Teknetics T2 LTD (F75 LTD) CL Mode Post from Dave J.

Dave Johnson was nice enough to post some tips on using CL (Cache) and BP (Boost Process) mode on the Teknetics forum from FM I thought might be interesting to readers here:

Posted by: Dave J.
Date: September 24, 2015 08:59AM

"Cache mode" on most F75 and T2 versions is very similar to "Slow mode" on the F70. The response is slow, with improved sensitivity to large deep targets. However this means that the signals from shallow targets will smear, with a cost in both sensitivity and in ability to discriminate and ID targets. Shallow targets will do better in cache/slow mode if you slow down to a crawl, but the default and boost modes work better for the shallower stuff. And, if you really do want best response on deep stuff, all metals mode goes deeper than disc mode. For finding the deep stuff, an alternative to Cache/Slow mode is to search in Boost mode all metals, then switch to disc when you suspect you're fighting trash. ........Another way to deal with shallower stuff is to search in Cache/Slow mode with the searchcoil lofted several inches above the ground. This will result in a big cut in response to shallow trash, but perhaps more importantly it will achieve a large reduction in ground mineral interference (since ground itself is the shallowest target) and in mineralized ground will usually enable deeper detection than if you were scrubbing the surface in a misguided attempt to "get as close as possible to the deep targets".

SUMMARIZING: Cache/Slow mode is basically for locating large deep stuff in areas where there's not so much trash as to defeat the enterprise.

--Dave J.

ZZZZZZZZZ

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

No disrespect, as in the previous "comment," here. If I wasn't interested, I'd just not read the post or having read it, make no comment at all.
I found it informative. Thanks.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Lawrenzo ................. you certainly have been on a campaign to slam Teknetics/Fisher ........... as much as possible/when ever possible.............. for the past couple of years. Yes, new inventions take a long time; especially in this beeper/widget/niche/small (((but growing))) industry. . . . . . whereby R&D money is industry-below-average.

Great info except for Non Inquiring Minds.

I have an F75 and I just got a new camera. As I was reading about all the specialized "modes" this camera has for stuff like portraits, landscapes - even birdwatching, I suddenly realized that the software was the real product discriminator. Each of these modes changed dozens of variables in the basic control,parameters of the camera. The camera has basically become a computer that happens to take pictures.

Reading Dave's post above, I realized that the same thing is true of current software controlled metal detectors. When analog circuits were replaced with microprocessors, It became possible to completely "rewire" the device by changing software settings.

Whites was probably the first to go down this road. I have an XLT and had a V3. Whites elected to let the user directly control just about everything. The result (for me at least) was confusion in a maze of on screen menus. There were modes which adjusted several parameters, but to modify them you had guess or look up which parameters were involved and then dig through the menus to find and adjust each one if you wanted to tweak anything.

Deus has gone down the same road with modes, but in each one you can "drill down" in one menu and view and adjust the underlying parameters.

First Texas machines have apparently gone a different way. Here, there are "modes" where, like my new camera, selecting a mode changes multiple operating parameters. Even the seemingly dedicated,controls like discrimination are in fact linked to several control parameters. You have a limited ability to modify the modes however. I guess he idea is to avoid a complex user interface and the kind of very long lists of "pet" parameter settings developed by folks for other machines.

As new knowledge is gained by the engineering folks, software can be further optimized to improve or modify the machine. So far only Deus has used their field upgrade capability much, although the CTX also has the capability. This kind of firmware update capability will likely become something we all expect in a top of the line machine.

Not sure what part of this exciting process some folks find so snoozzzzz inducing.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 02:26PM by lytle78.

Good information Brian, thanks for sharing.

In regards to Lawrenzo, I purchased Lawrenzo's T2 when they first came out, the original version. He only had it for a short period, Lawrenzo is a great guy, pretty sharp and a good hunter. He right away seen the T2 was not for his area, Lawrenzo lives higher up in gold country were ground is more mineralized tougher ground to detect.

So I can see why he may not be in favor with the release of the new T2 especially it being the original version, I too are gun shy. Would like another T2 but the coil over loading issue and EMI issues are too well remembered.

The first batch of T2's had issues, some did that is. One of the issues First Texas couldn't get rid of was the coil over loading, EMI was another now I never had a later version to see if these issues were resolved.

I will say First Texas has great service, wasn't long after buying the T2 from Lawrenzo the handle snapped off. Sent the machine in and First Texas sent me a new model, no questions asked a brand new T2 boy that was great!

However, the coil falsing continued in extreamly bad ground, so I was careful to take a backup when hunting areas with hot ground. EMI continued in some areas but overall the T2 was a pretty darn good relic machine and coin shooter in most of my areas.

I may spring for the new one, great price and darn good relic detector. Waiting on reading a few more reports from the new users, coil over loading stuff like that hoping to hear this has been resolved for bad dirt.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 03:19PM by Old California.

Would be killer if they did some form of DST implementation on the re-released T2.

I have no idea who would buy an Omega 8500 when you could buy a new T2 for $400, unless the 8500 is that much better (it may well be).

I wonder if they'll follow suit with a re-release on the original F75 for $400?

I'm sure the blow out deal on the T2 is in light of a new flagship Teknetics machine coming out next year.

Lawrenzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ZZZZZZZZZ


We all know very well by now your ever faithfull love of the French Fry served with a helping of Turkey.
Nothing wrong with that!

Minelabs and Fishers have been digging coins from fields done to death with French Fries.
Coins even pre-dating Christ himself.

So for Jezus H Christ,... and the coins and relics pre-dating him,... GIVE IT A REST!
It not a religion,... it's a metal detector.

And keeping in this food related post,... where do you think they got the Musterd?

HH
Johnb

Love the 75's boosted all metal mode in low target low emi areas...cant beat it.....gotta stay on top of the GBing though ....and you can easily tell when it needs to be done.....deep.

Old California Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In regards to Lawrenzo, I purchased Lawrenzo's T2
> when they first came out, the original version. He
> only had it for a short period, Lawrenzo is a
> great guy, pretty sharp and a good hunter. He
> right away seen the T2 was not for his area,
> Lawrenzo lives higher up in gold country were
> ground is more mineralized tougher ground to
> detect.


At least now I know what happened to "his" T2. And " mineralized tougher ground" had nothing to do with it.

Good Reading.

Brian, thanks for the Dave J tips. I appreciate hearing from the few who truly know what makes this MD thing work. I remember the days when I was searching the forums for signs that Lawrenzo was still with us. Even his snoring is a comfort for me. And yes we all know who he is high on these days, but then I replay his awesome YouTube for the G2 (in my head since it was removed from online) and smile.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Yeah, Lawernzo ditched his homegrown girlfriends from El Paso for a French floozy and an exotic number from the Sultan's Palace - I wonder if we will ever get him back?

Oh well, as long as he's happy!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Lorenzo actually meant 'ZZZorro was here!'

Crosby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old California Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In regards to Lawrenzo, I purchased Lawrenzo's
> T2
> > when they first came out, the original version.
> He
> > only had it for a short period, Lawrenzo is a
> > great guy, pretty sharp and a good hunter. He
> > right away seen the T2 was not for his area,
> > Lawrenzo lives higher up in gold country were
> > ground is more mineralized tougher ground to
> > detect.
>
>
> At least now I know what happened to "his" T2. And
> " mineralized tougher ground" had nothing to do
> with it.


I was wondering about that T2 .... well at least you didn't get stuck with a locked V3 with a flunky coil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2015 07:39AM by Cal_cobra.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would be killer if they did some form of DST
> implementation on the re-released T2.
>
> I have no idea who would buy an Omega 8500 when
> you could buy a new T2 for $400, unless the 8500
> is that much better (it may well be).
>
> I wonder if they'll follow suit with a re-release
> on the original F75 for $400?
>
> I'm sure the blow out deal on the T2 is in light
> of a new flagship Teknetics machine coming out
> next year.

Not sure what an Omega 800 costs, but I think the T2 and Omega (now) must be close in price?

I mentioned it in the 8500 thread and Monty agreed (and others have said the same) - On coins the Omega 8000 was a better overall machine than the T2. I had a lot of hours on the T2 and when I tried an Omega at the same place I had been hitting with the T2, I just cleaned up. The place opened up for me. I was shocked. I thought I was using the T2 wrong or the like. It just wasn't the best in my ground for whatever reason.

The only other time I experienced that with a new machine was with the E-Trac. I'm not saying the Omega 8000 is a better overall machine (e.g. relics included, different ground conditions, preferences, etc.) but in my medium iron mineralized ground, it was clearly a better machine.
I had already a few years of detecting under my belt so I wasn't overwhelmed with the fiery and chatty T2.

I don't know, there is just something really nice about the Omega 8000. Not as fun as the E-Trac, but was better balanced. Not as fast as the T2 and not as well built, but the performance on coins was just better (more and deeper).

Best,
Albert

Quote
Cal_cobra
Dave Johnson was nice enough to post some tips on using CL (Cache) and BP (Boost Process) mode on the Teknetics forum from FM I thought might be interesting to readers here:

Quote
Posted by: Dave J.
Date: September 24, 2015 08:59AM

"Cache mode" on most F75 and T2 versions is very similar to "Slow mode" on the F70. The response is slow, with improved sensitivity to large deep targets. However this means that the signals from shallow targets will smear, with a cost in both sensitivity and in ability to discriminate and ID targets. Shallow targets will do better in cache/slow mode if you slow down to a crawl, but the default and boost modes work better for the shallower stuff. And, if you really do want best response on deep stuff, all metals mode goes deeper than disc mode. For finding the deep stuff, an alternative to Cache/Slow mode is to search in Boost mode all metals, then switch to disc when you suspect you're fighting trash. ........ Another way to deal with shallower stuff is to search in Cache/Slow mode with the searchcoil lofted several inches above the ground. This will result in a big cut in response to shallow trash, but perhaps more importantly it will achieve a large reduction in ground mineral interference (since ground itself is the shallowest target) and in mineralized ground will usually enable deeper detection than if you were scrubbing the surface in a misguided attempt to "get as close as possible to the deep targets."

SUMMARIZING: Cache/Slow mode is basically for locating large deep stuff in areas where there's not so much trash as to defeat the enterprise.

--Dave J

Brian, your copy-and-paste post here if very good ... for those who can understand it. I know there are many forum readers who don't. They might understand On and Off, and beyond that many will get lost trying to figure out Discrimination, and Ground Balance really leaves many scratching their heads. Then you start adding other terms like ":filters," "frequencies," "processors," "analog and digital," and ... well, modern detectors are quite overwhelming for many to try and figure out.

What is very nice for folks to understand here is that in this case, and on many other occasions, we will see a response directly from some companies' lead engineers or their marketing rep to help clear the air and explain things to consumers on many Forums. We see it from Dave J. at FTP, and we also see if from Dilek and someone else from Nokta and Makro. Garrett, Tesoro and White's are three long-time manufacturers who don't give consumers this kind of open responses, so a 'Thank You' to Dave J. and the FTP crew in this example, and a 'Thank You' to you for bringing this reply over here.

Quote
NASA-Tom
Lawrenzo ................. you certainly have been on a campaign to slam Teknetics/Fisher ........... as much as possible/when ever possible.............. for the past couple of years. Yes, new inventions take a long time; especially in this beeper/widget/niche/small (((but growing))) industry. . . . . . whereby R&D money is industry-below-average.

I agree that we're enjoying a hobby that is in a small segment that tends to cause less big money flow to support advanced engineering. However, having been involved in this great hobby for half-a-century, and trying to monitor the popular trend in activity and growth, I disagree that it is a "growing" industry, at least here in the USA.

It was here in the USA where I felt metal detecting, from a hobby and business standpoint, really got its start and grew rapidly. Many innovative circuitry designs and advancements came about from our consumer interest in the USA, and many foreign countries either were not into it or even aware of the magnitude, and in some cases it was simply banned. During the latter '70s and into the early '80s you could take a drive around a fair-sized town on a nice weather weekend and spot 15 to 30 people out detecting, individually, as a small family, or perhaps a group of detecting buddies. They would be at parks and schools, vacant lots and parking strips.

By the mid-to-late '80s there were several hundred very active metal detecting clubs all across the US with good-sized membership numbers comprised of very active and enthused members. Competition Hunts had been around since their early start in the very late '60s and early '70s, with many being promoted from East Coast to West Coast in better weather months. Most stores with magazine racks had Lost Treasure, Western & Eastern Treasure, Treasure Search, Treasure Found, and Treasure magazines that promoted this great hobby.

We had regular phones and that meant phone books and you could travel from big to medium to smaller communities and still find one to a dozen metal detector dealers listed in them, many who had a shop, stocked a lot of inventory, and knew how to detect and were there to help their customers. A lot of us got started in the mid-60s to maybe 1980 when there was a lot of activity, dealers, and clubs. If someone got a late start in 1980 and they were 25 years old then, still a younger person, and they have hung in there to be still trying to find stuff today, that would make them 60 years old.

A lot of us are older, and in my travels when I visit a few of the dwindling number of detecting clubs, most of the participants are in the 55 to 75 year old bracket. A majority, it appears, and we just don't have the younger generation finding much interest in metal detecting today. Nothing like when I got my start in '65, or those I saw get a start when I was a detector dealer from '77 through the '80s.

Today we have many schools that are fenced and we are locked out. Parks where the cities have a "no detecting" policy. And many of the out-and-away locations have been well hunted or have been built over. Many foreign countries have seen a lot of growing interest in metal detecting in the past 20 to 30 years, but in the good old USA, I don't think so. With that thought we have also seen some foreign metal detector manufacturers who seem to have come on the scene with newer detector concepts, more competitive pricing, and what a lot of them offer really rivals what our USA manufactures have been asking for what they make. That's why so many have been, and are, struggling to compete with any new and creative products.

Just my thoughts on that topic. I agree, it's tough for many USA detector manufacturers to get up-to-speed with the industry trends, or be a functional part of those trends. I see FTP as being the one manufacturer who has ample engineering staff, and a more active dealer base, to be setting the pace, so to speak, with modern detector offerings. But HERE, in the USA, I don't consider this to be a "growing interest" hobby. As it is, I see more than one detector manufacturer struggling the past two or three years.

Quote
Cal_cobra
Would be killer if they did some form of DST implementation on the re-released T2. I have no idea who would buy an Omega 8500 when you could buy a new T2 for $400, unless the 8500 is that much better (it may well be).

Brian, I like to compare new detectors based on their MSRP rather than a discounter's price, just to keep it fair based upon what the manufacturer thinks they are worth. So here we have the 'Classic' (as in "original') Teknetics T2 being re-introduced at a surprising $499. I haven't used a new T2 upgraded version, but have owned two T2 and have formed my opinions of them and how they worked for me. It was not a completed opinion, however, because I didn't have a 5" DD coil to work in a variety of sites.

I did have a Fisher F75 Ltd last year with the 5" DD coil, but I preferred the old T2's to the F75 as there are some pronounced differences between them. Besides, I like the green color. I'll be headed out in a few days to our campsite for the opening of deer season next Saturday and I'll be taking my new 'Classic' T2 w/Accessory Package along to give that 5" DD coil a good test. There are a few old cabin sites and some barns and ranch structures I am going to work the T2 w/5" DD and compare the performance (mainly in some iron target places) against my Tesoro Bandido II and Makro Racer. I never seemed to have need for the DST refinement.

Now that you kind of know me from meeting at our 'WTHO' earlier this month, then you have an answer to: "I have no idea who would buy an Omega 8500 ....." because I am going to get one.

Why? Because I had two T2's earlier in my detector arsenal at times, and in March of 2010 I bought an Omega 8000 3-coil package. Because of where I lived at the time (Portland, Oregon metro area) I was surrounded by a lot of urban Coin Hunting locations, only getting to dense iron littered sites at a few renovation projects or when I was able to travel away to remote ghost towns and similar challenges. I found the Omega 8000 very comfortable, using the T2 grip design, and lighter than the T2's. Even more impressive was the visual and audio Target ID/Tone ID which seemed to provide me a much better 'lock-on' to targets in the mid-range to deeper than I got from the T2's.

Plus, I have a medium-sized Concentric coil and the small round 5" DD coil, and I didn't have the 5" DD for the T2s' I owned. That made a lot of difference in the trashier, nail infested places I like to seek out. Where I live now is far from a big populated city, and the places I most often go detecting at are similar to the three towns we worked on the 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outing' where dense trash often is the #1 challenge, and iron makes up a big percentage of that junk. Smaller coils rule, an I seldom use visual Target ID. I just want performance from any detector to try and rival any of my Tesoro's and I primarily listen to the audio response.

Reading the manual for the Teknetics Omega 8500 I noted a few new design features that I would welcome, such as adjustable VOLUME by TID segment which is handier than simply adjusting the Volume between Iron and Non-Iron. The coming Omega 8500 has more adjustment features than many might think of unless they take the time to read the manual and sort them out. Honestly, I think many 'average' or 'beginning' level hobbyists are not going to grasp it all and they'll find the 8500 to be confusing.

But with the Volume by Segment, and the five Tone ID options, plus other adjustment features in a detector that is very light weight and in a comfortable physical package, I think they will have a winner. I hope they don't price it too high, but I am ready for it. This model will use both Concentric and Double-D coils and for me that's a plus in its favor. I already have my 5" DD and 8" Concentric ready for its release, and that's plus in my favor. With the new T2 and 5" DD coil I will be able to compare them side-by-side and make a final decision which one provides me the performance I want, and which one, if either, or perhaps both, will stay in my personal arsenal.

Quote
Cal_cobra
I wonder if they'll follow suit with a re-release on the original F75 for $400?

For F75 admirers that might be good, but I don't think so. My guess is that other model releases will work their way in without that.

Quote
Cal_cobra
I'm sure the blow out deal on the T2 is in light of a new flagship Teknetics machine coming out next year.

I think there are a number of reasons possible, and it was the original green T2 that was designed with that physical package and that 11" BiAxial coil Dave J. put together that provided the packaging for the Fisher F75. Kind of makes me wonder if a new "flagship detector" is going to come out under only the Teknetics brand and be there, while the Fisher F75's just sort of sell their way down, or if we'll see a dual-brand top-model release.

Note that the Teknetics G2+ is, circuitry wise, a Fisher F19, but the F19's were released long before they brought out the Teknetics G2+ model. I just wish they would hurry-up the release of the Omega 8500. The Omega 8000 w/5" DD coil will handle the NBPT about like the F19, as long as you're using the 5" DD coil AND if you are using a more methodical, slower-sweep. Let me call it a somewhat 'controlled' sweep speed as they lose performance quickly on some sweep directions if the sweep speed is increased just a little too fast.

The Makro Racer can be a little more forgiving when using its little 'OOR' DD search coil and I found it to still work better than the F19/G2+ with their 5" DD coil. Still none of them, the Racer, the F19, the Omega 8000, with their 5" DD coils mounted, can handle the NBPT as well as my Bandido II, Silver Sabre µMAX, Bandido II µMAX or Eldorado when the iron nails are just barely rejected, or your Tesoro Tejón, when any of them are using a 6" Concentric or 8" Concentric or 8X9 Concentric coil, all of which should be swept slowly and methodically, but the Tesoro's can use a little 'sloppier' sweep speed that is a bit faster than the others and still hit on good targets.

I'm just wondering if maybe they have done anything with the Omega 8500 that might enhance its digital designed performance to more closely match the wonders of the Tesoro analog circuitry?

At least First Texas Products seems to be constantly working on new or improved models. They have three brands, and many models share some similar behavior to a sister brand, and they have a very good design engineer base, a lot of dealer outlets, and are aggressive in this industry. I would say much more than any other USA detector maker. Note, too, that Nokta had their FORS Coin & Relic on the market and selling well. It is a very excellent performing model, and much better balanced with the stock 7X11 DD coil than most could imagine ... until they get one in their hand.

Many dealers are in other countries and they started with only Kellyco here in the US. But look what they did that shocked the consumer market. They took the $999 MSRP FORS CoRe and dropped the MSRP to $699! One heck of a deal for a proven performer. The Makro Racer is a killer deal at the $649 MSRP for it alone, or $849 for the Racer with the Pro Package that includes the small 'OOR' coil, a coil cover, rechargeable batteries and charger, and other things. Now we have the FTP/Teknetics folks offering the proven-performance T2 at $499 and their Accessory Bundle at an MSRP of $149, so a "Package Deal" of only $648 MSRP gets us the Green T2, and their small 5" DD coil, rechargeable batteries and charger, and some very useful accessories.

Is it because they have too many T2's and parts and need to thin them out to bring us a new top-end model? Who knows? It's still a great opportunity at a terrific budget. They have dropped the retail price of the Omega 8000's to help thin those out of inventory and dealer's stock to bring us the Omega 8500, and I am really hoping it will be priced very close to what the Omega 8000's sold for.

Monte

One of the most interesting things about US detector companies vs. The "new" companies overseas is that young engineers are working on metal detector design over there. Here in the US the average age is quite a bit higher I think. One exception to this is First Texas where they have "raised a crop" of young engineers by recruiting engineering graduates of the two universities in the El,Paso region with focused EE programs on embedded electronics. This is due to the business boom on both sides of the border in automotive electronics design and manufacturing. The two schools are UT El Paso and the Instituto Technologico de Chihuahua across the border. I looked up a couple of their engineers on Linkdin and followed the "links" a bit.

I think that this young team led by Carl Moreland their Chief Emgineer and inspired by Dave Johnson their Chief Designer are our best US hope for truly new technology in detecting. Single frequency VLF IB detectors are about at their natural limits.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

scoopjohnb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawrenzo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ZZZZZZZZZ
>
>
> We all know very well by now your ever faithfull
> love of the French Fry served with a helping of
> Turkey.
> Nothing wrong with that!
>
> Minelabs and Fishers have been digging coins from
> fields done to death with French Fries.
> Coins even pre-dating Christ himself.
>
> So for Jezus H Christ,... and the coins and relics
> pre-dating him,... GIVE IT A REST!
> It not a religion,... it's a metal detector.
>
> And keeping in this food related post,... where do
> you think they got the Musterd?

it's a lot like the practice of "medicine",not an "exact" science!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Thanks for your post Monte. I've been so busy the past couple of weeks that I'm way behind on checking the forums.

Although the T2 Classic is a great deal, I'm looking forward to the release of the Omega 8500. It has some very useful features, including some new ones no other machines have that will be very interesting to test in the field.

I suspect it may be a great machine at pulling silver and tokens out of these pits of iron we hunt at the ghost town sites. Hopefully you'll have one in hand for the spring ghost town trip

HH,
Brian