Pulse Induction hunters

I took my Deus out yesterday, and after watching Aquachiggers Minelab GTX videos....alot of them...., I set up my Deus on Zero Disc, and two tones which is as close to an All Metal as I can get. Everything rings in at one tone, since the DISC is set at zero. It worked pretty good, I was able to find countless 36 cal balls, 3 of the 69 caliber balls, and a 58 cal Minie ball at decent depths......BUT nothing like he was digging them at!!!! In fact, after watching alot of his vids, I am converted to the Pulse Induction technology. Heck, I was digging everything yesterday. I might as well dig everything with a PI machine.
I have boiled it down to two machines: A Minelab GPX 4500 or a White's TDI. I can acquire a Minelab 4500 at a great price from an individual, and, of course, the White's TDI is cheaper, according to their published prices (which means that I can possibly get it a few hundred dollars cheaper than the published price.
But if I get a White's......will I be SICK that I didn't spend a bit more for the Minelab 4500?? This will be for wooded and pasture sites (cornfields too) where there is not alot of modern day trash and iron signals are far and few between. Also, the PI machine will be used in an old pine tree forest (old cut over and replanted.....about 30 yrs ago) where the pine straw is 4 inches deep and quite compressed. Of course, I can rake the starw away with my foot but the layer of top soil has built up. And I constantly have to keep an eye on ground balance as it changes alot in the pine woods. But I know that I am passing over alot of good targets. I had the GREAT big coil on my Racer last year, and dug an Enfield bullet that was deeper than my pinpointer!!!! I had no way of any other accurate measurement. But i was surprised to find a bullet that deep. I thought that the subsoil woul stop them. But the subsoil (strata....always wanted to use that word on this forum.) is not exactly level and can be deep or shallow, depending on the terrain and old roadbeds, etc etc etc etc etc. I know that I will have to learn the difference between junk and bullets, buttons. But I have to do that with my current set ups. Am I on the right path????? The ML GPX4500 versus the White's TDI???? Thank you.......Kevin

If EMI is not a factor and money is not a problem then I would go with the GPX 4500. Too rich for my blood though as I have the TDI and love it. The more mineralized your soil is the better the pulse machines advantage over the VLF machine. You really should own at least one of each type. Digging iron can get very frustrating at times....Stuart

I haven't had the TDI very long but it is a beast and it may sound wimpy, but I have watched guys dig 18 to 24 inch nickels at the beach with a GPX and its not worth it. The TDI is plenty deep for me. It is also the best balanced unit I've seen. At 5 pounds, I'd swear it is half that weight and with the T Foot 18 inch coil is really feels lighter than the Racer with the 11 inch on! PS the Reg mods are way worth it too.
Just my opinion

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Might want to take a look at the Garrett ATX. I've read from some knowledgeable people that "The ATX has a superior ground balance system that provides for better depth over a wide range of target types and sizes than the TDI".

It costs a little more than the TDI but a lot less than a GPX.

HH
John

I had an ATX and I have a TDI. It is vastly heavier than the TDI, has a limited and expensive range of available accessory coils, and mine was in no way deeper than my TDI.

Others may have had different experiences with it.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

If you are after bullets and higher conductive items, the GPX will be easier to learn the sounds on. On the TDI it takes some getting used to on the high conductors, because iron falls into that area as well, and it takes a good ear to tell the difference between a minie ball and a square nail. The GPX is just a beast of a machine. The TDI loves low conductors. It is a button digging machine. Both are good machines. I wouldn't be caught without one or the other in bad soil. My preference is highly towards the GPX though.

Kevin, the Deus does have all metal--- different than running disc at 0 in disc, deeper too.

I've read several times that the earlier/lesser Minelab PI's are almost as good as the 4500 etc top-end machines, only true nugget-hunters would appreciate the differences. Your mild dirt and relic-hunting needs would likely be satisfied with them, and they are cheaper, of course.
See here, for example:
[www.detectorprospector.com]

Steve's site is worth a read.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2016 12:30AM by Pimento.

P.S. i also had a very sound SD2100 - an earlier ML PI machine which many feel has - for absolute depth - equal capability to the later GPX models. It was A tiny but deeper than the TDI, but not much - amd this was with the same coils on each detector.

Again - "your mileage may vary"

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I had the GP Extreme which is also an earlier version of the GP/GPX series. Having used the newer models and then going to the GP Extreme, I could see areas they had improved on them from the GP to the GPX. There are websites that show the differences between each of the models...I think Steve H's page due this as well. The main things about the older GPs vs the newer GPXs to keep in mind:

1. The older GP series do not have a built in amp in the battery like the newer ones do. What you will run into is that only certain headphones work good with it...and even then, you will probably need an aftermarket booster to get good audio. They aren't cheap either. You can still buy new batteries for the GPs but beware they aren't that cheap, and you never know about the life of the used batteries...especially since many are nearing 15 years old now.

2. The older units were more analog in settings, with all toggle switches controlling all settings. They also do not have the push button ground balance on the handle like the newer ones do. This was quite an aggrevation to me...having to switch the toggle switch on the back of the machine...pump the coil to balance...then reflip the switch. The new ones...just press the green button on the handle...pump coil...done. The newer ones are a mix of toggle switches and digital menu settings that you control with a turn knob. There are a lot more settings and such in the newer ones.

3. They have worked a great deal in EMI reduction on the older vs newer machines. On my GP Extreme, it was super sensitive to EMI. One site in particular had an electric fence for cattle. I could actually hear the pulsing of the fence through my headphones; the detector was picking it up. It was useless there within 50 yards of that fence. I came back later with the GPX and didn't have any issues with the fence until I was probably 5 or so yards from it. I found quite a few relics in that field that day with the GPX too.

With that said...the difference between a GPX 4500 and 5000 is so minute (for a relic hunter) that either one would be splitting hairs as to find a difference.

I have not ran a GP3500 or 4000 so I don't know how they compare to the others. I do know that the GP Extremes were hit and miss on having a good one or bad one. This is apparently how the GP3000/3500 came to be about.

I think the future is nearing when we will have the best of each machine in one machine. I have been waiting for a hybird to start a new wave of flagships but so far if you do dig almost everything and you know your detector well enough and it sees the target your finds will increases as mine have...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Cant answer your question, but Steve H. Is selling a nice TDI with 3 coils and warranty for 699 .

deathray Wrote:
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> Cant answer your question, but Steve H. Is selling
> a nice TDI with 3 coils and warranty for 699 .

I think that's actually a White's Sierra Pulse Pro With Three Coils, not a TDI.

Very similar designs, but the SPP has no Pulse Delay adjustment, nor the Hi/Low conductivity modes.

(Still a great price, though.)

mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2016 04:31AM by Mike in CO.

Yeah your right Mike...Thanks for catching that.

I have used the analog and digital Minelab pulse machines extensively for nugget hunting. I also own a TDI. The Minelabs achieve much greater depth than the TDI. The major advantage of the TDI is the ability to skew the ground balance which changes the tone on certain targets/iron thereby enabling you to discriminate to a certain degree. The Minelabs are able to use a rudimentary form of discrimination by employing the use of DD coils. This discrimination works well for shallow iron but is limited to about 3" depth +/-.
With the introduction of Minelabs latest pulse detectors the SDC 2300 and the GPZ 7000 the resale market for used Minelabs has become flooded with machines driving the price down considerably.With the lower pricing currently available on used machines I would only consider buying a GP 3500 ( analog machine which does have the green GB button on the handle) or a GPX (4000,4500,5000). As Daniel has mentioned the digital machines do much better handling EMI. An additional advantage the GPX's possess is expanded ground handling capability through the use of various soil timings.
If I was only looking for coins in a park like setting I would likely use my TDI. If relic hunting and in need of maximum penetration in any soil I am grabbing my GPX.
HH,
Merton

True all metal on the Deus is only available by using the GOLD FIELD program have a try with that and see what depth you get before buying a PI

its worth it alone just for the audio modulation, let alone the depth.
Superior to the TDI in many ways. ( I have owned both, including three TDI's).
MUCH easier to tell lead from iron than the TDI.

The ATX is a good machine too, but HEAVY.
Like Daniel said....in a relic hunting setting you'd be hard pressed to do better than a 4500. I have a 4800......but a lot of guys use the 45 and do very very very well with them.
On thing you will learn right away is that the GPX will not simply report a high or low tone. The pitch will be related to the conductivity, and it will try to report two different tones in some cases, depending in the target. Lots of confederate buttons will "turkey gobble" due to the different composition of the back VS the front.
Go for the GPX. You will not be disappointed.

I have 2 minelabs and 2 TDI's---I went to the TDI's because I could not stand to be wrapped up in wires---I switch hands as I hunt and this is almost impossible with the ML's. Both have hit minie' balls over a foot deep.

I'm with Streak! The TDI is ok but it isn't in the same league as the 4500. If you can swing it theres no comparison.

First, I appreciate everyone's replies. You have given me a mound of food for thought. I can get the GPX4500 brand new for a good price. Below 2000 bux.
Tennessee Sharpshooter, yes, the GoldField program on the Deus is an All Metal w/ threshold. I tried it on my deepest bullets and it easily sounded off on them (the threshold wavered distinctly.......I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
My main concern is that the dirt where I hunt is only moderately mineralized. But there are patches of bad mineralization. Alot of the bullets, I have a strong feeling, have fallen below the depth of a VLF machine. I only have a Deus (9" coil) and a Racer. And the All Metal on the Racer is nowhere near as stable (threshold-wise) as an F-75.
Maybe what I need is just a real deep All Metal mode. But MAN! I have been having dreams of getting this GPX4500 and I even went and talked to the bank today. They said they'd let me have the cash. (Plus....I'll further build my credit.....if that stuff is even relevant anymore in today's changing financial climate). Whew......that was a brain-drain. LOL

If you aren't going to buy that 4500 for that price...let me know where it is and I will buy it!! As a courtesy for a finders reward, I will send it over to you and let you give it a whirl. I need one for the March DIV hunt.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you aren't going to buy that 4500 for that
> price...let me know where it is and I will buy
> it!! As a courtesy for a finders reward, I will
> send it over to you and let you give it a whirl.
> I need one for the March DIV hunt.


Okie Doke.

Hey Kevin,
If you want to try a gp extreme cheap,let me know by pm. I haven't used mine since summer....your thread made me realize I really dont need it,lol.

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Kevin,
> If you want to try a gp extreme cheap,let me know
> by pm. I haven't used mine since summer....your
> thread made me realize I really dont need it,lol.

Man, I sure appreciate your trust in me to even offer such a awesome chance. Please let me pick your brain. In most of the areas that I hunt, the mineralisation is not that bad. It is NOTHING like the mineralisation in Keith Southern or DanielTN's neck of the woods. I have two questions: Are PI machines ONLY useful to relic hunters (I don't hunt gold) with a mineralized soil problem? Would I benefit from purchasing a Pulse Induction machine versus my Deus and Racer? I AM willing to listen hard to tones etc etc. In fact, after watching Aquachigger, DanielTN, and ALOT of other Youtube vids of people actually operating their GPX machines and listening to the tones closely and then watching them dig the targets, I already feel as if I have started my learning curve.
Here is my purpose of getting a GPX4500: To dig the deeper targets in hunted out areas where the targets have sunk past the point of detection. To be able to hunt in the summer when the ground is very dry and my VLF's seem to lose all depth. And Deathray, what made you decide that you don't need yours? (Please understand that I am only asking these questions so that I can make an informed decision) I appreciate all feedback.
And I want to thank you again, Deathray, for your very generous offer.

Your best to ask Daniel ...I've only used it for gold,in bad soil. Daniel had the same detector before. I know he would prefer the gpx5000...but you can save a bunch,see if its for you,if not, sell it and get your money back. I will sell it to you for $600 plus actual shipping.

Thanks guys. I am gonna go with the GPX4500. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I just gotta know what Pulse Induction is about. Plus, one day, maybe, if I am lucky, I might get to hunt in Virginia, where the soil is red and water is pure.

Kevin,

The dream is to go deeper; yet, if you have never had a dedicated hunt with a PI........ the lack of Discrimination can be a show-stopper/eye-opener. I strongly suggest to borrow/try a PI....... hunt an entire day with it....... then make a command decision if it is for you.

For my part, the question of PI vs VLF, comes down to a person's hunt philosophy. Your personality will dictate your equipment choice more than any technological differences. This is where I part with Tom D. Tom and I have had several discussions regarding this subject and his overarching motivation is hunting efficiency. He emphasizes repeatedly the importance of maximum return for the time expended. From his perspective, PI becomes a terrible waste of time except in a narrow range of circumstances when PI is the only practical technology to utilize.

On the other hand, my personality is such that while I certainly appreciate time efficiency in my business, when hunting for buried objects, I can't for the life of me bear to walk away from a known buried object. Even if I'm relatively certain that it's probably a worthless bottle cap, I just have to dig.

I own a Garrett Infinium, and an XP GMP. My experience thus far with the XP has been that my finds are all fairly shallow down to a maximum of about 7 inches. I may be able to drive the signal deeper as I become more experienced, but my Infinium in turn routinely tones items down to 17 inches. Of course, I have to dig everything. Practically the Infinium is a non-discriminating detector, at least for me. Steve H seems to have mastered it's discriminating abilities, but I have not, and I'm not sure that I want to. I just have to dig.

Obviously, I can't use it at public parks and property where excessive digging is limited, but where I have no such limitations, I happily excavate til my heart's content.

Tom D really is partly to blame for my penchant for digging, after all, he did write those wonderful articles about masking. So now, not only do I dig everything, I go back over each area I dig looking for more. A few weeks ago I dug a zipper pull at 8", re-scanned and found a 12 gram, 18k gold and platinum ring about 3" deeper. I'm thoroughly hooked on digging.

So, if you love to dig, buy a PI. But you really must love to dig.

My experience with VLF machines is up there with the best. My experience with PI's is nil. Two questions:

With a PI, is iron falsing still a problem and if so, is it more of less than a VLF?

I made a sweet deal to get an Infinium. Am I able to reduce the amount of iron I will dig with the iron check feature vs a PI without it?

Thanx!

Since I got mentioned a couple times (thanks guys!) I will toss in my two cents and make it easy at that. ATX vs TDI if you need waterproof get the ATX, if not TDI. The Minelabs, simply buy the best you can afford. In other words, decide how much you want to spend, then buy the latest model you can find for that amount. However, since the old lead cell batteries age in a poor way, I tend to recommend sticking with any model GPX if possible due to the vastly improved Li-Ion battery system. Older Minelabs especially the SD models may be very hard to service if you have an issue.

PI vs VLF boils down to VLFs running out of steam in a given location when you know good finds remain. Diggin In Virginia (DIV) is a beautiful example. VLF did great early on when finds were easy, now it is nearly all people using PI. Nugget detecting is the same - VLF is great until it is not. Same with beaches. When VLF stops making finds, you either go PI or go elsewhere.

Just lowered the price on the previously mentioned White's SPP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2016 09:09PM by Steve Herschbach.