Are most older coins really that deep???

I give this a lot of thought at times. I realize there are things as a result of nature that can make older coins deeper even more modern coins too. I also realize there are areas of the USA where the soil allows/makes for some serious sink rates. But on average throughout the US in soil that has not been say plowed/disc/heavy equipment work done and barring the likes of what woodchucks and other burrowing animals that could cause coins to be deeper, are the older coins as deep as we think they are??? I also wonder say the old square nails, I seem to find them when I want, they don't seem overly deep. So why would a old coin sink but not an old square nail??? Is too much being made out of depth??? And this discounting the need for pulse units to achieve decent depth in the hotter soils found in some areas of the US. I'm seeing some older coin finds with some pretty shallow depths being reported; especially with the CoRe and Racer units with small coils attached. Are XP with the Deus, Nokta with the CoRe, Makro with the Racer and Fisher with the F-19 on the right track??

And let me add, How come folks can find arrow heads?? I do realize some of the arrow heads become visible from heavy rains, flooding, construction, and the working of the fields with farm implements. But aren't arrow heads considerably older than old coins of the USA?? So shouldn't they on average be a lot deeper than old coins???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 02:07AM by tnsharpshooter.

It all depends on soil stability. But in many cases, especially older areas, I fully believe there are many old coins at depths beyond our reach.

Another thing to take into consideration is the amount of trash targets that are above or adjacent to that deep coin masking it. A coin 150 years in the ground, assuming continuous or many subsequent years of human activity, has a lot of opportunities to have masking trash target(s) dropped above it.

I always get a chuckle when someone says most of the older coins in their area are only 5-6 inches deep, or something to that effect.

As Tom says...how do you know what you're missing when you don't even know it exists?

My 2 oldest coins are both 1853's. One was 10 inches the other 7 to 8. I did measure the 10 inch coin. I found one shield nickel and one Indian on top of the ground. I have found zincs to 8 inches. But I would say on average my oldest coins were deeper ones. 8 plus inches. It's probably because they are the only ones left. The easier ones have been cherry picked...

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

But aren't arrow heads considerably older than old coins of the USA?? So shouldn't they on average be a lot deeper than old coins???

The more worms and other critters are actcive the more they turn the soil over causing coins to sink and also they push soil up to the surface to cover coins. Worms typically aren't active in dry desert soil without humus so no such action. Heavy desert rains can liquify the ground, washing away soil to uncover some coins on grades and in areas with dips and valleys, cover coins.

Old coins can be deep or shallow, hard to tell unless you know the soil history.

anything can be that deep but also can be masked and not be deep

LowBoy

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khouse Wrote:
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> My 2 oldest coins are both 1853's. One was 10
> inches the other 7 to 8. I did measure the 10
> inch coin. I found one shield nickel and one
> Indian on top of the ground. I have found zincs
> to 8 inches. But I would say on average my oldest
> coins were deeper ones. 8 plus inches. It's
> probably because they are the only ones left. The
> easier ones have been cherry picked...

Kenny,that is a GREAT point. I'm not trying to make the obvious more obviouser...yeah,I said "obviouser"...but the few sites I've been to that I know with a high degree of certainty that they have NOT been detected,the coins are only a few to five inches down,if that. This is some clay,some sand,some loam,etc. I have a good mix going on here apparently. The parks and schools do have some older coins but man,you gotta really hang all the skills out there to find them,because they ARE the only ones left. Silver quarters are like trying to find hens teeth,they have been picked up long ago. My latest strategy is fence lines,out of the way areas,hard to get to areas(under bushes,low hanging/broken branches,etc.) to try and find ground that hasn't been swept,or swept much. The small coil/DD strategy is of course in play,but sooner or later things get SO thin that it becomes frustrating to look in the same places for stuff that may be there but who knows if it really is. I would MUCH rather put a ratio on a place...if I don't get an X type signal in Y hours of detecting it isn't worth it to ME anymore to keep squeezing that turnip and hoping. Diminishing returns....at some point the "possibly deeper coins" don't matter to me anymore.

Most of the coins in my area, are from surface to 7 or 8 inches deep. They just cannot make it through that red subsoil.

I think the answer to your arrow head question would be more related to mass vs weight. The density of a coin is more conducive to sinking than that of a knapped piece of flint/obsidian, etc... As for the other, I guess the best answer is that it depends....lol. Too many variables in play. Although I like your approach to the phenomenon of sink rates!

I know someone who lives on a old farm. They say after every winter they see more and more square nails on the surface. They gather them up all they see, and then the next spring more square nails are on the surface. Don't know if coins have the same affect after a cold winter......Jack

A coin stops sinking when it reaches a point where the soil (or whatever the coin is on top of) density equals or exceeds the density of the coin.

As long as the coin is more dense than what's underneath it, it will sink.

Silently waiting for one of us to come along and rescue it for posterity...

marcomo Wrote:
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> A coin stops sinking when it reaches a point where
> the soil (or whatever the coin is on top of)
> density equals or exceeds the density of the coin.
>
>
> As long as the coin is more dense than what's
> underneath it, it will sink.
>
> Silently waiting for one of us to come along and
> rescue it for posterity...
I think that's called the point of rejection - really

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

I don't believe a coin actually sinks that much at all. Imagine 100 years of grass clippings decomposing over the top of a dropped coin. I've hunted wooded areas and the coins aren't nearly as deep.

"I've come across soil removal on land that is about to go under construction and have found coins in the remaining dirt which would put the original coin depths at anywhere from 16" to 18"

A beach hunt saw a large cut in the edge of a dune and a large £2 coin was found at depth in the sand and adding up the two put that coin at an original 24"

Last week on a wet sand expanse that had too much sand in reveled just 2 coins where previously anything up to 20 / 30 coins was normal for the area!

We haven't scratched the surface!"

How many times have you dug a signal down 10 plus inches,somtimes much deeper, only to find iron of some type?

I figure that if iron is that deep there is a chance that the coins are also.

marcomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A coin stops sinking when it reaches a point where
> the soil (or whatever the coin is on top of)
> density equals or exceeds the density of the coin.
>
>
> As long as the coin is more dense than what's
> underneath it, it will sink.
>
> Silently waiting for one of us to come along and
> rescue it for posterity...


Exactly

that's why coins dropped in sand sink until they hit the "hardpan" -- which can be anything from a few inches to a few feet or more "depending"...

I've found coins and rings/jewelry in sand on Lake Michigan beaches (as well as in the water) with PI machines up to nearly 2 ft deep on SEVERAL occasions and it's always at the point of the hardpan at which they rest out of reach of even the best/deepest VLF waterproof machines on the market (ALL of which I've owned/tested/used) at one point or another (and some several times over) over the past 3 decades...

Also - it's at that point at which you don't find/detect ANY coins/rings/etc any deeper either... Once they reach the hard/dense surface of the hardpan = they no longer "sink"...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 10:51AM by MichiganRelicHunter.

I think this is a debate that is going to be going on as long as we have this hobby.-----I've recovered a Morgan dollar at 2" in a bed of nails (dry ground in an old fairgrounds)-----my wife has recovered a Morgan dollar at 12" deep (moist turf in an old park)---it can be both ways (depth).------As they say--there is SO MANY variables-----------Del.

In my neck of the woods expect them to be 6 inches plus in most cases..Of course found a seated dime under a tree right under the leaves and felt the tree roots may have raised it....

I've dug some deep coins in our hunted out SF bay area parks, dug a measured 11" deep dateless SLQ...that was a rush, was right under a root, dug down about 7" and thunk hit the root, clean signal still on my F75, not a peep out of the pinpointer, and finally got some dirt out from around the root and the pinpointer was starting to make some noise. I carefully finished getting fingerfulls of dirt out, fully expecting it to be junk and out pops a SLQ!!

My experience seems to match what NASA Tom said in his first DVD pretty much exactly. I've found old coins shallow and very deep. The shallow coins seem to always be in the more inorganic soil, where the grass is sparce or on the bare forest floor. Lush green lawns are a whole different story, everything seems to be deeper. I've dug zincs at 9 inches in lush grass, which always makes me grit my teeth.

I always thought traffic down streets always has provided vibrations and made coins sink deeper.

If............. just for only 24 hours.............. everyone on this forum................ had a detector that would only detect targets (including coins) in the 12" to 24" depth strata..................... their 'mindset' (((world))) would be turned up-side-down....... forever.

((( A Indian arrowhead is a light/low-density rock........ nearly the same density as dirt............ and will somewhat 'float' in/on the dirt. Coins are high-density/compressed/forged heavy metal...... with a sink-rate relative to its/their density ))).

Quote

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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If............. just for only 24 hours.............. everyone on this forum................ had a detector that would only detect targets (including coins) in the 12" to 24" depth strata..................... their 'mindset' (((world))) would be turned up-side-down....... forever. ((( A Indian arrowhead is a light/low-density rock........ nearly the same density as dirt............ and will somewhat 'float' in/on the dirt. Coins are high-density/compressed/forged heavy metal...... with a sink-rate relative to its/their density ))).

Reinforces exactly what I said above in quoting marcomo

Quote

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
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Exactly

that's why coins dropped in sand sink until they hit the "hardpan" -- which can be anything from a few inches to a few feet or more "depending"...

I've found coins and rings/jewelry in sand on Lake Michigan beaches (as well as in the water) with PI machines up to nearly 2 ft deep on SEVERAL occasions and it's always at the point of the hardpan at which they rest out of reach of even the best/deepest VLF waterproof machines on the market (ALL of which I've owned/tested/used) at one point or another (and some several times over) over the past 3 decades...

Also - it's at that point at which you don't find/detect ANY coins/rings/etc any deeper either... Once they reach the hard/dense surface of the hardpan = they no longer "sink"...

We are only scratching the surface..


And arrowhead to a coin is apples to oranges..

Ive seen relics come from 3 ft or more..small relics like bullets and buttons around here in my bad hard dirt.......

Down onthe coast Ive seen 3 ringers in test pits at 6 ft...Where could we imagine the buckles are at??

Ive seen small relics below the surface of the hardpan in construction sites...WEIRD!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If............. just for only 24
> hours.............. everyone on this
> forum................ had a detector that would
> only detect targets (including coins) in the 12"
> to 24" depth strata..................... their
> 'mindset' (((world))) would be turned
> up-side-down....... forever.

Sounds great Tom. Where do I put my order in?! I'll assume it discriminates out all iron so I'm only digging non ferrous targets.. we can call it the CZ-HS!. Oh and I'd prefer wireless please... :-)

Here when we have droughts, the soil will crack and open up enough to swallow small dogs and children. It gets so bad that kids can't practice on certain football fields because the risk of breaking an ankle.

This totally supports the Worm theory for how coins sink. Organic rich the worms do it. Not organic it is mechanical. Statements about sinking to point of equilibrium which I used to accept as truth do not seem as likely any more. Bouncy of a coin in dirt - it floats no sink - so again worms creating cavities underneath allowing coin to fall and then being covered make sense.

Stuff near water is a whole different animal and a good topic for another post.

So it is a combination of creatures and mechanical mechanisms tied to soil conditions. So the best way to tell how deep old coins will be in an area is to find a few!

DirtyJohn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My experience seems to match what NASA Tom said in
> his first DVD pretty much exactly. I've found old
> coins shallow and very deep. The shallow coins
> seem to always be in the more inorganic soil,
> where the grass is sparce or on the bare forest
> floor. Lush green lawns are a whole different
> story, everything seems to be deeper. I've dug
> zincs at 9 inches in lush grass, which always
> makes me grit my teeth.

Bryanna - Nebraska

Current - New to me but not new MXT Pro and T2 SE2 - Previous Minelab Sovereign GT, Minelab Safari, Whites DFX, Whites Eagle Spectrum
Smile its a good for you!

All of these methods mentioned in this thread are valid factors in the depth that coins/treasure are found at. Always remember too that even undisturbed soils vary greatly, not only from region to region, but even within a small lot sometimes. The underlying geological and geomorphological history can produce quite different soils. Pay close attention to the soil profile(depths and thicknesses of the soil's zones) when you start digging in a new area. eg, in deep loamy soil, coins may sink out of reach relatively quickly whereas in a area with a clay rich subsoil, they may just sink a couple of inches to the top of the clay and stop. Learn what the soil is doing on your site and you will have a leg up on where the coins may be lurking.

personal anecdote: don't forget the effects of frost heave; its real. at my home (at least as I was told by the original owner) the plan was to build with the garage on the north side of the house. But they sited the foundation too close to the road by the building code, so they had to put the driveway on the other side of the house. Thing was, they had already put down the gravel for the original plan. so they scraped up what gravel they could, filled in with topsoil at their first try and put the driveway in on the south side of the house. That was 25+years ago. To this day every spring I am picking up limestone gravel that the freeze thaw cycle of winter has shoved above the surface. (and I clean up ALL the gravel every year)

oR could be deep targets were normal depth coins that have been covered up with fill over decades, to be honest never really found coins that deep , nails well that is another story.
I usually get the deeper coins with larger coils that give a few more inches of depth. HH

Around tree roots targets can be all over the map, I have given up many times trying to dig deep targets near a tree.

robertj298 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe a coin actually sinks that much at
> all. Imagine 100 years of grass clippings
> decomposing over the top of a dropped coin. I've
> hunted wooded areas and the coins aren't nearly as
> deep.


I agree, inthe Az desert I have found 30,000 yr. Old meteorites on the surface and in areas where there is alot lawn mowing, pull tabs (which shouldn,t sink , since they have about the same S.G. as soil) 5 or more in. deep. In wooded areas I have found old coins almost on the surface cover only with pine needles and duff. As an experiment lay a coin on the ground and cover it with a box or something for 50 or so years, remove the box and see how far it has sunk. I would bet it is within 2 in. of the surface. In archcological digs most stuff of the same era is all found at the same level.


.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If............. just for only 24
> hours.............. everyone on this
> forum................ had a detector that would
> only detect targets (including coins) in the 12"
> to 24" depth strata..................... their
> 'mindset' (((world))) would be turned
> up-side-down....... forever.
>

It's bad enough finding memorial cents at 8 inches. Imagine digging 24 inches and finding them! #$@%&&&!!

Wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?