NOKTA FORS GOLD+ --- Field Test

I am now 36 hours into ownership of this new Nokta unit. All tests will be Florida dirt (exceptionally inert..... except for a few areas...... of which I will explicitly indicate). So far........ the unit has passed bench tests and test-garden tests ...... which, in turn, graduates to the real-world. Bulletized..... and in-a-nutshell:

* Packaging very nice.

* Assembly fairly easy.

* Ergonomics quite nice.

* Tall mans rod/pole as 'standard' is very nice.

* Nearly impossible to break coil ear(s). Excellent engineering with the coil nut/bolt assembly. (Don't lose the rubber grommets/washers for the coil!).

* ID's are nearly identical to Fisher T2. ((( Nickel: 60, Clad Dime: 84 )))

* Not conducive for Left-Handed folks, due to main screen placement; yet, once the unit is set up....... this easily becomes a moot point.

* Pinpoint feature unnecessary for 5" coil, 10" elliptical concentric coil & 10" elliptical DD coil..... as audio reporting system is 'tight'. (Commendable).

* Unit poses definite high-freq attributes.

* Low conductors are much more detectable than high conductors.

* Pinnacle Disc setting to (just barely) discriminate common/average nails is a Disc setting of '21' (also just like T2).

* Audio reports vs ID numbers are divorced/separate entities ...... again, identical to T2. (In-field/real-world attribute).

* Canadian (modern) steel coins ID all over the full-range spectrum.

* This 'Prospecting-targeted unit'....... is primarily a relic hunting unit. (More/amplifying info to follow).

* Nearly completely immune to EMI .......... equal to Fisher CZ platform.

* Beach; Grnd Balance cancels wet salt at a setting of 00.20 (again, identical to T2). ((( Common/expected phase-shift. )))

* Major loss in depth on gold whilst @ Salt Ground Balance settings/numbers. ie: Nickel detection goes to 1/2 depth capabilities. (VERY typical/expected resultant for single freq unit).

* A weak (but qualified) micro-jewelry hunter. Unit needs to be in all-metal mode or Boost mode coupled with very low Disc settings to ascertain 'micro-jewelry' status/capabilities. Excessive iron targets real-world/reality dictates a Disc setting of '21' to be usable; yet, with this higher Disc setting.... unit downgrades out/away from 'micro-jewelry' status/capabilities.

* Of all the (4) coils supplied....... the 10" concentric coil lends itself with a slight edge (over all other coils/options) as a slightly better micro-jewelry hunter.

* Boost mode (vs Fast mode) substantially more audibly intelligible.

* In Complex test-garden...... this Fors Gold+ unmasks identical to XP GMP (with both low & high conductors in multi-co-locate with iron). ((( Needs real-world testing/verification... for validity ))).

* Have yet to be able to run Sens on '99'. A bit 'chatty'. I can run Sens of '98' in test-garden. (To the point: This unit allows to 'just barely' overdrive Sens abilities.)

* 5" coil poses a fairly large loss in depth performance.

* 10" elliptical concentric coil unmasks approx 11% better than the 10" elliptical DD coil. 10" elliptical coil also unmasks better than 5" DD coil. (Welcomed partial paradox).

* The DD coil(s) indeed present a measurably shorter audio-duration 'blip' over given targets (as compared to their concentric counterparts).

* Only "Tone 4" option (which is the monotone option) will unmask! .... as long as the Disc is set at the critical set-point of just barely Disc'ing out small iron.

* Per expectations: Trust the audio...... not the ID..... for unmasking in carpets of nails. The ID numbers 'might' present a distant secondary clue.

NOW........................ it's time for me to take this unit out into the real world.... for REAL/VALID/MEANINGFUL/APPLICABLE data collection. The worlds top unmasker is the XP GMP..... so I will compare to this unit.

More to follow.

The performance with the concentric coil--- interesting.
Will be following....

* This 'Prospecting-targeted unit'....... is primarily a relic hunting unit. (More/amplifying info to follow).

You aint lying there Tom!

its a Purest Relic Hunter ...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Realise it's not the intended use, but if you could please share any info on how it responds to higher conductors such as a dime at depth.

Thanks Tom for sharing this valuable preliminary information. The 10" elliptical concentric unmasking is most interesting to me, since the bulk of my recent prospecting activity has involved working high-density iron trash sites in pursuit of native silver specimens.

It is shocking to learn and appreciate the significance of iron masking with regard to valuable, large multi-pound silver that has been fully masked from either detection or proper target ID. Hence we remove all detectable nail-size and larger iron from specific sites as a means to ensure that all detectable silver can be recovered. You have to see it to believe the number of high value targets that would otherwise be overlooked.

One does wonder why the 10” elliptical concentric should surpass the 10” elliptical DD’s unmasking ability… your thoughts on this subject would be most welcome and appreciated.

Jim.

Jim, this is just a thought as I have no where near the experience in testing as Tom and some of the others. So this is just to see if I'm on the right track more than anything else.

Could it be with the DD seeing, say the 2-3" width by 10" length from tip to tip it's not able to punch through the iron to pick up the good target vs the concentric coil having the wider cone and being able to see or pick up around the masking target that this is why it does better in that case. Hope that makes sense.

Like I said this is just a thought and I'm sure Tom will be able to give us the right answers. Mine is just to see if I'm even in the right frame of thought....could and may be sadly off though.

Quote

NASA-Tom wrote:

* 10" elliptical concentric coil unmasks approx 11% better than the 10" elliptical DD coil. 10" elliptical coil also unmasks better than 5" DD coil. (Welcomed partial paradox).

* Only "Tone 4" option (which is the monotone option) will unmask! .... as long as the Disc is set at the critical set-point of just barely Disc'ing out small iron.

That's good to know -

I just got my Fors Gold+ too and have only took it out in field for about 1.5 hrs so far

I'll have to do some testing in the above manner

only problem I have is = I didn't get the 5x10" concentric in my package - they don't offer it that way yet on the retail market and I don't see anywhere to buy the coil separately either

Thanks for sharing Tom,

Looking forward to the next informative test report, real coil to the ground testing out in areas you hunt.

Thanks again!
Paul

I'd be interested in how deep the big coil goes in your inert dirt Tom as my dirt is similar.

I went out the other day with the Gold + and it really is a sweet machine..... Went to a park for a spot of coin shooting and pulled about 9 coins from heavy trash in around hour and half.

Video here if anyone wants to see..... [youtu.be]

Nice information Tom and looking forward to more of your findings as your hours progress with the Gold +

Also be nice in the end to hear how you think it stacks up to the goldmaxx power.

There are still savvy old timers that prefer concentrics over DD coils.

I like a concentric on a Tejon For sure.especially in thick iron....And thats a really high gain unit.

The elliptical concentric on the Plus is a sweet coil for taming falsing in thick iron yet still being sleuthy.

I hope the Racer Gold has SOME Concentrics!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like a concentric on a Tejon For sure.especially
> in thick iron....And thats a really high gain
> unit.
>
> The elliptical concentric on the Plus is a sweet
> coil for taming falsing in thick iron yet still
> being sleuthy.
>
> I hope the Racer Gold has SOME Concentrics!!
>
> Keith

I enjoyed that coil also Keith...... In a little vid I did against the F75 standard coil.... you can clearly see the benefits of the concentric coil..... Video here of the little comparison [youtu.be]

Nice vid Ziggy - cheers Vincent

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope the Racer Gold has SOME Concentrics!!
>
> Keith

It has a 10" x 5" concentric available.

As always, nice vid ziggy

Conducted a 13 hour real-world field-test yesterday with Nokta Fors Gold +. I deliberately selected severely difficult sites for a multitude of reasons. All sites had severe iron contamination. A couple of sites were simply carpets of nails. Two other sites were railroad spurs...... hunting in/at/amongst RR tracks/ties/spikes from multiple train lines. Thus far, there are only a few detectors that can present (only) a few percent of success in any/all of these sites. Experiences/observations/results as follows:

* This is not a 3-tone unit; subsequently, does not lend itself as a good 'coins' hunter...... especially in modern trash locations. Coin hunting can be performed; yet, with tedious/low-efficiency (eyes constantly looking at VDI) requirements. Disc can help aid in this capacity.

* In the real world..... the depth capabilities (with 10" concentric) is very similar to XP GMP with stock 9" coil. This Fors Gold Plus (FGP) is not a 'deep' unit; yet, "effective depth" is tremendous between targets.

* One hunted site had iron that was exceptionally decomposed; thus, allowing for a Disc '20' setting...... with subsequent better unmasking capabilities. All other sites required a Disc '21' setting.
(Of note: There is a completely different learning-curve between a Disc setting of '20' vs a Disc setting of '21').

* FGP is fairly "ID confident".

* FGP is exceptionally similar to XP GMP in many, many respects .... when the GMP is dropped down to 2-tone mode.

* FGP will not hunt behind GMP. (More to follow).

* Negative hot rocks can be Disc'd out and/or mitigated. Positive hot rocks ID as 'foil'...... with ID's in the 40's.

* Audio reporting is quite 'zip-zip'...... akin to Gold Bug-2 and other gold units. Accentuated even more whilst in FST fast mode.

* FGP does not retain last settings if you turn the unit off.

* If ferrous targets are on the same plane as non-ferrous targets...... the FSP will find the non-ferrous targets...... as long as the iron masking culprit is not too large.
* If ferrous targets are ABOVE the non-ferrous/conductive target-of-interest....... what dictates acquisition is the mass & orientation of the inhibiting (masking) culprit.... the size/mass of the intended target...... and the distance between the two.

* The first (closest) 50% of the detection range of the FGP is a variable pitch VCO activated audio report. The last 50% of the detection range (field)...... presents no VCO and no modulated audio report (delineation/differentiation).

* Recommend to nearly ignore the VDI whilst hunting in carpets of nails/high iron concentrate areas.

* Higher Sens settings in carpets does lend to slightly better (more intelligible) audio reports/unmasking abilities.

* Pistol grip can only be held by three fingers. Index/trigger finger must be free-standing; otherwise, pinpoint button is invoked. This can fatigue the hand on long hunts.

* GMP mid-tone covers foil, nickel, most pull-tabs. GMP high-tone great for 'old-coins' & coins. FGP VDI is quite beneficial for differentiating between foil, nickel, pull-tab items.

-----------------------

So far, I have not talked about depth capabilities (with exacting numbers) for a reason. This unit is not a deep seeking unit...... so the numbers may look dismal ................... which can (incorrectly) be misleading. First, the 10" coil is quite small. Even though it is 10" (which...... otherwise..... may 'sound' fairly large) it is elliptical in shape .... and makes a very small footprint, , , , both physically AND electromagnetically. This lends itself to limited overall depth. Also....... I seek to find 'effective depth'......... and not just simply overall 'depth'. The "niche". Where this unit shines is..... in heavily trashed out (high volume human activity) sites whereby..... 'see-thru' and/or enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics are paramount. So..... the 10" small coil (wills to reason).... to ascertain small depths. (((( Hold the small FGP 10" coil up against the F75's 11" coil. Even though there is only a 'perceived' 1" difference; you will immediately see a huge size difference.......... with subsequent performance & depth difference )))). If I were to put the 10" elliptical F70 coil on the F75....... I speculate the performance would be much better matched.

I ended up spending the bulk of my time on specific, targeted intent. I performed minimal head-to-head comparisons to the GMP (thus far.... but not for long).................. as I wanted my learning-curve to pique properly/maturely. With confidence, I can say... that the FGP will not hunt behind the GMP; yet, it can (most certainly) hunt in front of it. Now that I am very comfortable with the FGP...... I will commence head-to-head with GMP.... when proper time permits. I'll report my findings (as to be expected). I also speculate that the FGP vs GMP..... in regards to unmasking..... will be similar..... with only a few percent going to one or the other unit...... depending upon physics scenario.

I want to impart/convey more data on the divorced Disc vs Audio vs VDI. Yes...... all three are independent of one/another. With a Disc of say '10'..... you may detect a rusted nail that VDI ID's as '26'. You then adjust Disc to.... say..... '18'..... and the rusted '26' nail is no longer producing an audio response to the nail. AND (now)..... you may or may not generate a VDI ID of the nail as you sweep over it..... now that the audio has Disc'd out the nail. This is important for you to know...... especially if you are seeking to successfully unmask a site that is no longer producing any more non-Fe targets in carpets of nails/iron. The F75, F70, T2 also have divorced Disc vs Audio vs VDI accolades.

So far, I am quite impressed with this Fors Gold + (FGP). I have yet to try the 5" coil or the 10" elliptical DD coil. I also have the large coil..... still in the box. Much, much more testing to perform.

((( More to follow....... out of time. )))

Some good imfo.

I may be asking this question too soon.

You have commented previously Tom, on how the Gmp and Deus violate some laws of physics however slight.

Does this unit ????

Tom the Plus does retain last settings...

on the main screen press and hold the up or down button for 4 seconds or so...

The menu screen will apear.. dont let go...press the negative button while still holding the up or down button down ..please wait will display on the screen .. then let go..

Now turn off machine and turn back on and last setting and even mode used will be in service..

To restore to factory defaults do the same but use the + button isnted fo the negative button in procedure..

I have mine dialed in hot on startup LOL!!

Ground grab and go basically for me..

good info...Wish you had some mineral to watch the machien light Up the dirt in Boost..


Ive pulled stuff out of iron for the last 3 weeks with amazing success...again some eerie results...Works great undr powerlines...

Ive hit a spot where I dug my C.S.A. belt buckle that of course Ive worked to death ..its under a high line..was never able to use the Racer or CoRe in there.DEUS and DTVG and Tejon and MXT and F19 mostly HF rigs to combat the EMI.. ..this is like a Godsend for that site..no emi..and targets just light up..!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

tnss = Yes..... but to what extent, I'm still investigating/discovering/experimenting...... in the real world. I have not performed 'controlled environment' validated testing as of yet. . . . . but is on my high-priority list of validation/verification.

Keith........... and I know I have read that in the owners/operators manual...... and have yet to employ. Will certainly perform this in the field next time..... so as to save time (via saving settings)...... especially when I commence full-blown head-to-head testing.
I do indeed have a couple of areas with bad dirt.......... where by, only the XP Deus and GMP can (did) succeed. Surprisingly (unexpectedly) the CTX-3030 failed. Same failure with the multi-freq CZ, AT-Pro, MXT and several others. The location is a 1849 - 1858 3rd Seminole Indian war site.... with a 6-hour (round trip) vested expense.

tnss = This brings me back to your question/statement. IF (I feel) the FGP warrants bad dirt testing ...... due to (potentially unsuspectingly) positive resultant with bad dirt.............. AFTER i do some more 'irrefutable' head-to-head validation(s) with positive findings........ I will most certainly subject this unit to the time/resources/concerted-effort evolution...... to bad dirt.

* "Masking" is a laws-of-physics principality that occurs in a 3-dimensional dirt world....... underground. Nokta calls 'Discrimination' on their unit as: "Masking". This is a bit misleading. It sounds funny/awkward if I were to say: Set your Masking to '21' for best results.

So even though this is a gold machine and the freq is at about 15 Khz like any machine we are testing it as a relic machine....I think the new racer gold has higher freq 56 kHz? How will that do for relics or would it be just gold? And the impact soon to be released that could be the ticket a machine most of us want but don't know much about it yet>

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

NasaTom, this is some very useful info and your efforts are VERY MUCH appreciated. I have a few areas where small brass cuff buttons are present (I'm fairly positive) and yet they are masked. The FGP is on my Christmas list as an addition to my Racer. Again, thank you for your efforts! Kevin

Lawrenzo..... the FGP is 19-Khz. My concern for 40-Khz and/or 56-Khz........ is......... these much higher freqs may fully/easily detect #8 and #9 shotgun bird shot. TOO many extremely tiny non-ferrous targets....... making the unit impractical for general purpose (and site specific) relic hunting. Now........ for a extreme condition of say..... a Archaeological Phase-2 site recovery....... (whereby every micro-target is critical) it would be beneficial. These higher freq's would also lend nicely to the primary 'prospecting' target of tiny gold nuggets/flakes. The byproduct would also double as a spectacular micro-jewelry hunter for dry sand applications. (A type/category of detecting that I still feel is virtually undiscovered/untapped. "Proper" education required!).

Kevin..... the FGP & Racer may be your ticket to success/targeted-intent. Also, (to answer your question)..... yes, I still do one-on-one training and phone consultation.

deadlift....... noticeably lower response/signal-strength to dimes......vs...... nickels. And it shows (quite evident) in dirt-depth tests.

* "Some" of the justification/rationale behind concentric coil having somewhat better resultant on unmasking is: A concentric coil generates a electromagnetic eddy-current based footprint envelope that emulates a doughnut (outwardly) shape...................... vs ...................... a DD coil more-so generates a knife-like (straight down) footprint whereby..... a piece of interfering iron in direct line-of-sight (on top of) intended target ...will produce TOO much electromagnetic energy imposed on the iron (and) in addition to 'blocking' the electromagnetic energy from ever reaching the intended target. A DD coil will provide much better 'adjacent' target separation characteristics; yet, a concentric coil will not put sooo much 'focused energy' into a narrow beam of energy...... thereby, authorizing some electromagnetic wrap-around. (NOT to be confused with phase-shift wrap-around!). Both coils have attributes/detriments (pro's/con's).
This is 'one' reason.
I still feel the GMP unmasks NOT due to any form of a lightning-fast microprocessor (of which it is not); yet/rather....... due to a different form of electronic format. The FGP may also present similar accolades; yet, I need more scientific verification and validation to turn 'theory' (speculation) into 'proof'. Variables removed/controlled environment testing to ensue.
The GMP is DD coil equipped; yet, defies a basic principle of physics whereby/thus circumventing DD coil 'focused-beam' electromagnetic footprint properties (of putting too much energy on the closest masking culprit)...... and allowing 'some' see-thru to the intended non-ferrous target below (or beside) the ferrous target(s). Also........ the GMP electronically expresses a much higher interest in reporting NON-ferrous items..... even over (closely and/or directly masking) ferrous items. Another physics-defying paradox. AND...... the GMP (of 18-Khz) is more resonant (tuned) for iron/ferrous ...... vs ...... non-ferrous/conductive metals. . . . . . . . . posing another defying paradox. FGP might be the same. I'm trying to find out......... so as to save what limited time I (we) have. Efficiency maximization.

Tom I'll second the dime vs nickel scenario. I recovered a Merc this past Saturday from a melee of dirt and trash at a just torn down house site and it was almost a surface discovery, about an inch deep in the mix. After digging a wheat penny shortly there after on the outer bounds of the bad mix of trash I inserted the Merc in the side of the nicely dug metal free hole the recovery was made from. Started some 7 inches down and no response and gradually brought the Merc closer to the surface inserting in the side until I received a response. Started getting a response, not anything I would stop swinging for at approx 6 inches. Around 5 inches with the concentric coil just right over the Merc it would give a report. Slightly closer to the coil and it was dead on unmisakable dig me. Depth not being the forte of the unit, the machine will pull out of trash very very good.

Thanks for now I'll hunt with the racer and the deus and see what the im[act brings to the table..

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

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If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thanks Tom, will be following.

* I have (now) recovered over 1000 nails with the FGP. This is mandatory/deliberate.... and a critical part of the learning-curve tuition. Now........... with specifically the FGP........... this tuition affords a pique skill-set whereby allowing me to enter into a carpet of nails and.............. with confidence............. have the skill-set/capabilities to delineate between nails..... and delineate between nail/non-ferrous co-locate scenario. I have been practicing this procedure for over 44 years...... and could write a book about the eye-opening experiences that ensue whilst performing such function. I 'paid the price'. Now......... I can 'efficiently' save a lot of time on each/every site that is hunted....... seeking to eek out the non-ferrous implements.

* The FGP's performance in heavily iron trashed-out sites is indeed stunning. Not many detectors survive/perform in the sites that I have subjected the FGP to. Right now........ I can (only) say that the FGP is in the top 10% of the 'relic hunting' units on the market. The % may be much better ((and I'll find out))....... but, for now...... I can comfortably/conservatively rate the unit in the top 10%.

* I have the large 16" DD coil....... and have yet to test it.

To be continued.......

Wow that's some mad digging there Tom, hat off to you sir for going the full mile on testing, blooming hell a 1000 nails.

If they are square nails I'll take them

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Yes Tom It is Amazing in iron!!

What funny it sort of really came in unoticed by the hunters...

I mentioned to the factory it ought to be called a relic and gold..LOL...

That's the thing about a Good gold unit in the 20Khz range....They make GREAT relic units for iron site unmasking..

I had hoped the 19Khz on the Bleedy Blendy Nokta platform would be a unit to contend with in relic sites..it has not dissapointed..

I find it to be my favorite relic unit in iron to date..

I also find it to lock onto weird shaped non ferrous in iron better than the DEUS..


Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla