too
> much. I know one thing for sure, I will keep a
> little money earmarked for any detector that can
> improve my finds no matter what company or country
> it comes from. Always hope it is an America
> company though...Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Just curious about this "talent" White's has recruited. They obviously had to do some hiring to replace people that left. But there is a difference between a new hire and talent. Carl Moreland I would qualify as talent, and he left to go to First Texas. What is there about these new people that makes them special? Not saying they are not, but as I say you piqued my curiosity.

I do think White's backed themselves into a corner. They tried to suppress the Internet for way too long and in effect made themselves invisible to many new people. I really like the old metal boxes myself but at the same time regard them as a relic of the past, as is the eight AA battery scheme. As a previous poster notes going to more modern designs risks alienating the existing customer base while it moving forward with newer sleeker designs loses people like me. Whites lost me to Fisher specifically over the MXT vs F75 as I had both and went with the lighter weight newer Dave Johnson detector versus the older heavier Dave Johnson detector.

I sure tried hard with them though. I lobbied as loud and hard as I could since day one trying to get a waterproof TDI out the door. And it came so very close. I basically was promised a Big Foot coil would see production again, but finally could not convince White's how important certain niche items like that are. The next company that makes a Big Foot type coil for their detector I will buy the detector just to have the coil. All they could focus on was it was not an item suitable for mass market production and it never happened.

We even had the discussion how a TDI and MXT circuit board could be crammed in a box and with the right coil flipped from TDI mode to MXT mode. All the parts right now to do it just sitting on the shelf, no real innovation required but just a desire to do something different. The powers that be at White's seem to have got lost playing company politics games with dealers, distributors, and Kellyco and forgot they were in the business of making metal detectors.

I really, really wish the best for White's and hope they do something soon that really surprises me. Honestly, at this point just another MXT variant, even if it is waterproof, is not going to do it. They need to compete in the technology end and use those new patents. I need innovation, not White's version of the AT Pro.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2015 04:11PM by Steve Herschbach.

Just because a machine has a beach setting i wouldnt nesisarily call it that. On a salt beach getting your coil wet with a non waterproof machine will take it tole....that salt mist id hard on any metal and electonics even the phones. But... I want a WATER PROOF machine salt water capible...sorry but a single freq wont do that.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know this White's pin pointer thingy needs to
> be talked about just a bit. The first useable
> pinpointer they produce the TRX. I have one, they
> blew it. Got everything right but the tone
> volume. I mean when wearing headsets, sorta hard
> to hear. Why did it take them so long to produce
> even a usable pinpointer??? The bullseye ones
> were crap. And how much $$$$ has Garrett made on
> pinpointers??? Plenty. I don't understand the
> company at all. Maybe it aint fair to Monday
> morning quarterback them, but it's not just one
> issue. Seems to be many. The way I see it
> White's is Garrett's best friend!!!!
Here's Whites problem. They use their own company men to test their products. All they say is "yes sir, it's fantastic". Send me your products and I'll tell you if they are junk!!!! Now they are building a team of Whites users that worship Whites! Whites if you want to impress me and move your company forward you should have flown a bunch of ATpro users to Sweet Home to build an ATpro killer. Not die hard Whites users.

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> search and recovery Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sven, I agree with you and said that it was only
> a
> > rumor started by Whites to me. But I am hoping
> > that with all the talent recruited by Whites in
> > the past year that they realize their past
> > mistakes in ignoring the "nitch market" of
> water
> > hunting. The TDI has great potential for
> > improvement as a water machine in my opinion,
> and
> > the AT Pro and ATX have been very successful
> for
> > their company. It would be hard to imagine that
> > Whites has hired so much talent only to ignore
> the
> > growing markets and the growing costs of those
> > detectors and not use the talents at hand and
> not
> > try to capitalize on it. They have to
> understand
> > by now that they are way behind in that area
> and
> > have to come out with their own game changer
> and
> > that people will pay for a machine that
> delivers.
> > Mid price or upper price really, both can do
> very
> > well. I know Minelab has the seemingly
> unlimited
> > budget but as other foreign companies are
> showing,
> > it does not take an unlimited budget to make a
> > great detector, just a different angle on an
> old
> > idea. Finding good targets and eliminating the
> bad
> > as much as possible with a machine that the
> > majority of the users can comprehend how to use
> > easily and efficiently. So not out of the realm
> of
> > possibility at all. I am not in any way a
> > dedicated Whites user although I started with a
> > Spectrum and now own and use a TDI and a Dual
> > Field, but have several detectors from other
> > companies that I use as well, so just my
> opinion
> > on their statements. I hope they come out with
> the
> > next detector that will knock my socks off for
> > water hunting. I feel they have the talent to
> do
> > it if their management does not suppress them
> too
> > much. I know one thing for sure, I will keep a
> > little money earmarked for any detector that
> can
> > improve my finds no matter what company or
> country
> > it comes from. Always hope it is an America
> > company though...Stuart
>
> Hi Stuart,
>
> Just curious about this "talent" White's has
> recruited. They obviously had to do some hiring to
> replace people that left. But there is a
> difference between a new hire and talent. Carl
> Moreland I would qualify as talent, and he left to
> go to First Texas. What is there about these new
> people that makes them special? Not saying they
> are not, but as I say you piqued my curiosity.
>
> I do think White's backed themselves into a
> corner. They tried to suppress the Internet for
> way too long and in effect made themselves
> invisible to many new people. I really like the
> old metal boxes myself but at the same time regard
> them as a relic of the past, as is the eight AA
> battery scheme. As a previous poster notes going
> to more modern designs risks alienating the
> existing customer base while it moving forward
> with newer sleeker designs loses people like me.
> Whites lost me to Fisher specifically over the MXT
> vs F75 as I had both and went with the lighter
> weight newer Dave Johnson detector versus the
> older heavier Dave Johnson detector.
>
> I sure tried hard with them though. I lobbied as
> loud and hard as I could since day one trying to
> get a waterproof TDI out the door. And it came so
> very close. I basically was promised a Big Foot
> coil would see production again, but finally could
> not convince White's how important certain niche
> items like that are. The next company that makes a
> Big Foot type coil for their detector I will buy
> the detector just to have the coil. All they could
> focus on was it was not an item suitable for mass
> market production and it never happened.
>
> We even had the discussion how a TDI and MXT
> circuit board could be crammed in a box and with
> the right coil flipped from TDI mode to MXT mode.
> All the parts right now to do it just sitting on
> the shelf, no real innovation required but just a
> desire to do something different. The powers that
> be at White's seem to have got lost playing
> company politics games with dealers, distributors,
> and Kellyco and forgot they were in the business
> of making metal detectors.
>
> I really, really wish the best for White's and
> hope they do something soon that really surprises
> me. Honestly, at this point just another MXT
> variant, even if it is waterproof, is not going to
> do it. They need to compete in the technology end
> and use those new patents. I need innovation, not
> White's version of the AT Pro.


i feel strongly they got "somethin'" in "skunk" works right now!
not sure why i feel this way,but i do!..a very well established
company with the "scratch" to get it done!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I agree, id liked to have seen the waterproof TDI. Apparently Whites didnt agree with Carl that the machine would sell.... even thou he said it was fairly simple to make it with disc. THAT my friends is what im waiting on..... a PI with a switch to PP with disc tones. Thats depth and time saving not digging iron. The TDI puts a lot of power to the coil. Inf comes close with a HI/low or Low/hi.... but the TIDs not that good even after a scoop is removed. We need 3 tones. I guess they figured they have it locked up with the DF. More and more hunters would like the option of being water proof. I mean look at the AT pro and the CTX..... people want it to be an all around machine now days. Good or bad thats seems to be the direction...... so id say water proof goes along with that. WE....as hunters expect with something for our money too...... quality. I HATE having to send a detector i just paid a ment for back for repair just when hunting is good. I know Carl said the water proof PI was his pet project now........ hopefully he can pitch it to TI.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2015 10:55AM by dewcon4414.

As said above. Whites forgot that they make money selling machines! My hands have been tied for years being a Whites dealer since 1985. I even put a 1.5 year old used M6 on ebay a few years back. Guess what? I got a call from Sweet Home to remove it be cause it still had some warranty left. All the while letting Kellyco sell to my next door neighbors . Now Whites tells me I can have a web site but can ONLY market and sell locally! I Also ask them why there are other companies selling on ebay? They told me that they are aware of this activity but are having a hard time stopping it. I really believe Whites has done whatever Kellyco has told them. Now look where it's got them....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2015 05:26PM by khouse.

Yes Whites needs to stop with the kellyco only thing...

I dont know how a man makes money selling machines in the digital age...

Brick and mortar is about over...

the ebay stores are the worse.. they dont even have a website...just sell detectors ..seems to be alot coming out of Califfornia doing this and they seem to be Foreign .

Guy in Malaysia sets up an account it shows up in California on the ebay site and he sells you a detector hes never had his hands on....he's aslo got another store selling scarves and another store selling coffee cups..WEIRD..

Type in metal detector on ebay click on consumer electronics and watch how many Garretts load on to the screen ..

some have sold over 1000 ace 250's???

I hate to say it...I love the local man for buying detectors...but eventually I'll bet there will be just direct to buyer from factory...no middle men.. no distributor no dealer..

how do you know its not already happeing...a manufacturer can set up bogus ebay accounts and sell them all day ..heck they can set up bogus websites or even sell on amazon...

things are changing...dealers and consumers will loose in the end.. the manufacturers will turn record profits..



Keith


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

For all it's great history it sure does look like a ship without a captain. I have always had super service from Whites. As a consumer I have found their business model of brick and mortar stores shackled in how they sell the products frustrating. I am not crazy about my local Whites dealer. Then I have found out by word of mouth about some other dealers that aren't listed on the main web site. Then there are others that are listed but no longer in business or at least never answer any email. That was a couple of years ago. I gave up and found a dealer in another state. If you want to sell something why make it hard for your potential customers? it probably worked well pre-internet, but now I can get more help on forums and faster than driving 10 miles to a local store hoping the right guy might be there when I walk in the door.

I started a thread on the whites forum.. Same as whats being said hers and findmall.. The thread was closed fast! I dont like fox and his ways but maybe i should have kept my mouth shut.. Idk i brought up that whites will be offering a 13" ultimate coil with new detectors .. I asked why and s howard says its what customers want.. And he said whites is in great shape and maybe best shave ever.. I call bs.. I always used whites.. I dont own any now... I even sold the crappy trx i had. Whites dont even have faith in their own coils if giving aftermarket coils away with detectors. Wow

HMMMM who imports ultimate coils into the States??

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2015 09:00PM by Keith Southern.

Exactly. Big K

I don't want to pile on, BUT. When I was getting back into detecting, not knowing how the dealer thing worked with Whites, I could view a dealers web site and see details and prices on everything but Whites. My initial impression was that they were embarrassed to sell Whites and more or less were treating them as second class units on the site. I called a couple and was told they couldn't do internet sales, only local. My reaction was more or less that Whites just didn't want my money and seemed a little too full of themselves. I know now they wanted to make sure customers were taken care of in a personal manner by a local person, but that isn't necessarily obvious when just window shopping.

I also hope they come around and create some new designs including water proof models. I don't mean putting a All Pro sticker on an MXT either. I don't care about getting wet but I know a lot of people do.

The xlt never had one internal change since the first one made. How many different decals has it had? Lots. They wanted to know how many "all pro" decals I needed to convert the mxtpro to allpros. It's the same machine except for the coil!!!!! I don't want Whites to go under. I want to see them rise from the ashes. I just don't see it happening. Too little too late.

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The xlt never had one internal change since the
> first one made. How many different decals has it
> had? Lots. They wanted to know how many "all pro"
> decals I needed to convert the mxtpro to allpros.
> It's the same machine except for the coil!!!!! I
> don't want Whites to go under. I want to see them
> rise from the ashes. I just don't see it
> happening. Too little too late.

Stickers and paint jobs. Now that you mention it I actually lost a lot of trust with all of the switcharoo stuff in the looks of various models over the years. Now when a new model is announced the first thing I think of is "I wonder what new stickers they put on". To mean that screams deceit. Look at all of the confusion with coils that are the same thing with different names and colored stickers. Or the MXT 300. I remember thinking they must have been stuck with a warehouse full of those boat anchors so they painted a new name on the MXT to get rid of them. Again, I hope they straighten up, but they have some stuff to work on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2015 10:06PM by TabWhisperer.

TabWhisperer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The xlt never had one internal change since the
> > first one made. How many different decals has
> it
> > had? Lots. They wanted to know how many "all
> pro"
> > decals I needed to convert the mxtpro to
> allpros.
> > It's the same machine except for the coil!!!!!
> I
> > don't want Whites to go under. I want to see
> them
> > rise from the ashes. I just don't see it
> > happening. Too little too late.
>
> Stickers and paint jobs. Now that you mention it
> I actually lost a lot of trust with all of the
> switcharoo stuff in the looks of various models
> over the years. Now when a new model is announced
> the first thing I think of is "I wonder what new
> stickers they put on". To mean that screams
> deceit. Look at all of the confusion with coils
> that are the same thing with different names and
> colored stickers. Or the MXT 300. I remember
> thinking they must have been stuck with a
> warehouse full of those boat anchors so they
> painted a new name on the MXT to get rid of them.
> Again, I hope they straighten up, but they have
> some stuff to work on
I didn't like the marketing for the mx5. They claim it's based on mxt technology. The mxt mxtpro performs nothing like the mx5! It's more like a Super Prizm. They simply need an Atpro killer in the same price range. Even if they have to reduce their margins to regain any market share.

TabWhisperer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all it's great history it sure does look like
> a ship without a captain. I have always had super
> service from Whites. As a consumer I have found
> their business model of brick and mortar stores
> shackled in how they sell the products
> frustrating. I am not crazy about my local Whites
> dealer. Then I have found out by word of mouth
> about some other dealers that aren't listed on the
> main web site. Then there are others that are
> listed but no longer in business or at least never
> answer any email. That was a couple of years ago.
> I gave up and found a dealer in another state.
> If you want to sell something why make it hard for
> your potential customers? it probably worked well
> pre-internet, but now I can get more help on
> forums and faster than driving 10 miles to a local
> store hoping the right guy might be there when I
> walk in the door.


if i remember correctly,for years whitey always stated "when asked"
that "their" coils are engineered.and made for "their" detectors,and as such,
offered the "best" performance!..apparently,they may not believe this any more with the
introduction of current competing after market coils?...i'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

khouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The xlt never had one internal change since the
> first one made. How many different decals has it
> had? Lots. They wanted to know how many "all pro"
> decals I needed to convert the mxtpro to allpros.
> It's the same machine except for the coil!!!!! I
> don't want Whites to go under. I want to see them
> rise from the ashes. I just don't see it
> happening. Too little too late.


i believe they WILL rise from the ashes,just like the proverbial phoenix,
and once again be a top tier player.they are up against it,and will come "shining through!"

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Like GMC who said you get what we give you and like it because we are GMC. How did that work out for them? You have to watch where your consumers are going and be willing to give them what they want..... or brother they will go somewhere elce to get it. Its no longer MADE IN AMERICA..... now days you cant tell whos making what once you get a finished product. Whites seems to be one step behind ML. Lot of new machines coming into country now days. Are they better, or just new and different?