Do head to head comparisons really tell the whole story

I like to do head to head comparisons on targets, but do they reveal the true total picture. I've seen some you tube video for example when doing head to head the op say something like, " I can hear it only because I know it's there".

But which detector actually found the target originally???? Is this important??? I think so.

Detectors are all different for the most part. I mean some detectors can be swept faster than others and still hit targets deeper than mid depths. The area of a respective detector's coil can have a larger hot spot vs other detectors (coil size vs coil size). And wouldn't this in itself lead to a much more forgiving approach to many targets and be able to alert the user to.

Yes, these head to head are nice, but I think it would maybe be nice when doing them and videoing to do 4 things. Vary coil height for comparisons, compare the total angular degrees of detection, vary coil from back to front when sweeping identifying the total span of the coil/detector detection and last vary sweep speed for comparisons.

And this is not necessarily tied to depth/separation capabilities.

Cheers
David

I don't know the technical stuff much, but do wonder at times, for example I hunted a park field a dozen times. The field was small and knew what area was covered.

Well what I'm getting at is why do targets like silver suddenly appear on certain days when hunting the same field with same detector and coil? the only clue right or wrong was the field was wet from rain my
settings were the same..lot of variables the average detectorists may not be aware of, I generally read
field reports and what other owners say when buy new detectors though location is paramount. hh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2015 01:17AM by guvmore.

Like Ive said before I wont do head to heads and video it unless Im blown away by results and want to show it.....

But these videos of the battles of 5 machines ...NOPE....if you know what your doing with each machine you can make one come out to the good even though the settings seem right and fair.....


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Guvmore, there can be many causes.
But IMO stock sized coils and larger present a problem. They tend to lead a person into a false sense. The more experienced have learned moreso. With the bigger soils; especially on the deeper targets, a person needs to actually overlap their overlaps when sweeping. Ground minerals can aggravate this too.

You see most folks when they look down are focused on the front and back edge of coil. When they progress their sweeps they key on this for actual coil progression.

An example, using a F75DST upgraded on 4 bar soil (medium mineralized) in boost mode. To detect a 10" say bullet, there is really only a spot no larger than a golf ball that's hot on the coil that will give a high tone. If I sweep the 10" deep bullet slightly outside of this golf ball sized area I get an iron tone (low). If I get even further outside of this area on the coil, I may hear a broken iron tone or nothing at all.

And this example above can also vary depending on sweep speed.

A good trick is put some orange/yellow tape (nonmetallic) across your coil. Place the tape where you will have outlined maybe 3 inches span. Then focus on this when you sweep for coil advancement.

Smaller coils can present this illusion as well, but not as much.

I own 6 detectors from the lowly compadre up to the mighty deus and can't say I've had a bad day with any of them. I cannot count how many times I have taken a break while detecting an old homestead with my deus and while holding a beer and swinging a compadre I have found good stuff.

I did my own testing with the racer and the F19 I had my video camera I was loaned the F19 from a nice guy on this forum and took the racer to a old area with lots of iron...They saw the same targets but it was the audio and the way the racer was built that convinced it is a better machine. You can't do this and make it perfect but for the most part it seemed to work...did the same with the racer and the dues with the same results. On one find the deus was not hitting the target as well as the racer was but made an ajustment and named it racer. I think the deus is one of the best machines for my type of hunting and adding the racer I never feel like I am missing a detector for my hunts. I think the next racer will do even more and then some and I think the deus and the update will really give us a different way to hunt and open up more hunted out sites. Just lower your disc and train your brain how to hunt that way and you will find targets that were missed or not seen...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

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Welgund Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I own 6 detectors from the lowly compadre up to
> the mighty deus and can't say I've had a bad day
> with any of them. I cannot count how many times I
> have taken a break while detecting an old
> homestead with my deus and while holding a beer
> and swinging a compadre I have found good stuff.

The beer had to be the reason. lol

The real test would be a couple or three detectorist each with their machine and look at the finds bag at the end of the hunt. If it happens many times where a certain person or machine keeps filling the find bag there is something to it. The thing is that most people are lone hunters. I enjoy hunting with my diggin buddies. Everything "we" find in my way of thinking. I always look at it as a group effort, great satisfaction that mindset.

Take time to really know a unit from perhaps a day to a month or maybe even a season.....Doubt if the individual testing would have this knowledge even with one not two units as the head to head I am seeing are relatively new kids on the block...All units sure have their plus and minus features and some actually work better in certain areas and States...can certainly also be a factor....

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guvmore, there can be many causes.
> But IMO stock sized coils and larger present a
> problem. They tend to lead a person into a false
> sense. The more experienced have learned moreso.
> With the bigger soils; especially on the deeper
> targets, a person needs to actually overlap their
> overlaps when sweeping. Ground minerals can
> aggravate this too.
>
> You see most folks when they look down are focused
> on the front and back edge of coil. When they
> progress their sweeps they key on this for actual
> coil progression.

Excellent observation David,and I've noticed the previously missed targets in areas where I've been before several times seem to be deeper. I attribute that to not overlapping enough,as I run settings on both my machines pretty much the same every time. Once,with my IDXPro,I found a 1911 Barber dime,about 6" down in an area both my buddy with his ATPro and my 950 coil had been through a lot. Well,that dime is very thin,very well worn and if I moved that coil 1" off center it was GONE! Like....GONE! So,we would've had to have missed that 2" diameter "sweet spot" several times,and I think we did.
Other times though....coins have just magically popped out of the ground at relatively shallow depths,4-5". Just a few days ago I bagged a super nice 1891 Indian from an old farmhouse front yard that I have HAMMERED 15-20 times. All of the sudden it was just....there. No explanation. There could be variables involving weather,environmental conditions of different kinds,etc. We may never know unless extensive and expensive testing is done. For me,it just keeps it interesting. You just never know when something great is going to jump out.
>
> An example, using a F75DST upgraded on 4 bar soil
> (medium mineralized) in boost mode. To detect a
> 10" say bullet, there is really only a spot no
> larger than a golf ball that's hot on the coil
> that will give a high tone. If I sweep the 10"
> deep bullet slightly outside of this golf ball
> sized area I get an iron tone (low). If I get
> even further outside of this area on the coil, I
> may hear a broken iron tone or nothing at all.
>
> And this example above can also vary depending on
> sweep speed.
>
> A good trick is put some orange/yellow tape
> (nonmetallic) across your coil. Place the tape
> where you will have outlined maybe 3 inches span.
> Then focus on this when you sweep for coil
> advancement.
>
> Smaller coils can present this illusion as well,
> but not as much.

Yes and No. You can make a machine look like a Dog in head to heads if you wanted? But I would rather look at different machines on the same target before it's dug to see how each machine reacts. Me and Bill_S (wjs) on the forum compare a lot of signals when we hunt together. Now there are times one of us will not get a solid hit on on a target the other has found. But NOW knowing a target is there we can tweak the machine to hit that target. But you don't know and can't spend the time making countless adjustments to hit one target only to miss others in the field. This is why most of the time we make little adjustments in our machines while checking each others signals.

Kenny
[www.youtube.com]

They all weigh different also, I love the old Sov but it is heavy for me. The Ace are light but don't think they find deep silver as the Sov. Some have more bells/whistles then I really care for all different in many aspects. hh

stay with one detector and "learn it"
different coils and all!..rest is site selection.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

For some reason my i get a much better handle on a machines worth the longer I us it. I always say.... never sell a detector until its paid for its self.... then you have a real indication on its strength or weakness. I cant really take two machines out and say one is better than the other.... I need some time on them.